Hiruzen

[Kratos of cruxis]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

sigh... not true it states their is no defence against kamui yet their is?? what does that tell you? kishi doesnt think his plan through all the way just like amatersu because it isnt as hot as the sun.

he also said tobi is madara yet who came out the coffin?

I think he ment if kamui successfully hits a person there is no defence that can stop the warping because there really isnt any character that has anything to stop it other then tobi

And what do you think he was suppose to write about tobi in the databook after he made him claim he was madara say he wasnt and ruin the plot twist long before he wants to

 

[svladcjelli42]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

The power levels are not inconsistent from part one to part two. There has not been power creep in Naruto. People arrive at the erroneous conclusion that there has out of faulty A>B, B>C, therefore A>C logic. This kind of reasoning is not valid when assessing a battle of ninja - there are just more variables than that. Example: 3 tomoe Sasuke > Deidara, Deidara > Gaara, therefore 3 tomoe Sasuke > Gaara. Another example: Sakura > Disease, Disease > Itachi, therefore Sakura > Itachi. It doesn't make any more sense (logically speaking) when A is Hashirama, B is Madara, and C is Hiruzen. The existing evidence indicates that Hiruzen would blow off Hashirama's leg with an explosive tag. Then again, maybe Hashirama can grow a leg back without Edo - the extent of his self healing ability is unknown, and could conceivably rival Tsunade's Byakugou.
Don't cry "plot no jutsu" or "kishi made a mistake" when the canon doesn't say what you want it to.

 

[Deadai]

Re: Hiruzen is the strongest after Current Naruto, Tobi and Edo-Madara,

Onoki was not alone while Hiruzen was alone. Numbers do matter in a fight. I doubt Onoki could last in that fight if the 4 Kages were not around. Onoki almost died fighting the Second Mizukage.



He failed to kill Hiruzen and destroy Konoha.

Onoki would still do a better job against Madara then Hiruzen would....hell why are we debating if if Hiruzen>Hashirama? when old man Onoki would curb stomp Hiruzen

 

[TheSages456]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

hashirama>hiruzen

hiruzens hype-lets start out with hiruzens hype. he was stated to be the strongest kage, the professor, and mastered all of konohas jutsu at one point.

hashiramas hype- now for hashiramas hype. hashiramas strength was stated to be a myth, a fairy tail like the sage of six paths. he was also called the strongest shinobi. it was also stated that hashiramas might was so vast that no shinobi from the current era could stand up to his power. that means that hashirama>every other shinobi except edo madara.

explaining the hype-we will get back to hashiramas hype. hiruzen was stated to be the strongest kage. nobody at the time from when hiruzen was getting all his fame(which was his prime) knew about or believed in hashiramas strength. hashiramas strength was considered a myth.

now lets define myth:
a traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, especially one that is concerned with deities or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature.

so the people that tried to tell the future generations about hashiramas strength were dismissed because nobody thought a shinobi could be so strong. this is supported by the manga because hashiramas strength was considered a myth, a fairy tail like rikudo sennin. does everyone believe in the sage. nope.

Feats- now lets get to their feats. hiruzen is severely outclassed in this department. hashirama defeated ems madara with the kyuubi. ems madara by himself is one of the strongest characters in the narutoverse. combine this with the fact that he had the kyuubi by his side which is the strongest tailed beast, then you can see why hashiramas strength was considered a myth. hiruzen had to pull out reaper death seal on a nerfed edo hashirama and edo tobirama who were stated by orochimaru to be toying with hiruzen. while hiruzen very well may be much stronger in his prime, his hype and feats put him nowhere near hashiramas level.

databooks- databooks have been wrong on multiple occasions like saying orochimaru invented edo tensei and saying naruto and sakura were equals. the info in these can be faulty and it is outdated. how long has it been since kishi has released a databook? not recently.

conclusion- people from the future generations that heard of hashiramas strength considered his strength a myth. people believed that hiuzen was the strongest didnt believe in hashiramas strength. they reasoned that hiruzen was the strongest because that was what they saw and hiruzen>hashirama is what seemed reasonable to them because hashiramas strength seemed to exaggerated.
hashirama>hiruzen

 

[lonewolf77766]

Re: Hiruzen is the strongest after Current Naruto, Tobi and Edo-Madara,

hiruzen overated
extremly overated
by the way new pcs 4 road 2 ninja

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Kishimoto >> Senju Sei's opinion

Onoki would still do a better job against Madara then Hiruzen would....hell why are we debating if if Hiruzen>Hashirama? when old man Onoki would curb stomp Hiruzen

Hiruzen is the strongest Kage, even Onoki knew this. And don't ignore the fact, Onoki almost died fighting the Second Mizukage. How would he do a better job alone if Onoki almost died fighting an inferior Kage compared to Hashirama. Also, Onoki was not alone fighting the Mizukage while Hiruzen was alone fighting Hashirama, Tobirama and Orochimaru. That alone speaks for itself.

 

[Kuro Tamashi]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

Lemme ask u This is Tobi Madara????

Well as of this moment for me yes. (not caught up on manga) but I know that madra and tobi arwnt the sme person and no one knows his true identity. He is obviously trolling everyone by saying he is. But what if he is a form of madra. Think about you can split chakra. Maybe madra did before he died and the edo madra is unaware of it at this point. But until kishi tells me otherwise I go with what he says. My opinions on the story have mo real effect of how it really is. Thats why I try to avoid over hyping or underestimating characters ability. I try to keep middle ground and go off what I have seen and been told by kishi through the story. I mean honestly I think it would be a major twist if tobi = madara and edo madra realizes what he did in the past type of thing. And I could sound like a complete idiot to all of you. But I mean they did split the kyuubis chakra so its not impossible.

 

[Deadai]

Re: Hiruzen is the strongest after Current Naruto, Tobi and Edo-Madara,

Kishimoto >> Senju Sei's opinion



Hiruzen is the strongest Kage, even Onoki knew this. And don't ignore the fact, Onoki almost died fighting the Second Mizukage. How would he do a better job alone if Onoki almost died fighting an inferior Kage compared to Hashirama. Also, Onoki was not alone fighting the Mizukage while Hiruzen was alone fighting Hashirama, Tobirama and Orochimaru. That alone speaks for itself.

I never said Onoki>Hashirama I said Onoki>Hiruzen I thing you some some things mixed up there lol. Btw your making the 2nd Mizukage sound weak which makes no sense...he had a draw with Mu whom was strong

 

[Kuro Tamashi]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

Actually, he was very correct in stating that. Regardless of what we think or theorize, only Kishi writes the story, and therefore, what he says goes. If he decides to list Kiba as the single strongest person in the continuity, he will have his reasons no matter what we think.

He is the author. He has that power.

Thats what im saying.

 

[lonewolf77766]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

hashirama>hiruzen

hiruzens hype-lets start out with hiruzens hype. he was stated to be the strongest kage, the professor, and mastered all of konohas jutsu at one point.

hashiramas hype- now for hashiramas hype. hashiramas strength was stated to be a myth, a fairy tail like the sage of six paths. he was also called the strongest shinobi. it was also stated that hashiramas might was so vast that no shinobi from the current era could stand up to his power. that means that hashirama>every other shinobi except edo madara.

explaining the hype-we will get back to hashiramas hype. hiruzen was stated to be the strongest kage. nobody at the time from when hiruzen was getting all his fame(which was his prime) knew about or believed in hashiramas strength. hashiramas strength was considered a myth.

now lets define myth:
a traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, especially one that is concerned with deities or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature.

so the people that tried to tell the future generations about hashiramas strength were dismissed because nobody thought a shinobi could be so strong. this is supported by the manga because hashiramas strength was considered a myth, a fairy tail like rikudo sennin. does everyone believe in the sage. nope.

Feats- now lets get to their feats. hiruzen is severely outclassed in this department. hashirama defeated ems madara with the kyuubi. ems madara by himself is one of the strongest characters in the narutoverse. combine this with the fact that he had the kyuubi by his side which is the strongest tailed beast, then you can see why hashiramas strength was considered a myth. hiruzen had to pull out reaper death seal on a nerfed edo hashirama and edo tobirama who were stated by orochimaru to be toying with hiruzen. while hiruzen very well may be much stronger in his prime, his hype and feats put him nowhere near hashiramas level.

databooks- databooks have been wrong on multiple occasions like saying orochimaru invented edo tensei and saying naruto and sakura were equals. the info in these can be faulty and it is outdated. how long has it been since kishi has released a databook? not recently.

conclusion- people from the future generations that heard of hashiramas strength considered his strength a myth. people believed that hiuzen was the strongest didnt believe in hashiramas strength. they reasoned that hiruzen was the strongest because that was what they saw and hiruzen>hashirama is what seemed reasonable to them because hashiramas strength seemed to exaggerated.
hashirama>hiruzen

True, but Hiruzen beat Hashirama in a very disadvantage situation.

Manga Canon >>> TheSages456's opinions

 

[TheSages456]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

True, but Hiruzen beat Hashirama in a very disadvantage situation.

Manga Canon >>> TheSages456's opinions

you didnt read it did you?

 

[spokentruth]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

Well as of this moment for me yes. (not caught up on manga) but I know that madra and tobi arwnt the sme person and no one knows his true identity. He is obviously trolling everyone by saying he is. But what if he is a form of madra. Think about you can split chakra. Maybe madra did before he died and the edo madra is unaware of it at this point. But until kishi tells me otherwise I go with what he says. My opinions on the story have mo real effect of how it really is. Thats why I try to avoid over hyping or underestimating characters ability. I try to keep middle ground and go off what I have seen and been told by kishi through the story. I mean honestly I think it would be a major twist if tobi = madara and edo madra realizes what he did in the past type of thing. And I could sound like a complete idiot to all of you. But I mean they did split the kyuubis chakra so its not impossible.

u Say yes but then U Say Madara is not Tobi WTF YEs or No

 

[lonewolf77766]

Re: Hiruzen is the strongest after Current Naruto, Tobi and Edo-Madara,

I never said Onoki>Hashirama I said Onoki>Hiruzen I thing you some some things mixed up there lol. Btw your making the 2nd Mizukage sound weak which makes no sense...he had a draw with Mu whom was strong

Point is, don't give Onoki and each of the Kage fighting Edo-Madara too much credit because they're helping each other out, without each other they wouldn't last that long with Edo-Madara. Compared that to Hiruzen who was fighting on his own.

Do you think Onoki alone have enough chakra and stamina to lasts that long with Edo-Madara?

This is 5 Kage vs Edo-Madara, not Onoki vs Edo-Madara.

 

[Pavoneo]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

I like how because you put the words "overhype" and "Hiruzen" in the same sentence, you're going to get on hottest threads..

 

[naruttebayo]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

data book is not flawed the way we take the words from it make it flawed .

however hiruzen being strongest hokage is not data book fact , it is stated by iruka in manga . which may be wrong or right

however you should think over it that power scale in part 2 >>power scale in part 1
and things which happened already can't be changed .so problems remains the same

it all comes to fans then . and looks like hashi fans are greater in no. so hashi wins .

 

[lonewolf77766]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

you didnt read it did you?

I did read it, how about you? Can you accept fact or Canon-Manga?

 

[TheSages456]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

I did read it, how about you? Can you accept fact or Canon-Manga?

i already explained why hiruzens hype was false so can you accept facts?

 

[lonewolf77766]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

i already explained why hiruzens hype was false so can you accept facts?

How is it false if he beat Hashirama?

Hiruzen beat Hashirama >> TheSages456's explanation

Ok, both have hype but in action, Hiruzen beat Hashirama, that alone speaks for the explanation.

 

[TheSages456]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

How is it false if he beat Hashirama?

Hiruzen beat Hashirama >> TheSages456's explanation

Ok, both have hype but in action, Hiruzen beat Hashirama, that alone speaks for the explanation.

orochimaru stated that the kages were toying with hiruzen. orochimaru simply underestimated hiruzen and got hashirama sealed.

 

[Kuro Tamashi]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

u Say yes but then U Say Madara is not Tobi WTF YEs or No

As far as the anime has told me I am told it is madra. But from the treads ive seen its no. and like I said I feel it could be. As I explained with the chakra spliting. So it was obviously an opinionated yes.

 

[lonewolf77766]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

orochimaru stated that the kages were toying with hiruzen. orochimaru simply underestimated hiruzen and got hashirama sealed.

Why would he summon the Kages if Orochimaru was underestimating him?