Hiruzen

[Hipster Madara]

Re: Hiruzen beat Hashirama while letting his guard down,

This one was a bit of a desperate attempt to prove that Hashirama is < Hiruzen.

Other than an opinion given by Kabuto, who, might I add, also is the reason that Hashirama is known to have fabled strength to us readers, there is no evidence that Hiruzen is the greatest. All this prime bullshit is stupid, and those who talk about it don't realize how stupid they sound over one measly statement.

ikr, i agree.

 

[lonewolf77766]

Re: Hiruzen beat Hashirama while letting his guard down,

Everybody and their mama knows that 1st and 2nd hokages edo was only at 20% of their strenght at the time due to oro's edo tensei had not been perfected yet!! So your thread prove nothing it is an epic fail! To be a real fan you have to know every details and understand every logic and accept simple facts!! The 3rd was a great shinobi, but even if he was in his prime he can't beat the 1st!!

20% of their strength? Where is your source saying it's 20%?

Orochimaru prefected the Edo Tensei and Kabuto enhanced it.

Kishimoto doesn't agree with you.

This one was a bit of a desperate attempt to prove that Hashirama is < Hiruzen.

Other than an opinion given by Kabuto, who, might I add, also is the reason that Hashirama is known to have fabled strength to us readers, there is no evidence that Hiruzen is the greatest. All this prime bullshit is stupid, and those who talk about it don't realize how stupid they sound over one measly statement.

Kishimoto's statements are proofs that Hiruzen is stronger than Hashi.

so many things wrong...how do u kno the first was in his prime? orochi was controlling them too so u cant say all that good stuff abt the 1st...this thread is a dub

Because Hashi was younger and can use Mokuton and BOD. Kishimoto doesn't say anything about controlling through Edo makes Hashi weaker, where is your source?

These threads are to much. Yea he let his guard down but it was cause it was the only way to use the only trump card he had left to play.

Read the manga please, before that he also let his guard down because Hiruzen is too compassionate.

 

[lonewolf77766]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

Hiruzen was called the strongest EARLY pt 1, I don't think he realized there would be a part 2 or knew where he was going with the story at that point. He's only human guys, he's bound to contradict himself.


IMO hype aside, Hashi stomps Hiruzen.

Hashi has as much hype as Hiruzen, with better feats (through Edo Madara)

Hiruzen is stronger than Hashi unless Kishi retcon the manga, live with it, Hiruzen beat Hashi.

What is wrong with the databook stats is that its not only too vague some of what it states isnt supported by the manga. The stats is too vague to be taken absolute.

Secondly you have to note that the databook exaggerate the description of techniques. Its merely there to tell you what the technique does

Kishimoto, Manga, Databook >>> You

 

[Blaze Release]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

Hiruzen is stronger than Hashi unless Kishi retcon the manga, live with it, Hiruzen beat Hashi.



Kishimoto, Manga, Databook >>> You

Fuq is this shit. I do not remember saying the databook is wrong. Merely stating that its too vague

 

[lonewolf77766]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

Fuq is this shit. I do not remember saying the databook is wrong. Merely stating that its too vague

Did I say you were wrong? I said,

Kishimoto, Manga, Databook >>> You

 

[cytoplasm]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

databook is cannon.

This is so stupid because the Manga is actually cannon. The Data Book is just the recent cannon summed up. If the data book was cannon it would already contin all the informations about the whole Manga.

for example in the databook sha it is said that tobi = madara
but the recent mangachapters show us that tobi ≠ madara becaue the real madara was summoned so you're implying that even though the real madara was summoned tobi = madara. hahhaha that was a really pitiful argument hahahaha

 

[Blaze Release]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

Did I say you were wrong? I said,

Kishimoto, Manga, Databook >>> You

And when did i say, Me >>>>>>>> Kishimoto, Manga, Databook

 

[lonewolf77766]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

And when did i say, Me >>>>>>>> Kishimoto, Manga, Databook

No, what I meant is you're opinion is not credible because you don't have source to back it up.

 

[Blaze Release]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

No, what I meant is you're opinion is not credible because you don't have source to back it up.

Ow but i do. I can upload you many examples from stats to databook description of techniques that contradict the manga. My so called opinions i do not pull from thin air but rather straight from the manga

 

[lonewolf77766]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

Ow but i do. I can upload you many examples from stats to databook description of techniques that contradict the manga. My so called opinions i do not pull from thin air but rather straight from the manga

But Hiruzen>>>Hashi is as clear as water.

 

[l3m0npl3dg3]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

I dont think kishi knows how hot these flame wars get or he might not give a **** but imo he has to have a flashback sparring match between the two to show who is the best

 

[Blaze Release]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

But Hiruzen>>>Hashi is as clear as water.

Tell me something i dont know;

Was about to flame you but i agree this hype that his fanboys use is starting to get on my nerves. Every strong character has gotten hype, it just so happens that he shares his nickname with the sage. We shouldnt get ahead of ourselves though because he clearly isnt in that league nor in the league of the current crop of ninja's.

I also believe that people dont understand why hiruzen is the strongest hokage and im thinking about making a thread. Basically this is why hiruzen is the strongest hokage. He was trained by both the 1st and second hokage who were leaders of the senju and that clan was said to be a clan with a 1000 skill (or some shit like that). If you notice hashirama had loads of scroll, scrolls that if you are elected hokage you are entitled to and i believe one of those scrolls is what naruto stole at the beginning of the series.

Now Hiruzen being a part of the sarutobi clan who were said to have natural talent in learning ninjutsu fast, its reasonable to say due to his old age, plus this natural ability he has mastered all the scrolls/ninjutsu's that existed in konoha. He has done something that not even his 2 former masters did in their life time. Further more if you look at the db he is the only person, yes only person to get a 5/5 for all 3 forms of ninja art and this speaks volumes. No wonder he was called the professor.

Now because he was the student of the 2 hokages he knows their techniques very well, so much so that if he was to fight them he would be able to counter and we saw this. The weakness of the Kokuangyo no Jutsu is that apart from the eye sight being taken away from you, all your othe senses are there and because hiruzen being the student of the 1st knew of this technique and its weakness he used his nose (sense of smell) to track hashirama;

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Secondly Enma is a good counter for mokuton and we have seen this. Hashirama used the same technique as edo madara when he first used the mokuton. The technique was Mokuton Hijutsu: Jukai Kotan. Enma not only made mokuton look like a twig it also protect hiruzen;

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Tobirama being a master of suiton jutsu. Hiruzen knew this and was able to counter his Suiton suiryudan, with doton doryuuheki;

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

The reason why Hiruzen is the strongest hokage is NOT solely based on raw power but knowledge on his counterparts to defeat them in a fight. Its his knowledge on his teachers abilities that will allow him to defeat them in a fight thats why he is strongest amongst them. Note the word amongst them because i believe people dont understand this.

If we were to give hashirama and hiruzen 10 top shinobi's to fight in a 1 vs 1 situation, i believe hashirama would win majority of his fights and i cannot say the same for hiruzen. So whilst hiruzen is the strongest hokage due to his knowledge on his former teachers, if we were to take this a step further and place them both outside the criteria of hokage hashirama is stronger, but if were to revert this and place them in the criteria of hokage hiruzen is stronger

 

[Taiketsu Yagami]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

hashirama>hiruzen

hiruzens hype-lets start out with hiruzens hype. he was stated to be the strongest kage, the professor, and mastered all of konohas jutsu at one point.

hashiramas hype- now for hashiramas hype. hashiramas strength was stated to be a myth, a fairy tail like the sage of six paths. he was also called the strongest shinobi. it was also stated that hashiramas might was so vast that no shinobi from the current era could stand up to his power. that means that hashirama>every other shinobi except edo madara.

explaining the hype-we will get back to hashiramas hype. hiruzen was stated to be the strongest kage. nobody at the time from when hiruzen was getting all his fame(which was his prime) knew about or believed in hashiramas strength. hashiramas strength was considered a myth.

now lets define myth:
a traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, especially one that is concerned with deities or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature.

so the people that tried to tell the future generations about hashiramas strength were dismissed because nobody thought a shinobi could be so strong. this is supported by the manga because hashiramas strength was considered a myth, a fairy tail like rikudo sennin. does everyone believe in the sage. nope.

Feats- now lets get to their feats. hiruzen is severely outclassed in this department. hashirama defeated ems madara with the kyuubi. ems madara by himself is one of the strongest characters in the narutoverse. combine this with the fact that he had the kyuubi by his side which is the strongest tailed beast, then you can see why hashiramas strength was considered a myth. hiruzen had to pull out reaper death seal on a nerfed edo hashirama and edo tobirama who were stated by orochimaru to be toying with hiruzen. while hiruzen very well may be much stronger in his prime, his hype and feats put him nowhere near hashiramas level.

databooks- databooks have been wrong on multiple occasions like saying orochimaru invented edo tensei and saying naruto and sakura were equals. the info in these can be faulty and it is outdated. how long has it been since kishi has released a databook? not recently.

conclusion- people from the future generations that heard of hashiramas strength considered his strength a myth. people believed that hiuzen was the strongest didnt believe in hashiramas strength. they reasoned that hiruzen was the strongest because that was what they saw and hiruzen>hashirama is what seemed reasonable to them because hashiramas strength seemed to exaggerated.
hashirama>hiruzen

Databooks get updated... Until Kishi updates the databook saying Hashirama was the strongest kage, then ur post can be considered fact.

 

[Hipster Madara]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

it is flawed.....
kishi has contradicted himself a lot, seeing as his ideas changed in part 2.
This has nothing to do with Hiruzen > or < Hashirama so stop creating flame wars...

 

[stoikis]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

hiruzen>hashirama

 

[wyliejl]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

But Hiruzen>>>Hashi is as clear as water.

If Hiruzen was has strong as everyone says why ant anyone being compared to his strength and not the 1st and 4th?????

 

[james the fourth]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

hiruzen was called the strongest early pt 1, i don't think he realized there would be a part 2 or knew where he was going with the story at that point. He's only human guys, he's bound to contradict himself.


Imo hype aside, hashi stomps hiruzen.

Hashi has as much hype as hiruzen, with better feats (through edo madara)

thank you

 

[markdabomb22]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

You must be registered for see images

Read the name of the author.... nuff said

 

[james the fourth]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

You must be registered for see images

Read the name of the author.... nuff said

that was a failed attempt at trying to act cool.

U_U

 

[markdabomb22]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

that was a failed attempt at trying to act cool.

U_U

And this thread was a cry for attention :sy: