Gaara vs Sasuke

[bpkiddo]

Poop response bruh. We're not talking about the real world, and Gaara really didn't have control. It's not an excuse of any kind, it's what happened in the manga. If you look at the current Gaara without the Shukaku you can clearly tell he's an entirely different character. As for who killed more, well, there's really no way to tell.

gaara had already changed and became the kazekage before the 1tail was extracted bro, that was a poop response young one:scorps:

 

[Cfighter]

Gaara deserves to be pardoned not only because of the "circumstances" you touched upon, but mainly because he at least came back from the darkness. After Naruto fought him, he saw the error in his way, and probably was punished for them, and then never stepped in the darkness again.

When Sasuke saw the truth however, he chose to step further into the darkness. That was his call. He knows the truth, and is not blinded anymore like Gaara was. Sasuke is a straight up criminal now.

 

[black uchiha]

Apart from going rogue,which is a crime.
Apart from trying to kill Yamato,Sakura and Naruto when they met him & Oro.

He did things which didn't affect just the leaf you know. That's why he's in so much poop. He's made attacks which would have been declarations of war,had he been operating under his villages command,such as attempting to take Bee.

It's not the fact that He's only affected one village,it's the fact he's affected them all.

1) He left to get stronger just like the 5th and j-man, granted it was with Oro but :shrug:
2) It was self-defense they attacked
3) He wasn't under the leaf's banner when he attacked bee/summit (as you stated)
4) He tried not to kill for the most part and even asked some not to get in the way....

Now I'm not saying he should be forgiven but his "crimes" could have been alot worse...

 

[Yo pappy]

Meh that sounds like bullshit to me. You could say sasuke is just as much a slave to the Uchiha Curse of Hatred as Gaara was to the Shukaku. The fact is they both killed people and enjoyed it.

The Uchiha "curse of hatred" is what sounds like bullshit to me, nothing but an excuse to act like a jackass. At least we have proof that the Shukaku existed, and his effects on Gaara were real. (in the manga anyway) The fact is that Sasuke, even now knowing the truth is still choosing to go down the wrong path. Gaara on the other hand didn't know what happened in his past up until the last couple of chapters, and he still chose to better himself. By the way this is all really pointless if you think about it because Gaara has already been pardoned, he's the Kazekage for peep sakes. He won this thread before it was even made.

gaara had already changed and became the kazekage before the 1tail was extracted bro, that was a poop response young one:scorps:

If you think about it, that just makes the point I was trying to get across even better.

 

[Last Arcanum]

The Uchiha "curse of hatred" is what sounds like bullshit to me, nothing but an excuse to act like a jackass. The fact is that Sasuke, even now knowing the truth is still choosing to go down the wrong path.

Wow, are you being serious?

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Kakashi himself stated that he was victim of that era and was corrupted by Tobi/Madara.

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Itachi who was the one that initially changed Sasuke stated that his heart was a blank canvas, easily painted -- similar to how Nagato was. Naruto understands and can even relate with Sasuke's reasoning, going as far as saying he could have easily been in his same shoes.

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One misstep and he might've been thinking the same horrible things.

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I'm not saying it's the right thing to do but he himself doesn't stand for what they made Itachi go through and by extension the ostracism of his clan which ultimately resulted in their destruction. In his eyes the village is unjust and cruel which is his main driving point in wanting to destroy it. They are all enjoying peace at the cost of everything that initially mattered to him. He also states that he yearns to "free" the Uchiha clan from this corrupt shinobi world and in sense he has valid reason in seeing it that way; corrupt.

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Onoki stated several interesting things; Shinobi are greedy, fight solely for themselves and fail to share other's feelings. The very same shinobi world that condemns Sasuke have sought and taken revenge themselves, it's all part of a cycle that has been ongoing for years.

He admits that the current ninja world's system is birthing hatred and voices out a desire to change this, as it's their own responsibilities to do so.

I'm not saying this all going to magically grant him a pardon but this along the truth about his clan and Itachi being revealed to everyone publicly might just assist his case. He's also been manipulated into being a pawn of Tobi, like Nagato before him and like Sunagakure with Orochimaru.

Yes, I know the circumstances are different with the Orochimaru situation but nevertheless similarities can still be drawn. Sunagakure didn't have to side with their Kazekage in wanting to invade Konohagakure, they could have fought this issue.

After all, Danzo and the Hiruzen's advisers overruled him and continued on to order the massacre of the Uchiha clan. They went against his wishes which validates that a village could very well disagree and take action themselves.

 

[Yo pappy]

Onoki stated several interesting things; Shinobi are greedy, fight solely for themselves and fail to share other's feelings. The very same shinobi world that condemns Sasuke have sought and taken revenge themselves, it's all part of a cycle that has been ongoing for years.

He admits that the current ninja world's system is birthing hatred and voices out a desire to change this, as it's their own responsibilities to do so.

Way too lazy at the moment to read all that, sorry. I will address this statement though. You basically said it yourself here, "The very same shinobi world that condemns Sasuke have sought and taken revenge themselves." So this "curse" you're talking about is not Uchiha specific, it's everyone. And curse or no curse everyone has a choice, and we've seen several ninjas in Naruto turn a new leaf. There's no denying that just because your elders/ancestors lived a certain way, or did certain things doesn't mean you have to do them. That's like saying if everyone in your family is obese that means you're gonna be obese too. There's a good chance that you might be, but you have to find it within you to be better, and watch what you eat so you don't end up being fatass. Sasuke is a fatass.

 

[Last Arcanum]

Way too lazy at the moment to read all that, sorry. I will address this statement though. You basically said it yourself here, "The very same shinobi world that condemns Sasuke have sought and taken revenge themselves." So this "curse" you're talking about is not Uchiha specific, it's everyone. And curse or no curse everyone has a choice, and we've seen several ninjas in Naruto turn a new leaf. There's no denying that just because your elders/ancestors lived a certain way, or did certain things doesn't mean you have to do them. That's like saying if everyone in your family is obese that means you're gonna be obese too. There's a good chance that you might be, but you have to find it within you to be better, and watch what you eat so you don't end up being fatass. Sasuke is a fatass.

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Onoki basically said himself that because Kumogakure were greedily amassing more power and techniques during a period of disarmament that the balance between the villages were broken, essentially giving them no other alternative than to hire Akatsuki to fight for them in wars, etc.

So then are you saying the villages were wrong in using Akatsuki to do their dirty work? What do you suppose the villages who were lacking in strength to do in such a situation?

As I said before, the current shinobi system is flawed and is the cause of all this hatred. The kages wouldn't have voiced out a desire for change if it wasn't causing any calamities in the shinobi world.

 

[Yo pappy]

So then are you saying the villages were wrong in using Akatsuki to do their dirty work? What do you suppose the villages who were lacking in strength to do in such a situation?

As I said before, the current shinobi system is flawed and is the cause of all this hatred. The kages wouldn't have voiced out a desire for change if it wasn't causing any calamities in the shinobi world.

Yes, the villages were wrong in using Akatsuki, and they should have found a better alternative. As for your second statement, I agree, the system is the one to blame.

 

[naruttebayo]

Wow, are you being serious?

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Kakashi himself stated that he was victim of that era and was corrupted by Tobi/Madara.

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

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Itachi who was the one that initially changed Sasuke stated that his heart was a blank canvas, easily painted -- similar to how Nagato was. Naruto understands and can even relate with Sasuke's reasoning, going as far as saying he could have easily been in his same shoes.

You must be registered for see links

One misstep and he might've been thinking the same horrible things.

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

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I'm not saying it's the right thing to do but he himself doesn't stand for what they made Itachi go through and by extension the ostracism of his clan which ultimately resulted in their destruction. In his eyes the village is unjust and cruel which is his main driving point in wanting to destroy it. They are all enjoying peace at the cost of everything that initially mattered to him. He also states that he yearns to "free" the Uchiha clan from this corrupt shinobi world and in sense he has valid reason in seeing it that way; corrupt.

You must be registered for see links

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Onoki stated several interesting things; Shinobi are greedy, fight solely for themselves and fail to share other's feelings. The very same shinobi world that condemns Sasuke have sought and taken revenge themselves, it's all part of a cycle that has been ongoing for years.

He admits that the current ninja world's system is birthing hatred and voices out a desire to change this, as it's their own responsibilities to do so.

I'm not saying this all going to magically grant him a pardon but this along the truth about his clan and Itachi being revealed to everyone publicly might just assist his case. He's also been manipulated into being a pawn of Tobi, like Nagato before him and like Sunagakure with Orochimaru.

Yes, I know the circumstances are different with the Orochimaru situation but nevertheless similarities can still be drawn. Sunagakure didn't have to side with their Kazekage in wanting to invade Konohagakure, they could have fought this issue.

After all, Danzo and the Hiruzen's advisers overruled him and continued on to order the massacre of the Uchiha clan. They went against his wishes which validates that a village could very well disagree and take action themselves.

ok
so what do u want to say????

 

[lswhyte123]

meow

This is where it's at.

MEOW!!!!

I basically think that Sasuke has had the chance every step of the way to make ammends but has actively chosen to continue to further ruin his future and condemn himself. He should receive no pardon & no mercy.

I hope Plot-Troll-No-Jutsu doesn't finish Naruto.

To Black Uchiha:

1: If you leave your home to join the man that Killed your leader,then you are a traitor.
2: Sasuke attacked them and Orochimaru had to stop Sasuke. No one attacked Sasuke.
3: I didn't say Sasuke was under the leafs banner when he attacked Bee. I said he attacked Bee which makes him a wanted criminal in the eyes of the Cloud.
4: I don't care if he pleaded them not to attack. He invaded their land and was plotting to attack their Kage's(whether just Danzo or not). He still killed people who were defending their land/country. He shouldn't have snuck in if he didn't want to harm them. They couldn't just stand back and allow an international criminal to roam around and the Gokage summit.