[Discussion] Something suspicious about religion.

[UchihaBrat]

Re: Something suspocious about religion.

You have to take it with a grain of salt. I am Christian but I'm a scholar too and am not afraid of knowing where the religion comes from and why texts in the Bible are written the way they are. Keep in mind when the books were written what audience it as for, what was happening socially at the time and why things may have been written in the context that they were. Everyone will describe an angel as beautiful because its just a part of the light and what is considered desirable, not cos we see them flying all around all the time lol. Same with demons lol

Agreed. We can only guess where it came from and why it was written as it was since we haven't got any reliable sources to tell us about how things are regarding these mattes.
So the beauty is 'light' part of the light and is desirable??xd sorry, I'm a bit slow today

Yeah I understand. =) You got your own right on believing that you prefer. ^^

So seeing is believing for you right?



You just made a statement that is out of the topic.

And if you want to share your view on religion, i don't mind debating with you all day long.

I guess, thank you.
Well, not entirely. Something can be true for me if I merely understand it, which doesn't necessarily require me seeing it.

why out of the topic i just explained why evil is ugly and good is beautiful

something is beautiful because we say it is, not because it exists as such, same goes for good and evil something is good because it is something we want and evil something we dont like and dont want to occur and since we like beautiful and we like good its no wonder that somwhere throughout history those two values were put together

so where exactly was I out of topic?
oh as for religion, i would debate too but if we do, sadly, this thread is gonna get closed

it's not as if you were that much out of topic, but you did make a claim about the religion being man-made and that you were unable to entirely connect to the thread topic, it is only an opinion/assumption so far since it isn't something you have proven. Pease refrain from making such statements in the future(in this thread at least) and thank you for contributing to the thread!

@Swizzik please stop multi-posting and follow the rules, the second post is off topic, just edit it instead of saying sorry, that works better, moreover, you won't risk infraction if the mods come around.

At the first post though: I'm referring to the fact that most angels and demons are depicted as stated before, and more so about Lucifer, whom I haven't once seen depicted as beautiful, only described as, but that was before he fell.

A reminder to all: if it is off topic, it is better talked about through another thread made for the topic, or through vm/pms, thank you.

 

[Olorin]

Re: Something suspocious about religion.

Nah Algalon you always do this in every religious thread you always insinuate that God isn't real. I don't I get the feeling that you feel people are stupid if they believe it, like your better than them.

i dont think that, i dont care what anyone believes its just fun to be a part of the debate, and I insinuate it because there is no reason to say it is real and there are plenty other explonations that are more credible

also where is the proof ... and dont say that we have no proof that it doesnt exist

in this case the burden of proof falls on religion (if the general idea would be the other way arround (meaning the burden is on those who say it doesnt exist) i think we (all of us) would have to pose some important questions about our system, society, ...)

P.S. in this case proof being the proof of god and the proof of religion not being man made

 

[UchihaBrat]

Re: Something suspocious about religion.

i dont think that, i dont care what anyone believes its just fun to be a part of the debate, and I insinuate it because there is no reason to say it is real and there are plenty other explonations that are more credible

also where is the proof ... and dont say that we have no proof that it doesnt exist

in this case the burden of proof falls on religion (if the general idea would be the other way arround (meaning the burden is on those who say it doesnt exist) i think we (all of us) would have to pose some important questions about our system, society, ...)

P.S. in this case proof being the proof of god and the proof of religion not being man made

There's no reason to say it is not real either, it isn't something you can prove wrong, no matter how you twist words. It is abstract for a reason ya know.
We're not discussing this because we are to definitely prove anything, only to discuss it, so realise this and stop posting off topic posts, because it is these kinds of posts that kills a thread I.e. you who are posting them.
Now if you have anything else which is off topic to taLk about, create a different thread or vm/pm the person about it, because this isn't the thread for it.

 

[UchihaBrat]

Re: Something suspocious about religion.

Criminals have gotten away with crimes like that. God is real until proven not real or the other way around.

Enough is enough. I've called a mod since you couldn't help but continue to break the rules and further your selfish purpose of ruining the thread, trying to convince someone who doesn't want to be convinced.

Edit: Editing your post like this and still including off topic text isn't going to help you, sorry. Besides, you already said that before I.e. you're spamming.

Edit#2: I'm writing this on a mobile device with auto correction, sorry for any typos.

 

[ZK]

You know, it IS possible to just ignore people who spam.
It has been said before; beauty is merely associated with good and the opposite is true for evil. While, of course, hot and dangerous can be applied to someone 'evil' or at leadt not 'good', is is generally accepted that the Light side comes with beauty and praise, while the dark side comes with facial tattoo's and bad karma. Yes, that was a Star Wars metaphor.

 

[Avani]

'Fixed the title for you.

Well I guess because the artists wanted to make Angels attractive and wanted just opposite for demons. You don't portray someone in nice way you don't like- human nature.

 

[UchihaBrat]

Re: Something suspocious about religion.

I'm not trying t going to right at first but I was going into more detail until I saw the other dudes posts. o convince anyone of anything I don't even believe in God and might as well close your thread because your answer has been received. I edited it because that was what I was really mean to write before I saw that dudes post.

Then if this thread is ruined thanks to you guys anyways, I suppose I might point some things out.
The answer? There isn't any set answers for this, people's opinions are different, thus the views everyone brings will be, which means I can't get my 'answer'.

You're not fooling anyone. If you had truly wanted to write that at first, then you would have not quoted his post, then only to edit it, writing what you had already written in the first post. It was a poor attempt at trying to cover your tracks and seem as if you were following the rules, thank you.

@Zero: thanks for the advice, but if it's two guys going at it, then it won't stop with me just ignoring them, they still continue after all.
Thanks for trying to stay on topic at least.

Tsuchi: so you're not going to close this thread? Could you at least clean it somehow?
Thank you as well for fixing the title, and for staying on topic.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

when you die you become closer to G.O.D... your life will no longer exist like G.O.D... not hating... not flaming...just truth

 

[UchihaBrat]

when you die you become closer to G.O.D... your life will no longer exist like G.O.D... not hating... not flaming...just truth

I think you might have misread the first postO_O
The first post is questioning why there is difference between how angels and demons looks like, as they are usually depicted in paintings etc., though I haven't read the bible and can't say how they were described there.
Also, how come you don't see average looking angels?
This is the thread topic, please keep to it, ok?

 

[Swizzik]

Re: Something suspocious about religion.

Then if this thread is ruined thanks to you guys anyways, I suppose I might point some things out.
The answer? There isn't any set answers for this, people's opinions are different, thus the views everyone brings will be, which means I can't get my 'answer'.

You're not fooling anyone. If you had truly wanted to write that at first, then you would have not quoted his post, then only to edit it, writing what you had already written in the first post. It was a poor attempt at trying to cover your tracks and seem as if you were following the rules, thank you.

@Zero: thanks for the advice, but if it's two guys going at it, then it won't stop with me just ignoring them, they still continue after all.
Thanks for trying to stay on topic at least.

Tsuchi: so you're not going to close this thread? Could you at least clean it somehow?
Thank you as well for fixing the title, and for staying on topic.

I only edited because I don't want to double post. I am the kind of person were I don't keep my train of thought going one direction I always jump from thought to thought prematurely. I can change my thoughts based on word in a sentence and it makes me think of something else in this case that's what happened. Peace.

Edit: Also yeah I think there are average looking angels only because our image of beauty may not match the image God has of beauty. I mean who is to say Adam wasn't Average looking but at the end of the six days God said all was good. Maybe God doesn't see beauty in the human sense rather in his own way.

 

[UchihaBrat]

Re: Something suspocious about religion.

I only edited because I don't want to double post. I am the kind of person were I don't keep my train of thought going one direction I always jump from thought to thought prematurely. I can change my thoughts based on word in a sentence and it makes me think of something else in this case that's what happened. Peace.

Edit: Also yeah I think there are average looking angels only because our image of beauty may not match the image God has of beauty. I mean who is to say Adam wasn't Average looking but at the end of the six days God said all was good. Maybe God doesn't see beauty in the human sense rather in his own way.

Ok, I'll go along with it for now, since this post was more acceptable. First, thank you for at least caring to continue with something a bit newer. Peace.

@edit: this is another important aspect I brought up or at least hinted at earlier; that what we deem beautiful differs from person to person, in other words, there ARE average looking angels. BUT, if we are to look at the general opinion, then most think that the difference between angels and demons in looks, is apparent.
I guess we can only speculate as to how God views things and how it is in relation to how we do it, but I know that I probably won't ever understand him.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

I think you might have misread the first postO_O
The first post is questioning why there is difference between how angels and demons looks like, as they are usually depicted in paintings etc., though I haven't read the bible and can't say how they were described there.
Also, how come you don't see average looking angels?
This is the thread topic, please keep to it, ok?

i already know what you said

 

[Avani]

Re: Something suspocious about religion.

Tsuchi: so you're not going to close this thread? Could you at least clean it somehow?
Thank you as well for fixing the title, and for staying on topic.

I did but, seeing the post after yours (yet again) I think this thread is doomed because people are unable to be objective and limit to the original question you asked. You shouldn't have used the word religion in the title . Just IMO.

 

[UchihaBrat]

i already know what you said

Then please explain in further detail how what you wrote was related to the topic, I didn't quite get how it wasxd

@Tsuchi: yes, it does attract rule breaking posts, but now the thread somehow got upon its feet again, thanks to Swizzik at lest being able to go back to topic, he did well to do that.

 

[Melizzle]

Re: Something suspocious about religion.

Agreed. We can only guess where it came from and why it was written as it was since we haven't got any reliable sources to tell us about how things are regarding these mattes.
So the beauty is 'light' part of the light and is desirable??xd sorry, I'm a bit slow today

Yes. I had no idea you were talking about paintings and such. And since you are I am definitely sticking by why I said. When you look at art and people's interpretations of anything especially religious pieces, you have to keep in mind the symbolism. In the angels vs demons situation is it light versus dark. The light being things of God and the dark being things of Hell. So its not about black and white this is what angels and demons look like, it is a symbolic representation. In actuality some belief is that angels and demons are spirits that dont really have a human form. There are beliefs that do believe that have a form as well though. But don't take art as the solid belief about a culture, religion, or anything. Art is art. I mean I'm sure youve seen abstract depictions of animals even though we know what they actually look like.

 

[Swizzik]

Re: Something suspocious about religion.

Ok, I'll go along with it for now, since this post was more acceptable. First, thank you for at least caring to continue with something a bit newer. Peace.

@edit: this is another important aspect I brought up or at least hinted at earlier; that what we deem beautiful differs from person to person, in other words, there ARE average looking angels. BUT, if we are to look at the general opinion, then most think that the difference between angels and demons in looks, is apparent.
I guess we can only speculate as to how God views things and how it is in relation to how we do it, but I know that I probably won't ever understand him.

Yeah I guess but even within human society we have our different ideas of beauty even though facial symmetry is something almost all peoples find attractive people of different social structures have different ideas of beauty and even within ones society these ideas differ as well. Like your idea of beauty may not match mine. So instead of asking why are A beautiful and B ugly you should ask what is beautiful and what is ugly?

 

[UchihaBrat]

Re: Something suspocious about religion.

Yes. I had no idea you were talking about paintings and such. And since you are I am definitely sticking by why I said. When you look at art and people's interpretations of anything especially religious pieces, you have to keep in mind the symbolism. In the angels vs demons situation is it light versus dark. The light being things of God and the dark being things of Hell. So its not about black and white this is what angels and demons look like, it is a symbolic representation. In actuality some belief is that angels and demons are spirits that dont really have a human form. There are beliefs that do believe that have a form as well though. But don't take art as the solid belief about a culture, religion, or anything. Art is art. I mean I'm sure youve seen abstract depictions of animals even though we know what they actually look like.

Oh no, please don't misunderstand! I wasn't trying to prove anything specifically, that demons are ugly or angels beautiful. I'm just trying to point out that this is how it's usually viewed upon as. I meant to say that you can SEE this by just looking at art, that is, how people, many but not all, associate like so.
I just want to discuss why you guys think it is so, proving it here isn't ally possiblexd thanks for your posting a details answer again!

Yeah I guess but even within human society we have our different ideas of beauty even though facial symmetry is something almost all peoples find attractive people of different social structures have different ideas of beauty and even within ones society these ideas differ as well. Like your idea of beauty may not match mine. So instead of asking why are A beautiful and B ugly you should ask what is beautiful and what is ugly?

Well, there is differences, that is true. Japan, for example, had an idea of beauty before, that women should be a bit chubby, this was considered a sign of beauty but nowadays , in general, the skinny ones, as are models, are supposed to be beautiful.
what I'm trying to get at, though, is that the is definitely a general opinion of what beauty is, this I think we can agree on, otherwise Justin Bieber wouldn't have as many fan girlsxd
This relates back on the topic of angels and demons being beautiful/ugly, it is in general re speaking of, not he particular cases, because ther is always difference, as you pointed out.

 

[Swizzik]

Re: Something suspocious about religion.

Well, there is differences, that is true. Japan, for example, had an idea of beauty before, that women should be a bit chubby, this was considered a sign of beauty but nowadays , in general, the skinny ones, as are models, are supposed to be beautiful.
what I'm trying to get at, though, is that the is definitely a general opinion of what beauty is, this I think we can agree on, otherwise Justin Bieber wouldn't have as many fan girlsxd
This relates back on the topic of angels and demons being beautiful/ugly, it is in general re speaking of, not he particular cases, because ther is always difference, as you pointed out.

A thought just crossed my mind. What if people back then believe that humanity is beautiful because well only humans are the only known creation to the soul therefore deemed beautiful because God thought it was beautiful? Demons are more often than not monsters and angels are just humans wings. Birds have a special place in religions even Christianity, well mostly things that can fly. If you think about it birds are closer to the heavens than we are so A human+Bird=Angel? closest thing to being beautiful and heavenly? Bats were considered birds too back then but they were like an ugly version of bird so thats why even humanoid demons have bat like wings? Dunno just a thought?

 

[UchihaBrat]

Re: Something suspocious about religion.

A thought just crossed my mind. What if people back then believe that humanity is beautiful because well only humans are the only known creation to the soul therefore deemed beautiful because God thought it was beautiful? Demons are more often than not monsters and angels are just humans wings. Birds have a special place in religions even Christianity, well mostly things that can fly. If you think about it birds are closer to the heavens than we are so A human+Bird=Angel? closest thing to being beautiful and heavenly? Bats were considered birds too back then but they were like an ugly version of bird so thats why even humanoid demons have bat like wings? Dunno just a thought?

It is an interesting thought and might even be highly relevant!
The combinations, a bird's wings+human, a bat's wings+human and the fact that birds have been somewhat important creatures, religiously, may very well point to how it could be.
When you think about it, besides bird poop, they also have their singing, which we also, most of the times, consider beautiful. Maybe it is all an aspiration to make the two seem as beautiful and ugly as possible, as good and as bad as possible, that they use animals which they consider to be either!
It's a very good idea Swizzik!

 

[Olorin]

when you die you become closer to G.O.D... your life will no longer exist like G.O.D... not hating... not flaming...just truth

when you die you go 6 feet under ... not hating ... not flaming ... just truth :izuna:

anyway my real purpose of this post is: I am a physicist and i believe in science and everyone else has his/her beliefs so im stepping out before this gets uglier

P.S. except if there is gonna be a post i simply need to reply to XD