Is shisui>hashirama?

[choft]

U_U Ok... and I care, why? There are other Naruto forums I can go to. This is the internet. U_U



Amaterasu was stated to not die even when MS is not active. However, genjutsu don't stay active once the MS has been deactivated. When Hiruzen fought the Hokages... the genjutsu faded away, right? Hiruzen killing the Hokage is the same way as MS fading away - KA uses MS as the source of power... just like the Hokage uses himself for power.

But none of it applies to KA. What applies to something else doesn't neccesarily apply to KA. Do you understand how KA works btw?

 

[Helikido]

U_U Dude, once the MS fades away... you can't use any MS techs(Susano'o being the exception). Have you seen any Uchiha use an MS tech when the MS is not active? No

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Where he's coming from is a totally illogical point, that can't work in any debate... He's assuming things that has never been covered and attempting to use Hashirama's title as strongest shinobi in Madara's time as defence for the Jutsu...

Many people thus far has explained why his logic is flawed and what Ka is capable of, and even then his argument is


Take note we already covered how Ka is more than enough to finish the job...
Now I see he's arguing that it doesn't last long? Once again, completely against the fact that the manga explained Ka implants false memories and commands into the victim, Which would last even when the jutsu was finished..

Just like the effects of tsukyomi lasts even when the jutsu is finished

I already reported him once can you do the same now? Please? I almost got banned because of him U_U

 

[Seraphiel]

Get of this thread you troll. Itachi Burned shisuis Ms with Amaterasu and he was still under its control. Seriously bud quit trolling.

He overrode the Kabuto's Edo Tensei command, but the jutsu is not active anymore. Shisui can't control Hashirama with KA if his MS is not active. Danzo when Danzo used KA for Mifune... he stated that he can't use KA many times in a day. That implied that KA wares off once MS wares off.

 

[Seraphiel]

But none of it applies to KA. What applies to something else doesn't neccesarily apply to KA. Do you understand how KA works btw?

You can't use a genjutsu that requires MS if MS is not active. Have you ever seen Itachi use Tsukuyomi when his MS is not active? How can you control someone with a genjutsu... when what's needed(MS) to control that person is not active?

 

[choft]

He overrode the Kabuto's Edo Tensei command, but the jutsu is not active anymore. Shisui can't control Hashirama with KA if his MS is not active. Danzo when Danzo used KA for Mifune... he stated that he can't use KA many times in a day. That implied that KA wares off once MS wares off.

Ok, just think about this. If KA truly disappears as you said. What is the point of having Naruto KA Sasuke? Remember Itachi's plan was to use the crow to put Sasuke under KA in order to protect Konoha. He wanted Sasuke to help Konoha, not destroy it.

If the effects of KA wore off, what would be the point of his plan?

You can't use a genjutsu that requires MS if MS is not active. Have you ever seen Itachi use Tsukuyomi when his MS is not active? How can you control someone with a genjutsu... when what's needed(MS) to control that person is not active?

I already answered this in the post you quoted: What applies to something else doesn't neccesarily apply to KA.

 

[Helikido]

He overrode the Kabuto's Edo Tensei command, but the jutsu is not active anymore. Shisui can't control Hashirama with KA if his MS is not active. Danzo when Danzo used KA for Mifune... he stated that he can't use KA many times in a day. That implied that KA wares off once MS wares off.

Their is a difference between an uchiha and a non uchiha using it :sy:

Please get of my thread now? Please? Itachi has been under its control and still is....:flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw:

:roku:

 

[Seraphiel]

Ok, just think about this. If KA truly disappears as you said. What is the point of having Naruto KA Sasuke? Remember Itachi's plan was to use the crow to put Sasuke under KA in order to protect Konoha. He wanted Sasuke to help Konoha, not destroy it.

If the effects of KA wore off, what would be the point of his plan?

Even if the command is still in place, he can't control him anymore because the jutsu wore off. To change the commande again(basically to keep controlling him) he needs to use KA again, but he can't... he has to wait 10 years.

Their is a difference between an uchiha and a non uchiha using it :sy:

Please get of my thread now? Please? Itachi has been under its control and still is....:flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw::flaw:

:roku:

The effects of the jutsu are the same. And Danzo using Hashirama's DNA is most likely better than Shisui using it himself. Hashirama's chakra is better than an Uchiha's.

 

[Helikido]

Even if the command is still in place, he can't control him anymore because the jutsu wore off. To change the commande again(basically to keep controlling him) he needs to use KA again, but he can't... he has to wait 10 years.

All he needs is a command to have hashi kill himslef and he wins.. Get of my thread now.

 

[choft]

Even if the command is still in place, he can't control him anymore because the jutsu wore off. To change the commande again(basically to keep controlling him) he needs to use KA again, but he can't... he has to wait 10 years.

Ok, you do realise that if this is true, Hashirama would lose to Shisui.

Shisui commands Hashirama to kill himself.

Hashirama kills himself. Shisui can't change the command but why would he want to?

Alternatively, Shisui commands Hashirama to fight on Shisui's side at all times.

Again, why would Shisui want to change the command?

What you just said actually strengthens my argument and not yours.

 

[Helikido]

Ok, you do realise that if this is true, Hashirama would lose to Shisui.

Shisui commands Hashirama to kill himself.

Hashirama kills himself. Shisui can't change the command but why would he want to?

Alternatively, Shisui commands Hashirama to fight on Shisui's side at all times.

Again, why would Shisui want to change the command?

What you just said actually strengthens my argument and not yours.

The guy is a troll lol. I already reported him haha

 

[Weezy]

no way

 

[Seraphiel]

Ok, you do realise that if this is true, Hashirama would lose to Shisui.

Shisui commands Hashirama to kill himself.

Hashirama kills himself. Shisui can't change the command but why would he want to?

Alternatively, Shisui commands Hashirama to fight on Shisui's side at all times.

Again, why would Shisui want to change the command?

What you just said actually strengthens my argument and not yours.

As Owarij said: "with the idea planting, the person still has a choice to do it or not.. but the idea is there..."

is he stronger? no , can he beat him in a fight? yes

He simply has a genjutsu hashirama can't counter since he not only doesn't know about shishui, he doesn't know about it..


Exactly, But it goes deeper, It's not just an idea anymore..

with the idea planting, the person still has a choice to do it or not.. but the idea is there... Shishui is almost complete manipulation.. he can implant memories of him being your friend all your life, and you will believe it, because you think it happened..

It's like that dude from bleach, tsuchimama or w.e

 

[choft]

As Owarij said: "with the idea planting, the person still has a choice to do it or not.. but the idea is there..."

You completely forgot about the rest of his post.

 

[Helikido]

As Owarij said: "with the idea planting, the person still has a choice to do it or not.. but the idea is there..."

Lol he called you an idiot lol. And yes like owarji also said, he has complete manipulation.

 

[Seraphiel]

You completely forgot about the rest of his post.

I didn't, but the fact of the matter is... he can choose whether to act upon it or not.

Lol he called you an idiot lol. And yes like owarji also said, he has complete manipulation.

He said "almost"

 

[choft]

I didn't, but the fact of the matter is... he can choose whether to act upon it or not.

No, that's not what Owarij said. The part you quoted in bold from Owarij was referring to my part about Inception. He said that Shisui's KA is actually deeper than that. The whole part of the quote you didn't bold is how Shisui's KA works.

 

[Helikido]

I didn't, but the fact of the matter is... he can choose whether to act upon it or not.

Sorry to burst you bubles, but their is no "choice" in KA. It has been proven many times. Itachi as an example. if its implanted as a command, its going to be a command.

 

[Seraphiel]

No, that's not what Owarij said. The part you quoted in bold from Owarij was referring to my part about Inception. He said that Shisui's KA is actually deeper than that. The whole part of the quote you didn't bold is how Shisui's KA works.

You compared it to the movie, but I've never seen it.

And this will lead nowhere. You guys have your opinions and I have mine.

 

[choft]

You compared it to the movie, but I've never seen it.

And this will lead nowhere. You guys have your opinions and I have mine.

Yes, and then the part you bolded was Owarij talking about how the idea works in Inception. He then says that Shisui's KA is deeper than that, and then says how he thinks KA works which is the stuff you didn't bold.

 

[Seraphiel]

Yes, and then the part you bolded was Owarij talking about how the idea works in Inception. He then says that Shisui's KA is deeper than that, and then says how he thinks KA works which is the stuff you didn't bold.

Cool. But I'll keep my opinion on it... you keep yours.