Why are you atheists/agnostic?

[UnrealSoul]

Nope, that is idiotic. sorry but I can't sugar code this. Please use actual scientific evidence, like actual theories. There cannot be a theory on where apples grow (thats a fact, facts help make theories). However you may have a theory on what allows apples to grow in which case, the theory would still remain relatively unchanged. An apple still need water and nutrients to grow probably the exact same proccess happening somwhere else is all! (a theory would never suggest it can only be obtained from a tree but mention that is where it generally happens).

Now it is true certain theories are adjusted when discoveries are made, but generally they only tweek the theory. No one claims the theories are perfect. Is gravity just a theory?

You have a serious lack of scientific understanding, twice now I have prooven you wrong, first with the big bang and now with this silly argument.

So your intellect cannot understand a analogy?I said it is not true what my analogy contained so why are you taking it literaly?Im done i proved what i had to.My argument was that scientific facts change and you have proven me correct within your quote.

Good day sir,

 

[sandysennin]

I'll answer within you post

Too many reason I'm a Strong Athiest (I'd rather you not read if you do not want your faith challenged.)

Read it all... not even a bit was my faith challenged! Guess i'm a Strong Theist!​

I was brought up Muslim but I converted to Atheism soon after, then one of my friends brought me into Christianity. Soon after, I'm returned to Atheism.

Then you shouldn't consider yourself anything before knowing what you are getting into.​

1. God doesn't show himself and never answers anyone's prayers.

See, this is a problem. What do ppl ask for? Do they move their asses or just sit down watching tv waiting for God to come with whatever they want, like the pizza guy?!​

2. It says in the Bible that the only unforgivable sin is to not accept Christ.
- What about all the kids in Saudi Arabia, Oman, Yemen, etc, that are raised in countries who are strictly 99% Muslim. Must they be damned to an eternity of torture granted to them by their "all loving" God?

Try to see it as a concept, not a person! I saw thing that way once... now i don't. And i really don't like that burn in hell crap! I found it bogus too!​

- Native Americans who didn't even get introduced to Christianity until the 1400's? Do they all have to go and burn in Hell for eternity?

Did you know that the Tupy (native brasilians) had their stories of a messiah and a cross?! And they didn't have contact with Christianity... that was why they trusted the portuguese when they saw the cross on their ships... granted it was a bad idea.​

- Does someone who is an incredibly great person but doesn't accept Christ burn in Hell for eternity? By the Christians I've asked, yes, they do.

Again, i rally don't freaking like that! No they don't!​

3. God is supposed to be perfect, omniscient, and everything is supposed to be part of his divine plan. Holocaust? Famine? War?

Do you know His plan?! If there is an after life, is it that big of a deal what goes on in this one? I'll answer you: yes it is because you will carry your deeds with you. What goes around comes around, i guess... if your good person, good things will come; if your a bad person... good thing wont come...​

4. If God was perfect, his creations would be perfect and we're far from perfect. You can say, "But Adam and Eve ate the Forbidden Fruit so we all sin because of them." But you contradict yourself by saying because in the Bible it says, ""The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father..." -- Ezekiel 18:20"

The perfectness in God's creation is, IMO, evolution... of everything. Just look around you... everything evolves... so do we, so does our understanding of things​

5. Religion has been the catalyst of more grief, pain, and death then anything else for humanity.

Really?! Do you know that the 20th century was the most bloodied century of recorded history... and not by religious wars...​

6. There are so many contradiction in the Bible.
- ON SEEING GOD
"... I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." -- Genesis 32:30

"No man hath seen God at any time..."-- John 1:18
-ON THE POWER OF GOD
"... with God all things are possible." -- Matthew 19:26

"...The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron." -- Judges 1:19

There are so many contradictions in life. I haven't read that much of the bible, so i can't really comment on something i'm not that familiar.​

7.If you are religious, ask yourself this, what makes your religion so special?

Done that... i feel comfortable in my religion. I feel home! So, for ME, it's better than the others... btw, i'm not of any of the dominant religions.​

- Let me guess, you were brought up your religion and you simply took what everyone around you fed you. Being indoctrinated by your family and friends right?

Wrong! i was educated in catholicism... and turn atheist/agnostic, whatever...​

- There are hundreds of religions, nothing makes yours special, since most of the people in here are Christian, I'll speak for that one.
- Think the story of Jesus was original? Vishnu, Hindu God, was also born on December 25th to a virgin mother, he was also a carpenter. Hinduism and the story of Vishnu came 2000 years before Christianity.

Isnt it strange that, without internet, phones, fax, they all had the same story?! Really, the same story?!​

7.It's simple to see that religion was made by humans to help themselves in different ways.

Yes, you are right here: religions IS made by MEN​

- People are scared of dying, so they make up things about an afterlife.

I'm not... but nonetheless you are right! People still fear death! Beats me why!​

- Religions banned homosexuality and masturbation because long ago, humanity was having population problems.

Sorry, i don't get this... honestly, you lost me on this one.​

- People are so scared they need something to cling to.

Again, you are right on this one.​

8. Too many things stand against God's perfection, in the Bible he shows signs of jealousy, anger, and wrath.

You mean the book wrote by men who had a limited understanding of things?! We can't really understand God today, what makes you think they could?! Can you understand all the scientific concepts?! Let me guess, you can't. Maybe it's about understanding.​

9. How come none of the Holy Books state anything about scientific breakthrough that we didn't know about yet. If a deity wrote them then he would be all-knowing. How come dinosaurs aren't mentioned? How come atoms and cells aren't mentioned? How come gravity and our solar system being heliocentric isn't mentioned? Because humans wrote it, they didn't know how to answer questions so they made things up.

Did you ever care to REALLY look at mythology? Where did life came from? In a very simple way, we can say from the primordial ocean, so, from water. There's a african myth that says we all came from this lagoon created by the goddess of sea... Men creation are associated with water... The importance of the Sun... Why the main god is almost always associated with the sun?! BEcause without the sun, life on Earth wouldnt be quite the same would it? See, they knew... and there are lots of exemples... Does the bible intend to answer this kind of stuff?​

10. Evolution is much more credible and verifiable then Creationism
- We evolved from Homo Habilis (Hairy humans with larger jaws and smaller brains but with larger imaginations then the animals around them.
- From Homo Habilis, we evolved to Homo Erectus, and so on to Homo Sapien.

I know this. I studied when i was in University. And i'm with you on this one! Creationism is defended by those who want to keep ppl in ignorance so they can control the masses... it's a power thing. The same with money!​

- Or you can just believe that a old man made a guy and then took his rib and made a girl.

I like the old man part. you know why they said it was an old man? Because back then, the elders were considered the most wise persons. Nowadays we have little respect for what children and old ppl have to say...​

If you are going to say something, make sure to reply to every point I made, instead of simply disregarding the rest and concentrating on one small argument.

Guess i'm done...​

I'm only 14 years old and all these flaws can be identified easily.

I was 14 once too... xd​

 

[Necron]

the only real magic existing is dark magic.

There's no Wight or Black or Gray or Dark or Rainbow or whatever-color magic. It's just how you use it my friend... Believe it or not, that's just the way it is!

 

[Strata Uchiha]

Can I ask you a question? Why is it that you're so weak in yourself that you have to feel like there is something watching over you? are you so scared as to have to rely on the "Divine" to give your life purpose, meaning and guidance? What do you have to lose by trusting in your own strength, life is scary and hard but no one not even a "God" is going to do it for you.

Another thing, do you really think that establishments such as the Christian church which have historically bread fear, mistrust, blood shed, and intolerance, is really what a figure such as Jesus (be him historical or mythological) was trying to accomplish with his message and teachings?

And are you so stubborn as to say living life the way you do is the only acceptable way for everyone? Life is about choice and free will and in your "belief" free will is what sets us apart from gods other creations. Religious views are a choice and it's not one you can make for others.

Oh wow....someone needs a Klondike Bar. Here and chill brochacho.

You must be registered for see images

Dude seriously, I wasn't trying to sway anyone to get religious beliefs "on the internet." That's really hard to do, and I wasn't trying to do it.

I was just trying to stir up some casual conversation about "religion" and "atheists." That's it.

 

[Hard2bringdown]

right on. thanks man. Quick question.

How do I post a Thread?

sry was out for a while, um i had a hazel, seems that by going to the forums and then choosinggggg lets say general discussion category, at the top it should have the option for new threads

 

[Kodiarama Senju]

Alright lets break this down
1 God shows himself in many ways o people whether if be from acts of kindness, or an angel, or in a dream, from miracles that can be explained, God may not show himself physically yet, the time is coming when he will. God doesn't respond to prayers always in a voice, but in a action or in an instinct to move. Sometimes he'll speak through someone we know or even people we don't know its up to God how he will response to prayers, but I can tell you is he will always react to acts of faith.
2. I believe so don't quote on this as saying this is fact, but I believe that when we die we will all stand before Jesus and he will ask those who haven't known him, and those who have even refused to know him. To believe in him and accept him as their savior. I don't God will ever give up on trying to be save as many of his people as he can.
3The Holocaust, and all of the other horrible things that have happened through time are a result of sin and sin alone. When we fell we introduce sin into our lives and sin has been distorting us ever since. But what you should understand is that God will use every bad thing in your life for a greater purpose if we have faith in him.
4 God gave us our free will, our will to choose for ourselves instead of just choosing what we are told to choose. So when Satan came to Eve saying that she wouldn't die from the fruit she chose to believe Satan over God, and in turn Adam chose to believe Eve over God. God gave us the will to choose because he wants us to choose him willingly, and not just because we were told to.
5 Yes in yes past and even now people have used religion to cause alot of grief in this world. But is mans doing and not Gods, but for every wrong that has been committed through religion that has been alot of miracles, and slot of good deeds that have come from it too.
6. No man has seen God physically before, but those verse you are referring to are a man seen God in the world around him, and the miracle that God done . it was talking about Judha driving out the people of the mountain no God
7a. What makes us special is God and God alone we do everything on to the Lord, and its that plain and simple. The belief in God predates way before Jesus was even born, and the prophecy of the savior being born of a virgin too. Are there similarities yes, but there also many ways to view the same God.
7b. Humanity wasn't haven't problems with population problems its just not natural for people of the same *** to be with one another, and have intimate relations simple truth. Are we scared yes, but won't you rather believe and know that this life is just the beginning of a great novel, than a short story.
8. Just because he has emotions doesn't mean he isn't perfect, he is also our father, and will punish us as any father would do when his children have done something wrong.
9 and 10. That's because it's not a story about the world, or a play by play of how the world started. The Bible a story about how we reconcile our relationship with God. God starts off the Bible from the family line he is going to use to reconcile, and bring us closer to him. What people don't seem to understand is that the explanation of how God created the universe isn't a exact detailed account of what really happened. Its just an overview, because that part isn't important to the overall message of the Bible.

I hope I answered you in a way you could understand and fill free to ask anymore questions that come up or things you think I still didn't cover

1. God showing himself through miracles and through people and dreams? So if I were to say that God came to me in a dream and told my I'm his second son, you would believe me? People can easily lie about those things. I really wish prayers were actually answered but they're not. If he doesn't answer all prayers why does he answer any at all? The few times you do pray for something and it happens is mere coincidence.

2. Similar to millions of people before you, you make your own interpretation of your religion. It doesn't say anything about that in the Bible, all it says is that if you do not accept Christ you'll burn in hell. Making a random interpretation of something like that is like making an illusion for yourself. This would mean that 80% of all the people who ever lived are in hell.

3. But your religion claims everything is part of his plan. So sin is a part of his plan, the holocaust was a part of his plan, famine was a part of his plan. The only possible response to this that many Christians use is, "Well, God works in mysterious ways." That doesn't cut it, it makes him look very malevolent.

4. He gave us free will . . . so we have to use it exactly as he demands us to or else he'll banish us to hell for all eternity. Every bad thing in your life for a greater purpose? That's very unethical. People starving to death for a greater purpose? A kind citizen getting cancer? A father killing his wife and child? Those don't play out well at all for the people around them.

5. Miracles, face it, real miracles haven't happened ever since the stories in the Bible that are probably not true. God doesn't perform anything supernatural on the planet, it's just a bunch of people getting over emotional. It might have caused a few good things, but in the end, they are belittled by the amount of pain it's caused.

6.It says he saw God face to face, you're interpreting it differently then what it says again. Same with the other verse, it says,"God was with Judah."

7. So you're saying your God makes you special, in fact, it doesn't cause every religion has their own God that has different views then yours. If it were all the same God, they there wouldn't be such huge differences between religious superstitions and gods.
7b. So you bring out the argument that homosexuality is unnatural, well religion is also unnatural, when you're born, you're practically an Atheist. It's also pretty easy to tell that Religion isn't supernatural at all, it's man-made.

8. If he's perfect, he wouldn't need our unquestionable praise, and if he was all-loving he wouldn't send 80% of humanity to Hell.

9. You don't find it odd that it doesn't mention a single thing that we didn't know about at the time and it only discusses thing we understood? Again, it's pointing to the it being man-made.

I've had my fair share of religious arguments, and in the end, all it comes down it is the religious person either saying, "Well that's where you need faith, sometimes we don't know how God works" or they keep on rambling about emotional superstitions. I do thank you for answering my whole post though, very respectable.

 

[Kodiarama Senju]

Yes a sin is a sin that will never change, but the difference is, and what I've been trying to tell you instead of having to sacrifice a animal everytime we do. We don't have to, because God sent Jesus as a sacrifice to atone for all our sins big, or small we are for given. Meaning we don't have to go out, and kill any homosexual out there, or any person who works on Sunday. Through Jesus the law was fulfilled, now all to do is accept Jesus as our savior, and I'm going to use a quote I used before Luke 9:23-25 "Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me.For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it. 25 What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit his very self?" Taking up the cross, and denying yourself means that we acknowledge yes we do sin, but we are trying everyday to step forward in faith, and out of sin plus repent from our sins. A hard thing for anyone to understand is that we are forgiven through Jesus for all that we have done in our lives big or, small no matter who we are if we accept Jesus we are forgiven. That doesn't mean we can go around doing whatever we want, but just that when we do slip up we aren't condemned for it. We just have to repent, and try to not do it again. To repent though faith, and step out of that sin with the help of God and Jesus.

You state that before Jesus came to be our savior, we had to sacrifice animals and kill homosexuals. What happens if we sin and don't do any of those things. There was a whole planet of people who performed sins, didn't do any of those things, and lived happily with no punishment.

 

[Kodiarama Senju]

As said in a earlier post of mine, if the bible (which is man-made and built based on beliefs and opinions in order to desperately answer mysterious events in the past) has influenced your decision on becoming an atheist, you should probably re-think that decision or come up with a better reason. The bible should merely be seen as a way to encourage good morals throughout society, such as treat others how you would want to be treated or killing and rape is wrong. Therefore stories within the bible should not be taken literally, as you pointed out, it contradicts itself. The stories within the bible are not fact and shouldn't be treated as such. All religions contradicts themselves at some point, no one has concrete evidence. Something with such contradictions should not influence your decision on whether there is a God or not. Until concrete proof has been presented on either side, it is best to be open-minded to all possibilities.

I'm not saying my Atheism is because of all the flaws in Christianity, but as you said, there are problems in every religion. If there is a creator of the universe, he isn't a human, he doesn't associate himself with us, and if he did he would do it physically, not make hundreds of religions with multiple flaws. If there is a God, he isn't any of the ones we have created. I'm an Atheist because religion and a belief in God is illogical to me.

 

[Malebolgia]

I'm not saying my Atheism is because of all the flaws in Christianity, but as you said, there are problems in every religion. If there is a creator of the universe, he isn't a human, he doesn't associate himself with us, and if he did he would do it physically, not make hundreds of religions with multiple flaws. If there is a God, he isn't any of the ones we have created. I'm an Atheist because religion and a belief in God is illogical to me.

God didn't make religion, they are created by men all over the planet to desperately try and answer mysterious questions that we have no way of answering. And you maybe right, maybe God isn't what men what him to be. Possibly he created us then decided not to interact with us completely, but that doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't exist.

Sounds to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, that your purpose for being an atheist is because you deem the image of God created by man as illogical. Since religion has flaws and contradicts itself, it leads you into believing the idea of there being a God is flawed as well. The bible is based off opinions as reliable as the ones you and I are sharing, so why base your opinion on a supposed superior being on what others say?

Both sides can be seen as illogical. Atheism, which implies that the world created itself by coincidence based on the belief of no God, can be considered illogical. Theist can be considered illogical by believing in something such as God without proof, seeing as he has not even been seen physically.

This is why I'm open to all possibilities. I believe it is the only wise thing to do until I can state something as fact.

 

[Avani]

Okay, I'm spoiler-tagging this because it turned out longer than I'd imagined it would, and I'm positive no one wants to read this. :|
And this is after cutting out an impressively long rant on this topic. ~_~

Spoiler

I was not brought up in a Christian family; both my parents are Hindu. So I will speak solely for myself here:

The several contradicting beliefs that Hinduism preaches have led me to not only lose what very little religious belief I had to start with, but also to cease believing in the existance of God.

My argument is based greatly on the teachings of the religion that my parents follow, and is backed up partially by logic, reasoning and science. I fail to see why I should put my faith, belief, time and effort into something which has not been proven to exist.

Also: I am, quite frankly, tired of all the "festivals" and "ceremonies" that one must oblige to in order to be considered a Hindu, yet when they are questioned about God X or God Y (Hinduism, for those that don't know >_> has gods for everything. EVERYTHING. Like, there are literally thousands of gods. ._.), they cannot provide jack about this "God" that they've been praying to for half their lives.

The religion (at present day) is based on an extremely hypocritical and shallow way of simply proving your loyalty to said religion by chanting some hymns every now and then. Not many people actually care about the gods, the reasons behind all these festivals, etc. They just care about the presents, the nice clothes and the fancy food.

So anyways, back to the point at hand: After a few years of unresolved doubt, inexplicable confusion and unanswered curiosity, I refused to be a part of this farcical religion any longer. And that is why I chose to become an atheist.

I am sorry if this offended any Hindus, although I doubt there are many on this site.

PS: This post is subject to editing. A lot of editing. I'm sure I'll be tempted to add my rant back into this at some point. ._.

Reply of the rant. Spoilers because it's not directed at anybody else.

Spoiler

I don't care if you are an atheist. Fine by me. I don't know what your parents taught you and how much they themselves know. But you shouldn't apply your idea of Hinduism on everyone. Since when one is forced to or must follow the ceremonies and festivals? It's more of cultural thing you may or may not want to follow. The festivals are mostly related to the new crops and change of season basically and differ in each region anyway. For my part I love them. I celebrate if I have time and inclination and skip when I don't feel like it. They brings the families and people together. That's how societies connect.

As for the concept of God you are highly confused on that too. Not asking you to follow or even read anyhthing but spare rest of us your rant because some of us know what we follow. I can bet you don't have even read Bhagvadgeeta let alone studying other philosophical books to understand the concept. So don't generalise.

The very fact that Hinduism gives me freedom to believe in God as well as not to believe and without any kind of eternal damnation to hell itself is nice enough for me. I can challange every doctrine and concept of it without any threat from the Religion or God. The only thing is says to me is:

Do not to others what ye do not wish
Done to yourself; and wish for others too
What ye desire and long for, for yourself — This is the whole of dharma — heed —it well.

— Veda Vyasa, The Mahabharata.

You can agree or disagree with the idea of God in Hinduism but if you don't undestand the concept itself blame your own education, do not insult rest of us

 

[Uchiha Paulsama]

Too many reason I'm a Strong Athiest (I'd rather you not read if you do not want your faith challenged.)
I was brought up Muslim but I converted to Atheism soon after, then one of my friends brought me into Christianity. Soon after, I'm returned to Atheism.
1. God doesn't show himself and never answers anyone's prayers.
2. It says in the Bible that the only unforgivable sin is to not accept Christ.
- What about all the kids in Saudi Arabia, Oman, Yemen, etc, that are raised in countries who are strictly 99% Muslim. Must they be damned to an eternity of torture granted to them by their "all loving" God?
- Native Americans who didn't even get introduced to Christianity until the 1400's? Do they all have to go and burn in Hell for eternity?
- Does someone who is an incredibly great person but doesn't accept Christ burn in Hell for eternity? By the Christians I've asked, yes, they do.
3. God is supposed to be perfect, omniscient, and everything is supposed to be part of his divine plan. Holocaust? Famine? War?
4. If God was perfect, his creations would be perfect and we're far from perfect. You can say, "But Adam and Eve ate the Forbidden Fruit so we all sin because of them." But you contradict yourself by saying because in the Bible it says, ""The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father..." -- Ezekiel 18:20"
5. Religion has been the catalyst of more grief, pain, and death then anything else for humanity.
6. There are so many contradiction in the Bible.
- ON SEEING GOD
"... I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." -- Genesis 32:30

"No man hath seen God at any time..."-- John 1:18
-ON THE POWER OF GOD
"... with God all things are possible." -- Matthew 19:26

"...The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron." -- Judges 1:19

7.If you are religious, ask yourself this, what makes your religion so special?
- Let me guess, you were brought up your religion and you simply took what everyone around you fed you. Being indoctrinated by your family and friends right?
- There are hundreds of religions, nothing makes yours special, since most of the people in here are Christian, I'll speak for that one.
- Think the story of Jesus was original? Vishnu, Hindu God, was also born on December 25th to a virgin mother, he was also a carpenter. Hinduism and the story of Vishnu came 2000 years before Christianity.
7.It's simple to see that religion was made by humans to help themselves in different ways.
- People are scared of dying, so they make up things about an afterlife.
- Religions banned homosexuality and masturbation because long ago, humanity was having population problems.
- People are so scared they need something to cling to.
8. Too many things stand against God's perfection, in the Bible he shows signs of jealousy, anger, and wrath.
9. How come none of the Holy Books state anything about scientific breakthrough that we didn't know about yet. If a deity wrote them then he would be all-knowing. How come dinosaurs aren't mentioned? How come atoms and cells aren't mentioned? How come gravity and our solar system being heliocentric isn't mentioned? Because humans wrote it, they didn't know how to answer questions so they made things up.
10. Evolution is much more credible and verifiable then Creationism
- We evolved from Homo Habilis (Hairy humans with larger jaws and smaller brains but with larger imaginations then the animals around them.
- From Homo Habilis, we evolved to Homo Erectus, and so on to Homo Sapien.
- Or you can just believe that a old man made a guy and then took his rib and made a girl.
If you are going to say something, make sure to reply to every point I made, instead of simply disregarding the rest and concentrating on one small argument.
I'm only 14 years old and all these flaws can be identified easily.

after i finished reading were the bold is, i had to correct you, that is false, don't speak for me on that. because you said," anyone's prayers" don't speak for me, or for anyone else, for things you can not understand.​

 

[Nerei]

"homosexuals are going straight to Hell if they don't renounce there ways."

Lolz, did anyone else read this in an Irish accent. xd
No offence to anyone whose Irish
_______________________

This is a reply to what someone else posted but I can't find the post anymore:

In my religion it says that if a people or person were not told about god or were not given sufficient enough detail about him (like constantly preaching to them) they will not be accounted for. Like the people who live in jungles or remote islands

 

[Professor Sarutobi]

after i finished reading were the bold is, i had to correct you, that is false, don't speak for me on that. because you said," anyone's prayers" don't speak for me, or for anyone else, for things you can not understand.​

"If you are going to say something, make sure to reply to every point I made, instead of simply disregarding the rest and concentrating on one small argument"

So what prayer did God answer for you? After he gave you it did you start praying for world peace or cure for cancer?

 

[Uchiha Paulsama]

"If you are going to say something, make sure to reply to every point I made, instead of simply disregarding the rest and concentrating on one small argument"

So what prayer did God answer for you? After he gave you it did you start praying for world peace or cure for cancer?

i don't have to talk about, or tell you what i pray about, because that is me and GODS business , not anyone else.


life is full of meaning, and there is a reason for everything, you go by human logic, meanings derived from man, which man couldn't creat the earth but "I" don't go by man made logic. ​

 

[Professor Sarutobi]

So you don't use logic, good to know. But seriously did you read all of what Kodiarama Senju posted because I would like to hope you didnt get one paragraph in and skip the rest.

 

[Uchiha Paulsama]

So you don't use logic, good to know. But seriously did you read all of what Kodiarama Senju posted because I would like to hope you didnt get one paragraph in and skip the rest.

bro, too me GOD is more then what humans can say, but that is just my experience. we humans don't know it all, how do you know if GOD has a plan or not? i skimmed through senju's wall of text. it is the same stuff everyone brings up, well certain types of people. i don't claim any religion, i just believe, observe, listen , and talk when it is needed. i look at life different then a average person my friend. GOD wants me to believe in myself, as well as THEE. that is were free will comes in. but there is alot more to that.

GOD has saved me, i don't gotta prove it, i know it,i believe it, and i will say it..​

 

[Professor Sarutobi]

bro, too me GOD is more then what humans can say, but that is just my experience. we humans don't know it all, how do you know if GOD has a plan or not? i skimmed through senju's wall of text. it is the same stuff everyone brings up, well certain types of people. i don't claim any religion, i just believe, observe, listen , and talk when it is needed. i look at life different then a average person my friend. GOD wants me to believe in myself, as well as THEE. that is were free will comes in. but there is alot more to that.

GOD has saved me, i don't gotta prove it, i know it,i believe it, and i will say it..​

" how do you know if god has a plan or not"

I could ask you the same, but believe what you want with or without proof

 

[Uchiha Paulsama]

" how do you know if god has a plan or not"

I could ask you the same, but believe what you want with or without proof

yep , respect bro, just remember it's a reason for everything, its a big universe out there that should be proof enough, but that is just my opinion ​

 

[Professor Sarutobi]

yep , respect bro, just remember it's a reason for everything, its a big universe out there that should be proof enough, but that is just my opinion ​

It is a big universe out there, maybe in a few more thousand years this won't be a debate anymore.

 

[Piccolosan]

This thread is pointless and should be stopped, it has swayed away form original topic and is not just a back and forth to see who is right or wrong.

In truth no one is right, unless there are proofs and facts to your statements its all pointless. Besides why do any of you care what the other thinks? It has no effect on you so why get made and bash each other?