facts about minato & tobi's fight

[phoenixwizard]

Well, Kushina DID just come out of labour so yeah. I think Tobi's chances against her were pretty good.
I don't think Minato is THAT amazing. But I have to admit Minato did make Tobi look less threatening when they fought.

 

[Beta1]

Disagree. I'm not flamíng or hating just saying what I think of this.


Tobi had to get minato away from his wife because he knew he would be able to beat him there. When they fought Minato had already used alot of chakra on transferring TBB and using FTG a couple of times on therefor Tobi thought he could take Minato. Tobi Had a HUGE edge on Minato. His wife had just given birth. Minato was probably very emotional because he just became a dad and now his newborn child wife and Village is in huge danger this probably made him lose focus a little sometimes. Yet he still stripped Tobi of Kurama and made him flee after beating him in 2 min. Yea he died but the 9-tails is the strongest of all the tailed beasts. He sealed the Kurama After he used FTG many times. Teleporting TBB and using Rasengan. After all that he sealed the Mother F*cking Nine tailed fox. He even send some of his and Kushinas chakra into Naruto so they could meet him.


People saying That the new Tobi can beat Minato is just plain stupid. It's like saying Kakashi is stronger than Naruto because Kakashi now can beat Naruto from 3 years ago.
Tobi had Several years to train while Minato was sealed.
Let's say Neji didn't train for the 2.5 years Naruto was gone. Then all of Narutos friends ( Lee, Kiba and all the others ) Would be stronger than Neji. There's no logic in comparing a guy who was sealed when he was young to someone who have trained for many many years.

 

[rai shado]

Okay, first of all, it is true that because of Tobi's actions Minato died. Because Minato decided to seal the kurama inside Naruto instead of killing it, which he had a choice to do, and which would have saved his, Naruto's, and Kushina's lives, he had to seal away part of Kurama since a baby couldn't have the entirety of the fox sealed inside it, Minato said that he could only seal half of it. By your logic however it was the So6P who killed Minato because he was the catalyst for creating the fox and all of ninjutsu. So please, stop talking your cause and effect bullshit.

Secondly, lets see what both sides lost. Tobi, who had been sitting and planning the attack for years, lost his element of surprise, he didn't finish any of his objectives and he nearly got killed, all he really had to lose in the first place was his life and plans. Minato on the other hand had much, much more to lose. It's true he lost his life and wife the lives of many villagers but he could have lost much more. By taking the actions he did he set in motion the defeat of tobi and foiling of his plans for yet a second a time, he also saved many lives that could have lost otherwise by keeping the balance of the tailed beasts. If he had just killed kurama then kurama would have come back later without a jinchurikki, which would have allowed for some other village to possibly take control and then leave konoha at a severe disadvantage, a disadvantage that would leave Konoha open for a major attack on the village itself thereby killing many more than they lost to the kyuubi. I could go on and on but I believe I said enough on what they lost so by percentage wise TOBI LOST MORE THAN MINATO, MINATO WON, NOW GET OVER IT YOU FREAKIN DUMBASS TOBI FANBOY!!!!!!!!

Now thirdly, we cannot take specific wording as absolute proof on a matter when said wording has been translated, i see mistakes in translation all the time, by the same translators. What we do know though is that taking kurama out of kushina did not kill her and that kurama's claw and minato sealing the rest of Kushina's chakra inside Naruto is what killed her. We won't know for sure if extracting a tailed beast is an automatic death sentence until Kishi comes out and says it himself.

Also, stop talking about facts when you yourself are only using opinion to support your claims, everything I stated is fact because it came from the manga, the only thing that should be trusted since it comes from Kishi directly, unlike the anime which is a piece of shit since they have dumbass filler arcs which destroy konoha and twist stuff that can actually have huge impacts later on in the series.

 

[Wakizashi]

generally you are right in specifics you are wrong.

1. he chose to die by sealing the kyuubi chakra in naruto.
2. he didn't kill kushina when he extracted the kyuubi because in the end she helped seal the kyuubi chakra.
3. tobi was forced to withdraw after foiling his plan to destroy the leaf with the kyuubi and loosing control of kurama.

 

[Rasenloki]

I only read the first few pages. The rest of the pages weren't worth reading IMO.

1. The jinchuuriki who died had to go through 3 days of it being taken out. Kushina herself didn't go through the 3 days of pain. So Kurama being extracted didn't kill her.

2. Fact about their fight. Minato was alive after Tobi ran away, so he won that fight. He lost against Kurama because that's the fight he died in. He chose to die to save his son, and the village.

3. We didn't even see all of Minato's abilities.

I'm not a fanboy, but I do give facts. Please consider them, instead of saying facts. You end most of your posts with FACTS, which is what everyone is giving.

stop overlooking me saying tobi is the catalyst for their death, if you do not understand what catalyst means please look it up,

Its actually not even a draw but because what minato was fighting to save was NARUTO. Sure he saved kushina but his immediate attention was naruto. Look at everything he did for naruto. Him and Kushina BOTH died for him. Sure she was already dead but the fact that she gave herself for Naruto means she died for him and so did Minato. If tobi had stopped the sealing of their chakra into Naruto THEN tobi would have one in a way but he didn't. Minato completely thwarted his plan in every way so he is the real victor.

actually all he did was prolong it, my post is not about why he and she made their choices, it's about a guy being able to put them into that situation in the first place you understand?

Disagree. I'm not flamíng or hating just saying what I think of this.


Tobi had to get minato away from his wife because he knew he would be able to beat him there. When they fought Minato had already used alot of chakra on transferring TBB and using FTG a couple of times on therefor Tobi thought he could take Minato. Tobi Had a HUGE edge on Minato. His wife had just given birth. Minato was probably very emotional because he just became a dad and now his newborn child wife and Village is in huge danger this probably made him lose focus a little sometimes. Yet he still stripped Tobi of Kurama and made him flee after beating him in 2 min. Yea he died but the 9-tails is the strongest of all the tailed beasts. He sealed the Kurama After he used FTG many times. Teleporting TBB and using Rasengan. After all that he sealed the Mother F*cking Nine tailed fox. He even send some of his and Kushinas chakra into Naruto so they could meet him.


People saying That the new Tobi can beat Minato is just plain stupid. It's like saying Kakashi is stronger than Naruto because Kakashi now can beat Naruto from 3 years ago.
Tobi had Several years to train while Minato was sealed.
Let's say Neji didn't train for the 2.5 years Naruto was gone. Then all of Narutos friends ( Lee, Kiba and all the others ) Would be stronger than Neji. There's no logic in comparing a guy who was sealed when he was young to someone who have trained for many many years.

his accolades were already duly noted in my main post and the post of his fans so posting them means nothing. the point is tobi set off the events that killed them is my point. minato did not defeat tobi he prolonged tobi's plans hence why naruto is kicking ass in the 4th great ninja war do you understand my point?

 

[babogee]

You talked about 'FACTS', 'CATALYST', & who actually won the battle:
Facts:
- Tobi planned and waited this for years to extract kurama and destroy Konoha.
- He was successful in extracting Kurama to Kushina. Tobi = 1
- He failed in destroying Konoha because of Minato. Tobi = 1
So to me they were even on this point. Tobi = 1 / Minato = 1

Catalyst:
- Tobi's action resulted to Minato and Kushina being dead in the end (but still not the end of the series).
- Minato forced, or should I say chosed to seal half kurama inside naruto (together with some of his and Kushina's chakra to meet naruto as he grows up) resulting to his and Kushina's death. Tobi = 1
- The couple saved the village from Tobi and kurama's rampage. Minato = 1
- And as we move on since we are talking about catalyst --> Naruto is way much stronger now because of kurama (Minato's action) and now fighting Tobi (not to further elaborate since most of you already knows what happenede during this time frame). Minato = 1
On this case, Tobi = 1 / Minato = 2

Who actually wins?
Before we can declare who the winner is, I guess we should understand first what is the main goal of the battle (especially Tobi who is the antagonist). Tobi's main goal is to capture kurama and destroy Konoha, to me that was his main goal and for us to say he actually won the battle, he must've successful to both. And as for the couple, their main goal is to save naruto and save the village. And you read the manga, he failed. Minato sealed the kyuubi and saved the village. It doesnt concern whether who loses more or less in a battle, but who actually realized the success of the plan. So Minato won this battle imo.

That's how i looked at it based on your argument.

 

[Wakizashi]

Who is Kuruma? Im pretty sure Naruto's mom's name is Kushina Uzumaki not Kuruma. Seriously

kurama is the name of the kyuubi

 

[Netsui]

Spoiler

stop overlooking me saying tobi is the catalyst for their death, if you do not understand what catalyst means please look it up,



actually all he did was prolong it, my post is not about why he and she made the
ir choices, it's about a guy being able to put them into that situation in the first place you understand?




his accolades were already duly noted in my main post and the post of his fans so posting them means nothing. the point is tobi set off the events that killed them is my point. minato did not defeat tobi he prolonged tobi's plans hence why naruto is kicking ass in the 4th great ninja war do you understand my point?

I give up on this thread. There's no more point after seeing all the posts and replies. Oh, and the whole he prolonged Tobi's plans hence why Naruto is kicking ass in the 4th great ninja war is the cause of one, very important thing. Plot-No-Jutsu! xd And I know what it means, so please don't tell me to look it up. -.-

 

[Kazekage35]

I only deal in facts stop making up feelings in your head. he's a villain he is suppose to play unfair. and like i said tobi killed her when took the biju. come with facts or move on.

He killed her when he took the bijuu? Then how was it that Minato sealed her chakra inside naruto? I might be mistaken but you can not seal someone's chakra if they are dead sooooo come up with some new facts

 

[Rasenloki]

Okay, first of all, it is true that because of Tobi's actions Minato died. Because Minato decided to seal the kurama inside Naruto instead of killing it, which he had a choice to do, and which would have saved his, Naruto's, and Kushina's lives, he had to seal away part of Kurama since a baby couldn't have the entirety of the fox sealed inside it, Minato said that he could only seal half of it. By your logic however it was the So6P who killed Minato because he was the catalyst for creating the fox and all of ninjutsu. So please, stop talking your cause and effect bullshit.

Secondly, lets see what both sides lost. Tobi, who had been sitting and planning the attack for years, lost his element of surprise, he didn't finish any of his objectives and he nearly got killed, all he really had to lose in the first place was his life and plans. Minato on the other hand had much, much more to lose. It's true he lost his life and wife the lives of many villagers but he could have lost much more. By taking the actions he did he set in motion the defeat of tobi and foiling of his plans for yet a second a time, he also saved many lives that could have lost otherwise by keeping the balance of the tailed beasts. If he had just killed kurama then kurama would have come back later without a jinchurikki, which would have allowed for some other village to possibly take control and then leave konoha at a severe disadvantage, a disadvantage that would leave Konoha open for a major attack on the village itself thereby killing many more than they lost to the kyuubi. I could go on and on but I believe I said enough on what they lost so by percentage wise TOBI LOST MORE THAN MINATO, MINATO WON, NOW GET OVER IT YOU FREAKIN DUMBASS TOBI FANBOY!!!!!!!!

Now thirdly, we cannot take specific wording as absolute proof on a matter when said wording has been translated, i see mistakes in translation all the time, by the same translators. What we do know though is that taking kurama out of kushina did not kill her and that kurama's claw and minato sealing the rest of Kushina's chakra inside Naruto is what killed her. We won't know for sure if extracting a tailed beast is an automatic death sentence until Kishi comes out and says it himself.

Also, stop talking about facts when you yourself are only using opinion to support your claims, everything I stated is fact because it came from the manga, the only thing that should be trusted since it comes from Kishi directly, unlike the anime which is a piece of shit since they have dumbass filler arcs which destroy konoha and twist stuff that can actually have huge impacts later on in the series.

we are speaking about a specific event in which tobi would be the catalyst for. we are not talking about the etymology of what's tangible to the story so stick to the subject matter at hand. your expanding a time line when we are clearly speaking about specific point of cause and effect.

No one on this post has been talking about anything animated, it's all manga so as stated above stick to topic and do not insert things we are speaking of in order to make a point. The topic is clearly about who lost more not why certain choices were made. yet again stick to the topic. futher more had you read the main post you would not have made the mistake of assuming i had any favorite chars. the name calling will get you no where, it's a F*#king cartoon so be easy. you want respect and a decent debate then show some or be ignored it's that simple.

 

[Rasenloki]

You talked about 'FACTS', 'CATALYST', & who actually won the battle:
Facts:
- Tobi planned and waited this for years to extract kurama and destroy Konoha.
- He was successful in extracting Kurama to Kushina. Tobi = 1
- He failed in destroying Konoha because of Minato. Tobi = 1
So to me they were even on this point. Tobi = 1 / Minato = 1

Catalyst:
- Tobi's action resulted to Minato and Kushina being dead in the end (but still not the end of the series).
- Minato forced, or should I say chosed to seal half kurama inside naruto (together with some of his and Kushina's chakra to meet naruto as he grows up) resulting to his and Kushina's death. Tobi = 1
- The couple saved the village from Tobi and kurama's rampage. Minato = 1
- And as we move on since we are talking about catalyst --> Naruto is way much stronger now because of kurama (Minato's action) and now fighting Tobi (not to further elaborate since most of you already knows what happenede during this time frame). Minato = 1
On this case, Tobi = 1 / Minato = 2

Who actually wins?
Before we can declare who the winner is, I guess we should understand first what is the main goal of the battle (especially Tobi who is the antagonist). Tobi's main goal is to capture kurama and destroy Konoha, to me that was his main goal and for us to say he actually won the battle, he must've successful to both. And as for the couple, their main goal is to save naruto and save the village. And you read the manga, he failed. Minato sealed the kyuubi and saved the village. It doesnt concern whether who loses more or less in a battle, but who actually realized the success of the plan. So Minato won this battle imo.

That's how i looked at it based on your argument.

Tobi has like 3 goals we have seen in the manga thus far lol, all minato did was prolong tobi's plans. saying you won and you died and all you did was prolong it and rest your hopes on others to me does not constitute a win.

He killed her when he took the bijuu? Then how was it that Minato sealed her chakra inside naruto? I might be mistaken but you can not seal someone's chakra if they are dead sooooo come up with some new facts

she is a uzamaki as stated by tobi and her vitality allowed her to hold on longer than your average host. we already posted the link in thread a few times.

 

[rai shado]

we are speaking about a specific event in which tobi would be the catalyst for. we are not talking about the etymology of what's tangible to the story so stick to the subject matter at hand. your expanding a time line when we are clearly speaking about specific point of cause and effect.

No one on this post has been talking about anything animated, it's all manga so as stated above stick to topic and do not insert things we are speaking of in order to make a point. The topic is clearly about who lost more not why certain choices were made. yet again stick to the topic. futher more had you read the main post you would not have made the mistake of assuming i had any favorite chars. the name calling will get you no where, it's a F*#king cartoon so be easy. you want respect and a decent debate then show some or be ignored it's that simple.

So you ignore everything that counters your argument, I clearly said who lost more, which was tobi because Minato had much more to lose, and also the decisions are quite crucial to this since thats what determines the winner. Now, again, since Minato had much more to lose and only lost a little of it, not even 25% of it and also gave the ability to counter Tobi yet again, and Tobi lost most of what he had to lose, which was his plans and his life, and yes, he nearly lost his life, he lost much more than Minato, I would say good 75%.

What you are experiencing at this moment btw is called confirmation bias, you are ignoring all facts that counter your argument yet accepting only those that are supporting it or even partial facts that support your argument so i would appreciate if you would stop being so close minded and listen to everybody elses arguments.

 

[10SinKiller]

stop overlooking me saying tobi is the catalyst for their death, if you do not understand what catalyst means please look it up,



actually all he did was prolong it, my post is not about why he and she made their choices, it's about a guy being able to put them into that situation in the first place you understand?




his accolades were already duly noted in my main post and the post of his fans so posting them means nothing. the point is tobi set off the events that killed them is my point. minato did not defeat tobi he prolonged tobi's plans hence why naruto is kicking ass in the 4th great ninja war do you understand my point?

Bold Part.

I get what your saying but tobi didn't put them in that situation. Minato chos the situation. The thing is, there are more ways Minato could have gone about this. He didnt have to seal himself, kushina or the tailed fox in naruto. He could have easily taken naruto and kushina somewhere safe then found another jinchurikki but he chose his own son. He chose to die along with kushina and seal the fox in naruto. Minato chose what he did. He wasn't cornered into doing so by tobi.

 

[rai shado]

Tobi has like 3 goals we have seen in the manga thus far lol, all minato did was prolong tobi's plans. saying you won and you died and all you did was prolong it and rest your hopes on others to me does not constitute a win.



she is a uzamaki as stated by tobi and her vitality allowed her to hold on longer than your average host. we already posted the link in thread a few times.

Tobi's only goal at the time was the destruction of Konoha and he thought that would be best accomplished with the Kyuubi. He didn't have the moon eye plan until recently which he came up with as a way to end the misery in the world.

As for kushina, look at my third argument in my previous post.

 

[Cursed Prince]

Tobi didn't actually kill her though?

IF that was Tobi, I know this a dumb question why did Kurama(nine tails) feel the REAL Madara Uchiha's Chakra as familiar? This is probably for a different thread, but i'm just asking

 

[babogee]

Tobi has like 3 goals we have seen in the manga thus far lol, all minato did was prolong tobi's plans. saying you won and you died and all you did was prolong it and rest your hopes on others to me does not constitute a win.

Yes, thus far... but as far as that specific event is concerned, his true intentions were to extract kurama and destroy konoha... we are talking about here about the subject you used in your thread, right? the facts about minato & tobi's fight?

So again, in that particular event in the series where two of them met and fought, Minato won because as i have stated (at least to me, cuz its my opinion), Tobi failed to realize his goals and objectives.

Yes it was prolonged, you said it yourself, so we cannot even declare Tobi won his battle against Minato because it was prolonged and no realization yet, right? We do not define a winner in a battle by only who got the damaged more or less, but by realization of the goal.

And constituting your hopes and win to other people (to his son Naruto in this case) equates to the catalyst you're also claiming.

 

[saskue base]

You know what's funny minato is dead and tobi isn't and tobi plans is still in motion so tobi lost but is still the winner

 

[rai shado]

You know what's funny minato is dead and tobi isn't and tobi plans is still in motion so tobi lost but is still the winner

Tobi's new plan is in motion and so is Minato's, Naruto is still alive and the Kyuubi host, is he not, if Tobi ends up defeated with Naruto alive then Minato wins, if Tobi's plans come to fruition then he will win, but until any of his plans fully succeed, he will not win and it will still be a stalemate since Naruto is carrying on Minato's plans.

 

[iamdsixth]

as i said before and will say for the last time, minato did not win a fight he died in and so did his wife. i never said tobi himself killed minato so don't put words in my mouth please. Tobi's actions were the catalyst for minato basically being forced to commit suicide. tobi killed the fourths wife when you think about it lol. It is obvious minato is skilled, i never doubted that. but when you put the fight into perspective minato is strong as H** but greatly overrated. Minato has only shown us that he can send objects to other special kunai, and he uses seals for speed. his reaction time is great but his raw speed with out justu is unknown.


During the fight with tobi minato did quickly figure out tobi technique (smart man). Yet during the very next move tobi figured him out but got countered and hit. that was the end of their fight but tobi had already basically killed minatos wife, and the biju tobi unleashed would in the end kill minato. so how is it that minato gets praised for such a epic fail? i understand folks like the char,but facts are facts. I have no favs i just enjoy the show as a whole

Tobi actually failed to beat the fourth. Wasn't his plan to take over the nine tails and destroy the Leaf? So he did get the nine tails out,but the fourth was able to realese it from Tobi's controll. Tobi retreated because he was blasted with a rasengan and was too injured to continue fighting the fourth.*
Would you have retreated if you can win the fight?
The nine tails was responsible for the fourth's and Kushina's death who Tobi realeased but was not under his controll anymore.
So the fight was actually Minato vs. Tobi then followed by Minato vs Kurama.
And since Minato used a considerably big amount of chakra on his fight with Tobi controlling Kurama, he did not have enough chakra to fight Kurama (uncontrolled)
Plus I wouldnt call it an "epic fail".
He fought two big fights in a row with his only goal was to protect the village,and he did.

Again,Tobi's plan was to extract and controll the nine tails then destroy the leaf and his plan did not actually fall in place. Anything after that rasengan was a different fight.*
Unless you can give us all proof that Tobi planned on releasing Kurama,make the fourth release it under his comand and *get himself blasted with a rasengan.
If you still think we should give Tobi credit for the Minato and Kushina's death ,

I want to give credit to the following.

Fugaku Uchiha & Mikoto Uchiha- credit for the massacre of the uchiha clan,*
Orochimaru's death, Deidara's death etc.
Because they are responsible for Sasuke and Itachi's existance.

Minato & Kushina-credit for beating Pain and countless villains in the story.
**because they are responsible for Naruto's existance.

Tobi is one bad a$$ shinobi dont get me wrong. But it is just unfair to give him that kind of credit againts the fourth.
Plus I do think that Minato is a little overrated specially with that "Flying Thunder God" tech that everyone claims unstoppable.*

 

[babogee]

You know what's funny minato is dead and tobi isn't and tobi plans is still in motion so tobi lost but is still the winner

Yeah, couldnt agree more... then this should go to different thread, not here... because this thread talks about the facts about minato and tobi's fight...

But then a lame respond though... peace bro!