Technically Kurama Isn't The Strongest Tailed Beast!

[iamdsixth]

For those who CBB to read - Read the Bold

Now as we all know, realistically the true strength of a tailed beast and his Jinchuuriki is not determined by the actual strength of the tailed beast, it is a combination of both of their abilities and their choice to work together that allows them to become powerful.

This removes the factor of the current fight during the war - as all tailed beasts (At least up until Edo was Released) have a Jinchuuriki to work with.

Now that is clarified we can begin to talk about the chakra available to the tailed beasts and what they really are.
I recently read a thread by @Blaze Release Wherein he determines that the tailed beasts are merely forms of spiritual energy - and do not have a physical body.

After understanding this theory, it is important to acknowledge that generally, the power of each tailed beast BY THEMSELVES (With no Jinchuuriki) is determined by the amount of tails each beast has.
This is further supported by the 8 Tails comment about the 9 tails - that the power of a Tailed beast is not determined only by the amount of tails but by the ability to work with their host. This informs us that Kurama is not working with his host at the time - he is weaker than other tailed beasts that do.
Therefore Kurama's Arrogance causes him to be weak (Alone)

In addition, the most important factor to acknowledge about Kurama's power is that his power was cut in half.
During the battle with the 4th Hokage (Minato), the 4th uses the Reaper Death Seal to seal half of the 9 Tails Chakra - evidently causing him to become halved in size.
The other half of this chakra was then sealed within Naruto - and remained with him for the rest of his life.

Now, to my knowledge, the other tailed beasts did not have any of their chakra sealed or removed from existence through being sealed - only the 9 tails lost any of his original chakra - which was sealed - halving him in size.

Therefore the chakra of the 9 tails has been halved whilst the other beast's chakra has not.
The question is up to whether or not you personally believe that the chakra of the 9 tails would be recreated in existence - (similar to what would happen if the tailed beast died with its host.)

The difference between a death and a seal, is that when the chakra is sealed - it becomes unavailable to the world - just as sealed souls are no longer available to be used in an Edo Tensei.

Therefore it is plausible to substantiate an argument that states that only half of Kurama's actual chakra is sealed - and therefore - available to Naruto, making Kurama, by himself, NOT THE STRONGEST in chakra either.

To my understanding the list might look (based on chakra) a little like this.

1, 2, 3, 4, (9), 5, 6, 7, 8
----------- 4.5------------

What do you think, and do you believe that Kurama regains his chakra over time / his being is regenerated as his chakra 'died' in the RDS?

I get what your trying to point. Its just that there are no facts about the increase in chakra for every number of tails a tailed beasts has. All we know is that the more tails the more powerful they are.
As for your theory of,,,,,,,,,,

1, 2, 3, 4, (9), 5, 6, 7, 8
----------- 4.5------------

This theory would definitely not make sense since Kurama was able to match a TTB from 5 other beasts with multiple tails. A total of 23 tails combined.

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If we follow your theory,,a TTB from the 5tails should be enough to outpower Kurama's TTB since you rated Kurama @ 4.5(half of his chakra sealed) on your scale. Also to your theory of "how well a tailed beast work with his partner makes the beast more powerful" maybe would give him them an edge. But remember that it will be limited by their partner's own chakra.
If we still follow your scale,, that would give Naruto(his partner) power equivalent to a beast that consists of 18 tails,which doesnt exist rendering the theory unxplainable.
A better question would be how much increase in power for every tail a tailed beast has.

 

[nNoma]

I think Minato did it that way in order to weaken Kurama enough so that Naruto could handle his chakra. As far as we know there have been no other situations where the host of a jinchuriki has been an infant/new born, and maybe taking in the full power of the nine-tails could be life threatening at that age.

 

[Multiply]

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Middle image. i'm done

This, this ends this entire thread. This thread basically says, even after kurama at 50% choked out 5 bijuu, he's still weaker then them :flaw::flaw::flaw:

 

[MorningMokuton]

Listen the fact is that you need to establish what exactly a Bijuu is its a living well of Chakra. It has no "Soul" in the common sense like a Shinobi does. therefore it has nothing for the Shinigami (death god of the reaper death seal) to permenetly seal away form the original vesal of 9 tails, just limitless power. A great example is the fact that When orochimaru lost the use of his arms through the reaper death seal, while facing Hiruzen, he did not lose the amount of chakra that normally would have been in the chakra flow to his arms. He lost a part of his Soul/But not his Chakra. As Bijuu are just vessels of limitless chakra they have nothing to permently seal away. Consider this Metaphor.

-There is a bucket sitting below a leaky roof, dripping water into the bucket.this roof always leaks water and will never stop.-

This represents the tailedbeast as the bucket ,and the drip of water as there chakra always being replenished.

-Now imagine a man comes along and takes half the bucket and drinks it.-

This man is Minato drinking(sealing) half the water(chakra) of the Bucket (tailed beast) with in him self (because he drank it, its in his body)

-Now the man has had to much to drink and unfortunetly dies from to much water (it can happen) the bucket will still fill back up with water because the vessel has not changed it is still the same bucket, just half the water is gone.

If this didnt work for you than read this-
As such when the 4th Hokage sealed away half the power of Kurama into naruto he divided it (using the reaper death seal) into 2 parts (one with in him self and the other in the infant naruto using the 8 trigram seal on the latter)

Now this lets the avid reader know the most important this about Kurama

(as quoted by the 4th) one person could not hold the power of the nine tails at its full capacity,

If what Minato said was true in its original wording (As no one could hold all of the 9 tails power) than Kurama would have had to been reduced to half his size/power numerous times to be passed on some many time to his host (Mito/Kushina/Naruto). If this is true than Kurama should be vastly underpowered by this stage of a 3rd time host(Naruto) Unless he keeps regenerating his power as he sits within his host.

This is made even more obvious because the 8 trigram seal of the 4th was placed on naruto to allow the 9 tails power to leak out both naturally and at a circumstace of need from naruto.\

why would the 9 tails keep leaking chakra? because it kept being replenished past the tiping point fo the seal and this need a way to vent off the extra. or else he would breach the seal and be released

 

[abhiraj]

minato sealed only half of its chakra because it was way too much to be sealed at once in a newborn

 

[Darkdeeds]

No just no. He is the strongest regardless of the halving of chakra because 9=1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8 tails im pretty sure so he's weaker then all of them together but not weaker then them each separately.

 

[NinjutsuSeeker]

For those who CBB to read - Read the Bold

Now as we all know, realistically the true strength of a tailed beast and his Jinchuuriki is not determined by the actual strength of the tailed beast, it is a combination of both of their abilities and their choice to work together that allows them to become powerful.

This removes the factor of the current fight during the war - as all tailed beasts (At least up until Edo was Released) have a Jinchuuriki to work with.

Now that is clarified we can begin to talk about the chakra available to the tailed beasts and what they really are.
I recently read a thread by @Blaze Release Wherein he determines that the tailed beasts are merely forms of spiritual energy - and do not have a physical body.

After understanding this theory, it is important to acknowledge that generally, the power of each tailed beast BY THEMSELVES (With no Jinchuuriki) is determined by the amount of tails each beast has.
This is further supported by the 8 Tails comment about the 9 tails - that the power of a Tailed beast is not determined only by the amount of tails but by the ability to work with their host. This informs us that Kurama is not working with his host at the time - he is weaker than other tailed beasts that do.
Therefore Kurama's Arrogance causes him to be weak (Alone)

In addition, the most important factor to acknowledge about Kurama's power is that his power was cut in half.
During the battle with the 4th Hokage (Minato), the 4th uses the Reaper Death Seal to seal half of the 9 Tails Chakra - evidently causing him to become halved in size.
The other half of this chakra was then sealed within Naruto - and remained with him for the rest of his life.

Now, to my knowledge, the other tailed beasts did not have any of their chakra sealed or removed from existence through being sealed - only the 9 tails lost any of his original chakra - which was sealed - halving him in size.

Therefore the chakra of the 9 tails has been halved whilst the other beast's chakra has not.
The question is up to whether or not you personally believe that the chakra of the 9 tails would be recreated in existence - (similar to what would happen if the tailed beast died with its host.)

The difference between a death and a seal, is that when the chakra is sealed - it becomes unavailable to the world - just as sealed souls are no longer available to be used in an Edo Tensei.

Therefore it is plausible to substantiate an argument that states that only half of Kurama's actual chakra is sealed - and therefore - available to Naruto, making Kurama, by himself, NOT THE STRONGEST in chakra either.

To my understanding the list might look (based on chakra) a little like this.

1, 2, 3, 4, (9), 5, 6, 7, 8
----------- 4.5------------

What do you think, and do you believe that Kurama regains his chakra over time / his being is regenerated as his chakra 'died' in the RDS?

You are the first person I have seen on this forum that actually uses proper spelling and grammar. Made me actually want to read the whole thing. But as for your post you make good points, but I still think the nine tails is the strongest, even with half his power. +rep

 

[NinjutsuSeeker]

Listen the fact is that you need to establish what exactly a Bijuu is its a living well of Chakra. It has no "Soul" in the common sense like a Shinobi does. therefore it has nothing for the Shinigami (death god of the reaper death seal) to permenetly seal away form the original vesal of 9 tails, just limitless power. A great example is the fact that When orochimaru lost the use of his arms through the reaper death seal, while facing Hiruzen, he did not lose the amount of chakra that normally would have been in the chakra flow to his arms. He lost a part of his Soul/But not his Chakra. As Bijuu are just vessels of limitless chakra they have nothing to permently seal away. Consider this Metaphor.

-There is a bucket sitting below a leaky roof, dripping water into the bucket.this roof always leaks water and will never stop.-

This represents the tailedbeast as the bucket ,and the drip of water as there chakra always being replenished.

-Now imagine a man comes along and takes half the bucket and drinks it.-

This man is Minato drinking(sealing) half the water(chakra) of the Bucket (tailed beast) with in him self (because he drank it, its in his body)

-Now the man has had to much to drink and unfortunetly dies from to much water (it can happen) the bucket will still fill back up with water because the vessel has not changed it is still the same bucket, just half the water is gone.

If this didnt work for you than read this-
As such when the 4th Hokage sealed away half the power of Kurama into naruto he divided it (using the reaper death seal) into 2 parts (one with in him self and the other in the infant naruto using the 8 trigram seal on the latter)

Now this lets the avid reader know the most important this about Kurama

(as quoted by the 4th) one person could not hold the power of the nine tails at its full capacity,

If what Minato said was true in its original wording (As no one could hold all of the 9 tails power) than Kurama would have had to been reduced to half his size/power numerous times to be passed on some many time to his host (Mito/Kushina/Naruto). If this is true than Kurama should be vastly underpowered by this stage of a 3rd time host(Naruto) Unless he keeps regenerating his power as he sits within his host.

This is made even more obvious because the 8 trigram seal of the 4th was placed on naruto to allow the 9 tails power to leak out both naturally and at a circumstace of need from naruto.\

why would the 9 tails keep leaking chakra? because it kept being replenished past the tiping point fo the seal and this need a way to vent off the extra. or else he would breach the seal and be released

I like this post but I remember reading that tsunades grandmother was able to handle all of the nine tails chakra......

 

[Kazekage35]

fail thread

 

[francois347]

Kurama having 1/2 chakra only futher proves that it is the strongest. as even now its as strong as 2,3,5,6,7 combined. Chakra wise at least as proven through tbb

 

[AverageJoenin]

im pretty sure kuramas chakra grows back! with all the years of rest he had. MInato only sealed half of kuramas chakra so it wouldnt kill naruto. kurama is the strongest TB and will always be. i thought about that 4.5 power level for TB thing and at first i agreed but everyone grows back their chakra..IMO +rep if you agree? jk

 

[Mystery God]

Fool ya fool nine tails is a Bijuu who i think is strongest after 10 tails.

RESON

1.As time passed, Kurama's size increased to be around the same height, if not taller, as the Hokage Monument. Later, despite shrinking a lot after having its Yin chakra sealed, it still remained a massive entity as its claw dwarfed Minato and Kushina. When Naruto separated Kurama from its chakra, its entire physique became visibly emaciated, but it later regained its healthy look after consuming a certain amount of Naruto's chakra while he was using its own.(Src-narutopedia). Also it was written that kurama has regained his chakra over time.

2.When pain used Chibaku Tensei, nine tails broke out of it in only his eight tailed form. Even pain didn't anticipated this because chibaka tensei was his strongest of attack.

3. While helping naruto to take Kurama's chakra 8 tails admited that kurama was "damm strong".

4. The battles kurama has lost is only because of his arrogance and no strategy.

5. He defeated 5 TBB with hius own. It was no strategy as it was a head on fight.After that 8-tails admitted again Kurama was very strong.

6. Nine tails believed that the more the tails the stronger a Bijuu. I believe that.
Ex:-We know the sanbi is no math for 4-tails.

7. As we know kurama is physically strong as well. He is the fastest due to his four legs. Has the hightest no. of tails and can use them at battle.

8.He is weak only because haters think he is. I can't do anything about a persons personal opinion.

 

[Prime Rib]

kurama is the strongest beast out of the 9 of them cause hes closets to the 10 tails.

 

[LBeezy]

thread fail

 

[jtolliver87]

9 > 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1

especially when their power increases exponentially

 

[Darkdeeds]

Actually what i said before might not be completely true. I think you need to establish what it is you're trying to find out.

If you're going by simply chakra he is not the strongest anymore possibly.

If going by strength he could still be the strongest.Let me ask you this. When naruto was first training to unleash his chakra nature do you think he was stronger then kakashi? If you think he was then thats crazy. But if you think he was still weaker then in theory the 9 tails is stronger then the other biju.

I know i know that all looks like a weird summation but here is why it makes sense. When kakashi was training naruto he talks about his chakra levels he says naruto has something like 2 times the chakra that he himself has. So in other words chakra does not equal strength. This last part is imo but chakra is just the limit towards how long you are able to use the techniques that you know. Hope this helped and if it did i believe that's like winning.

:scorps: Oh and btw the part where kakashi says that is chapter 315 page 11 sorry i don't know how to insert chapter pages yet

 

[Cascade]

anyone thought that maybe the other tailed beast's beast bombs were smaller because Tobi was already having trouble controlling the beasts and didnt want them to do anything stupid....?

Just look at Naruto in BM. That requires massive chakra plus Kurama even spared a CLONE with chakra. Shadow clones were known to take up alot of chakra. Naruto is in BM mode, Clones, RAsenshuriken.

Chakra regenerates .. Tsunade used up nearly all of her chakra during Pains Rampage, Before she fought Madara, She was fully loaded.

The power of Kurama's is on a different scale of the other bijuus. Naruto backhanded 5 TBB. Thats not in Kurama Mode. In KM Naruto, it took on 5 TBB that were formed into one.

NAruto>Bee because of the tailed beast. BM NAruto v BM Bee and Naruto wins without a doubt. Kurama's chakra allows Naruto to travel at speeds as fast as Minato and strength of Tsunade.

Even if ur small brain thinks that something that happend 16 yrs ago still is in affect, Kurama took on 5 bijuu's that had full chakra, TBB at the same time. Ur stupid logic is saying Kurama at half power took on 5 fully powered bijuus but yet 5 6 7 8 is stronger than Kurama.. Smh

Hachibi was having trouble with the 5 bijuu's. Hachibi even said Kuramas Hella strong is Powerful. Hachibi stepped out and Kurama had to step in and finish the job. I mean ur saying Hachibi's stronger than Kurama then why is it that Kurama took them on and no hachibi? Hachibi even wondered if Kurama would help

Now you stated that 5 6 7 8 are stronger than Kurama. Kurama took on 5 and 6 by him self along sides 2 3 4 tailed bijuus.

Narutos the only ones that havnt been absorbed up by Gedo. Bee lost one tail. If he's weaker than 5 6 7 8 why is it that they're sealed up & dead (except for bee of course) and Naruto's not?

You had your diagram wrong it should be more like this:
Kurama at Half Strength > 1 2 3 4 5 6
Kurama at Full Strength > 1-8

Note* I keep bringing up Hachibi because he's the 2nd strongest bijuu to Kurama and showing what Hachibi couldnt do that Kurama did do. Not saying he's weak.

u only talk about naruto with biijuu, never just bijuu by himself
dont insult me for assuming that, what have you read that makes you think that kurama by himself, at this time, would still have his chakra

please see my waterbottle reference last page

Listen the fact is that you need to establish what exactly a Bijuu is its a living well of Chakra. It has no "Soul" in the common sense like a Shinobi does. therefore it has nothing for the Shinigami (death god of the reaper death seal) to permenetly seal away form the original vesal of 9 tails, just limitless power. A great example is the fact that When orochimaru lost the use of his arms through the reaper death seal, while facing Hiruzen, he did not lose the amount of chakra that normally would have been in the chakra flow to his arms. He lost a part of his Soul/But not his Chakra. As Bijuu are just vessels of limitless chakra they have nothing to permently seal away. Consider this Metaphor.

-There is a bucket sitting below a leaky roof, dripping water into the bucket.this roof always leaks water and will never stop.-

This represents the tailedbeast as the bucket ,and the drip of water as there chakra always being replenished.

-Now imagine a man comes along and takes half the bucket and drinks it.-

This man is Minato drinking(sealing) half the water(chakra) of the Bucket (tailed beast) with in him self (because he drank it, its in his body)

-Now the man has had to much to drink and unfortunetly dies from to much water (it can happen) the bucket will still fill back up with water because the vessel has not changed it is still the same bucket, just half the water is gone.

If this didnt work for you than read this-
As such when the 4th Hokage sealed away half the power of Kurama into naruto he divided it (using the reaper death seal) into 2 parts (one with in him self and the other in the infant naruto using the 8 trigram seal on the latter)

Now this lets the avid reader know the most important this about Kurama

(as quoted by the 4th) one person could not hold the power of the nine tails at its full capacity,

If what Minato said was true in its original wording (As no one could hold all of the 9 tails power) than Kurama would have had to been reduced to half his size/power numerous times to be passed on some many time to his host (Mito/Kushina/Naruto). If this is true than Kurama should be vastly underpowered by this stage of a 3rd time host(Naruto) Unless he keeps regenerating his power as he sits within his host.

This is made even more obvious because the 8 trigram seal of the 4th was placed on naruto to allow the 9 tails power to leak out both naturally and at a circumstace of need from naruto.\

why would the 9 tails keep leaking chakra? because it kept being replenished past the tiping point fo the seal and this need a way to vent off the extra. or else he would breach the seal and be released

Your bucket metaphor would be correct if it was minato cutting the bucket in half.
someone drinking the water in that bucket would be kurama using jutsu and therefore his chakra.

Your idea of 'nobody being able to hold the full power of the jutsu' is correct, if kurama died to swap hosts - either from old age of the host or in battle
But his chakra has never been sealed to my knowledge - into an RDS where that chakra is no longer available, therefore the chakra that was sealed is no longer a part of the 9 tails i.e. inaccessable, the capacity of the juubi has changed. The leakage is regenerated, because that leakage hasnt been sealed with RDS.

 

[Darkdeeds]

Even if the kyuubi chakra has been halved it's said to posses close to infinite chakra and his(her) chakra being reduced doesn't limit his abilities,he won't get slower,his durability the same even his tail beast bomb still big as before, it's his abilities that make him the strongest not chakra and even when halved still have better showings than bee+hachibi. And no other tail beast is said to have close to infinite chakra, judging from your title and your post it seems you think chakra determines strenght and you are wrong abilities determines strenght 50percent kyuubi will still beat other tail beast

Damn you beat me to it lol. He has it right.

 

[Cascade]

Damn you beat me to it lol. He has it right.

wasnt that statement about all the bijuu in general - i beleive it was never made specific to the bijuu - in which case a 'close to infinite' chakra in every single beast - halved would then mean other beasts are stronger than him.

So much hate for opposing anything to do with kurama being strongest

Gtg to my school formal, will be back tho sorry for making such a fail thread i guess? was only trying to prove an opinion lol.
some of you guys dont even read the OP and just post your fanboyness all over the title alone.

 

[Mystery God]

anyone thought that maybe the other tailed beast's beast bombs were smaller because Tobi was already having trouble controlling the beasts and didnt want them to do anything stupid....?

I am so frustated now.You just don't accept it. Bee+8 tails could not defeat any of the tailed beasts than how did 9 tails+naruto solo them. Remember naruto was out of chakra and had continously been using Kurama's chakra from the start as well. So it means it was only Kurama's chakra. Also it made Naruto the fastest person and i guess strongest as well(The strength of nine tails).

Narutopedia... Later, despite shrinking a lot after having its Yin chakra sealed, it still remained a massive entity as its claw dwarfed Minato and Kushina. When Naruto separated Kurama from its chakra, its entire physique became visibly emaciated,[24] but it later regained its healthy look after consuming a certain amount of Naruto's chakra while he was using its own.[25]

SO HIS CHAKRA CAPICITY IS 4.5*2=9 again.LOL
AND SIZE IS BACK TO NORMAL.