Sannin Really Aren't Powerful

[Blaze Release]

None taken.

In my book, beyond kage-level means that against any of the average level kage opponents, they will stomp.


Some of the previous kages are beyond kage level. Kage level is just anyone who is strong enough to be considered for the position of "kage"



SM jiraiya = beyond kage

Nagato, RM naruto, EMS sasuke(hype) = extremely OP tier

Kabuto w/ edos, Edo madara, Tobi = god tier

In my eyes beyond kage is when you can fight all 5 kages at the same time and as i said i can only see edo madara, tobi and nagato doing this.

Sm jiraiya is kage level, not beyond. Infact i can see A beating him. If you can beat a kage, you are on kage level. If you can fight all 5 at the same time you are beyond kage level.

If you both kabuto (who hasnt shown any fighting feats what so ever), tobi and edo madara in god tier, where would you put the sage and his sons?.

 

[lanakau888]

In my eyes beyond kage is when you can fight all 5 kages at the same time and as i said i can only see edo madara, tobi and nagato doing this.

Sm jiraiya is kage level, not beyond. Infact i can see A beating him. If you can beat a kage, you are on kage level. If you can fight all 5 at the same time you are beyond kage level.

If you both kabuto (who hasnt shown any fighting feats what so ever), tobi and edo madara in god tier, where would you put the sage and his sons?.

Okay sounds good, that can be your criteria for "beyond kage" and this can be mine.

A can't beat SM jiraiya.

I won't include them because the sons don't have any feats, and we can't say that they are capable of what the father has done since the elder son doesn't even have the rinnegan.

I just leave the SO6P out since he can beat everyone based on his "moon chibaku tensei" and defeating the juubi.

 

[Blaze Release]

I won't include them because the sons don't have any feats, and we can't say that they are capable of what the father has done since the elder son doesn't even have the rinnegan.

I just leave the SO6P out since he can beat everyone based on his "moon chibaku tensei" and defeating the juubi.

The sons dont have feats but the way i see it the older sons is an overpowered edo madara and the younger son would be an extremely overpowered hashirama. What im trying to say is that, the god tier should only be saved for those 3.

Infact the god tier should only be saved for the sage. The demi god tier for his two sons

 

[lanakau888]

The sons dont have feats but the way i see it the older sons is an overpowered edo madara and the younger son would be an extremely overpowered hashirama. What im trying to say is that, the god tier should only be saved for those 3.

Infact the god tier should only be saved for the sage. The demi god tier for his two sons

nah, edo madara should be greater than the elder son for two reasons:
he possesses the powers of BOTH the elder son and younger son (Uchiha and Senju chakra), and has a greater eye than the elder son. Tobi even more so because he is edo madara + six paths of unkillable pain, gedo mazo full of juubi, and is danny phantom.

His two sons should have been surpassed. And the only difference between the sage and Madara (biologically) is that the sage was the jinchuriki of the 10 tails. He did all the feats that made him a "god" when he was the ten-tails jinchuriki. Before that he couldn't make the moon, and hadn't "surpassed all his peers."

 

[Kenpai]

Omg this guy who said the sannin are fail? WTF!

 

[Blaze Release]

nah, edo madara should be greater than the elder son for two reasons:
he possesses the powers of BOTH the elder son and younger son (Uchiha and Senju chakra), and has a greater eye than the elder son.

His two sons should have been surpassed. And the only difference between the sage and Madara (biologically) is that the sage was the jinchuriki of the 10 tails. He did all the feats that made him a "god" when he was the ten-tails jinchuriki. Before that he couldn't make the moon, and hadn't "surpassed all his peers."

Disagree. The two sons were direct descendants of the sage himself meaning their powers might even rival that of the sage although not in the same calibre.

Also madara hasnt mastered the rennigan so to say its the 10 tails that makes the difference is absurd. Mastery of the rennigan (sage)> edo madara anyday. He doent need the 10 tails or his legendary weapons that the gold and silver had.

Look at it this way. The top3 strongest or top5 depending on your list would include 3 rennigan users. All 3 havent mastered the rennigan and yet they are the strongest. The sage who mastered it alone, makes him a god. If you add the 10 tails and the legendary weapons that he posses he goes beyond all of them.

You have to remember that just because you have the sage's eyes or body or both doesnt mean you are in the same calibre as him. As its been said how poerful a technique is, is partly due to the skilfulness of the user.

 

[lanakau888]

Disagree. The two sons were direct descendants of the sage himself meaning their powers might even rival that of the sage although not in the same calibre.

and that's the only argument that supports them being stronger than madara and even you put the word "might" in there so the only support for them being stronger than edo madara is speculated hype.

The things that support edo madara is that he has a better eye and the same, powerful chakra than the elder son, and now that he has senju cells, he has the "body" of the younger son, cannon facts. They are powerful, yet incomplete, madara is complete making him> than them.

Also madara hasnt mastered the rennigan so to say its the 10 tails that makes the difference is absurd. Mastery of the rennigan (sage)> edo madara anyday. He doent need the 10 tails or his legendary weapons that the gold and silver had.

he can use preta path, which implies he can use all the other techs including chibaku tensei. Madara also has susanoo, something that the sage might not even be able to use.

Look at it this way. The top3 strongest or top5 depending on your list would include 3 rennigan users. All 3 havent mastered the rennigan and yet they are the strongest. The sage who mastered it alone, makes him a god. If you add the 10 tails and the legendary weapons that he posses he goes beyond all of them.

What does "master" even mean? Its never stated or even implied that nagato, tobi, or madara haven't "mastered" the rinnegan. its not even stated the SO6P "mastered" the rinnegan. From what we have seen, being able to use all of the 7 paths tech is the highest degree of mastery over the rinnegan, which all three of these guys have been shown, or are heavily implied to be capable of doing.

You have to remember that just because you have the sage's eyes or body or both doesnt mean you are in the same calibre as him. As its been said how poerful a technique is, is partly due to the skilfulness of the user.

Shinra tensei is shinra tensei, chibaku tensei is chibaku tensei, a rinnegan technique doesn't change depending on the skill of the user, just the amount of chakra that is pumped into it. Nagato was able to make a massive chibaku which was as large as multiple mountains, and that was after he fought the entire leaf, and he still had enough chakra to fight and revive everyone. If he had the ten-tails chakra within him, he would also be able to create a moon.

 

[xjimbox]

its all about their teem work

 

[Sage of Infinity Paths]

Sanins are powerful in some parts.Most in Physical Energy like Tsunade,Jiraya,Orochimaru.
But Akatsuki is a lot stronger and dangerous and the strongest in the Akatsuki are
-Tobi
-Sasuke(Itachi died so i don't care)
-Nagato(Died)
-Kabuto(Noob without summoning:Impure World Resurrection)

 

[vinsence]

I only came here to see that the one that made this thread was either a Sasuke or Itachi fan boy. All threads that are "This or that person is weak" when obviously they are not week are always Itachi or Susake fan boys. I'm thinking because they have night terrors of there favorites getting killed by thes betters. (and there is a long list of those)

Sasuke and Itachi are impressive just not the best. Especially not Sasuke.

 

[TrollingSage]

and that's the only argument that supports them being stronger than madara and even you put the word "might" in there so the only support for them being stronger than edo madara is speculated hype.

The things that support edo madara is that he has a better eye and the same, powerful chakra than the elder son, and now that he has senju cells, he has the "body" of the younger son, cannon facts. They are powerful, yet incomplete, madara is complete making him> than them.

he can use preta path, which implies he can use all the other techs including chibaku tensei. Madara also has susanoo, something that the sage might not even be able to use.


What does "master" even mean? Its never stated or even implied that nagato, tobi, or madara haven't "mastered" the rinnegan. its not even stated the SO6P "mastered" the rinnegan. From what we have seen, being able to use all of the 7 paths tech is the highest degree of mastery over the rinnegan, which all three of these guys have been shown, or are heavily implied to be capable of doing.


Shinra tensei is shinra tensei, chibaku tensei is chibaku tensei, a rinnegan technique doesn't change depending on the skill of the user, just the amount of chakra that is pumped into it. Nagato was able to make a massive chibaku which was as large as multiple mountains, and that was after he fought the entire leaf, and he still had enough chakra to fight and revive everyone. If he had the ten-tails chakra within him, he would also be able to create a moon.

The rinnegan like any other ninja tech, is mastered. If it wasnt an the user can automatically use all the techs that comes with it, Yahiko wouldnt have died. Or rather he would have been resurrected by Nagato, and Nagato would definitely not have resorted to Gedo Mezo to kill all those ninjas. Its so obvious Nagato didnt have those powers at that time. Which suggests there is a learning curve to the rinnegan.

 

[Blaze Release]

and that's the only argument that supports them being stronger than madara and even you put the word "might" in there so the only support for them being stronger than edo madara is speculated hype.

The things that support edo madara is that he has a better eye and the same, powerful chakra than the elder son, and now that he has senju cells, he has the "body" of the younger son, cannon facts. They are powerful, yet incomplete, madara is complete making him> than them.

he can use preta path, which implies he can use all the other techs including chibaku tensei. Madara also has susanoo, something that the sage might not even be able to use.


What does "master" even mean? Its never stated or even implied that nagato, tobi, or madara haven't "mastered" the rinnegan. its not even stated the SO6P "mastered" the rinnegan. From what we have seen, being able to use all of the 7 paths tech is the highest degree of mastery over the rinnegan, which all three of these guys have been shown, or are heavily implied to be capable of doing.


Shinra tensei is shinra tensei, chibaku tensei is chibaku tensei, a rinnegan technique doesn't change depending on the skill of the user, just the amount of chakra that is pumped into it. Nagato was able to make a massive chibaku which was as large as multiple mountains, and that was after he fought the entire leaf, and he still had enough chakra to fight and revive everyone. If he had the ten-tails chakra within him, he would also be able to create a moon.

So many mistakes. Firstly madara has gained a portion of hashirama's dna. Now we dont know whether its because of his wood release or ability to control tailed beast. Or whether thats what he needed to activate the rennign. There is specuation which suggests that one with mastery of the ems cann activate the rennigan and senju dna isnt needed.

I believe the sage has all the ems techniques aswell available to him, yes including susano. Anyway nagato has compared his chibaku tensei to that of sage and pretty much said his was pathetic. Kabuto also commented on edo madara's rennigan ability and again dismissed his in comparison to that of the sage.

I believe the rennigan has alot more powerful techniques up its sleeve and we didnt get to see nagato use this. Example being all the other chakra elements that the rennigan allows, including yin and yang. I doubt he can even use izanagi, or the creation of all things technique.

I highly doubt either edo madara or nagato can seal the 10 tailed fox into them and survive. Im pretty much sure the fuinjutsu he used mustve been a rennigan technique and i doubt either madara or nagato even knows of it.

Anway its obvious that neither can use the rennigan the same way that the sage did, but also have mastered it. You said a rennigan technique doesnt change depending on the skill of the user. I disagree. Example's sasuke's has better skill with the ms amaterasu that itachi, likewise itachi has better skill with tsukuyomi than sasuke. Tobi has better skill with izanagi than danzo. There you go, ive showed you that, its not just the technique its the user.

You are greatly underestimating the sage and his sons whislt your overestimate the nagato, madara and tobi. The fact the sage or his sons arent in this war, should show you how op they really were.

 

[lanakau888]

The rinnegan like any other ninja tech, is mastered. If it wasnt an the user can automatically use all the techs that comes with it, Yahiko wouldnt have died.

Tobi, Nagato, and Edo Madara have all mastered it to its highest degree which is being able to use the six paths. Tobi can use all the six paths, and juggle his own six jinchuriki paths, despite just recently receiving the rinnegan. Edo madara unlocked the rinnegan before his death, and still is able to use the six paths (implied).

Or rather he would have been resurrected by Nagato, and Nagato would definitely not have resorted to Gedo Mezo to kill all those ninjas. Its so obvious Nagato didnt have those powers at that time. Which suggests there is a learning curve to the rinnegan.

So by this logic, nagato should be able to use the rinnegan better than Tobi or Edo Madara. How would this look? Is nagato's human path better that Tobi's human path? Does nagato's preta path absorb better than Edo madara's? Last time I checked, both nagato summoned a boulder-sized meteor against naruto, while edo madara summoned a mountain-sized meteor.

There is no learning curve, once you can use the six paths of pain that's the highest degree in which the rinnegan can be used, any abilities beyond this is pure speculation.

 

[lanakau888]

So many mistakes. Firstly madara has gained a portion of hashirama's dna. Now we dont know whether its because of his wood release or ability to control tailed beast. Or whether thats what he needed to activate the rennign. There is specuation which suggests that one with mastery of the ems cann activate the rennigan and senju dna isnt needed.

Okay... even if we completely throw away that madara has senju cells, he still has a greater eye than the elder son.

I believe the sage has all the ems techniques aswell available to him, yes including susano. Anyway nagato has compared his chibaku tensei to that of sage and pretty much said his was pathetic. Kabuto also commented on edo madara's rennigan ability and again dismissed his in comparison to that of the sage.

I don't believe that the sage has all the ems techs. nagato didn't have them, and he only had the rinnegan, I believe the EMS techniques were born as the uchiha clan bloodline diverged, just like the byakugan. nagato could have made a moon-sized chibaku tensei if he had the ten tails chakra to power the tech.

I believe the rennigan has alot more powerful techniques up its sleeve and we didnt get to see nagato use this. Example being all the other chakra elements that the rennigan allows, including yin and yang. I doubt he can even use izanagi, or the creation of all things technique.

then you can make your argument after these techs have been shown. Just like I will make my argument that sasuke can use itachi's tsukuyomi only after it has been shown in the manga.

I highly doubt either edo madara or nagato can seal the 10 tailed fox into them and survive. Im pretty much sure they the fuinjutsu he used mustve been a rennigan technique and i doubt either madara or nagato even knows of it.

Why? Tobi is planning on being the ten-tails jinchuriki, there is nothing to suggest that madara or nagato can't do it as well.

Anway its ovbious that neither can use the rennigan the same way that the sage did, but also have mastered it. You said a rennigan technique doesnt change depending on the skill of the user. I disagree. Example's sasuke's has better skill with the ms amaterasu that itachi, likewise itachi has better skill with tsukuyomi than sasuke. Tobi has better skill with izanagi than danzo. There you go, ive showed you that, its not just the technique its the user.

You are greatly underestimating the sage and his sons whislt your overestimate the nagato, madara and tobi. The fact the sage or his sons arent in this way, should show you how op they really were.

The only hype that the sons have is "they were the sons of the sage of six paths." The elder brother has a weaker eye than madara, and madara has the younger brothers body now that he has senju cells and chakra. By feats madara is stronger than both. By hype madara is stronger than both if the only argument as to why the two brothers are stronger than madara is: "they are the sons of the SO6P."

 

[TrollingSage]

Tobi, Nagato, and Edo Madara have all mastered it to its highest degree which is being able to use the six paths. Tobi can use all the six paths, and juggle his own six jinchuriki paths, despite just recently receiving the rinnegan. Edo madara unlocked the rinnegan before his death, and still is able to use the six paths (implied).

So by this logic, nagato should be able to use the rinnegan better than Tobi or Edo Madara. How would this look? Is nagato's human path better that Tobi's human path? Does nagato's preta path absorb better than Edo madara's? Last time I checked, both nagato summoned a boulder-sized meteor against naruto, while edo madara summoned a mountain-sized meteor.

There is no learning curve, once you can use the six paths of pain that's the highest degree in which the rinnegan can be used, any abilities beyond this is pure speculation.

Eh? Edo Madara can use all six paths? Where did you get that.The only rinnengan tech we've seen him use is preta path and the boulder which if Nagato can use he wouldnt cos it will ****ing kill him.
Also I love how you conveniently ignored the best part of my argument. If there's no learning curve and Nagato could use all his techs why didnt he revive Yahiko then? Also why did he resort to Gedo Mezo when he could have just shinra tenseid them?

 

[Blaze Release]

Okay... even if we completely throw away that madara has senju cells, he still has a greater eye than the elder son.


I don't believe that the sage has all the ems techs. nagato didn't have them, and he only had the rinnegan, I believe the EMS techniques were born as the uchiha clan bloodline diverged, just like the byakugan. nagato could have made a moon-sized chibaku tensei if he had the ten tails chakra to power the tech.


then you can make your argument after these techs have been shown. Just like I will make my argument that sasuke can use itachi's tsukuyomi only after it has been shown in the manga.


Why? Tobi is planning on being the ten-tails jinchuriki, there is nothing to suggest that madara or nagato can't do it as well.



The only hype that the sons have is "they were the sons of the sage of six paths." The elder brother has a weaker eye than madara, and madara has the younger brothers body now that he has senju cells and chakra. By feats madara is stronger than both. By hype madara is stronger than both if the only argument as to why the two brothers are stronger than madara is: "they are the sons of the SO6P."

I wouldnt say the older son has a weaker eye. Sure his look similar to the rennigan but abit different, but if you add the fact that he was the direct person to received the sage's chakra aswell he should wipe the floor with edo madara.

It the ems is basically a diluted rennigan and the next stage of the ems is the rennigan then it somewhat makes sense to say a person who has mastered the rennigan can use ems techniques. Infact you can go as far as saying because the ems is a diluted rennigan it shouldnt have problems using its diluted eyes counterparts techniques.

Also take into consideration that izanagi is a rennigan technique because its ying and yang release and yet the sharigan can use it although you need senju dna. its other downside being blindless, whilst a rennigan user wouldnt need senju dna because its part of the 7 elements the rennigan can use.

Just because tobi is planning on being tobi/madara is planning on being the 10 jinchuricki doesnt mean they are gonna use the same fuinjutsu that the sage used. Also in tobi's case we dont know if he has tsukuyomi and from what weve seen his sharigan eye has the ability to teleport others, therefore for all you know its the rennigan that he plans on casting the infinite tsukuyomi with.

Also ill make a case for the younger son. Madara might have gained a portion of hashirama's cells but again his body cannot compare to the that of the younger sons's who got his directly from the sage. Also he got his life force Look at it this way the younger sons body > hashirama's body.

Also look at what the rennigan did to nagato. Not only did he became extremely skinny, but also his hair turned white

 

[lanakau888]

Eh? Edo Madara can use all six paths? Where did you get that.

he can use preta, it is implied that he can use all.

Also I love how you conveniently ignored the best part of my argument. If there's no learning curve and Nagato could use all his techs why didnt he revive Yahiko then?

Two reasons:
1) he couldn't use all six paths
2) Same reason he didn't banshou tennin konan to safety. PIS

Also why did he resort to Gedo Mezo when he could have just shinra tenseid them?

PIS, since he used shinra tensei in the battle already.

And ignoring points goes both ways my friend. The fact is that Tobi just received the rinnegan and has the ability to do things nagato couldn't do after years of training (make the six paths), and can already use all of the six paths himself.

So the curve stops at learning the six paths, that is the highest mastery of the rinnegan. Unless of course the manga reveals in the future that there are other techniques that have yet to be learned.

 

[Steinbiz]

fail thread. you clearly hate sannin and are a n uchiha-fangirl and just talk about characters you don't like in the crudest way and expect eveyone to agree and acknowledge it?

you love itachi and hate jiraiya....yeah....we get it.

 

[lanakau888]

I wouldnt say the older son has a weaker eye. Sure his look similar to the rennigan but abit different, but if you add the fact that he was the direct person to received the sage's chakra aswell he should wipe the floor with edo madara.

once again the argument is "sons are stronger than edo madara because they the sons of the SO6P, despite them having no feats, or the manga even suggesting their individual abilities be on par with their fathers."

It the ems is basically a diluted rennigan and the next stage of the ems is the rennigan then it somewhat makes sense to say a person who has mastered the rennigan can use ems techniques. Infact you can go as far as saying because the ems is a diluted rennigan it shouldnt have problems using its diluted eyes counterparts techniques.

Nagato couldn't use susanoo which is why I say the SO6P couldn't either. Also byakugan came from the rinnegan, but you wouldn't say that the rinnegan has the 360 xray vision of ONE byakugan.

Also take into consideration that izanagi is a rennigan technique because its ying and yang release and yet the sharigan can use it although you need senju dna. its other downside being blindless, whilst a rennigan user wouldnt need senju dna because its part of the 7 elements the rennigan can use.

??? okay, is this suppose to support the sons or the SO6P, because So6P can use it, but the sons can't because #1 it was directly explained that you do need both uchiha and senju chakra, and it was explained that

Just because tobi is planning on being tobi/madara is planning on being the 10 jinchuricki doesnt mean they are gonna use the same fuinjutsu that the sage used. Also in tobi's case we dont know if he has tsukuyomi and from what weve seen his sharigan eye has the ability to teleport others, therefore for all you know its the rennigan that he plans on casting the infinite tsukuyomi with.

It still doesn't take away the fact that with the juubi sealed in either nagato or madara, they have the power to replicate the SO6P's greatest feat: creating the moon. And the fact that it CAN be sealed in tobi, madara, or nagato.

Also ill make a case for the younger son. Madara might have gained a portion of hashirama's cells but again his body cannot compare to the that of the younger sons's who got his directly from the sage. Also he got his life force Look at it this way the younger sons body > hashirama's body.

Also look at what the rennigan did to nagato. Not only did he became extremely skinny, but also his hair turned white

I don't know what you are trying to prove with the nagato statement. And once again everything that you said about the younger brother is speculation, the way he "looks" means nothing in debates where feats come first and then hype. and please provide the scan comparing the son to hashirama so I can know what you are talking about.

 

[DESTRUCTO]

Alright first to the topic of this thread. The Sannins are great and extremely powerful. Just because we don't hear them sing songs of their feats, or showed Tsunade fighting a volcano doesn't leasten their strength. Just the fact that they achieved the title of Sannin from a world class ninja who thrived in a world of war is an amazing feat. Someone that your almighty Nagato couldn't beat, until he was old and pretty much gave up on life.

On to Lanakau and blaze release's argument about the rinnegan. The rinnegan comes with the six paths. How to use them and utilize them comes with training. Nagato had the ability to use all elements, but had to be taught by Jiraiya on how to use chakra in the first place, and then turn it into an element. The least experienced with the rinnegan has to be Edo Madara, since he had it for only a short time before his death. As for the sage using Susanoo, th Sage could use and do anything. He was the creator of all jutsus. If he wanted an impenatrable ghost armor with arms and weapons, I'm sure that he could just create it using his chakra. If he wanted to emit chakra from his body andf then spin really fast, he could do it. If he wanted to cast out his shadow to control someone elses movements, he could.

You get my point right?