What you say makes sense. Let's assume that Tobi can phase through gravity and levitate. Can you explain why during the Konan fight Tobi didn't just stop himself from falling deeper into the middle of the ocean? The deeper Tobi fell the longer he would be stuck in the explosion. The moment that Tobi realized that the water was covered in explosive tags he should have levitated so only a small portion of the exploding tags on top of the ocean would explode then he could phase through them.
If Tobi can manipulate gravity in the air then he could fly in all directions like the way Tobi moves underground in all directions. If it's easier to manipulate gravity in the air then it would be easier for Tobi to fly in the air than to move underground.
The konan fight is irrelevant -_- u need to stop clinging to one fight -_- tobi is a smart guy... if he wants to fall then he can -_- there doesnt have to be a big reason why he did it he just did -_- we all know that he has some sort of gravity manipulation and can phase through god realm pains attacks -_- which is pretty much what the whole point of your thread was about, right now your just trying to cling to whatever is left of your argument by going on about the konan fight -_- I give up arguing, im to tired to bother coz your not going to listen -_-
The konan fight is irrelevant -_- u need to stop clinging to one fight -_- tobi is a smart guy... if he wants to fall then he can -_- there doesnt have to be a big reason why he did it he just did -_- we all know that he has some sort of gravity manipulation and can phase through god realm pains attacks -_- which is pretty much what the whole point of your thread was about, right now your just trying to cling to whatever is left of your argument by going on about the konan fight -_- I give up arguing, im to tired to bother coz your not going to listen -_-
The Konan fight is the reason why I started this thread. Explain to me how the Konan fight is irrelevant. All you're saying is Tobi wants to fall without providing a reason. You can't counter my argument so you say that it's irrelevant. If you can't counter my argument then you should stop debating this with me.
The Konan fight is the reason why I started this thread. Explain to me how the Konan fight is irrelevant. All you're saying is Tobi wants to fall without providing a reason. You can't counter my argument so you say that it's irrelevant. If you can't counter my argument then you should stop debating this with me.
I knew it -_- cant just let it go -_- THERE DOES NOT HAVE TO BE A REASON! HE FELL BECAUSE HE OBVIOUSLY WANTED TO! IT IS LIKE 2 SQUARES IN A PAGE OF THE MANGA THAT U ARE ARGUING ABOUT! NOT EVERY SINGLE LITTLE PICTURE HAS TO BE JUSTIFIED! IT IS THERE BECAUSE IT JUST IS! -_- jeez -_-
Chibaku Tensei is an extremely intensive exercise. I doubt Nagato would or even could carry on in such a futile exercise for five minutes. Also, why would Tobi hang around during that time. He has five whole minutes to leave the area.
Why does anyone think C4 or Jinton could affect him? They can't if he's intangible. Those attacks are powerful physical attacks at the cellular and molecular level respectively. They are no different from the larger physical attacks he's already avoided like an ocaen of explosion from paper tags and he may have even survived C4 already. He most certainly wanted to observe Sasuke's fight against Deidara and Zetsu wasn't around so he definitely didn't leave until the end which is why a few Akatsuki bar Zetsu thought he had died when he simple waltzed through C4 and C0.
Nagato is said to have a large amount of chakra so it might be possible for him to keep Chibaku Tensei active for five minutes or more but we will never know for sure since it's never been done so let's not argue about that. If by leaving the area you mean teleport then that leaves Tobi vulnerable for an attack because he materializes when he teleports. When I say attack, I mean the summons could. Again, these are just possibilities so even if you debate about them you can never truly know the answer until it actually happens.
The Earth's gravity affects Tobi physically during his fight with Konan while Tobi was intangible but he was still falling in the middle of the ocean. Shinra Tensei, Banshō Ten'in, and Chibaku Tensei are based on gravity so logically they should work.
I knew it -_- cant just let it go -_- THERE DOES NOT HAVE TO BE A REASON! HE FELL BECAUSE HE OBVIOUSLY WANTED TO! IT IS LIKE 2 SQUARES IN A PAGE OF THE MANGA THAT U ARE ARGUING ABOUT! NOT EVERY SINGLE LITTLE PICTURE HAS TO BE JUSTIFIED! IT IS THERE BECAUSE IT JUST IS! -_- jeez -_-
And that's where our opinions differ. I take into account every detail while you don't. So this argument can never be decided. It was nice debating with you. You pointed out some things that I did not realize so thank you. Peace.
There's no way these attacks could hit Tobi, that would mean that the ninjutsu would have to phase through Tobi's projection and magically impact Tobi's body in his pocket dimension.
I've read all of the posts in this thread and understand the OP, but the fact is that the OP ignores what we already know about Tobi's s/t dojutsu. The only point that makes sense is that chibaku tensei would crush Tobi if he tried to warp out of it... assuming that the jutsu was fully formed with Tobi already in the centre- a ridiculous scenario based on the fact that an intangible projection of Tobi is unaffected by CT. Intangible Tobi could stand on the ground below the CT and look up at it without being drawn in.
While intangible Tobi can appear to levitate. But he isn't really levitating because he isn't there.
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The sfx are 'floating'. Tobi can float in the air.
If Tobi was being pulled by Earth's gravity while intangible during the Konan fight then why can't the gravity from Chibaku Tensei pull Tobi in while he's intangible? Tobi was NOT going intangible in the manga page you showed. Tobi was teleporting in that page. When Tobi teleports his whole body is sucked into his right eye and that's why his feet were being lifted off the ground. If Tobi isn't really there then how was the gravity pulling him during the Konan fight? If Tobi can float then why didn't he float while he was falling into the middle of the ocean to avoid falling deeper into the paper bombs? Can you explain that?
Tobi is affected by gravity even when intangible. If Tobi is able to phase through gravity then he would float in the air every time he uses his ability. I know that Tobi is not using chakra control on his feet to remain grounded because when he fought Konan even though he was phasing through the explosive tags he was still being pulled down by the gravity of the Earth.
perhaps he was falling with style? honestly i don't know if the dust release technique doesn't work it appeared it didn't or kishi's plot no justu saved Sasuke w/ Tobi ignoring Tobis jutsu weakness cause at the time it didn't have any...(dust release)which is a particle thing maybe shinra tensei would not work like how Flash can vibrate his molecules through walls. If theres a Kishi theres a way to make Tobi OP
after reading this thread, all i can say is damn yall can argue xd
now heres my understanding
the intangible ability -
tobi needs to have constant gravitational control of himself while intangible, because gravity is constant,If not he would , as stated, fall through the earth. and given that weve seen him raise and lower himself out of solid objects while intangible we can deduce that he also has directional control while intangible, meaning he can overcome gravity's natural pull towards the center of the earth at will
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what this also means coincidentally is that if hes able to manipulate his body while intangible then he can do it regardless of the material around him, be it air, water, or solid rock. so theoretically , if he chose, while intangible, he could float mid air at his leisure and have directional control over his intangible body. he may not be outright flying but he definitely is under his own control gravitational wise at all times while intangible.
the conan confrontation -
in reference to the konan fight, i simply believe he wanted to make konan think she won by allowing the fullness of her trap to follow through and using izanagi to escape it to take her by surprise after. so he would need to be in the grit of the explosions the entire time or she would stop the technique. she states she had enough paper bombs for 10 minutes, tobi can only stay intangible for roughly 5. I believe he wanted her to exhaust the paper bomb supply and her chakra before confronting her again, effectively debunking her trump card, at the cost of an eye.
gravity techniques -
with regards to the gravity manipulation techniques of deva path, depending on whether tobi is just reorganizing his molecules to phase through material or if hes actually a projection from his pocket dimension as some of you have stated[ i really dont know, could be either or], i think deva's techs would either have some or no effect on him
-some if hes still on our plane of existence and his body is physically phasing through material because that would not diminish his mass nor the effect of shinra/chibaku tensei on his mass
-none if hes indeed projecting himself from a pocket dimension then these gravity techniques would have no effect on him once or ever, given they have no mass to push or pull against. and if this is the case then its not gravity control hes demonstrating, but rather projection that he controlled, making all this talk about gravity relatively useless.
that said, i do think given his gravitational control over his intangible self, if his body was still on this plane and indeed could be affected by deva's techs then he would also be able to compensate for the gravitational disturbance caused by the techniques much like he compensates for the gravitational pull of the earth at all times while he is intangible
i do not think chibaku tensei would pull him in but i do not know to what degree he can control his "self gravity" but i have to assume its pretty substantial, and i do think shinra tensei would knock him down given how sudden it may come and how difficult it would be to compensate for such a violent gravitational force, but that would be the end of the tech's effect on him given hes intangible and cant be injured.
after reading this thread, all i can say is damn yall can argue xd
now heres my understanding
the intangible ability -
tobi needs to have constant gravitational control of himself while intangible, because gravity is constant,If not he would , as stated, fall through the earth. and given that weve seen him raise and lower himself out of solid objects while intangible we can deduce that he also has directional control while intangible, meaning he can overcome gravity's natural pull towards the center of the earth at will
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what this also means coincidentally is that if hes able to manipulate his body while intangible then he can do it regardless of the material around him, be it air, water, or solid rock. so theoretically , if he chose, while intangible, he could float mid air at his leisure and have directional control over his intangible body. he may not be outright flying but he definitely is under his own control gravitational wise at all times while intangible.
the conan confrontation -
in reference to the konan fight, i simply believe he wanted to make konan think she won by allowing the fullness of her trap to follow through and using izanagi to escape it to take her by surprise after. so he would need to be in the grit of the explosions the entire time or she would stop the technique. she states she had enough paper bombs for 10 minutes, tobi can only stay intangible for roughly 5. I believe he wanted her to exhaust the paper bomb supply and her chakra before confronting her again, effectively debunking her trump card, at the cost of an eye.
gravity techniques -
with regards to the gravity manipulation techniques of deva path, depending on whether tobi is just reorganizing his molecules to phase through material or if hes actually a projection from his pocket dimension as some of you have stated[ i really dont know, could be either or], i think deva's techs would either have some or no effect on him
-some if hes still on our plane of existence and his body is physically phasing through material because that would not diminish his mass nor the effect of shinra/chibaku tensei on his mass
-none if hes indeed projecting himself from a pocket dimension then these gravity techniques would have no effect on him once or ever, given they have no mass to push or pull against. and if this is the case then its not gravity control hes demonstrating, but rather projection that he controlled, making all this talk about gravity relatively useless.
that said, i do think given his gravitational control over his intangible self, if his body was still on this plane and indeed could be affected by deva's techs then he would also be able to compensate for the gravitational disturbance caused by the techniques much like he compensates for the gravitational pull of the earth at all times while he is intangible
i do not think chibaku tensei would pull him in but i do not know to what degree he can control his "self gravity" but i have to assume its pretty substantial, and i do think shinra tensei would knock him down given how sudden it may come and how difficult it would be to compensate for such a violent gravitational force, but that would be the end of the tech's effect on him given hes intangible and cant be injured.
Wow, you're the first person to actually provide a good counter argument about why Tobi was falling during the Konan fight. It was annoying me how everyone else who argues with me just completely ignore that fight and says it's irrelevant.
Now here is my counter argument to what you said about "the conan confrontation -". If Tobi's ability allows him to phase through gravity then he would have just made himself intangible and flew through the wall of water and paper bombs to a safer location and Konan would not even notice it because the explosions would be blocking her view. Tobi could just hold his breath and teleport while under water to a different location. Once Konan exhausted all her chakra then Tobi would teleport behind her and stab her. If Tobi did that then there would be no need to sacrifice an eye for Izanagi. Tobi didn't do any of that because he could not phase through gravity. That's why I think a gravity attack would still hit Tobi even if he was intangible.
If Tobi can defy gravity then explain the fight with Konan. My theory is that Tobi can only defy gravity while using it so phase through the ground but can't do it in the air that's why he didn't do it with Konan. Just because the majority agrees doesn't automatically make something correct. The majority can be wrong at times.
Wow, you're the first person to actually provide a good counter argument about why Tobi was falling during the Konan fight. It was annoying me how everyone else who argues with me just completely ignore that fight and says it's irrelevant.
Now here is my counter argument to what you said about "the conan confrontation -". If Tobi's ability allows him to phase through gravity then he would have just made himself intangible and flew through the wall of water and paper bombs to a safer location and Konan would not even notice it because the explosions would be blocking her view. Tobi could just hold his breath and teleport while under water to a different location. Once Konan exhausted all her chakra then Tobi would teleport behind her and stab her. If Tobi did that then there would be no need to sacrifice an eye for Izanagi. Tobi didn't do any of that because he could not phase through gravity. That's why I think a gravity attack would still hit Tobi even if he was intangible.
after re-reading the scene, i would say at this point
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he committed to Izanagi, after learning that she knew the limitations of his technique and he knew the sheer extent of hers , he felt like it was the route that warranted the least amount of risk,especially after she blew his arm off demonstrating she had a solid understanding of his techniques, its clear here
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that konan spent countless hours analyzing the techniques she knew about, mainly his intangibility, and s/t technique,and would probably have a contingency for the event that he tried to escape through the method you mentioned, i believe he simply chose a technique that she didnt realize he had to surprise her, thats all,
edit: so basically im saying initially he fell because he was trying to use his s/t transfer, he was materialized and gravity did its thing , then realizing he couldnt use his s/t technique, and went immediately to izanagi , which he has perfected, which she wouldnt expect
If Tobi can defy gravity then explain the fight with Konan. My theory is that Tobi can only defy gravity while using it so phase through the ground but can't do it in the air that's why he didn't do it with Konan. Just because the majority agrees doesn't automatically make something correct. The majority can be wrong at times.
after re-reading the scene, i would say at this point
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he committed to Izanagi, after learning that she knew the limitations of his technique and he knew the sheer extent of hers , he felt like it was the route that warranted the least amount of risk,especially after she blew his arm off demonstrating she had a solid understanding of his techniques, its clear here
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that konan spent countless hours analyzing the techniques she knew about, mainly his intangibility, and s/t technique,and would probably have a contingency for the event that he tried to escape through the method you mentioned, i believe he simply chose a technique that she didnt realize he had to surprise her, thats all,
edit: so basically im saying initially he fell because he was trying to use his s/t transfer, he was materialized and gravity did its thing , then realizing he couldnt use his s/t technique, and went immediately to izanagi , which he has perfected, which she wouldnt expect
I think we're going to have to agree to disagree at this point. Tobi did not try to escape with the method that I mentioned so we don't know if he actually could use that method or not and we also don't know if Konan would have had a counter for that if Tobi was able to use that method. My opinion is that Tobi could not use that method because his abilities did not allow him to. Your opinion is that he simply chose Izanagi because it was a better option. I'm going to keep my opinion mainly because when I think about it if Tobi had escaped through the wall of water and paper bombs then there is no way for Konan to see Tobi do it since she's not a sensor and I'm pretty sure her eyes can't see that deep into the ocean and through the explosions. I don't see any way that Konan could have countered Tobi if he did that.
I believe in my reasoning. If you want to prove me wrong then counter my argument. If you can't counter my argument then there's no need to reply with useless comments like "Believe what you want."
I think we're going to have to agree to disagree at this point. Tobi did not try to escape with the method that I mentioned so we don't know if he actually could use that method or not and we also don't know if Konan would have had a counter for that if Tobi was able to use that method. My opinion is that Tobi could not use that method because his abilities did not allow him to. Your opinion is that he simply chose Izanagi because it was a better option. I'm going to keep my opinion mainly because when I think about it if Tobi had escaped through the wall of water and paper bombs then there is no way for Konan to see Tobi do it since she's not a sensor and I'm pretty sure her eyes can't see that deep into the ocean and through the explosions. I don't see any way that Konan could have countered Tobi if he did that.
