Who said Hiruzen was the strongest???
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Hipster Madara
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Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?
However, I'm not sure of the validity of using Edo Hashirama's mokuton for an argument as he was notably weaker in that fight.Also, I'm sure Hashirama would also know Hiruzen's weaknesses and strengths, although, of course, Hiruzen surely changed since Hashirama's death.
As for my opinion, I would like to see both of these hokages fight in prime before I judge.
I agree.
However, I'm not sure of the validity of using Edo Hashirama's mokuton for an argument as he was notably weaker in that fight.Also, I'm sure Hashirama would also know Hiruzen's weaknesses and strengths, although, of course, Hiruzen surely changed since Hashirama's death.
As for my opinion, I would like to see both of these hokages fight in prime before I judge.
LOL?
Baka Sennin
Active member
Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?
Hiruzen's hype is still> hashirama's hype. i have seen no real evidence that edo hashirama and tobirama weren't perfect edo tensei, in fact all quotes point to the contrary, orochimaru, kabuto, and the edo kage all said he perfected it. And that was a 'pathetic' hiruzen who incapacitated them, mind you.
it's clear that kishi massively upped the power levels in part2, so obviously when looking at part 1 one should use some common sense. Deidara looked stronger than anyone from part one in season 1 shippuden, we all know that's not the case and his databook scores confirms it.
in short, just like kishi fleshed out hashirama and tobirama in shippuden, not to mention orochimaru,jiraiya,tsunade,itachi,kisame, etcetc, he can flesh out hiruzen as well. Hiruzen adjusted for part2 and his prime would be better than virtually anyone. think jiraiya but way stronger.
until kishi comes out and says X hokage is stronger than Hiruzen, I won't believe it. And chances are, that one is going to be Naruto or Konohamaru, not Hashirama.
Hiruzen's hype is still> hashirama's hype. i have seen no real evidence that edo hashirama and tobirama weren't perfect edo tensei, in fact all quotes point to the contrary, orochimaru, kabuto, and the edo kage all said he perfected it. And that was a 'pathetic' hiruzen who incapacitated them, mind you.
it's clear that kishi massively upped the power levels in part2, so obviously when looking at part 1 one should use some common sense. Deidara looked stronger than anyone from part one in season 1 shippuden, we all know that's not the case and his databook scores confirms it.
in short, just like kishi fleshed out hashirama and tobirama in shippuden, not to mention orochimaru,jiraiya,tsunade,itachi,kisame, etcetc, he can flesh out hiruzen as well. Hiruzen adjusted for part2 and his prime would be better than virtually anyone. think jiraiya but way stronger.
until kishi comes out and says X hokage is stronger than Hiruzen, I won't believe it. And chances are, that one is going to be Naruto or Konohamaru, not Hashirama.
Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?
Hiruzen might be the strongest character without Kekkei Genkai, but there aremany characters who would beat him including Hashirama.
Hiruzen might be the strongest character without Kekkei Genkai, but there aremany characters who would beat him including Hashirama.
Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?
Kabuto never said it
Dan never said it
Madara never said it
try again...
I'll tell you what they said
Kabuto said people thought Hashirama's power to be unreal, and that THE SHINOBI ON HIS LEVEL AREN'T ALIVE ANYMORE
no where there is it saying hashirama was the strongest shinobi ever.. In fact it says there were other shinobi as strong as him..
Dan stated only Hashi can defeat Gai,, straight forward.
Madara stated the kage are weaker than hashi. Straight forward
For 7 years ago. Kabuto, dan and even Madara said it. Sorry, but that's the truth
Kabuto never said it
Dan never said it
Madara never said it
try again...
I'll tell you what they said
Kabuto said people thought Hashirama's power to be unreal, and that THE SHINOBI ON HIS LEVEL AREN'T ALIVE ANYMORE
no where there is it saying hashirama was the strongest shinobi ever.. In fact it says there were other shinobi as strong as him..
Dan stated only Hashi can defeat Gai,, straight forward.
Madara stated the kage are weaker than hashi. Straight forward
TheItachiUchiha
Active member
Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?
Hashirama gets praised in the show, Hiruzen gets praised on narutobase..
Hashirama gets praised in the show, Hiruzen gets praised on narutobase..
Hipster Madara
Active member
Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?
P.S
im not talking to you, Owarij >_>
I think you mean Madara. But to expand on this point, in naruto, you can't use the A>B>C thing. Hashirama had various advantages that made him the perfect enemy for madara. Just because Madara> Hiruzen doesn't necessarily mean Hashirama> Hiruzen. Many have said this before, so I don't understand the problem here.
P.S
im not talking to you, Owarij >_>
ReapTermin
Banned
Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?
Since Hiruzen is not alive, he can be considered stronger than Hashirama. Remember that Hiruzen is dead. There's a high chance that Hiruzen > Hashirama.
@Bold
Since Hiruzen is not alive, he can be considered stronger than Hashirama. Remember that Hiruzen is dead. There's a high chance that Hiruzen > Hashirama.
Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?
This
And This
Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?
Well guess what changed between part 1 and 2, well part 1 hiruzen was the strongest, part 2 he aint shit, even in part 1 hi said he was weaker than minato :shrug:
he never bested them, he never had a true fight, he sensed the danger, was wise and sacrified himslef dont give him unmerited credit...i mean he exchanged 2, 3 punches and then went for shiki fujin after being put in the darkness ? :shrug:
Dan lived in the era of the prime hokage ( hiruzen trained very young tsunade, and young tsunade felt in love with dan... ) and he still stated only hashirama could stop madara...
Bro seriously i respect evry argument you brought in each and evry vs thread, but you're a hiruzen fanboy :shrug:
Well guess what changed between part 1 and 2, well part 1 hiruzen was the strongest, part 2 he aint shit, even in part 1 hi said he was weaker than minato :shrug:
he never bested them, he never had a true fight, he sensed the danger, was wise and sacrified himslef dont give him unmerited credit...i mean he exchanged 2, 3 punches and then went for shiki fujin after being put in the darkness ? :shrug:
Dan lived in the era of the prime hokage ( hiruzen trained very young tsunade, and young tsunade felt in love with dan... ) and he still stated only hashirama could stop madara...
ReapTermin
Banned
Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?
Hashirama had info on Madara, because they fought multiple times. Hiruzen never faced him in battle.
Just because Hiruzen can't defeat Madara does not mean that he can't defeat Hashirama. Remember that Hashirama and Madara fought multiple times before their final battle, on what's now known as The Final Valley.
Hashirama had info on Madara, because they fought multiple times. Hiruzen never faced him in battle.
Migualon J.J.
Active member
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Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?
and Dan didn't live in Hiruzen's prime, GOD, Hiruzen was 20 years older than Tsunade, and Tsunade was most likely 25 - 27 when she fell in love with Dan, so Hiruzen was around 45 - 47, that ain't prime, his prime was when he was the best, which means around 30 years in most cases
um, exchanged 2 and 3 punches? you mean, for example blowing up Hashirama's leg and Tobirama's arm into pieces, YEAH, right, and where did Hiruzen say that Minato is stronger than himself?
and Dan didn't live in Hiruzen's prime, GOD, Hiruzen was 20 years older than Tsunade, and Tsunade was most likely 25 - 27 when she fell in love with Dan, so Hiruzen was around 45 - 47, that ain't prime, his prime was when he was the best, which means around 30 years in most cases
Hipster Madara
Active member
Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?
This has been in this thread like 9 times and ppl still don't get it :sy:
Out Of Ctrl
Active member
Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?
Heck even the Hokages themselves are having a go at each other
Hashirama
Hiruzen
Heck even the Hokages themselves are having a go at each other
Hashirama
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Hiruzen
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ReapTermin
Banned
Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?
They can't understand things unless they come from the Manga. Their loss. U_U
Blaze Release
Active member
Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?
Similarly for you sake of this argument lets assume hashirama's mokotuon werent that strong. That still means nothing enma in his transformed state, is said to be as hard as diamond therefore, it will still get past mokouton like a twig;
Tbh after carefully consideration the fight that took place in part 1 should convince people that sarutobi in his prime can/will defeat hashirama. The reason i saw this is because both obviously werent at their best. Hiruzen was an old fart and hashirama was not only being controlled, the controller oro didnt make full use of him. But hashirama still had tobirama and oro on his side and he was still defeated albeit in an edo state. The fight in part 1 you could say was scaled down version of what it would be like and although both were handicapped, sarutobi was alone, hahsirama wasnt.
Mokouton is mokouton and it came from the original source. Its true there werent used to their best and therefore didnt mount a serious challenge but their strength hasnt withered at all. Tobirama produced 2 suiton jutsus of the higest calibre in a place with no water, Suiton: Suiryudan no Jutsu and Suiton: Suijinheki. Similarly Hashirama used Mokuton Hijutsu: Jukai Kotan, the same technique edo madara used when he first used the mokouton. The strength was there, but oro didnt know how to utilise them or should i say hadnt perfected the technique.
Similarly for you sake of this argument lets assume hashirama's mokotuon werent that strong. That still means nothing enma in his transformed state, is said to be as hard as diamond therefore, it will still get past mokouton like a twig;
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Tbh after carefully consideration the fight that took place in part 1 should convince people that sarutobi in his prime can/will defeat hashirama. The reason i saw this is because both obviously werent at their best. Hiruzen was an old fart and hashirama was not only being controlled, the controller oro didnt make full use of him. But hashirama still had tobirama and oro on his side and he was still defeated albeit in an edo state. The fight in part 1 you could say was scaled down version of what it would be like and although both were handicapped, sarutobi was alone, hahsirama wasnt.
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Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?
The Thing is, Dan doesn't even know of Current Edo madara.
If he Does know of EMS/Wood/Rinnegan madara then Even hashirama isn't Beating him, So He's Wrong.
If he Doesn't and he Means EMS Madara, He is wrong Again, He has no clue of Any current Ninja's Strengths.
The Thing is, Dan doesn't even know of Current Edo madara.
If he Does know of EMS/Wood/Rinnegan madara then Even hashirama isn't Beating him, So He's Wrong.
If he Doesn't and he Means EMS Madara, He is wrong Again, He has no clue of Any current Ninja's Strengths.
Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?
When he did say that ? well here :
:shrug:
Hiruzen was stated to be ( strongest kage ) not hokage by kabuto, as for as iruka's statement it's his opinion and he was only boostin him infront of the academy kids, hiruzen said he's weaker than minato... + That statement was contradictory, hiruzen told him to not use past tense so whe means that he's still the stronger, than a few chapters later he states that even he cant match Minato...
Minato was STATED not said to have unrivaled strength when he appeared in the manga cover, that doesnt mean that he's the strongest, absolute statements don't exist when events are in constant evolution. ( arguing and conversation basics 1o1 )
And basiclly following what you said, hashi' and tobirama had their own reflexes in that fight wich means an exploding paper would kill 1st and 2nd hokage who stood against the uchiha and marara, i dont know man... those reflexes were like puppet reflexes.
Stop saying hiruzen would know hashi' weaknesses, cus hashi' would know hiruzen better as his master.
( dan lived in hashirama's prime, dan was 14 when 3rd was in his prime according to you so he witnessed his prime )
When he did say that ? well here :
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:shrug:
Hiruzen was stated to be ( strongest kage ) not hokage by kabuto, as for as iruka's statement it's his opinion and he was only boostin him infront of the academy kids, hiruzen said he's weaker than minato... + That statement was contradictory, hiruzen told him to not use past tense so whe means that he's still the stronger, than a few chapters later he states that even he cant match Minato...
Minato was STATED not said to have unrivaled strength when he appeared in the manga cover, that doesnt mean that he's the strongest, absolute statements don't exist when events are in constant evolution. ( arguing and conversation basics 1o1 )
And basiclly following what you said, hashi' and tobirama had their own reflexes in that fight wich means an exploding paper would kill 1st and 2nd hokage who stood against the uchiha and marara, i dont know man... those reflexes were like puppet reflexes.
Stop saying hiruzen would know hashi' weaknesses, cus hashi' would know hiruzen better as his master.
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Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?
Just think Hiruzen was hyped too much in part 1 of Naruto. Here I agree with Owarij when he says everyone got a power up in part 2 because of the way part 2 was made, but also the spread of Kishimotos hype was changed in part 2 and we should basically stick on it. In part 1 Jiraiya was also an equal to Itachi if we're going by Kishimotos hype in part 1, but yet part 2, where Kishimotos ideas are more mature, shows that Itachi is clearly stronger than him by feats and also by hype.
Of course Hiruzen is a very powerful Ninja and mastered all areas a Shinobi should have, but also Kishimoto placed other characters in the foreground in part 2 and gave Madara and Hashirama far more hype.
Hashirama taught Hiruzen, but due to his Kekkei Kenkai and medical skills, IMO Hashirama is superior to Hiruzen. He used the Mokuton and medical skills that were far above the level of the current best Ironin of the world. And special abilities like this are imo more important than being known for using 1000's of Ninjutsus - After all Kakashi can also use a bunch of Ninjutsus.
Just think Hiruzen was hyped too much in part 1 of Naruto. Here I agree with Owarij when he says everyone got a power up in part 2 because of the way part 2 was made, but also the spread of Kishimotos hype was changed in part 2 and we should basically stick on it. In part 1 Jiraiya was also an equal to Itachi if we're going by Kishimotos hype in part 1, but yet part 2, where Kishimotos ideas are more mature, shows that Itachi is clearly stronger than him by feats and also by hype.
Of course Hiruzen is a very powerful Ninja and mastered all areas a Shinobi should have, but also Kishimoto placed other characters in the foreground in part 2 and gave Madara and Hashirama far more hype.
Hashirama taught Hiruzen, but due to his Kekkei Kenkai and medical skills, IMO Hashirama is superior to Hiruzen. He used the Mokuton and medical skills that were far above the level of the current best Ironin of the world. And special abilities like this are imo more important than being known for using 1000's of Ninjutsus - After all Kakashi can also use a bunch of Ninjutsus.