Itachi vs Pain
- Thread starter MinatoFLASH
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other paths would get killed instantly with amaterasu and like i said b4 itachi can use genjutsu in the beginning and it is instant so almost impossible for him to miss it and the Op says it is a fight of pain vs itachi and does not say anything like deva is away or anything of that sort so no pain would likely be in genjutsu and regular sharingan to tsukiyomi is instant shown in bee vs sasuke, and kakshi also mentions that it does not take any time to actually go from regular eyes to ms. oh and "just no way" u say wow dude that is just pathetic deva just won't get hit by genjutsu that is very unlikely. and if amaterasu is shot at the other paths they can't dodge it and what preta is gonna go and absorb each one individually cos amaterasu is in different targets due to being different ppl and itachi is can still just beat him with taijutsu and his suction is not as fast as nagato it actually took him time to absorb rasen-shuriken. like i said genjutsu on deva and alll others with amaterasu, with preta being destroyed by taijutsu. its not as simple as that but just the basic outcome. not possible i have shown stuff he did in the manga and these are all possible as he has shown them on multiple occasions.
nothing really is ambiguous here he can use genjutsu on paths and genjutsu have worked aka jiraya itachi and they have are all fighting against each other so he can get him in eye contact not to mention the jutsu is way too fast for him to miss it and also there are non-eyecontact genjutsu that worked on high lvl ninjas so another option, amaterasu is fast and faster than rasen-shuriken and the paths have not shown speed feats enough to really dodge it and preta cannot absorb all at once and has to go individually resulting in itachi killing him. these are all possible outcomes and pain outdoing itachi is also possible but just less likely IMo. dude these things are possible and we have different opinions and lets just respect that and end this cos we are clearly not changing minds and this furthermore is just pointless cos we are clearly just going back and forth with same points.
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lanakau888
Active member
K how about this, you start a thread asking if amaterasu instantly kills opponents. Then you start a thread asking if tsukuyomi can be used instantly on an opponent who is not even looking into the eyes of the caster and when MS is not even activated.
I have continually refuted all your points with logical answers and you continue to abstract itachi's abilities beyond what they are shown to be capable of in the manga.
With the abilities you have given itachi, it pretty much means that itachi is the stronger than the sage of six paths since the sage would get tsukuyomi cast instantly on him at the beginning of the fight regardless of his genjutsu resistance or agility.
So let me ask you this question: who can beat itachi in your eyes?
deidara senpai
Active member
ppl like madara who have resistance to genjutsu and is even better than him considering that he can control kyubi. naruto once he gets cooperation of kyubi yea he can win, sasuke can beat him seeing that he has the same abilities and can break out of his tsukiyomi, kabuto who can beat him since he has so many kage lvl ninjas at his disposal. pain/ nagato also can beat him ceratin situations i never said they never cannot i just think itachi has the edge in winning and mintao has his chances against him too since he has one of the best jutsu and one marking can pretty much end his life. i did not give him any abilities these are shown in the manga and stated by ppl who have been under the genjutsu(aka kakashi). u refuted my points bs dude all u said he cannot even make eye contact when in all battles every opponent has and itachi has shown he is able to do in the begginig of it and has non- eye contact ones that can get high lvl shinobi while u have not done that and just said that it is "impossible to get him in genjutsu" when he can clearly do it in the beginning like he did to deidara at least back up ur statements and arguments with the manga. i have clearly supported my arguments from the manga and showed u evidence but i acknowledge that still both sides have a chance while u say itachi has no plausible way to win. pls be less biased in ur arguments. and ps itachi does not take time to go into ms he can do it pretty much at will he does it very fast it does not take time at all.
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lanakau888
Active member
So you are saying that anybody who hasn't shown genjutsu resistance will get instantly killed by itachi in a fight. This includes pretty much every single kage, minato, the sage of the six paths, etc.
Lol, SO6P. Im sure he had abilites to resist Genjutsu, since he had the 10 tails sealed inside of him which had a Sharingan eye.
And im pretty sure if Minato gets Caught in Tsukiyomi, he wont be able to do anything, inside of it, considering he has NO Sharingan, nor tailed beast creature which would probably not do anything since it's only a second to anyone else, who isn't trapped in the Genjutsu
i did not say that did i said that he has a unique one and ppl like hashirama has also a high resistance him beating madara a man who did beat madara a person who had genjutsu at a lvl to control a biju. and how are u so sure that minato does not have it(we don't kno about him fully) and minato has chances due to being skilled and very fast that it is even hard to see him let alone get him in genjutsu and he himself has almost one hit ko in which he just marks the person and they are almost instantly dead. nagato can also beat him in instances if he hid himself(the 3 paths were hidden) like he did against jiraya and can occupy him while he uses CT there are others ways he can win too but IMO i think itachi can win more. there are ways he can win also never denied that but in an all out fight i just think he will be caught in tsukiyomi. and i said a good number of ppl can beat him. there are ninjas who can beat him i never said he is the best i think him, minato and nagato/pain are along the same tier of skill and powers but in a full all out fight i believe he has a slight advantage over him. i mentioned others like sasuke, naruto, and kabuto did i not. and who told u every kage does not have genjutsu resistance we don't kno about all of em to really tell. tobirama also probavly had it considering he battled some of the most powerful uchihas aka madara, izuna are great possibilities.
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dude u have got to be kidding me man come on madara, kabuto, sasuke and naruto(when he gains cooperation of kyubi) can probably/very likely beat him. pain/nagato and minato also have good chances IMO, all 3 of them are very powerful.
lanakau888
Active member
hashirama has never shown genjutsu resistance. Minato fought madara and yet madara didn't use genjutsu on him, so why do we assume that madara used genjutsu on hashirama. Or why do we assume minato has zero genjutsu defense.
arv993, in this very thread, you said itachi can use tsukuyomi at the very beginning of the fight which deva path would be unable to avoid since he can activate mangekyou sharingan and cast the jutsu extremely quickly. This means that anybody who is not a very powerful uchiha will get instantly one-shotted by itachi regardless of how powerful he/she is and thus itachi can beat anyone except for sasuke and madara without any difficulty whatsoever.
yet itachi/sasuke supporters say that minato has never shown genjutsu defense, so simple genjutsu will dispatch him, so going by that same logic, anybody who hasn't shown genjutsu defense will get one-shotted by people as weak as kurenai.
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I never said they can't beat Itachi. I was just saying "IF" Minato in particular gets caught in Tsukiyomi, i dont think he has anything to escape, from what we've seen. Of course Naruto/sasuke pain and minato can beat him, i was just saying, idk what he would do IF" he was caught in Tsukiyomi.
lanakau888
Active member
Juubi has no genjutsu feats, and minato went up against madara, yet madara never used genjutsu on him, so going up against sharingan does not mean you have genjutsu resistance according to you guys.
And about minato getting caught in tsukiyomi, no doubt your statement is true, but what arvv is argueing is that at the very start of the fight itachi can activate his mangekyou sharingan and cast tsukuyomi on deva realm before deva can even look away. With this logic, anyone who cannot break itachi's tsukuyomi(so pretty much anyone besides sasuke and madara) will get instantly one-shotted by itachi regardless of all their other abilities giving itachi a completely easy win against opponents as strong as the any of the kage, nagato, naruto etc.
hashirama can be inferred to have it cos he fought the ultimate uchiha the only one able to control the kyubi from the uchiha and won so yea he defintely has great genjutsu resistance. no i told u not evry powerful uchiha bee got out of it he has a biju, senjus like hahsirama probably got out of it he fought madara. i do not see pain having that he is not immune to it and ppl like tobirama also have survived i clearly said ppl can beat uchihas as they are tied with senju for being one of the two strongest clans. naruto can get out of it since he has a kyubi, there are ppl who can get out of it i did not say everyone cannot i just don't see why deva would get out what resistance does he have to it. why are u trying to twist my words it is true that ppl like minato with incredible speed can also avoid it and be much harder for itachi to get him in one and would be a tough fight. i don't see his defense for it he does not posses that lvl of defense for genjutsu, does not have a biju, or speed on their levels of minato, A who would make it much harder for ppl to even keep up with him let alone put him in genjutsu which would be a much more of diffucult task. i never said he is unbeatable and there are ppl taking him on and beating him and pain is included but just has lower chances to win IMO.
lanakau888
Active member
Brother, its a full package you either take it or leave it. Hashirama has never shown genjutsu resistance, and he fought Madara. Minato has never shown genjutsu resistance and he fought Madara. Now why does Hashirama gain the ability to break out of one of the strongest genjutsu's tsukiyomi, while minato can't break out of tsukiyomi, or even itachi's regular genjutsu, since you said it affected sannin orochimaru?
I am not arguing that deva would get out of it, I am arguing that itachi wouldn't be able to activate his MS, and cast tsukuyomi in the time it takes for deva to avert his gaze from itachi, granted he is even looking into itachi's eyes at the start of the battle. If you are still going by this logic, then you are saying that itachi can one-shot without difficulty every kage except for the first, madara, sasuke, bee, and naruto. Everyone else that was not listed is completely foderized by itachi since he can and will instantly beat them right when the battle starts.
he has done that in occasions and what makes u think right of the bat that pain is gonna close his eyes and avoid eye contact completely why is he gonna just start doing that he does no kno all of itachi's abilities first of all. and there are ways he can get ppl in genjutsu stop hating i included other ppl like naruto,kabuto,madara,sasuke,hashirama(fact he beat madara is good enough proof that he is able to withstand genjutsu),minato and nagato have chances some more than others. i did not say he was god and unbeatable i can see him losing have explained even how so why do u got to hate he has shown to put ppl in genjutsu even b4 the fight just stating that. i do not say "absolutely no way itachi" can win like u do.
Well i dont even think ITachi would even do such an exhausting technique in the "beggining of an Fight". Because if he fails, he's gonna be exhausted and would put him at disadvantage.
But anybody that gets caught in Tsukiyomi wont automatcially be dead, since some people have strong thresholds and might survive, but they may be unconcisous for a while.
Besides Kage level Ninja shouldn't or most likely wouldn't understimate ITachi since, he's known for single-handely slaughtering his whole clan(People think). PLUS he's an Akatsuki member so most people would be prepared for the worst, and would probably prepare a technique in advanced for fighting the Sharingan. So It's not like ITachi is gonna automatically own everybody he fights, and he knows that, thats why he NEVER underestimates anyone, not even Kakashi. But he will put up a fight, before he dies
one shot ppl i explained why does not happen gave examples even why any of them can win. i don't have time to do this back and forth so have ur opinions on this idc i said he has done genjutsu b4 in the beginning of the battle so why can he not do it with tsukiyomi and i don't think he is gonna come into battle closing his eyes instantly either cos the amount of info they have on each other is arguable. so yes pls go have ur opinions and i have mine i have hw to do and can't just post on this thread forever so bye.
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lanakau888
Active member
Oh yes he does know about all of itachi's abilities. So are you admitting that itachi cannot activate his MS and cast genjutsu on deva path before deva closes his eyes? Being the leader of akatsuki, pain at least knows about itachi's three main MS abilities, and pain is shown to protect deva path, so he will most definitely not make it possible for deva to get tsukiyomied.
Kabuto has shown no genjutsu resistance, when the battle between kabuto and itachi starts, itachi will activate MS, instantly tsukiyomi kabuto, and itachi easily beats the second strongest current character in naruto. Minato and nagato will also get instantly tsukiyomi'ed right off the bat before they can even look away because they both have shown no genjutsu resistance, even though you claim hashirama can get out of tsukiyomi since he fought madara, yet minato can't even though he fought madara. This is all according to your logic. If you don't agree with this, then admit that itachi will not get deva in tsukiyomi and admit that itachi has little to no chance against pain. Its a full packaged deal when you make claims like those, they have to apply to all characters.