[Debate] Abortion

[Piccolosan]

The decision if abortion is good or bad is completely relative of the circunstances.
Depending on how you grew up and your social contract, your morality will define what is good or bad, though it can be completely different than mine.

I find this thread good, but the people to discuss it with is pointless, why? Because we all have different morals, and because it's the internet, we are stubborn enough not to follow the ideology of others. This discussion will lead nowhere, because no one will accept other's moral conduct if they haven't been able to have a direct or indirect contact of the different situations.

So, do I believe abortion is wrong? It depends
Now, are you going to accept that everyone has different morals and thought proccess? It depends on you.

I see where your coming from but answer this, does a different angle on a situation make it right or wrong? Im sure some people thought Hitler was morally right in his genocide of Jews, does that make it right?

 

[Piccolosan]

would have.
-.-

Yes, I could also say I would have more money if not for that robber. Or I would have had a better relationship with my mom if that murderer didn't kill her...whats your point?

 

[Howard]

I understand that. Like if the would be baby daddy would want to keep it, then his decision matters too. But if both agree they're not ready, them whatever both decide is their best choice.

Personally ready or not atm I'm going to get ready damn fast. That's my child... O_O I'm going to raise it to the best of my ability I had a hand in his/her conception so she/he is my responsibility. Just my way of looking at it.. But everyone has their own way of thinking and their own way of making choices I know your choice might vary from mine and another guy's choice might vary from mine... .-.

 

[sG Taka]

Okay how about this, what if the mother is thinking only emotionally about getting the abortion? (You know hormones are crazy around this time). What about mental capabilities? What if the mother doesn't have a clear picture of whats going on or what is the bigger picture? If the mother has all the options, knows the facts then...but does that every happen?

lol and thanks

That could go both ways. I don't quite understand what you're trying to say. Do you mean to say that since there are so many things the mother could no take into consideration, abortion should not be a choice?

 

[Piccolosan]

That could go both ways. I don't quite understand what you're trying to say? Do you mean to say that since there are so many things the mother could no take into consideration, abortion should not be a choice?

You are saying its the mother's choice but I say what if her credibility is bad. What if she chooses for all the wrong reasons or is ignorant of some information that could effect her choice...

 

[Gin-San]

Good points, but the whole discussion thing is pretty much everywhere online, but yet we still make vs. threads and everything. I want to see people's opinions on the matter. It will lead nowhere, but at least I learn something :shrug:

The problem is that many people in these type of discussions are leniant to be biased. Bias in a decision is greatly affected by society, religion, and your own thought proccess.
Narutobase is just not a good place to discuss these type of threads. Many of the user's are still below the age of eighteen, thus not having a grasp of what the world is. Also, because people can safely hide behind a monitor, they are much more incited to answer with flames, insults or just non-serious dialogue (in other words, being a troll).
Yes, you may be able to absorb some knowledge from this discussion, but you have to realize that your absorbing biased information.

 

[Dragonfly X]

The problem is that many people in these type of discussions are leniant to be biased. Bias in a decision is greatly affected by society, religion, and your own thought proccess.
Narutobase is just not a good place to discuss these type of threads. Many of the user's are still below the age of eighteen, thus not having a grasp of what the world is. Also, because people can safely hide behind a monitor, they are much more incited to answer with flames, insults or just non-serious dialogue (in other words, being a troll).
Yes, you may be able to absorb some knowledge from this discussion, but you have to realize that your absorbing biased information.

But then again, I wasn't out for information in the terms of factual 100% based information. I would've looked it up on many of the reputable sites. Le wiki, jk, lol xd But seriously, I was looking for a general opinions and thoughts on the matter. Whether it is biased or not, most stuff from people is, but it is still interesting to me. Of course people are going to be biased, on a personal matter it is almost a given. Whether or not they are isn't really that important to me. And yes, I thought about the flaming but considering what I expected, the flaming isn't that bad.

 

[Narubro]

The problem is that many people in these type of discussions are leniant to be biased. Bias in a decision is greatly affected by society, religion, and your own thought proccess.
Narutobase is just not a good place to discuss these type of threads. Many of the user's are still below the age of eighteen, thus not having a grasp of what the world is. Also, because people can safely hide behind a monitor, they are much more incited to answer with flames, insults or just non-serious dialogue (in other words, being a troll).
Yes, you may be able to absorb some knowledge from this discussion, but you have to realize that your absorbing biased information.

even the bias of the bias is in fact, biased

 

[MissRed]

Yes, I could also say I would have more money if not for that robber. Or I would have had a better relationship with my mom if that murderer didn't kill her...whats your point?

My point is my right to abort if it ever comes to that point is completely up to me and shouldn't be taken away. I'm a complete stranger so my decision shouldn't affect most people.

 

[Piccolosan]

My point is my right to abort if it ever comes to that point is completely up to me and shouldn't be taken away. I'm a complete stranger so my decision shouldn't affect most people.

Agreed, but it does effect other people. Also you said most...that would mean more than 50% of the population, that's over 3.5 billion people O_O

 

[TheOrangeSage]

abortion is an escape for a coward.

Say the female was raped, maybe drugged at a party, are you going to call her a coward if she wants an abortion???

 

[sG Taka]

You are saying its the mother's choice but I say what if her credibility is bad. What if she chooses for all the wrong reasons or is ignorant of some information that could effect her choice...

This could apply both to her choice of having the baby or aborting it. It's risk everyone takes in mostly all decisions they take in life.

For example:

1) Let's say the mum chooses to abort solely because she thinks that she might die if she gives birth. She aborts. Turns out later that she wouldn't of died and she could've sent the kid up for adoption. Bad choice.

2) Let's say the mum chooses to have the baby and put him up for adoption. The mum dies and she accidentally sends him to a home where he gets molested and neglected. Bad choice, or at least not the best one.

In short, what your asking me applies to any choice the mum makes, and since the mum will never be 100% fully informed and aware of every possible detail and outcome, that is a reality we have to face.

 

[Piccolosan]

Say the female was raped, maybe drugged at a party, are you going to call her a coward if she wants an abortion???

cow·ard   [kou-erd] Show IPA
noun
1.
a person who lacks courage in facing danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc.; a timid or easily intimidated person.

I am sure she is scared for her future...so technically yes she is a coward.

 

[MissRed]

Agreed, but it does effect other people. Also you said most...that would mean more than 50% of the population, that's over 3.5 billion people O_O

It effects the people that think it's wrong, but then again, you can't tell a woman had an abortion by looking at them. Oh, then a lot of people? 99.9% of people. I tried to word it the best way I could.

 

[Piccolosan]

This could apply both to her choice of having the baby or aborting it. It's risk everyone takes in mostly all decisions they take in life.

For example:

1) Let's say the mum chooses to abort solely because she thinks that she might die if she gives birth. She aborts. Turns out later that she wouldn't of died and she could've sent the kid up for adoption. Bad choice.

2) Let's say the mum chooses to have the baby and put him up for adoption. The mum dies and she accidentally sends him to a home where he gets molested and neglected. Bad choice, or at least not the best one.

In short, what your asking me applies to any choice the mum makes, and since the mum will never be 100% fully informed and aware of every possible detail and outcome, that is a reality we have to face.

So would you agree if we have a department who calculate all options and risks and they will make the correct decision?

 

[Gin-San]

I see where your coming from but answer this, does a different angle on a situation make it right or wrong? Im sure some people thought Hitler was morally right in his genocide of Jews, does that make it right?

Well, your using a terrible example to compare abortion. Comparing abortion with the Holocaust its just not possible, as both have way different circunstances. But let's play your game with some variables.

1) Let's say the Axis powers won WW2, thus Nazism took control over the world. Nazis then would have preached that killing the Jews was the only way to save humanity, or whatever you can think of. Since the moment you are born, you will be subjugated to the idea that killing Jews was the right choice because of certain circunstances. If your parents have been taught that killing the Jews was the right thing, and you keep being pressured by all society that it was, its really likely that you will accept it also.

2) Let's say we are able to see in the future and Nazis are able to understand that Jews one day will try to dominate the world, killing off all races. Nazis then take a strike against this to stop an outcome of utter disaster, destroying the problem before it arises, making them look like enemies. This is a terrible example, but I hope you get the point.

If you see, many will have different viewpoints of this situation, but because this situation has already been solved in the past, we view the Holocaust as a terrible action of the Nazis. Abortion though is different, because we aren't able to have identical circunstances and will always have the uncertanty in every situation.

Note:
In no way I'm supporting Nazism.

 

[sG Taka]

So would you agree if we have a department who calculate all options and risks and they will make the correct decision?

Woah woah woah..that's a very out-of-the blue idea. But, in theory it might work, but just like communism, I highly doubt it will work when put to practice. lol Do you know how many things it would have to calculate? Almost infinite..and I'm not talking about numbers.

 

[Piccolosan]

Well, your using a terrible example to compare abortion. Comparing abortion with the Holocaust its just not possible, as both have way different circunstances. But let's play your game with some variables.

1) Let's say the Axis powers won WW2, thus Nazism took control over the world. Nazis then would have preached that killing the Jews was the only way to save humanity, or whatever you can think of. Since the moment you are born, you will be subjugated to the idea that killing Jews was the right choice because of certain circunstances. If your parents have been taught that killing the Jews was the right thing, and you keep being pressured by all society that it was, its really likely that you will accept it also.

2) Let's say we are able to see in the future and Nazis are able to understand that Jews one day will try to dominate the world, killing off all races. Nazis then take a strike against this to stop an outcome of utter disaster, destroying the problem before it arises, making them look like enemies. This is a terrible example, but I hope you get the point.

If you see, many will have different viewpoints of this situation, but because this situation has already been solved in the past, we view the Holocaust as a terrible action of the Nazis. Abortion though is different, because we aren't able to have identical circunstances and will always have the uncertanty in every situation.

Note:
In no way I'm supporting Nazism.

What I am saying is that there is a right and wrong, it doesn't matter what view you look at it. Of course its hard to see it that way because like you said about being biased.
An example is this, is slavery okay? Does it change if we ask now or 300 years ago? Maybe opinion changes but it is still wrong now and it is wrong in the past.

 

[TheOrangeSage]

cow·ard   [kou-erd] Show IPA
noun
1.
a person who lacks courage in facing danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc.; a timid or easily intimidated person.

I am sure she is scared for her future...so technically yes she is a coward.

True, but it's not like it was her choice

 

[Piccolosan]

Woah woah woah..that's a very out-of-the blue idea. But, in theory it might work, but just like communism, I highly doubt it will work when put to practice. lol Do you know how many things it would have to calculate? Almost infinite..and I'm not talking about numbers.

But we have supercomputers that calculate millions of things at once, it could be possible.