Itachi vs minato not agian.
Lets begin minato is higly intellegent, strong, and his got pretty good speed. He lived in the era of the 1st and soon become hokage. Sice he is always near the oppnent, it points out he wa good in taijutsu, also since he created the rasangun and demon seal it points out he was good In jinjutsu. Sice he was teaching a sharingun user (obito) he would have picked up a few tricks. Since he accelerated and grow in both ninjutsu and taijutsu i think its safe to say he also increased his genjutsu capabilities since he was the smart calculating type of person.
Susonno is not invincable, remeber the 1st hokage fought madara with the EMS and yet come out the winner. With all madaras tech he still lost. In the naruto world tech and abilities are nothing but an advantage, Also everything and anything is possible. Iam not a minato fan however i like to give credit where it is due. Every ninja has a chance of winning thats how i look at things.
The quote that well fit just right is " it's not what you have it's how you use it"
This is just a theroy. Minato put a seal on tobi to break the genjutsu to free the nine tails, maybe minato created a seal to break him out of genjutsu or to warn him. This is just a theroy so Please do not flame. And it is some what possible since he created the rasangun and the demon seal.
I don't think Minato has to look into Itachi's eyes to notice from the corner of his eye that huge black flames are spewing from above Itachi's neck. & even if he notices late, he is so fast with his FTG that he'd be able to teleport out of the way. & If Itachi has to break the genjutsu while throwing a kunai or moving and stabbing Minato and disrupts his chakra flow, the same thing would happen. Minato would probably dodge. I like both characters, but it is way too obvious you're extremely biased toward Itachi, and we haven't even seen enough Minato fights to know his true ability level, only rumors and two really short battles. I'd be willing to bet that if the two somehow fought in the afterlife or whatever that it'd be a damn good fight.
& also, when talking about "spamming" jutsus or other abilities, both of them spam. Minato with FTG and Itachi with using his genjutsu. Most characters "spam" jutsus anyway.
I don't think Minato has to look into Itachi's eyes to notice from the corner of his eye that huge black flames are spewing from above Itachi's neck. & even if he notices late, he is so fast with his FTG that he'd be able to teleport out of the way. & If Itachi has to break the genjutsu while throwing a kunai or moving and stabbing Minato and disrupts his chakra flow, the same thing would happen. Minato would probably dodge. I like both characters, but it is way too obvious you're extremely biased toward Itachi, and we haven't even seen enough Minato fights to know his true ability level, only rumors and two really short battles. I'd be willing to bet that if the two somehow fought in the afterlife or whatever that it'd be a damn good fight.
& also, when talking about "spamming" jutsus or other abilities, both of them spam. Minato with FTG and Itachi with using his genjutsu. Most characters "spam" jutsus anyway.
I stoped reading when you said minato would notice from the corner of his eye.Ummm do you know where the corner of your eye is located?Im not on anyones side but im starting to notice how wild and crazy fans of minato can be.It is impossible to see above you when your looking down at someones feet.Especially trying to look at the corners of your eyes when the flames are in front of you or behind you(Speaking from clone perspective).Even at that in order to see amatertsu he would have to look into itachi's eyes.That means instant genjutsu or tsukyomi( how ever you spell it).
I will say it again their is no way for minato to be at an advantage.If he looks in his eyes it will be genjutsu if he looks away he will burn.Can't win a fight looking at someones feet.Also the blind can't fight what they cannot hear or feel.Case closed with this minato vs itachi threads.
You people preach about minato being able to vs high tier ninjas based on 3 feats he has that kishi has showed us.The only reason that is capable is the fact that he is hyped off his mothers ass.I like minato's style because it reminds me of my favorite animal the cheetah.Fast but also weak.Whats a cheetah vs a lion?Lion wins and to put it in narutoverse language.Itach( the lion) vs minato( the cheetah).The lion has power and defence over the cheetahs cunning and speed.In the end whats the use of fighting someone you can't hurt and he knows your every move.That defeats the purpose of your speed.Speed is meant to be used to be unknown.In meaning being in a unknown location at any given time.
One thing i know that will defeat all the ftg kunai is a firball jutsu and let it burn.Simple,easy,and not chakra consuming.Once ftg kunai's are gone their are only 3 things left....his base speed,rasengan,and sealing jutsu (summonings are useless due to itachi's sharnigan).Sealing jutsu is useless..like what the hell is their to seal?The only logical seal is the Reaper Death Seal that will end it in a tie.His base speed will fail..why?Mainly because 1.Looking at itachi's feet that means he will burn 2.looking in itachis eyes that means he will be under genjutsu.Itachi will be able to gain distance and use genjutsu and i will leave it at that mainly because blaze explained everything.
you have no proof that FTG does not work while under genjutsu.....no hand seals needed for FTG only a seal (somewhere) and the ability to think which has been shown that you still think regularly while under ANY genjutsu...
the rest of your argument is very very sound
and based on everything you said I now think Itachi would probably beat Minato
(Itachi's ability to reflect FTG kunai is what changed my mind)
What i will like to say first of all is that im going to explain 3 scenarios.
The first one being genjutsu rendering ftg useless thus minato is vulnerable to real life attacks.
In all these instances, its bloodlust, meaning both characters can use their strongest attacks to finish of the match and from what we have seen from itachi's he isnt afraid to use the ms from the get of
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After all what we have seen from both, they like to end their matches pretty quickly.
Scenario 1, ftg useless under genjutsu;
From what we know both characters a close range fighters as seen in all their fights. They arent long range fighters like gaara, diedora, etc.....
Now in all of itachi's fights he has used genjutsu from the start. He has demonstrated 3 forms of simple genjutsu.
The first one being a paralyses genjutsu he used on oro;
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Oro who has a 5/5 and a genius was caught in a paralyses genjutsu. When he was about to dispell it he got his hand cut. Itachi shouldve amaterasu'ed the bastard or cut of his head instead of his hand. As you can see genjutsu renders the opponent vulnerable to real life attacks.
Madara has demonstrated a similar paraylses genjutsu which again render the opponent vulnerable to real life attacks;
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Kurenai arugable konoha's best genjutsu user, tried a genjutsu on itachi and itachu countered it and put her in a state where she had to play the defensive;
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Even though itachi countered the genjutsu, since kurenai is the one who utilised it she already knew that she was in a genjutsu and dispelled it. Even after she dispelled it in time she was vulnerable to a real life attack;
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In the link above as i said kurenai was vulnerable to real life attack. She did break the genjutsu in time since she created it and she knew she was in one, but the most important this is that she even though she blocked itachi's kick, it showed us that not even her was able to dispel it in time and evade that kick at all. Now if this was bloodlust itachi he couldve amaterasu'd her instead tried to kick her in the face
The next genjutsu itachi has displayed is a genjutsu that is so real that, the user doesnt even know that he is in one as demonstrated with deidora. In the genjutsu everything in the real world was exactly the same, including the setting. This is what fooled deidora.
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Deidora was fooled from the start because the genjutsu was so real. As you also saw he nearly blew himself up in the real world. Again genjutsu renders the opponent vulnerable to real life attacks.
The third genjutsu itachi has shown us is when he can burst into crows at will. He has demonstrated to be able to do this in real life but also in a genjutsu.
Genjutsu crow;
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After their genjutsu duel, the real life battle started and even then itachi could still burst into crows in real life at will;
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As i said both fighters are short range/mid range fighters and ill show you links to demonstrate this. Ive already shown you two links of itachi being a short range fighter and this was him vs oro and him vs deidora. Notice the distance between him and his opponent, then notice the distance between minato and his opponents.
More images of itachi being a short range fighter;
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Now ill show links of minato being a short range fighter. Its actually obvious because in all his fights, either in the war or against A or tobi, he has used ftg to in close in order to use a kunai or ransegan. Either way ill show you links;
Notice the space gap between him and tobi;
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Similarly the space gap between him and A and notice the time he spams ftg kunai's
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From what weve have seen both are short/mid range fighters. In all of itachi's encounters he has used genjutsu from the start. What im trying to say is that, tack tobi/A out of the picture and include itachi instead. The chances are minato would be in a genjutsu from the start even before he can spam ftg kunai.
Once in a genjutsu as i said he is vulnerable to attacks. In order for him to use ftg he has to dispell the genjutsu that same second or else in that second it takes him to try and get out of a paralyses genjutsu or a genjutsu that seems so real that, he doesnt know that he is in one, itachi can use any technique he wants in real life to end the fight.
Ill give you two scenario's of other genjuitsu's itachi has demonstrated that copied the real life so much that it fooled his opponents. They didnt even know that they were in a genjutsu;
Genjustu was so real naruto thought it was real life;
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In the link below itachi saying wont/cannot use the ms on naruto, due to him being a 30% clone or because he obviously doenst want to physical hurt/capture naruto. This link proves that if itachi really wanted to hurt naruto and he wasnt a 30% clone, he couldve easily used the ms on him in real life because he is vulnerable to real life attacks, as ive proved earlier;
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Similar sasuke got caught in a genjutsu that seemed so real that it fooled him;
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In all the links above ive showed yout that both are close range fighters. Also showed you that itachi can make either paralysis his opponents and with this are vulnerable to real life attacks, but also he can make his genjutsu so real that his opponents wouldnt even know that they are in one. Minato would be caught in a genjutsu even before he spams his ftg, whilst in this genjutsu and he doesnt realise, he is vulnerable to real life attacks.
This can be amaterasu, tsukuyomi, cut minato's hand off the same way he did to oro or seal him with the totsuka sword in real life whilst he is still trying to figure out whether he is a genjutsu or not. Or him in the process of trying to dispell the genjutsu.
Talking about the totsuka sword. Poepl underestimate its speed. It caught both oro and nagato in the middle of a speech. Similar in the process of minato trying to dispel the genjutsu, it will also pierce him;
Similarly like oro didnt finish his sentence, minato wouldnt dispell the genjutsu
in tell to avoid to avoid the totsuka sword in real life;
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From the moment ct was destroyed, the sword had already peirced nagato. Similarly even before minato can try to either figure out that he is in a genjutsu or has realised and is trying to dispell it, the sword wouldve pierced him in real life even before he can dispell the genjutsu;
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Now that we know both are short/mid range fighter and we know that itachi uses genjutsu from the start. The question who do you think will be able to make the first move. The person who can catch you in a genjutsu with merely a finger, his body or his eyes or somebody who has to spam ftg tags around the area. Think its fair to say that minato would be in a genjutsu before he can most likely throw the first kunai or in the middle or spamming it.
The next question is once in a genjutsu that seems so real that he doesnt even know he is in one, how long will it take him before he realises and tried to dispel it.
If he is a paralysis genjutsu its even harder to dispel it because it paralysis the opponent. Even before he can dispell itachi couldve attacked and ended this fight, like the way he has done to ninja's above.
Alot of minato fans know this and say minato is either immune to genjutsu, he can fight long range because itachi's genjutsu ios short range. Ill tear that claim in peices, starting with minato is immune to genjutsu.
Alot of people say kage level ninja's are immune to genjutsu. Allow me to destroy not only that myth but the myth about genjutsu immunity totally.
Sarutobi a hokage getting put into genjutsu by the first hokage;
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Clearly he isnt immune to it.
Real life attacks;
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The 2nd mizukage, killed muu the 2nd tsuckage, the 2nd miukage is a genjutsu user and i have no doubt in my mind that this helped him defeat muu, both died though;
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There is also a myth around jinchircki;s being immune to genjutsu. What i will tell you know if you havent realised about naruto is that there is no such thing as invincible, immune, immortal, invisible and although minato isnt a jinchrucki i want to show you that if genjutsu works on a perfect jinchricki, its working on minato.
The 4th mizukage who was also said to be a perfect jinckrucki was controlled in a genjutsu by tobi;
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Bee was caught in a genjutsu by sasuke. It affected him as we see him on the floor but he later broke it and countered sasuke;
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Unlike sasuke, itachi actually successfully caught bee in it again;
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Now elite genjutsu user have been caught in genjutsu (kurenai, sasuke and itachi), kage level ninja's have been caught in genjutsu (oro was a hokage candidate, sarutobi, muu, itachi), geniuses have been caught in genjutsu ( sarutobi, itachi, oro), jinchrucki have been caught in genjutsu (yagura, bee), Sharigan users have been caught in genjutsu (kakashi, itachi sasuke). If in all these scenario's a these people have caught how can you possibly say minato is immune when not even the people ive named above are immune to it.
Read this thread if you want to know how dumb some minato fans are; (
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Another thing minato fans have said is that minato can stay away from itachi around (70 yards) and throw ftg kunai. They say that because they believe this way minato will not be caught in genjutsu because they believe itachi's genjutsu is short range. Not only are they being ignorant because itachi has displayed long range genjutsu but also in the manga AO says that itachi can produce long range genjutsu. Ill show you images of itachi using long range genjutsu, but also the link of Ao claims.
What people fail to realise is that before itachi met with naruto and sasuke during their pursit of him the real itachi was already at the uchiha hideout waiting for sasuke. The itachi that faced naruto and sasuke were kage bunshins, what people fail to realise is that kage bunshins can use the original techniques as naruto;s clones has showed us several times.
The itachi that put naruto in a genjutsu was a kage bunshin;
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Its this same kage bunshin that met put sasuke in a genjutsu then told him to come to the hideout;
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In the link below, sasuke finally reaches the hidout, where the real itachi was there waiting for him;
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Ao and shukaku talking;
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What minato fans either dont get or refuse to believe is that, once in a genjutsu (illusion), minato has to dispel it, before he can actually come back to real life and spam ftg tags.
In the first scenario if comes down to who would make the first move.
Itachi who genjutsu comes to him easy or minato who can spam ftg tags?. Personally i believe itachi.
The second senario would be me assuming minato has full knowledge of itachi's techniques therefore he doesnt look into his eyes when he fights and instead his feet
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Therefore he avoids eye contact, what they fail to get is that itachi doesnt even need eye contact as ive said above and demonstrated this with manga links.
There are many things wrond with this stragety. Firstly itachi doesnt need eye contact but also it leaves the opponent vulnerable to amaterasu as the link below would explain;
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How would minato know that he is about to get amateru'ed, if he cannot see above itachi's chin, as this link proves;
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Now if minato is looking at itachi's eyes he would no doubt be able to evade amaterasu, but if he cannot see it he cannot evade it. You cannot evade something you cannot see.
A was able to see sasuke's eyes and evade it;
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If minato is looking at his feet he cannot evade it as ive said, in order to evade it you have to be able to see it. As ive demonstrated minato either has to face the fact that he has look into itachi's eyes and fight, therefore tsukuyomi is on the card. If he decides to use gai's counter, its useless because itachi can still use genjutsu but also, he would be able to use amaterasu.
So how would minato fight this one.
Now what minato fans forget is that minato doesnt have infinite ftg kunai's he would run out of kunai's to through depending on how many he has. Minato fans say he would stand 70 yards and spam kunai, what they forget is that even if itachi's doenst know of ftg, if somebody throws a kunai at you you would obviously counter it. What i would also say is that if itachi can counter the kunai's even before it gets half way between him and minato, he is out of range of the ftg kunai's.
Do i believe itachi can counter all those kunai's?, off course. He is arguably the best kunai/shuriken thrower in the series.
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Minato fans say he would avoid close range due to genjutsu and spam ftg from long range. Well itachi's genjutsu are long range, but also those ftg kunai's wouldnt reach him because as ive showed you he would counter all of them even before it reaches him.
Now if does try close range, he would be an easier target for genjutsu but again his ftg tags would be countered.
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In long range its a pointless fight for minato, In short range he has a chance but also pointless because, ftg kunai's would be countered but also genjutsu is on the cards.
Whilst itachi is countering minato's kunai's he has shown to be so fast with handseals that he can counter every kunai and create a clone
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If minato was to rasengan itachi its highly possible that he will disperse into a flock of frows and tsukuyomi;
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Scenario 2 summary. In close range itachi has the advantage as ive described in scenario 1. In scenario 2 were minato has knowledge of itachi's techs and avoid close range and chooses long range as minat fans say, he is still as a disadvantage because at long range ftg kunai's would be countered even easier, he can still be put under genjutsu. If he tries gai's counter to the sharigan, he is vulnerable to amaterasu and if he chooses to ignore gai's counter and fight whilst looking at itachi, he can evade amaterasu but all of itachi;s other techniques/genjutsu will affect him regardless.
The final scenario is that both have full knowledge of each others techniques.
How would he fight, becaue in senario 1 its close range he is at a disadvantage as its shwoed you. In long range he is also at a disadvantage as ive showed you even if he has info on itachi.
Now if itachi can counter all of those ftg tags and isnt in range of him, minato doesnt have an ftg tag close to itachi to teleport to him and obviously minato doesnt have an infinite ftg kunai. Meaning once all those kunai's have been countered and itachi is out of range of the ftg seals, does it come down to a true fight, since minato wouldnt be given the time to try and regain his ftg kunai in order to spam it again.
Once he has finished with his kunai's and the tag still isnt in range of itachi, he has to fight using his base speed. To all the minato fans out there he didnt get his nickname, yellow flash due to his base speed but rather ftg
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Now what people seem to forget is that his base speed in high speed movement. Shunshin no jutsu as ive been said several times. Majority of ninja's who have high speed movement use this technique. I'll decode the difference betwee minato base speed, ftg and A's raiton armour.
Now A also uses shunshin (body flciker), but his body flicker isnt as fast as base minato. Its still fast as zetsu said. This is base A vs base minato.
Base A is noted to be very fast as Zetsu said;
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Still not fast enough against minato's base speed even if both use the shunshin no jutsu.
A in v1 raiton is the same speed as base minato, because he combines his shunshin no jutsu with raiton, whilst in minato's case its just shunshin but minato's shunshin as ive said is faster therefore the combination of A is shunsin and raiton v1 makes it on par with it.
As madara said, the lightning release body flicker;
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In v1 A and minato's base speed are the same. In v2 his speed is faster than minato. He has heard of A and has acknwloedged his speed;
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Thats why in the next page he decided to spam ftg, because A went v2 straight away and minato's base speed isnt as on par with v2, whilst ftg is faster than v2.
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Its because of ftg that allowed him to evade it;
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Basically what im trying to say is that;
Minato's shunshin (base speed)> A (base speed)
Minato's base speed = A raiton v1
A raiton v2 > minato's base speed
Ftg > A v2 raiton
Now that we have already established that in the 3 rd senario if itachi counters all the ftg kunai's and obviously minato doesnt have an infinite amount, he would have to fight using his base speed, especially if his ftg kunai's are out of itachi's range. Neither will he have the time to go on his kees and try to recover some of his ftg kunai's to use again. Therefore whilst he can use his base speed for offence, he can use ftg for defence because he can teleport back to where those kunai's are, but then again genjutsu is available to itachi to use if minato's teleports back to where the kunais are. That of course on how which stragety he plans on using against itachi. Looking at his feet and being amaterasu'ed or looking at his eyes and the possibility of tsukuyomi?.
Anyway now that we have seen that minato's base speed = A v1 raiton, although its still fast i can see itachi living with him.
Sasuke was able to keep up with A in v1 raiton, but also wound him.
This shows sasuke's speed (4.5/5) and reflexes ability
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Sasuke's reflexes and speed is great but not compared to itachi's. Although able to evade be's assault, he still got wounded;
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Now there is a reason why itachi has a 5/5 for speed in the data book. His reflexes and speed is greater than sasuke's.
Able to keep up with km naruto;
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Evaded both him and bee's attack;
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Evaded the same attack sasuke did, but in his case he wasnt injured at all;
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Now, im not saying itachi base = minato's base. What im saying is that he himself is no slow turtule. He has demonstrated many speed feats in the manga and deserves kishi rating of a 5/5 for speed. His speed and reflexes are faster than sasuke's.
Now bee was able to counter ftg in time in the sense that he had a knife at minato's belly.
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Now im not saying base itachi speed is ftg speed, but in this image bee wasnt able to counter the same way he did to minato;
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If itachi can get out of reach of those ftg kunai's, afterall if those kunai's do not reach the target minato also doesnt meaning that minato has to use his base speed as his main offence and ftg as his defence because at least he can teleport back to where his ftg markings are, itachi has a great chance to win this, because even if he does teleport back to where the tags are, itachi's genjutsu is long range, he still has ways to attack minato whilst minato doesnt. Not to forget he either has to chose to look at itachi's feet when he fights therefoer amarasu is on the card, If he doesnt and looks in his eyes tsukuyomis is on the card. If itachi can counter all those ftg tags and leave enough space between himself and those tags, im sure he can deal with minato's base speed not to forget he is at the advantage due to minato either not looking into his eyes or looking into his eyes. He still has long and short range attacks. In the form of defence, he can create a clone, that if gets hit he disperse. He still has susano if needed.
Minato fans are clearly biting more than they can chew, calling me out. successfully champion scenario 1. Doubt anybody would get past it LOGICALLY let alone 2 and even 3. You minato fans are clearly biting more than you can chew, running before you can walk.
This isnt a vs thread. Its just for my convenience in future debates.
If you plan on debating feel free but if it isnt worthy of a responce ill ignore it
u r totally biases toward itachi making him favourable in every scenerio. once u mentioned about minato couldnt use more kunai beacuse he has limited kunai but did u ever read your thread , your thread is suggesting that itachi can use tsukuyomi, amatersau, ssusanoo, shadow clones for the whole day as if he will never run out of chakras.
even how arrogant and audacious u r to say itachi can read and track minato's base speed.let alone FTG. did u forgotten about sasuke vs gai match. having sharingan and predecting moves doesnot mean that itachi can react his body to the speed of minato's attack
and how on earth itachi can always cast genjutusu and minato at first . i dont see it happen instead minato is too cleaver enough to analyze the battle field first and then track down itachi before itachi ever notice him.
itachi isnt the only shadow clone user , i bet minato's shadow clone is enough for fighting itachi beacuse u cant cast genjutus on shadow clones. and since minato's chakra>>>>>> itachi's chakra so all minato will have to wear and tear down itachi.
i got a lot of this to tell but wait for my thread.
u are wrong from many perpectives wait for my thread i will demolish u totally.
:flaw:
You put some thought into this. Everything made sense but note that the times Itachi has turned into crows, his opponents were already in his genjutsu so I don't think he can turn to crows outside of his genjutsu.
You put some thought into this. Everything made sense but note that the times Itachi has turned into crows, his opponents were already in his genjutsu so I don't think he can turn to crows outside of his genjutsu.
you have no proof that FTG does not work while under genjutsu.....no hand seals needed for FTG only a seal (somewhere) and the ability to think which has been shown that you still think regularly while under ANY genjutsu...
the rest of your argument is very very sound
and based on everything you said I now think Itachi would probably beat Minato
(Itachi's ability to reflect FTG kunai is what changed my mind)
even naruto had the time to release his chakra because all his partners where standing with him in real time...itachi was trying to put him to sleep to at least reduce the team number into 3 unfortunately his genjutsu was stopped by sakura and chiyo by inserting chakra into him...BOTTOMLINE, in real time itachi is not moving because he's trying to control naruto's mind...
you have no proof that FTG does not work while under genjutsu.....no hand seals needed for FTG only a seal (somewhere) and the ability to think which has been shown that you still think regularly while under ANY genjutsu...
the rest of your argument is very very sound
and based on everything you said I now think Itachi would probably beat Minato
(Itachi's ability to reflect FTG kunai is what changed my mind)
Um well actually genjutsu affects the senses through chakra manipulation. The victim isn't really in control of their own chakra. That is why they have to have excellent chakra control to disrupt their own chakra flow to break out of it.
So using a jutsu while under genjutsu is practically impossible. As we have seen, people have been in genjutsus and think that they are using jutsus, when in fact they are just standing there. The only case of a jutsu being used while inside of a genjutsu is Deidara's clay bombs and that is because Itachi wanted Deidara to trap himself.
Um well it is obvious that you are just a Minato hater. I gave a much, much better argument than this earlier.
Well my argument was only if Minato could break out of Itachi's regular genjutsu, because that is how I think Itachi would win, but still. My argument for if that happened was actually realistic and used abilities and facts shown or said in the manga.
WTF is this fanboy talking about? **** that health, kishi made him that way because that is his character's limitation...review the manga and anime and you'll see jounin level characters touching him and countering his jutsus...
What i will like to say first of all is that im going to explain 3 scenarios.
The first one being genjutsu rendering ftg useless thus minato is vulnerable to real life attacks.
In all these instances, its bloodlust, meaning both characters can use their strongest attacks to finish of the match and from what we have seen from itachi's he isnt afraid to use the ms from the get of
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After all what we have seen from both, they like to end their matches pretty quickly.
Scenario 1, ftg useless under genjutsu;
From what we know both characters a close range fighters as seen in all their fights. They arent long range fighters like gaara, diedora, etc.....
Now in all of itachi's fights he has used genjutsu from the start. He has demonstrated 3 forms of simple genjutsu.
The first one being a paralyses genjutsu he used on oro;
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Oro who has a 5/5 and a genius was caught in a paralyses genjutsu. When he was about to dispell it he got his hand cut. Itachi shouldve amaterasu'ed the bastard or cut of his head instead of his hand. As you can see genjutsu renders the opponent vulnerable to real life attacks.
Madara has demonstrated a similar paraylses genjutsu which again render the opponent vulnerable to real life attacks;
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Kurenai arugable konoha's best genjutsu user, tried a genjutsu on itachi and itachu countered it and put her in a state where she had to play the defensive;
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Even though itachi countered the genjutsu, since kurenai is the one who utilised it she already knew that she was in a genjutsu and dispelled it. Even after she dispelled it in time she was vulnerable to a real life attack;
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In the link above as i said kurenai was vulnerable to real life attack. She did break the genjutsu in time since she created it and she knew she was in one, but the most important this is that she even though she blocked itachi's kick, it showed us that not even her was able to dispel it in time and evade that kick at all. Now if this was bloodlust itachi he couldve amaterasu'd her instead tried to kick her in the face
The next genjutsu itachi has displayed is a genjutsu that is so real that, the user doesnt even know that he is in one as demonstrated with deidora. In the genjutsu everything in the real world was exactly the same, including the setting. This is what fooled deidora.
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Deidora was fooled from the start because the genjutsu was so real. As you also saw he nearly blew himself up in the real world. Again genjutsu renders the opponent vulnerable to real life attacks.
The third genjutsu itachi has shown us is when he can burst into crows at will. He has demonstrated to be able to do this in real life but also in a genjutsu.
Genjutsu crow;
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After their genjutsu duel, the real life battle started and even then itachi could still burst into crows in real life at will;
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As i said both fighters are short range/mid range fighters and ill show you links to demonstrate this. Ive already shown you two links of itachi being a short range fighter and this was him vs oro and him vs deidora. Notice the distance between him and his opponent, then notice the distance between minato and his opponents.
More images of itachi being a short range fighter;
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Now ill show links of minato being a short range fighter. Its actually obvious because in all his fights, either in the war or against A or tobi, he has used ftg to in close in order to use a kunai or ransegan. Either way ill show you links;
Notice the space gap between him and tobi;
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Similarly the space gap between him and A and notice the time he spams ftg kunai's
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From what weve have seen both are short/mid range fighters. In all of itachi's encounters he has used genjutsu from the start. What im trying to say is that, tack tobi/A out of the picture and include itachi instead. The chances are minato would be in a genjutsu from the start even before he can spam ftg kunai.
Once in a genjutsu as i said he is vulnerable to attacks. In order for him to use ftg he has to dispell the genjutsu that same second or else in that second it takes him to try and get out of a paralyses genjutsu or a genjutsu that seems so real that, he doesnt know that he is in one, itachi can use any technique he wants in real life to end the fight.
Ill give you two scenario's of other genjuitsu's itachi has demonstrated that copied the real life so much that it fooled his opponents. They didnt even know that they were in a genjutsu;
Genjustu was so real naruto thought it was real life;
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In the link below itachi saying wont/cannot use the ms on naruto, due to him being a 30% clone or because he obviously doenst want to physical hurt/capture naruto. This link proves that if itachi really wanted to hurt naruto and he wasnt a 30% clone, he couldve easily used the ms on him in real life because he is vulnerable to real life attacks, as ive proved earlier;
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Similar sasuke got caught in a genjutsu that seemed so real that it fooled him;
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In all the links above ive showed yout that both are close range fighters. Also showed you that itachi can make either paralysis his opponents and with this are vulnerable to real life attacks, but also he can make his genjutsu so real that his opponents wouldnt even know that they are in one. Minato would be caught in a genjutsu even before he spams his ftg, whilst in this genjutsu and he doesnt realise, he is vulnerable to real life attacks.
This can be amaterasu, tsukuyomi, cut minato's hand off the same way he did to oro or seal him with the totsuka sword in real life whilst he is still trying to figure out whether he is a genjutsu or not. Or him in the process of trying to dispell the genjutsu.
Talking about the totsuka sword. Poepl underestimate its speed. It caught both oro and nagato in the middle of a speech. Similar in the process of minato trying to dispel the genjutsu, it will also pierce him;
Similarly like oro didnt finish his sentence, minato wouldnt dispell the genjutsu
in tell to avoid to avoid the totsuka sword in real life;
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From the moment ct was destroyed, the sword had already peirced nagato. Similarly even before minato can try to either figure out that he is in a genjutsu or has realised and is trying to dispell it, the sword wouldve pierced him in real life even before he can dispell the genjutsu;
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Now that we know both are short/mid range fighter and we know that itachi uses genjutsu from the start. The question who do you think will be able to make the first move. The person who can catch you in a genjutsu with merely a finger, his body or his eyes or somebody who has to spam ftg tags around the area. Think its fair to say that minato would be in a genjutsu before he can most likely throw the first kunai or in the middle or spamming it.
The next question is once in a genjutsu that seems so real that he doesnt even know he is in one, how long will it take him before he realises and tried to dispel it.
If he is a paralysis genjutsu its even harder to dispel it because it paralysis the opponent. Even before he can dispell itachi couldve attacked and ended this fight, like the way he has done to ninja's above.
Alot of minato fans know this and say minato is either immune to genjutsu, he can fight long range because itachi's genjutsu ios short range. Ill tear that claim in peices, starting with minato is immune to genjutsu.
Alot of people say kage level ninja's are immune to genjutsu. Allow me to destroy not only that myth but the myth about genjutsu immunity totally.
Sarutobi a hokage getting put into genjutsu by the first hokage;
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Clearly he isnt immune to it.
Real life attacks;
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The 2nd mizukage, killed muu the 2nd tsuckage, the 2nd miukage is a genjutsu user and i have no doubt in my mind that this helped him defeat muu, both died though;
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There is also a myth around jinchircki;s being immune to genjutsu. What i will tell you know if you havent realised about naruto is that there is no such thing as invincible, immune, immortal, invisible and although minato isnt a jinchrucki i want to show you that if genjutsu works on a perfect jinchricki, its working on minato.
The 4th mizukage who was also said to be a perfect jinckrucki was controlled in a genjutsu by tobi;
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Bee was caught in a genjutsu by sasuke. It affected him as we see him on the floor but he later broke it and countered sasuke;
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Unlike sasuke, itachi actually successfully caught bee in it again;
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Now elite genjutsu user have been caught in genjutsu (kurenai, sasuke and itachi), kage level ninja's have been caught in genjutsu (oro was a hokage candidate, sarutobi, muu, itachi), geniuses have been caught in genjutsu ( sarutobi, itachi, oro), jinchrucki have been caught in genjutsu (yagura, bee), Sharigan users have been caught in genjutsu (kakashi, itachi sasuke). If in all these scenario's a these people have caught how can you possibly say minato is immune when not even the people ive named above are immune to it.
Read this thread if you want to know how dumb some minato fans are; (
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Another thing minato fans have said is that minato can stay away from itachi around (70 yards) and throw ftg kunai. They say that because they believe this way minato will not be caught in genjutsu because they believe itachi's genjutsu is short range. Not only are they being ignorant because itachi has displayed long range genjutsu but also in the manga AO says that itachi can produce long range genjutsu. Ill show you images of itachi using long range genjutsu, but also the link of Ao claims.
What people fail to realise is that before itachi met with naruto and sasuke during their pursit of him the real itachi was already at the uchiha hideout waiting for sasuke. The itachi that faced naruto and sasuke were kage bunshins, what people fail to realise is that kage bunshins can use the original techniques as naruto;s clones has showed us several times.
The itachi that put naruto in a genjutsu was a kage bunshin;
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Its this same kage bunshin that met put sasuke in a genjutsu then told him to come to the hideout;
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In the link below, sasuke finally reaches the hidout, where the real itachi was there waiting for him;
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Ao and shukaku talking;
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What minato fans either dont get or refuse to believe is that, once in a genjutsu (illusion), minato has to dispel it, before he can actually come back to real life and spam ftg tags.
In the first scenario if comes down to who would make the first move.
Itachi who genjutsu comes to him easy or minato who can spam ftg tags?. Personally i believe itachi.
The second senario would be me assuming minato has full knowledge of itachi's techniques therefore he doesnt look into his eyes when he fights and instead his feet
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Therefore he avoids eye contact, what they fail to get is that itachi doesnt even need eye contact as ive said above and demonstrated this with manga links.
There are many things wrond with this stragety. Firstly itachi doesnt need eye contact but also it leaves the opponent vulnerable to amaterasu as the link below would explain;
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How would minato know that he is about to get amateru'ed, if he cannot see above itachi's chin, as this link proves;
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Now if minato is looking at itachi's eyes he would no doubt be able to evade amaterasu, but if he cannot see it he cannot evade it. You cannot evade something you cannot see.
A was able to see sasuke's eyes and evade it;
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If minato is looking at his feet he cannot evade it as ive said, in order to evade it you have to be able to see it. As ive demonstrated minato either has to face the fact that he has look into itachi's eyes and fight, therefore tsukuyomi is on the card. If he decides to use gai's counter, its useless because itachi can still use genjutsu but also, he would be able to use amaterasu.
So how would minato fight this one.
Now what minato fans forget is that minato doesnt have infinite ftg kunai's he would run out of kunai's to through depending on how many he has. Minato fans say he would stand 70 yards and spam kunai, what they forget is that even if itachi's doenst know of ftg, if somebody throws a kunai at you you would obviously counter it. What i would also say is that if itachi can counter the kunai's even before it gets half way between him and minato, he is out of range of the ftg kunai's.
Do i believe itachi can counter all those kunai's?, off course. He is arguably the best kunai/shuriken thrower in the series.
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Minato fans say he would avoid close range due to genjutsu and spam ftg from long range. Well itachi's genjutsu are long range, but also those ftg kunai's wouldnt reach him because as ive showed you he would counter all of them even before it reaches him.
Now if does try close range, he would be an easier target for genjutsu but again his ftg tags would be countered.
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In long range its a pointless fight for minato, In short range he has a chance but also pointless because, ftg kunai's would be countered but also genjutsu is on the cards.
Whilst itachi is countering minato's kunai's he has shown to be so fast with handseals that he can counter every kunai and create a clone
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If minato was to rasengan itachi its highly possible that he will disperse into a flock of frows and tsukuyomi;
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Scenario 2 summary. In close range itachi has the advantage as ive described in scenario 1. In scenario 2 were minato has knowledge of itachi's techs and avoid close range and chooses long range as minat fans say, he is still as a disadvantage because at long range ftg kunai's would be countered even easier, he can still be put under genjutsu. If he tries gai's counter to the sharigan, he is vulnerable to amaterasu and if he chooses to ignore gai's counter and fight whilst looking at itachi, he can evade amaterasu but all of itachi;s other techniques/genjutsu will affect him regardless.
The final scenario is that both have full knowledge of each others techniques.
How would he fight, becaue in senario 1 its close range he is at a disadvantage as its shwoed you. In long range he is also at a disadvantage as ive showed you even if he has info on itachi.
Now if itachi can counter all of those ftg tags and isnt in range of him, minato doesnt have an ftg tag close to itachi to teleport to him and obviously minato doesnt have an infinite ftg kunai. Meaning once all those kunai's have been countered and itachi is out of range of the ftg seals, does it come down to a true fight, since minato wouldnt be given the time to try and regain his ftg kunai in order to spam it again.
Once he has finished with his kunai's and the tag still isnt in range of itachi, he has to fight using his base speed. To all the minato fans out there he didnt get his nickname, yellow flash due to his base speed but rather ftg
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Now what people seem to forget is that his base speed in high speed movement. Shunshin no jutsu as ive been said several times. Majority of ninja's who have high speed movement use this technique. I'll decode the difference betwee minato base speed, ftg and A's raiton armour.
Now A also uses shunshin (body flciker), but his body flicker isnt as fast as base minato. Its still fast as zetsu said. This is base A vs base minato.
Base A is noted to be very fast as Zetsu said;
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Still not fast enough against minato's base speed even if both use the shunshin no jutsu.
A in v1 raiton is the same speed as base minato, because he combines his shunshin no jutsu with raiton, whilst in minato's case its just shunshin but minato's shunshin as ive said is faster therefore the combination of A is shunsin and raiton v1 makes it on par with it.
As madara said, the lightning release body flicker;
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In v1 A and minato's base speed are the same. In v2 his speed is faster than minato. He has heard of A and has acknwloedged his speed;
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Thats why in the next page he decided to spam ftg, because A went v2 straight away and minato's base speed isnt as on par with v2, whilst ftg is faster than v2.
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Its because of ftg that allowed him to evade it;
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Basically what im trying to say is that;
Minato's shunshin (base speed)> A (base speed)
Minato's base speed = A raiton v1
A raiton v2 > minato's base speed
Ftg > A v2 raiton
Now that we have already established that in the 3 rd senario if itachi counters all the ftg kunai's and obviously minato doesnt have an infinite amount, he would have to fight using his base speed, especially if his ftg kunai's are out of itachi's range. Neither will he have the time to go on his kees and try to recover some of his ftg kunai's to use again. Therefore whilst he can use his base speed for offence, he can use ftg for defence because he can teleport back to where those kunai's are, but then again genjutsu is available to itachi to use if minato's teleports back to where the kunais are. That of course on how which stragety he plans on using against itachi. Looking at his feet and being amaterasu'ed or looking at his eyes and the possibility of tsukuyomi?.
Anyway now that we have seen that minato's base speed = A v1 raiton, although its still fast i can see itachi living with him.
Sasuke was able to keep up with A in v1 raiton, but also wound him.
This shows sasuke's speed (4.5/5) and reflexes ability
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Sasuke's reflexes and speed is great but not compared to itachi's. Although able to evade be's assault, he still got wounded;
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Now there is a reason why itachi has a 5/5 for speed in the data book. His reflexes and speed is greater than sasuke's.
Able to keep up with km naruto;
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Evaded both him and bee's attack;
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Evaded the same attack sasuke did, but in his case he wasnt injured at all;
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Now, im not saying itachi base = minato's base. What im saying is that he himself is no slow turtule. He has demonstrated many speed feats in the manga and deserves kishi rating of a 5/5 for speed. His speed and reflexes are faster than sasuke's.
Now bee was able to counter ftg in time in the sense that he had a knife at minato's belly.
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Now im not saying base itachi speed is ftg speed, but in this image bee wasnt able to counter the same way he did to minato;
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If itachi can get out of reach of those ftg kunai's, afterall if those kunai's do not reach the target minato also doesnt meaning that minato has to use his base speed as his main offence and ftg as his defence because at least he can teleport back to where his ftg markings are, itachi has a great chance to win this, because even if he does teleport back to where the tags are, itachi's genjutsu is long range, he still has ways to attack minato whilst minato doesnt. Not to forget he either has to chose to look at itachi's feet when he fights therefoer amarasu is on the card, If he doesnt and looks in his eyes tsukuyomis is on the card. If itachi can counter all those ftg tags and leave enough space between himself and those tags, im sure he can deal with minato's base speed not to forget he is at the advantage due to minato either not looking into his eyes or looking into his eyes. He still has long and short range attacks. In the form of defence, he can create a clone, that if gets hit he disperse. He still has susano if needed.
Minato fans are clearly biting more than they can chew, calling me out. successfully champion scenario 1. Doubt anybody would get past it LOGICALLY let alone 2 and even 3. You minato fans are clearly biting more than you can chew, running before you can walk.
This isnt a vs thread. Its just for my convenience in future debates.
If you plan on debating feel free but if it isnt worthy of a responce ill ignore it
