Pre-Rinnegan Tobi vs Pre-Rinnegan Madara

[arv993]

Arv good job. Finally TobisPawn will have to say Madara is more powerfull than Tobi hahaha... Unless....

no even i say its a toss up but either madara here gets underrated or overrated. its no cake walk for either tobi or madara. i doubt the latter part of ur statement

 

[TobisPawn]

TobisPawn... Madaras reflexes is way better than Minato's but I will give you that FTG > Susanoo speed. Also Battle experience.. Madara is not Minato or Sasuke which are fodders compared with Madara... You see Madara was gone for a more than 100 years and still he figures what Jutsu/KG Kages are using instantly which is a plus he gets from Battle experience... It Allows the Shinobi to see a lot of ways of defeating an opponent or figuring his style very fast.. And why you give that Fu ant Tortune all the times... They're almost Fodders.. And again you restrict Madara much... Prime EMS Madara had Hashiramas DNA and Kyuubi so lol...

@first bold: Nothing to prove that.

@second bold: Minato was the hero of war. That's a lot of battles.

@third bold: He hasn't identified any KG or Jutsu like that...

@fourth bold: I'm talking about regular EMS Madara. If you play that way, I can give Tobi the Kyuubi too.

 

[Djokovic]

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It clearly shows Tobi needs to materilize after he teleports close to Madara and then he can begin warping him away. Madara who has the strongest Uchiha eyes has enough time to counter this. It is ridiclious if you believe Madara can just simply be warped away. Tobi would have captured all the jinchuuriki without any problem if this was this simple.

 

[arv993]

Itachi saw the lightning coming and had the ability to prepare for a decent amount of time. Madara wont have this opportunity if he gets surprise-attacked.



Tobi absorbed Fu as he got out. And Madara wont even see it coming (Tobi wont say "you're" next) so he'll be gone. Naruto coming in with a Rasengan (with Madara seeing the attack coming) is a lot easier to dodge being near-instantly warped by Tobi, who Madara won't see coming.



Minato was warned of his presence first, something Madara wont be. And FTG is more instant than Susanoo activating, which can again be dodged by Tobi doing what he did with Fu.



Maybe activating MS doesn't take too long, but realizing the situation does. Look at Fu. He was gone before he knew what happened. Same with Torune. Minato was near gone before he was able to FTG, and this is after Tobi waited a little before beginning to warp him. I don't think you understand the part of Madara being surprised. In all scenarios you've posted, the people have seen the attack coming, and still barely protected themselves.



In both of these, the MS users saw the attacks coming. If the same thing happens as with what happened with Torune, they're toast. Tobi warped into Jinton, grabbed Sasuke, and warped out, and Sasuke had almost no time to even react during that. If Madara doesn't even see the attack coming, what makes you think he can instantly use Susanoo's ribs in the exact area Tobi is in? What if Tobi does what he did with Torune?



Susanoo isn't instant if the user doesn't even know to use Susanoo. :sy: Not one person has seen Tobi's warp coming and form a counter other than Minato, who was alerted of his presence and has an instantaneous S/T tech.



Torune and Fu figured out his S/T techs and still got warped instantly. And Madara wont have anything to figure out if he's warped on the first go (which no one but alerted, FTG Minato has dodged). Minato's reflexes and FTG speed > Madara's reflexes and Susanoo's activation speed.

And even if he figures out the S/T techs, in your near-impossible scenario, you're telling me he'll be able to predict will Tobi will warp and hit him with Amaterasu which takes time for the person's eyes to bleed, eyes to focus, and such?

but itachi activated it in a fraction of a second. u didnt mention the fact that all those attacks are a lot faster than tobi coming close to madara and absorbing him. madara's activation is instant dont try to argue against the manga the second he feels the slightest absorption he would activate susanoo and blow tobi away.All ms users have shown that activating ms abilities instantly is no problem

madara has great reflexes he was surprised in the first page i showed cause of nowhere his body was extremely close to rasengan and yet he used sussano in no time. activating sussano is instant where as tobi's warping is fast but not as sussano activation so ur first argument is nullified he can clearly blow tobi away with his sussano

And when he is in sussano where the hell do u think tobi is gonna come to warp since thats the only way for him to win of course inside his sussano and madara is smart enough to attack him with amaterasu ready while tobi tries to sneak up on him

 

[TobisPawn]

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It clearly shows Tobi needs to materilize after he teleports close to Madara and then he can begin warping him away. Madara who has the strongest Uchiha eyes has enough time to counter this. It is ridiclious if you believe Madara can just simply be warped away. Tobi would have captured all the jinchuuriki without any problem if this was this simple.

Tobi needs to materialize, yes. But it'll be the same situation with Fu and Torune. He can sink through the ground and pop up and warp, or warp to Madara and warp. Madara doesn't have FTG like Minato nor will he be aware of Tobi like Fu and Torune.

I think the Jinchuuriki thing can be attributed to plot also. Or else Tobi can warp Naruto when he sleeps or something. :shrug:

but when did itachi activate it in a fraction of a second. and all those attacks are a lot faster than tobi coming close to madara and absorbing him. madara's activation is instant dont try to argue against the managa the second he feels the slightest absorption he would activate susanoo and blow tobi away.All ms users have shown that activating instnatly is no problem/

Again, Tobi can do what he did to Torune to dodge the ribs. The ribs don't pierce the ground or something like that.

madara has great reflexes he was surprised in the first page i showed cause of nowhere his body was extremely close to rasengan and yet he used sussano in no time. activating sussano is instant where as tobi's warping is fast but not as sussano activation so ur first argument is nullified he can clearly blow tobi away with his sussano

Madara still saw the attack coming, even if it was a split second before. That's what makes the difference here. U_U If Madara doesn't see the warp coming, in the time he reacted to Naruto he'll still be surprised with Tobi (see Fu and Torune).

And when he in sussano where the hell do u think tobi is gonna come to warp since thats the only way for him to win of course inside his sussano and madara is smart enough to attack him with amaterasu ready while tobi tries to sneak up on him

There's a loooot of standing space in Susanoo. Tobi can go through the ground like with Torune, or do a surprised attack from behind like Minato and Fu. :/ Madara wont prepare an Amaterasu inside his Susanoo if he has no knowledge on Tobi's S/T techs.

And again, he cant predict where Tobi will appear, nor use Amaterasu (takes time to actually appear) in the time Minato barely FTG'd.

Lol guys, seriously, we'll be debating this forever. I'll probably stop posting soon.

 

[Djokovic]

Tobi needs to materialize, yes. But it'll be the same situation with Fu and Torune. He can sink through the ground and pop up and warp, or warp to Madara and warp. Madara doesn't have FTG like Minato nor will he be aware of Tobi like Fu and Torune.

I think the Jinchuuriki thing can be attributed to plot also. Or else Tobi can warp Naruto when he sleeps or something. :shrug:




Again, Tobi can do what he did to Torune to dodge the ribs. The ribs don't pierce the ground or something like that.



Madara still saw the attack coming, even if it was a split second before. That's what makes the difference here. U_U If Madara doesn't see the warp coming, in the time he reacted to Naruto he'll still be surprised with Tobi (see Fu and Torune).



There's a loooot of standing space in Susanoo. Tobi can go through the ground like with Torune, or do a surprised attack from behind like Minato and Fu. :/ Madara wont prepare an Amaterasu inside his Susanoo if he has no knowledge on Tobi's S/T techs.

And again, he cant predict where Tobi will appear, nor use Amaterasu (takes time to actually appear) in the time Minato barely FTG'd.

How do you plan to warp underneath madara while Susano is active? You can't compare 2 fodders with Uchiha Madara who has the strongest visual powers. You are really underrating Madara here.

 

[arv993]

Tobi needs to materialize, yes. But it'll be the same situation with Fu and Torune. He can sink through the ground and pop up and warp, or warp to Madara and warp. Madara doesn't have FTG like Minato nor will he be aware of Tobi like Fu and Torune.

I think the Jinchuuriki thing can be attributed to plot also. Or else Tobi can warp Naruto when he sleeps or something. :shrug:




Again, Tobi can do what he did to Torune to dodge the ribs. The ribs don't pierce the ground or something like that.



Madara still saw the attack coming, even if it was a split second before. That's what makes the difference here. U_U If Madara doesn't see the warp coming, in the time he reacted to Naruto he'll still be surprised with Tobi (see Fu and Torune).



There's a loooot of standing space in Susanoo. Tobi can go through the ground like with Torune, or do a surprised attack from behind like Minato and Fu. :/ Madara wont prepare an Amaterasu inside his Susanoo if he has no knowledge on Tobi's S/T techs.

And again, he cant predict where Tobi will appear, nor use Amaterasu (takes time to actually appear) in the time Minato barely FTG'd.

he would use susanoo the instant he feels someone is warping him lol and i showed u that sussano activation is instant. so while he is getting absorbed he does nothing sussnao activation time is instant as i have shown u 50 times. and madara sees an attack coming if there is a dude who randomly went into the ground xd what do u think he simply forgets about it.

since tobi would try to absorb him a second time he can anticipate an attack and be ready with amaterasu which is instant at point blank range

 

[TobisPawn]

How do you plan to warp underneath madara while Susano is active? You can't compare 2 fodders with Uchiha Madara who has the strongest visual powers. You are really underrating Madara here.

Susanoo doesn't cover the ground with chakra (as Gaara's sand was able to enter). If its Perfect Susanoo, Tobi can warp in just as Madara can stand in. Visual powers don't help much in the warping situation. And if anything, Tobi is the one underrated here, haha :shrug:

But seriously, we'll keep debating on this. So how bout we hold to our own opinions and stop bickering?

he would use susanoo the instant he feels someone is warping him lol and i showed u that sussano activation is instant. so while he is getting absorbed he does nothing sussnao activation time is instant as i have shown u 50 times. and madara sees an attack coming if there is a dude who randomly went into the ground xd what do u think he simply forgets about it.

and from then on he will anticipate an attack and be ready with amaterasu which is instant at point blank range

What if Madara does a P.Susanoo slash, giving Tobi cover to warp? I've shown you that Madara wont have time to react and activate Susanoo, or he'd have done it against A when he appeared and kicked him away. But I don't think any of us will change our minds, xd

 

[MrLukyso]

Susanoo doesn't cover the ground with chakra (as Gaara's sand was able to enter). If its Perfect Susanoo, Tobi can warp in just as Madara can stand in. Visual powers don't help much in the warping situation. And if anything, Tobi is the one underrated here, haha :shrug:

But seriously, we'll keep debating on this. So how bout we hold to our own opinions and stop bickering?

Yes because Madara's Susanoo's weren't running around with feets !

 

[arv993]

Susanoo doesn't cover the ground with chakra (as Gaara's sand was able to enter). If its Perfect Susanoo, Tobi can warp in just as Madara can stand in. Visual powers don't help much in the warping situation. And if anything, Tobi is the one underrated here, haha :shrug:

But seriously, we'll keep debating on this. So how bout we hold to our own opinions and stop bickering?




What if Madara does a P.Susanoo slash, giving Tobi cover to warp? I've shown you that Madara wont have time to react and activate Susanoo, or he'd have done it against A when he appeared and kicked him away. But I don't think any of us will change our minds, xd

and tobi actually absorbs a person when his body is outside of the ground. foo was absorbed when he was outside of the ground so sussano activation would push him back

when A popped out of nowhere madara has no idea they even existed wherever he was but with tobi he clearly sees him at the beginning of the fight. and madara still blocked it showing u his reaction is fast. not only that tobi's absorption is fast but not that fast especially compared to susanoo activation feats. The instant madara feels like gets warped he will use susanoo to blow his opponent back.

 

[TobisPawn]

Yes because Madara's Susanoo's weren't running around with feets !

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I don't think Madara stands in the feet, though (does he?)

 

[MrLukyso]

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I don't think Madara stands in the feet, though (does he?)

Are you blind ? You see the ground under Susanoo ?... And as you can see in the same page there are Susanoo clones with feets so peace. He does and his Susanoo DOES NOT have a underground weakness I will repeat Madara is no Sasuke or Itachi..

 

[TobisPawn]

Are you blind ? You see the ground under Susanoo ?... And as you can see in the same page there are Susanoo clones with feets so peace. He does and his Susanoo DOES NOT have a underground weakness I will repeat Madara is no Sasuke or Itachi..

Tobi can warp inside Susanoo and behind Madara...and it also depends on if Madara has the legged Susanoo out before Tobi makes his move.

 

[arv993]

Tobi can warp inside Susanoo and behind Madara...and it also depends on if Madara has the legged Susanoo out before Tobi makes his move.

warping inside his sussano is foolish. madara can see someone in a sussano who is warping inside of it. he has to warp inside first that itself makes him tangible second he has to then warp him which also makes him solid. more than enough time to amaterasu him.

 

[TobisPawn]

warping inside his sussano is foolish. madara can see someone in a sussano who is warping inside of it. he has to warp inside first that itself makes him tangible second he has to then warp him which also makes him solid. more than enough time to amaterasu him.

Tobi's shown himself to be able to warp pretty fast (Onoki's Jinton) so I don't think Madara would realize so easily

 

[arv993]

Tobi's shown himself to be able to warp pretty fast (Onoki's Jinton) so I don't think Madara would realize so easily

he will as the teleportation jutsu makes a noise and also if tobi teleports during the battle where would he go other than attacking madara. madara will definitely be cautious so that wont work

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notice the sfx

 

[Djokovic]

Madara stomps here is why.

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[ThEpRoMiSeDlAnD]

Madara that based god susanoo is to much for anyone

 

[Kira was Righteous]

He doesn't have to fly...he can just warp into it...its not a hard concept to grasp.

Pain was the strongest in terms of raw power, but Tobi is the hardest to kill/defeat.

No Pain was the strongest meaning the guy who would kill everyone and thats why hes the strongest or it would of said most powerful...

I cant see Madara being sucked up when hes floating on something made out of his own chakra.

 

[MrLukyso]

No Pain was the strongest meaning the guy who would kill everyone and thats why hes the strongest or it would of said most powerful...

I cant see Madara being sucked up when hes floating on something made out of his own chakra.

Pain was the strongest when Tobi had only base Sharingan. With Madara's eyes Tobi is much more stronger than Nagato.

At any point it is already clear tha Tobis warping has much weaknesses... Madara takes this and stop debating this... You're doing it like forever.