Hiruzen (god debate)

[Thewargoeson]

that would give hiruzen all the more reason to do something. kurama was still and being held down in one spot. even with this opportunity hiruzen is still powerless. thank you for clarifying this

restrained kyuubi held down by gamabunta>>>>>>>>>>hiruzen

right here.

when did i say gamabunta>hiruzen. your grasping at straws now. you already lost the debate. minato didnt teleport kyuubi the moment gamabunta landed on it. gamabunta and minato were able to have a conversation in the time gamabunta was on top of kurama. minato also took the time to gather his chakra.

clearly it was fast enough so the tbb didnt go off.
how am i losing this argument?
u say im grasping at straws which wud imply im struggling to come up with an argument, which im clearly not. u say ive lost the argument and yet uve proven nothing?
and finally ur not even debating what this thread is about.
this thread is about how we cant determine who's stronger.
now ik what ur gonna say "hashirama took on madara and kyuubi while hiruzen cudnt even defeat kyuubi"
but do u remmember one of the biggest ideas founded in naruto base.
A>B>C logic doesnt work. hashi had the right abilities for tht fight.
it doesnt mean hiruzen is worse.

 

[TheSages456]

right here.

clearly it was fast enough so the tbb didnt go off.
how am i losing this argument?
u say im grasping at straws which wud imply im struggling to come up with an argument, which im clearly not. u say ive lost the argument and yet uve proven nothing?
and finally ur not even debating what this thread is about.
this thread is about how we cant determine who's stronger.
now ik what ur gonna say "hashirama took on madara and kyuubi while hiruzen cudnt even defeat kyuubi"
but do u remmember one of the biggest ideas founded in naruto base.
A>B>C logic doesnt work. hashi had the right abilities for tht fight.
it doesnt mean hiruzen is worse.

ah the old A>B>C logic doesnt work argument. hashirama and hiruzens abilities arent comparable in any way. a match up between them would be decided by raw power and the strength of their techniques. hiruzen can theoretically defeat the kyuubi but it would be a double KO. dead demon consuming seal.

 

[Thewargoeson]

ah the old A>B>C logic doesnt work argument. hashirama and hiruzens abilities arent comparable in any way. a match up between them would be decided by raw power and the strength of their techniques. hiruzen can theoretically defeat the kyuubi but it would be a double KO. dead demon consuming seal.

agreed tht it wud be up to raw power.
ur last point cnt be proven its jst assumption. but do u rly think hiruzen, the "god" of shinobi had no other options other than to kill himself? i highly doubt tht.
and who wud win in there fight cannot be determined bcuz we dont know who had more raw power. sorry we dnt. we've seen a little of each of their abilities.
tht is the point of this thread to prove tht we cannot determine who wud win

 

[TheSages456]

agreed tht it wud be up to raw power.
ur last point cnt be proven its jst assumption. but do u rly think hiruzen, the "god" of shinobi had no other options other than to kill himself? i highly doubt tht.
and who wud win in there fight cannot be determined bcuz we dont know who had more raw power. sorry we dnt. we've seen a little of each of their abilities.
tht is the point of this thread to prove tht we cannot determine who wud win

lets see. hashirama can create forests in an instant and can make mokuton clones that only madara can see through. the flower tree world puts you to sleep if you inhale the pollen. the scroll that contained 1000 jutsus that naruto stole was hashiramas. hashirama has advanced healing like tsunade and is also a weapons master.

lets see hiruzen. he was said to know and be able to perform all existing konoha jutsu. i guess hiruzen could use izanagi and izanami. this alone proves his hype is a lie so lets go with the jutsus we have seen including anime only techs.
Dead Demon Consuming Seal
Earth Release Shadow Clone (Anime only)
Earth Release: Double Suicide Decapitation Technique (Anime only)
Earth Release: Earth Dragon Bullet (Anime only)
Earth Release: Earth Flow River (Anime only)
Earth Release: Earth-Style Wall
Fire Release: Fire Dragon Bullet (Anime only)
Fire Release: Fire Dragon Flame Bullet
Roof Tile Shuriken (Anime only)
Shadow Clone Technique
Shuriken Shadow Clone Technique
Summoning Technique (Monkey King: Enma)

hashirama>>>>hiruzen

 

[Thewargoeson]

lets see. hashirama can create forests in an instant and can make mokuton clones that only madara can see through. the flower tree world puts you to sleep if you inhale the pollen. the scroll that contained 1000 jutsus that naruto stole was hashiramas. hashirama has advanced healing like tsunade and is also a weapons master.

lets see hiruzen. he was said to know and be able to perform all existing konoha jutsu. i guess hiruzen could use izanagi and izanami. this alone proves his hype is a lie so lets go with the jutsus we have seen including anime only techs.
Dead Demon Consuming Seal
Earth Release Shadow Clone (Anime only)
Earth Release: Double Suicide Decapitation Technique (Anime only)
Earth Release: Earth Dragon Bullet (Anime only)
Earth Release: Earth Flow River (Anime only)
Earth Release: Earth-Style Wall
Fire Release: Fire Dragon Bullet (Anime only)
Fire Release: Fire Dragon Flame Bullet
Roof Tile Shuriken (Anime only)
Shadow Clone Technique
Shuriken Shadow Clone Technique
Summoning Technique (Monkey King: Enma)

hashirama>>>>hiruzen

all hiruzen has to do is not breath long enough for him to take out the pollen (cud be done with a wind style which wud spray pollen away from him)
read the thread. i said he can use them all except KG. izanagi/izanami come from sharingan which is a KG.
no remember tht he can use ALL konoha ninjutsu.
tht wud include those in hashi's forbidden scroll.
ok? tht ddoesnt say anything. as a matter of fact tht helps my argument. the extreme diversity in jutsu. who knows what else he wud pull out. especially since he knows every jutsu in hashi's scroll.
so ill get back to my point.
we cannot determine who'd take this fight. both characters are to diverse and frankly we dnt know nearly enough about their techniques

 

[Owarij]

lets see. hashirama can create forests in an instant and can make mokuton clones that only madara can see through. the flower tree world puts you to sleep if you inhale the pollen. the scroll that contained 1000 jutsus that naruto stole was hashiramas. hashirama has advanced healing like tsunade and is also a weapons master.

lets see hiruzen. he was said to know and be able to perform all existing konoha jutsu. i guess hiruzen could use izanagi and izanami. this alone proves his hype is a lie so lets go with the jutsus we have seen including anime only techs.
Dead Demon Consuming Seal
Earth Release Shadow Clone (Anime only)
Earth Release: Double Suicide Decapitation Technique (Anime only)
Earth Release: Earth Dragon Bullet (Anime only)
Earth Release: Earth Flow River (Anime only)
Earth Release: Earth-Style Wall
Fire Release: Fire Dragon Bullet (Anime only)
Fire Release: Fire Dragon Flame Bullet
Roof Tile Shuriken (Anime only)
Shadow Clone Technique
Shuriken Shadow Clone Technique
Summoning Technique (Monkey King: Enma)

hashirama>>>>hiruzen

All it proves is that you can't read...

Hiruzen said he once was able to use all existing konoha jutsu..

Do you know what existing means? Do you know what past tense is?

jesus

 

[TheSages456]

all hiruzen has to do is not breath long enough for him to take out the pollen (cud be done with a wind style which wud spray pollen away from him)
read the thread. i said he can use them all except KG. izanagi/izanami come from sharingan which is a KG.
no remember tht he can use ALL konoha ninjutsu.
tht wud include those in hashi's forbidden scroll.
ok? tht ddoesnt say anything. as a matter of fact tht helps my argument. the extreme diversity in jutsu. who knows what else he wud pull out. especially since he knows every jutsu in hashi's scroll.
so ill get back to my point.
we cannot determine who'd take this fight. both characters are to diverse and frankly we dnt know nearly enough about their techniques

because not breathing worked so well for the kages right. you dont understand that the entire battlefield is covered with this pollen right. the manga specifically said that he knew and could perform all existing konoha jutsu. hidden techs from clans are jutsus he wont know. he wont know any uchiha jutsus. he cant use rasengan, raikiri. he cant use jiraiyas toad techniques. he cant use ftg. he cant use hyuuga techniques. you see where im going with this.

 

[TheSages456]

All it proves is that you can't read...

Hiruzen said he once was able to use all existing konoha jutsu..

Do you know what existing means? Do you know what past tense is?

jesus

izanagi and izanami were existing jutsus in konoha and your going to tell me hiruzen can use them. these jutsus existed way before hiruzen was alive and they were once a part of konoha when the uchiha clan were still around.

 

[Thewargoeson]

because not breathing worked so well for the kages right. you dont understand that the entire battlefield is covered with this pollen right. the manga specifically said that he knew and could perform all existing konoha jutsu. hidden techs from clans are jutsus he wont know. he wont know any uchiha jutsus. he cant use rasengan, raikiri. he cant use jiraiyas toad techniques. he cant use ftg. he cant use hyuuga techniques. you see where im going with this.

he doesnt have to hold his breat long. a wind style will one push pollen away and two push him away from the plants.
KG are not konoha techniques. they are clan techniques. which can only be done by members of the clan. it has nothing to do with anything konoha can create.
yes he cannot do toad summonings. but he can do summoning tecchnique. toads is jst one aspect of tht technique. since FTG, rasengan and raikiri are not techniques tht come from a specific KG so yes he cud use them.

 

[Owarij]

because not breathing worked so well for the kages right. you dont understand that the entire battlefield is covered with this pollen right. the manga specifically said that he knew and could perform all existing konoha jutsu. hidden techs from clans are jutsus he wont know. he wont know any uchiha jutsus. he cant use rasengan, raikiri. he cant use jiraiyas toad techniques. he cant use ftg. he cant use hyuuga techniques. you see where im going with this.

THE MANGA said he knew and could perform all existing konoha jutsu

HIDDEN techniques can be taught to anyone.. If you read the databook, you'd know , in early konoha they were taught to anyone.. clans decided to change that and teach them to clan members onliny..

Raikiri? are you dumb?

EXISTING Jutsu.. aka at a current time..

orochimaru talked in past tense.. when he got his title as professor he knew and could use all EXISTING konoha jutsu.. meaning not jutsu of dead people..
only those alive and at that time..

WHEN he got that title , kakashi wasn't even born yet..Raikiri? /sigh you poor soul..

 

[Thewargoeson]

izanagi and izanami were existing jutsus in konoha and your going to tell me hiruzen can use them. these jutsus existed way before hiruzen was alive and they were once a part of konoha when the uchiha clan were still around.

now whos grasping at straws?
u know very well tht no one except people in the clan can use a specific KG.
what they meant by every jutsu, is every one tht was a KG. if u dnt realize tht then im sorry i cnt help u

 

[TheSages456]

he doesnt have to hold his breat long. a wind style will one push pollen away and two push him away from the plants.
KG are not konoha techniques. they are clan techniques. which can only be done by members of the clan. it has nothing to do with anything konoha can create.
yes he cannot do toad summonings. but he can do summoning tecchnique. toads is jst one aspect of tht technique. since FTG, rasengan and raikiri are not techniques tht come from a specific KG so yes he cud use them.

no hiruzen cant use rasengan. the uchiha clan were part of konoha and the jutsus produced from the uchiha clan are part of konohas arsenal. hiruzen cant use any uchiha jutsus. hiruzen cannot use the nara clans shadow possesion or the akimichi clans expansion jutsus. he cant use any hidden techs passed down through clans.

 

[Owarij]

izanagi and izanami were existing jutsus in konoha and your going to tell me hiruzen can use them. these jutsus existed way before hiruzen was alive and they were once a part of konoha when the uchiha clan were still around.

NOONE in konoha had izanami and izanagi when hiruzen was given the title professor..

noone even had ms...
Do you not understand what existing means? honestly? wtf?


IT never said "He knew and could perform all konoha jutsu"

NO , only the people that were alive during the time he got the title... Who was alive back then? idk, Kakashi's father , danzo, people like that..

 

[TheSages456]

now whos grasping at straws?
u know very well tht no one except people in the clan can use a specific KG.
what they meant by every jutsu, is every one tht was a KG. if u dnt realize tht then im sorry i cnt help u

im simply using your manga hype argument against you. you are hurting your own argument. the manga said that he was able to use very single existing konoha jutsu.

 

[Thewargoeson]

no hiruzen cant use rasengan. the uchiha clan were part of konoha and the jutsus produced from the uchiha clan are part of konohas arsenal. hiruzen cant use any uchiha jutsus. hiruzen cannot use the nara clans shadow possesion or the akimichi clans expansion jutsus. he cant use any hidden techs passed down through clans.

sigh are u even reading what im writing?
ill say it as clearly as possible.
KG techniques are not konoha techniques. things tht require a specific leniege (family) to use are not konoha techniques no matter where they are.
everything ur saying is not only wrong, its also completely irrelevant to my thread. just so uk.
and who says he cant? naruto learned it as a child. why cudnt hiruzen?

 

[Thewargoeson]

im simply using your manga hype argument against you. you are hurting your own argument. the manga said that he was able to use very single existing konoha jutsu.

ok ill say it again. KG techniques are not village techniques. they are singular to tht clan which makes them a clan technique. not a village technique. and hiruzens hype was; he knows all existing konoha techniques

 

[TheSages456]

NOONE in konoha had izanami and izanagi when hiruzen was given the title professor..

noone even had ms...
Do you not understand what existing means? honestly? wtf?


IT never said "He knew and could perform all konoha jutsu"

NO , only the people that were alive during the time he got the title... Who was alive back then? idk, Kakashi's father , danzo, people like that..

izanami and izanagi were still existing jutsus. just because no uchihas wanted to use it(for obvious reasons) doesnt mean they didnt exist. uchihas were still a part of konoha when hiruzen was hokage in his prime state.

 

[TheSages456]

ok ill say it again. KG techniques are not village techniques. they are singular to tht clan which makes them a clan technique. not a village technique. and hiruzens hype was; he knows all existing konoha techniques

the uchiha clan were in the village and that makes them part of konoha. all their techniques are part of konohas arsenal:|. the uchiha are the ones that developed them. just because only the uchiha can use them doesnt mean they arent part of konoha.

 

[Owarij]

izanami and izanagi were still existing jutsus. just because no uchihas wanted to use it(for obvious reasons) doesnt mean they didnt exist. uchihas were still a part of konoha wYhen hiruzen was hokage in his prime state.

You need SENJU dna to use izanagii.. It was not existing.. gtfo
Izanami either needs senju dna or ms..

You have no argument what so ever..

i'll come back to this thread later.. it's 2:18 in the morning

 

[Thewargoeson]

the uchiha clan were in the village and that makes them part of konoha. all their techniques are part of konohas arsenal:|. the uchiha are the ones that developed them. just because only the uchiha can use them doesnt mean they arent part of konoha.

sigh yes they are in the village. but the fact tht only uchiha can use the techniques means tht its an uchiha technique not a konoha technique.
and i will say it again. nothing ur arguing right now is relevant to my thread. so what if he cnt use uchiha techniques? r u saying kishi lied? r u saying he said tht hiruzen cud use all konoha techniques jst to turn around and say he's lying. ya i dnt think so. uk hashi cudnt use uchiha or hyuuga techniques either