Hiruzen Sarutobi: "The GOD of shinobi" arguments

who is stronger

  • Hiruzen (3rd Hokage)

    Votes: 239 33.8%
  • Hashirama (1st Hokage)

    Votes: 469 66.2%

  • Total voters
    708
  • Poll closed .

Supermacaquecool

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Re: Hiruzen's strength was measured by his jutsu

I understand your point. You should have used as example Shikamaru vs. Temari too, cause it's obvios that Shikamaru wasn't strong at all.
P.S. Be careful, you gonna be trolled and flamed.
 

Troyg39

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Troyg39

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Re: Hiruzen's strength was measured by his jutsu

I understand your point. You should have used as example Shikamaru vs. Temari too, cause it's obvios that Shikamaru wasn't strong at all.
P.S. Be careful, you gonna be trolled and flamed.
thanks. and yea i know, it's already started. but im glad someone understood
 

siyo

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Re: Hiruzen's strength was measured by his jutsu

According to the databook, Hiruzen is the strongest of the Hokage. I don't care what any character has to say, the databook>characters. Now that that's out of the way, I'm going to attempt to put an end to the Hashi vs Hiruzen debate. I'll probably fail though, but we'll see....

I would like to point out that being the strongest Hokage doesn't mean that he can nessecarily beat Harishima in a one on one fight. Allow me to explain.

Hiruzen, quite frankly, was the strongest Hokage for obvious reasons. He was nicknamed the professor and at one point knew every jutsu that existed in the Leaf. That would mean that he knew WAY more jutsu than Harishima did. He knew all jutsu from Harishima's lifetime and then some, basically 3 Hokage generations worth of knowledge.

In part 1, the idea that strength=justu mastered was heavily stressed through the main villian Orochimaru. In fact, I think the reason why Oro felt that being stronger=learning more jutsu is because his sensei, Hiruzen!, was considered the strongest because he knew more jutsu than anyone.

Now the reason I say that having "superlative strength", as Iruka put it, doesn't mean you can always beat your opponent, is because we've seen countless fights where weaker enemies won for reasons such as fighting style advantage, intelligence, or simply being able to hit the right jutsu at the right time. I have 2 examples for you:

Example 1: Rock Lee vs Sasuke.

When Lee fought Sasuke during the chunin exam extrance, Lee OWNED him. Now, clearly he wasn't stronger than Sasuke by any means. Sasuke had the sharingan, the chakra and the knowledge. But, as we learned though that chapter, Lee was simply too fast for Sasuke to avoid his attacks, even though Sasuke could see them clearly. Lee, a fighter with only Taijutsu, defeated a stronger Sasuke.

Example 2: 3rd Hokage vs Naruto.

Now this wasn't a fight, but Naruto still took down Hiruzen with a pretty pathetic jutsu. We ALL know Naruto was not stronger than Hiruzen in part 1, but this is exactly why I say that being stronger does not mean you can't get caught off guard by the right jutsu. Naruto took down Hiruzen with the sexy no jutsu, yes, SEXY NO JUTSU.



I know some of you are going "this doesn't mean anything" but you clearly see Hiruzen laying unconscious on the ground with a nosebleed. He's the 3rd Hokage, yet he got caught off guard by a jutsu like this. That's because it's not always about being stronger, but having the right jutsu in your arsenal.
Plus, this jutsu doesn't work on every male in the manga, as you see here when Konohamaru trys to use it on his sensei:



As silly as it sounds, This weak sensei avoided a jutsu that the 3rd Hokage fell prey to. But we all know Hiruzen isn't weak.

So there you have it, sorry it's so long, but I learned that you have really explain things on NB. Also, since Hiruzen knew more jutsu than Harishima, it's very possible he knew a jutsu capable of beating Harishima. No one really knows
You should have said databook and manga> baseless opinion.Both manga and databook are canon so you can't pick and choose between them.

Yes, Hiruzen was the strongest Kage of his era, strongest kage at the time of death, and the strongest Hokage.However you can't use ABC logic so we don't actullly know if he could defeat a guy like Minato(correct).Hashirama was his teacher and the youth surpasses the old, so Hiruzen should be able to beat him- but we don't know because we don't know anything about Hiruzens arsenal.

Btw, this thread will likely be trashed because we have a hundred of these threads.
 

Troyg39

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Re: Hiruzen's strength was measured by his jutsu

You should have said databook and manga> baseless opinion.Both manga and databook are canon so you can pick and choose between them.

Yes, Hiruzen is the strongest Kage of his era, at the time of death, and te strongest Hokage.However you can't use ABC logic so we don't actullly know if he could defeat a guy like Minato.Hashirama was his teacher, and the youth surpasses the old, so Hiruzen should be able to beat him- but we don't know because we don't know anything about Hiruzens arsenal.

Btw, this thread will likely be trashed because we have a hundred of these threads.
you didn't read did you. because what you said was basically the summed up point of the thread
 

Ogracio

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Re: Hiruzen's strength was measured by his jutsu

Your point about power=more jutsu is actually very well thought, the clear example is Orochimaru and I had never seen it like that before. Probably that is why he was calledthe strongest shinobi in part 1, because he had more jutsu than anyone an dprobably knew a lot of every known jutsu.
 

immortal sage

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Re: Hiruzen hype and Hashirama hype

i tried to say its a draw hiruzen fans wont take it...they make everyone else fodder and hiruzen beatsm anyone...would be suprised if they say hiruzen >so6p
yea i bet in this month well see some threads saying
hiruzen>so6p
hiruzen solos five kage and edo madera

seriusly why cant people just accept the facts and call it a tie
 
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LegendaryAce

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Re: Hiruzen hype and Hashirama hype

I had a dream that all fanboys will merge together and support naruto..if they had differences they would debate without flaming..i had a dream that everyone agreed that naruto is the best and so6p is god ...i have a dream that everyone would not get worked up over the manga until everything is shown...and then i woke up to NB
 

yeahhboi

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Re: Hiruzen's strength was measured by his jutsu

dude stfu, hiruzen was not the strongest hokage or kage, he was a lame ass who thought mastering simple jutsu make u powerful and in the end got his face creamed by orochimaru, look at tsuchikage who is way older than him and is practically soloing madara since the other kages are so useless, hiruzen sucks and i hate when dumbasses liek u try to hype him, the best thing jiruzen had as hokage was his gay monkey emna, even when the fox attacked, what did that loser do? cry for minato

he was no god of shinobi and was definitely not the strongest, anyone who thinks other wise is just plain retarded as ****
 

yousufnaruto

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Re: Hiruzen's strength was measured by his jutsu

you see i have already post a thread of this that strategy=== key to winning. It means that there is no matter how much powerful your opponent is you just need a good strategy to win.
 

Supermacaquecool

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Re: Hiruzen's strength was measured by his jutsu

You should have said databook and manga> baseless opinion.Both manga and databook are canon so you can't pick and choose between them.

Yes, Hiruzen was the strongest Kage of his era, strongest kage at the time of death, and the strongest Hokage.However you can't use ABC logic so we don't actullly know if he could defeat a guy like Minato(correct).Hashirama was his teacher and the youth surpasses the old, so Hiruzen should be able to beat him- but we don't know because we don't know anything about Hiruzens arsenal.

Btw, this thread will likely be trashed because we have a hundred of these threads.
I don't think so. Youth does not always surpasse the old. Under that logic you'd be saying that Tsunade surpassed Hiruzen wich is not true.
 

Ghostofthewind

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Re: Hiruzen's strength was measured by his jutsu

The problem with this thread is that it assumes Naruto has to make perfect sense and is free of contradictions.

Here's a great contradiction:
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Bee says genjutsu won't work on him because the 8-tails will bail him out but Kakashi says Tsukuyomi can't be stopped.

So it was stated that the 3rd was the strongest Hokage but Hiruzen wanted no part of Minato when Orochimaru tried to summon him. Then later it is stated the 1st was the strongest Hokage.

It's called poor writing.

Tsunade is running around with swords through her spine. WTF.

Naruto doesn't have to make sense. Let it go.
 
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