When you compare Naruto to Sasuke, Kurama SHOULD be excluded.

[soulless uchiha]

u have failed on this thread.... accept it

 

[30angel100]

Let's just compare Naruto and Sasuke as general people since Naruto uses the 9 tails power, and Sasuke uses his sharingan which gets it's power from those around it. Obviously they rarely use their own power and when they do, they fail (I'm NOT saying every single time they fail).

 

[Champ]

Ofcourse without Kurama Naruto would get owned

 

[6DIVINExJUDGEMENT8]

dude people are either too much of a fan of Naruto or too much of a Sasuke hater...

this thread is simple to understand, and very logical. this is about WHAT THE CLANS WERE BORN WITH, not what they have now..

Uzumaki are not born with bijuus already in them. Naruto was given Kurama until after he was born. yes the bijuu's power is now his to use, but he was not born with it.

Uchiha are born with the ability to activate the sharingan, ms, ems, and rinnegan. it is not given to them like Kakashi and Danzo.

that's all -Helikido- is trying to say. take away what was given to them, not born with, (Naurto's bijuu/Sasuke's curse mark) and then they can be considered equal.

 

[ItachiSan03]

I never did understand this "take away so and so's _____ and...." like, what does it matter? They have it. It doesnt matter if it was given to them, they still have it, so if we're going to be doing comparisons we should include everything.

 

[Munboy]

Perhaps in the old days when Naruto couldn't control Kurama's power. Not now in the age where Naruto has total control over Kurama and his power.

 

[ixc]

You people all forget 2 FACTS, the only bloody ****ing reason why Naruto is this strong are 1. Because he's the sad main character and perhaps the MAIN reason is because he has the 9 tails, without the 9 tails he would have been shit. The 9 tails is the only thing that makes Naruto strong. Sorry but i had to tell the truth. Sasuke on the hand has always been a top student YES he overrushes and acts too cool from time to time but in raw power he owns the **** out of Naruto and if he would have been as calm as Itachi was he would have even been stronger or atleast used his power even better than he already showed in some fights. Yes i'm a huge Itachi and Sasuke fan. If you wan't to hate me go ahead.

 

[MorphyRulez]

Minato gave Kurama to Naruto,
Itachi gave EMS to Sasuke, + Itachi awakened Sasuke's MS again others help.
For Last Chapter as Madara said, Perfect Susano'o >= Bujii.(in *********** said not even >)
What's your point ? Sasuke used others power for long time, Orochimaru's Cursed Seal + Orochimaru's Chakra Reserves.
I think it's fair. Perfect Susano'o Vs Bujii Mode.

 

[Anorien16]

Also remember base naruto is not that weak and a good match for sasuke:
1. In base stats naruto still has SM
2. Without Kurama ma and pa can fuse with naruto and indefinately extend SM and also provide sauiton, fuuton, katon, genjutsu techs and can also release genjutsu if naruto falls under it. (Dont complain if sasuke's summons are not that cool)
3. Dont count on kirin, it requires stormclouds to perform. Sasuke needs hell lot of heat to form clouds, two or three katons not gona do the trick. Sasuke need a lot of time before he can use that and naruto can just blow the clouds away with wind release. Personally i would like to see a rasensuriken and kirin clash. (In fight with itachi it was more of an plot no jutsu and also had help from the extreme heat from amaterasu)
4. Naruto in sage mode has a great power boost to all jutsu, speed, endurance and a near 33% chakra boost.
5. Those who complain naruto has no base chakra check out these facts: both Gaara and Kushina had their bijuu removed, but kushina was able to hold down kurama (even tough she was exhausted) with her chakra chains and gaara can still use his sand powers effectively (even seems to be improving). In a nut shell, jinkchuriki's have high chakra even without their biju (Gaara was born jink too), so naruto do have high chakra as he held down kurama since birth plus he has uzumaki powers of strong chakra and life force.
6. Yes naruto needs clones to do most of his techs but needs only one for rasengan and two for rasensuriken, i think he can handle at least 3-4 clones in base mode. (Also note that when clones disappear they add their chakra to their user)
7. Without sharingan sasuke has only raiton and katon. Plus his reflexes will slower as he no longer can predict opponent's moves and genjutsu skill will be much reduced.
8. Lee once defaeted Sasuke easily (just before chunin exams), so can he do it now? past is past.

Side note:
1. Dont complain why SM is included in base form but sharingan is not, its cos SM can be LEARNT, sasuke can learn SM but naruto can never LEARN SHARINGAN.
2. B4 u call me or anyone who agrees with me a fanboy or just simply say sasuke can beat naruto bcos he is sasuke, can u prove my points wrong? OR in anyway prove why naruto is not at least an equal (if not greater than) of sasuke, even in base mode?
3. Even if sasuke is allwed to have MS, (Not EMS as the eyes are his brothers not his own) sasuke wld be blind or partially blind.
4. For proof of my statements:
a. read the manga
b.

You must be registered for see links

c.

You must be registered for see links

d.

You must be registered for see links

e.

You must be registered for see links

f. Use ur brain and think logically.

I once said the above in a discussin but i m not going to modify it to this contex. U guys can see what i meant then.
But the fact remains Sasuke has Sahringan (Imagine if sasuke's mother had an affair with J-man) and Naruto has Kurama. And if FATE aka KISHI aka THE REAL GOD OF NARUTOVERSE decides to give them these powers and call them rivals and thus near equals, we are none to dispute it.

Also ur wrong, Naruto's uzumaki bloodline only gives him 'strong' chakra, not 'more' chakra. Its quality he got not quantity. And it is only useful to hold the biju down only (while the necessary quantity of chakra is the jink's personal characteristics). Also note the uchiha have 'strong' chakra aswell (See:

You must be registered for see links

) Also lifeforce is only useful for resisting the biju, living long and survive the biju extraction. It has no battle application. Also note senzu and uzumaki is different, and so is their abilities. The only common thing they have got is that they both have traces of younger son's power.

Minato gave Kurama to Naruto,
Itachi gave EMS to Sasuke, + Itachi awakened Sasuke's MS again others help.
For Last Chapter as Madara said, Perfect Susano'o >= Bujii.(in *********** said not even >)
What's your point ? Sasuke used others power for long time, Orochimaru's Cursed Seal + Orochimaru's Chakra Reserves.
I think it's fair. Perfect Susano'o Vs Bujii Mode.

And i will like to add the fact that, Sasuke had the sharingan to learn moves and jutsus faster than any normal human. Where as normal humans have to learn, practise and then master; Sasuke cld do it in a instant. Is that fair? He can learn everything in a day what normal people take years, so naturally he wld be better than others. So something is needed to even the scales and thats where kurama comes into play.

 

[ixc]

I'm talking about raw strength when you compare Naruto and Sasuke. Didn't even use the Sharingan or the cursed seal. Kishi gave the cursed seal to Sasuke to catch up with the 9 tails power (i guess) (of course given by Oro so he would seek for power). On the other hand in the condition that Sasuke is in now i think he could beat Naruto with the 9 tails any day (without his other bullshit powers) and now that we've seen a Perfect Sasuno'o + Izanami/Izanagi + the fact that the Sharingan can awaken the Rinnegan i see Sasuke winning against Naruto in any condition, when he gets those powers (think he will)

 

[Hashirama Senju 48]

Then Kakashi's sharingan should be excluded too when hes compared to someone. And Sasuke got his MS/EMS from Itachi he didnt train for that while Naruto trained to learn SM and control Kyuubi.
So sorry but youre a hater or ......you know

I agree.... Was abt to say the same thing

 

[Anorien16]

I'm talking about raw strength when you compare Naruto and Sasuke. Didn't even use the Sharingan or the cursed seal. Kishi gave the cursed seal to Sasuke to catch up with the 9 tails power (i guess) (of course given by Oro so he would seek for power). On the other hand in the condition that Sasuke is in now i think he could beat Naruto with the 9 tails any day (without his other bullshit powers) and now that we've seen a Perfect Sasuno'o + Izanami/Izanagi + the fact that the Sharingan can awaken the Rinnegan i see Sasuke winning against Naruto in any condition, when he gets those powers (think he will)

Yes a sixteen year old will be able to draw near the level of The Greatest Shinobi his clan ever produced after its founder died, who was infact able to draw near the level of the Sage only through a LIFETIME of effort and war. But only the future will tell, unless someone knows Kishi personally.

As for fighting sasuke:
1. Amaterasu: Naruto is Faster than A and can easily dodge it.
2. Blaze release: It can only hit Naruto if he uses taijutsu moves. Naruto can use long rangers or a clone.
3. Susano: Can sasuke keep it up for ever? (In danzo fight he spluttering after abot < 10 minutes) No, if he lets it down he's finished due to any form of attack, while Naruto can move around dodgeing if he keeps it up.
4. Genjutsu wont work as Naruto is a perfect jink now.
5. As i said b4:
Also remember base naruto is not that weak and a good match for sasuke:
1. In base stats naruto still has SM
2. Without Kurama ma and pa can fuse with naruto and indefinately extend SM and also provide sauiton, fuuton, katon, genjutsu techs and can also release genjutsu if naruto falls under it. (Dont complain if sasuke's summons are not that cool)
3. Dont count on kirin, it requires stormclouds to perform. Sasuke needs hell lot of heat to form clouds, two or three katons not gona do the trick. Sasuke need a lot of time before he can use that and naruto can just blow the clouds away with wind release. Personally i would like to see a rasensuriken and kirin clash. (In fight with itachi it was more of an plot no jutsu and also had help from the extreme heat from amaterasu)
4. Naruto in sage mode has a great power boost to all jutsu, speed, endurance and a near 33% chakra boost.
5. Those who complain naruto has no base chakra check out these facts: both Gaara and Kushina had their bijuu removed, but kushina was able to hold down kurama (even tough she was exhausted) with her chakra chains and gaara can still use his sand powers effectively (even seems to be improving). In a nut shell, jinkchuriki's have high chakra even without their biju, so naruto do have high chakra as he held down kurama since birth plus he has uzumaki powers of strong chakra and life force.
6. Yes naruto needs clones to do most of his techs but needs only one for rasengan and two for rasensuriken, i think he can handle at least 3-4 clones in base mode. (Also note that when clones disappear they add their chakra to their user)
7. Without sharingan sasuke has only raiton and katon. Plus his reflexes will slower as he no longer can predict opponent's moves and genjutsu skill will be much reduced.
8. Lee once defaeted Sasuke easily (just before chunin exams), so can he do it now? past is past.

Side note:
1. Dont complain why SM is included in base form but sharingan is not, its cos SM can be LEARNT, sasuke can learn SM but naruto can never LEARN SHARINGAN.
2. B4 u call me or anyone who agrees with me a fanboy or just simply say sasuke can beat naruto bcos he is sasuke, can u prove my points wrong? OR in anyway prove why naruto is not at least an equal (if not greater than) of sasuke, even in base mode?
3. Even if sasuke is allwed to have MS, (Not EMS as the eyes are his brothers not his own) sasuke wld be blind or partially blind.
4. For proof of my statements:
a. read the manga
b.

You must be registered for see links

c.

You must be registered for see links

d.

You must be registered for see links

e.

You must be registered for see links

f. Use ur brain and think logically.

 

[saw2097]

You people all forget 2 FACTS, the only bloody ****ing reason why Naruto is this strong are 1. Because he's the sad main character and perhaps the MAIN reason is because he has the 9 tails, without the 9 tails he would have been shit. The 9 tails is the only thing that makes Naruto strong. Sorry but i had to tell the truth. Sasuke on the hand has always been a top student YES he overrushes and acts too cool from time to time but in raw power he owns the **** out of Naruto and if he would have been as calm as Itachi was he would have even been stronger or atleast used his power even better than he already showed in some fights. Yes i'm a huge Itachi and Sasuke fan. If you wan't to hate me go ahead.

Naruto was also born with four times the average chakra level and incredible life force. He also has a lot of natural talent.

Sasuke was born with power Naruto earned it. Thats the story. Naruto got this strong through hard work and determination.
Oh and I want to remind everyone of something. Its a manga. THe author is making it all up. It isn't real. So this is Naruto's story and Sasuke is his rival. So why would Naruto get owned in his own story. Sasuke is also evil. Naruto is good.

Oh and one last thing. IT IS A MANGA IT IS NOT REAL SO STOP ARGUING ABOUT WHO IS STRONGER.

Besides Naruto is probably going to lose the 9 tails anyway. When they fight I wouldn't be surprised if Naruto has to fight him without the 9 tails. Sasuke is supposed to be stronger. It makes him a bigger threat. The whole point of his character is that he is Naruto's nemesis. So he has to be the biggest bad guy in the series. And Naruto will probably be fighting without the 9 tails and using everything he has against him. And in the end win against all odds. Thats what makes a good epic fight.

 

[Shiny Scrafty]

Put it like this.
Sasuke has his Sharingan in his face.
Naruto has Kurama inside of him.

It's fair because they both get an added bonus. If it wouldn't be fair to take away his EMS, why is it fair to take away Naruto's Kurama?
Are you hatin' on Naruto because he's stronger than Sasuke?
Yeah, that's why. Case closed.

 

[Honord Sage]

Uzamaki Clan: All are born with big chakra reserves, and with a strong life force and bodies. None are born with Bijuus.

Uchiha Clan: All are born with the ability to awaken the sharingan and use it, and are also born with a more prestigious chakra of higher quality, which is why they are able to use the sharing an without any chakra drain. None are born with Bijuus.

Result?: At this point, they naruto and sasuke are both equal. They are both gifted with special genes from their clan. Their gifts are perfectly balanced.

BUT: Even after all that, naruta also has Kurama, an addition that outweighs throws that balance off..

Conclusion?: It is unfair to compare naruto with sasuke using kurama as that is not his own power.

Why?: Look back at manga, naruto always relies on an external source of chakra other than his weather it be sage mode or kurama.

Now look back at sasuke, he ONLY relies on his OWN chakra for ALL of his techniques except kirin. Never relies on an outer source of chakra.

Why waste your time and create such a thread?: That is because a thread similar like this one was created stating that it is fair to compare naruto with kurama to sasuke. Allot of people agreed and that only shows the failed logic some people have on NB. I'm just trying to point people in the right direction of thought. Or at least a logical one.

Your an idiot op!: Am I? You see, if they are given the same amount of gifts ( the body to naruto and the eyes to sasuke), wouldn't adding a bijuu throw off the balance?

That can never be done Kishi made it the way it is,so get used to it You can't change what Kishi has done.

 

[MorphyRulez]

I once said the above in a discussin but i m not going to modify it to this contex. U guys can see what i meant then.
But the fact remains Sasuke has Sahringan (Imagine if sasuke's mother had an affair with J-man) and Naruto has Kurama. And if FATE aka KISHI aka THE REAL GOD OF NARUTOVERSE decides to give them these powers and call them rivals and thus near equals, we are none to dispute it.

Also ur wrong, Naruto's uzumaki bloodline only gives him 'strong' chakra, not 'more' chakra. Its quality he got not quantity. And it is only useful to hold the biju down only (while the necessary quantity of chakra is the jink's personal characteristics). Also note the uchiha have 'strong' chakra aswell (See:

You must be registered for see links

) Also lifeforce is only useful for resisting the biju, living long and survive the biju extraction. It has no battle application. Also note senzu and uzumaki is different, and so is their abilities. The only common thing they have got is that they both have traces of younger son's power.



And i will like to add the fact that, Sasuke had the sharingan to learn moves and jutsus faster than any normal human. Where as normal humans have to learn, practise and then master; Sasuke cld do it in a instant. Is that fair? He can learn everything in a day what normal people take years, so naturally he wld be better than others. So something is needed to even the scales and thats where kurama comes into play.

But Naruto has a trick too. With Kage Bunshin spam tech, he created Rasenshiruken in several days or week. Thanks to Kurama i think but i get it, Sasuke has an advantage in some ways too. Result is They are equal. They are both gifted from someone. If they don't this show called ROCK LEE Shippuuden i guess xd

 

[BubbleSan]

MS ems is a uchiha blood line ability buddy. I thought I said that?

kurama is not an uzamaki ability. Didn't I say that? And sasuke awekened his MS after he learned the truth . It was never given to him.

MS EMS is a bloodline ability but all Uchiha can't just unlock it...thats like walking up to a man with a gun and saying if you didnt have a gun i could beat you in a fight. Hes just going to shoot you and you'll die. You're trying to take away narutos gun.

 

[devilking123]

You guys don't get what I mean, madaras abilities are all his own abilities from his own blood and own techniques and his own chakra. And so is hashiramas! Naruto though relies too much on kurama, for example look at hashirama! that's what a true uzumaki should be like! relying on his own blood line huge ass chakra reserves!

yea but all uzumakis have are large charka reserves and life force what can that do in a fight besides being able to take a good bunch of hits like a man sharingan controls bijuu so its pretty equal

 

[saw2097]

He probably will have to only use his own power when he fights Sasuke. I suspect he loses the 9 tails eventually but gains some power he was born with and has to learn how to fight without the 9 tails power. And as a result he becomes stronger in a way.

 

[Anorien16]

But Naruto has a trick too. With Kage Bunshin spam tech, he created Rasenshiruken in several days or week. Thanks to Kurama i think but i get it, Sasuke has an advantage in some ways too. Result is They are equal. They are both gifted from someone. If they don't this show called ROCK LEE Shippuuden i guess xd

Yes didnt i say 'something is needed to even the scaleas a bit'? Kurama is the balancing factor, If kurama wasnt there, naruto's progress wld have slowed down too. So its fair for both of them to have their powers.

You guys don't get what I mean, madaras abilities are all his own abilities from his own blood and own techniques and his own chakra. And so is hashiramas! Naruto though relies too much on kurama, for example look at hashirama! that's what a true uzumaki should be like! relying on his own blood line huge ass chakra reserves!

yea but all uzumakis have are large charka reserves and life force what can that do in a fight besides being able to take a good bunch of hits like a man sharingan controls bijuu so its pretty equal

Also u forgot to mention that Hashirama is a Senzu not uzumaki and had a cool blood line limit: the mokuton. But the uzumkis have 'Strong' chakra not 'more' chakra. I might have missed it where it said 'large chakra rserve', have u the link?