Kisame vs Jiraiya 4real

[kadowade]

Alright you know when itachi and Kisame entered the leaf village to capture naruto.
Itachi's true motive was not capturing Naruto. It was warning the elders and Danzou that he's still alive, and not to harm His younger brother sasuke,since the 3rd hokage died.
And why would itachi capture naruto. Naruto was apart of itachis back up plan, by trying to make sasuke protect the village with Shisui's Eye. He knew Sasuke and naruto was best friends and he entruseted Naruto with Shisui's eye cuz he knew sasuke would attack the village once he found out the truth and they was gonna fight and Sasuke would look at Naruto and the crow wouldve made sasuke protect the village, You see how far itachi thought ahead.

So the reason Itachi said they would draw against jiraya was cuz he dettered kisame from attacking Jiraiya, by making him seem legendary and prasing him, And making themselves seem puny, so Kisame wouldnt bother. Itachi knew if kisame attacked Jiraiya, he would have to help and kill jiraya, cuz at the time he joined Akatsuki only to spy on them cuz they was a threat to the village, So he has to make himself seem loyal or the Organisation would grow suspicious of itachi. So he didnt want kisame attacking Jirayia, Because it wouldve started a war too And they wouldve had to kill him, And itachi didnt want to kill any leaf shinobi, Thats why he spared Kakashi's life and Kurenai's. (And you already know itachi's a pasifist and hated fighting and tried to avoid it everytime)
So itachi prevented a war, Plus he was secretly working for konoha
Like seriously if you dont think itachi AND Kisame couldnt kill Jiraiya, you a STRAIGHT fan boy, sorry

Oh yea and Itachi had to save his eyes for Sasuke, and didnt want to lose Anymore vision until he fought sasuke, so therefore he didnt waste it on Jiraiya Oh yeah he was sick too so he couldnt strain his body. He had to save that strain for when he fought sasuke. So basically his purpose for living was for sasuke and the Village, he didnt even care for his own life like that

 

[deidara senpai]

I was asked to post my opinion on this thread, otherwise i would have ignored it.

Well here it is. We need to look at both abilities:

Jiraiya: sage mode, toads, fire, earth, fuuin, nin

Kisame: Samehada, sharks, water mainly

Overall i think jiraiya would win. The main reason for this is, as soon as he uses a sage jutsu and kisame tries to absorb it, samehada would turn to stone as anyone who uses natural energy does if they can't control it. Also jiraiya has more skill that jutsu power IMO.

I would go into details but there is no point.

shit i forgot about the stone thing thank you

 

[vergil18]

toad oil bath can cool down 1000 sharks if j man has the higher ground

for the big bullet it might absorb the technique but if its earth which is waters weakness weakness idt it will grow bigger

and for the genjutsu the frogs could distract kisame for a while or j man himself if kisame doesnt figure out what those 2 are doing

toad oil maybe, but that's a lot of water, really just see the manga.. alway's good to re-see

since the bullet absorbs chakra and grows stronger it's definitly chakra-related proof with few exceptions(shinra tensei)

kisame too fast to be distracted

 

[protentiality]

cos kisame has no intel on jman i say he'll try to absorb his chakra and the he'll turn into a toad

 

[deidara senpai]

toad oil maybe, but that's a lot of water, really just see the manga.. alway's good to re-see

since the bullet absorbs chakra and grows stronger it's definitly chakra-related proof with few exceptions(shinra tensei)

kisame too fast to be distracted

i know its a lot but if but it could be like a waterfall if on higher ground possibly

maybe but earth is always stronger than water and its a water technique so idk about that

anyone can be distracted anyway possible whether its toads or not

 

[vinsence]

what about kisame 1000 shark suiton tech? and his ultimate suiton atack that is already powerfull and absorbs chakra (like Sage Rasengan), and the frog genjutso would need much, much time



well we can't always follow the manga, that's my opinion... there's always new things and facts uncovering

I we don't follow the manga then what do we follow? :shrug:

If I don't follow Manga I could tell you how Sakura could beat the forth. Or how well haha Ino could beat me... I did not mean any thing by that last one haha. :lili:

 

[Reborn]

that depends, would samehada turn to stone statue if it would absorb natural energy? if not than Kisame 100%, IF YES, than it would be very harder, BUT i would still go with Kisame, cause of his huge water prison (thing he used against kirabi)

I was thinking that too. I personally believe that Samehada would turn into stone if he tried to absorb nature energy just like the Pretta path.

Reason:
Samehada is a weapon, not to say that it isn't alive but as far as seen it only abosorbs and transfers. Nature energey takes control. I don't think that the sword can actually control nature energy meaning that it would turn to stone or it would transfer it to Kisame and turn him into stone.

I personally believe that Jiraiya would win with high difficulty. When we look at both of these shinobi we see offensive direct power. You could say that Naruto's style of fighting immitates Jiraiya's in a adolecent form. What I mean is that Naruto uses offense more then defense and he utilizes deception when he attacks, with powerful jutsu. Jiraiya does the same thing. In his fight against pain he uses decpetion with clones to allow him time to summon ma and pa. In Sage Mode he uses powerful offensive attacks like his Giant Rasengan, his collaborations, along with speed and power enhanced taijutsu, etc.

With Kisame we don't see the decption. We see raw power generated by his natural reserves and his ability to absorbe chakra through Samehada and feed him even more.

For jutsu we have Jiraiya using senjutsu, which is nature energy enhance ninjutsu. We see Frog Kumite which is the art fighting style of the Toads enhanced with nature engergy. Jiraiya has A level earth technique(s), Fire, collaboration techniques, mastery of the summoning technique beyond any other (I would say. The multiple varriations of the summoning, that he uses is more then we've seen from any other shinobi)

For Kisame's jutsu we see water jutsu and earth jutsu (only one has been seen) which are of rivalry with Nidaime Hokage's abilities due to his large reserves of chakra, we see the ability to merge with Samehada, giving him unsurpassed speed underwater, and the actual ability to absorb chakra.

Now for the fight itself. Jiriaya beats out Kisame in intelligence. Since Jiraiya has met Kisame before (in the orriginal series) and has been snooping for years about the organization I assume that he knows a fair amount of his abilities. Kisame could know the same amount about Jiraiya through reputation and Itachi possibly filling him in. However with as far as battle intell goes Jiraiya has a better chance of utilizing that knowledge to the best. Jiraiya is a battle smart shinobi (not in the same way as Kakashi or Shikamaru but more like Naruto as his style is immitated off of Jiraiya's). Now earth>water and assuming the high level of Jiraiya's abilities we can say that he can defeat Kisame's water jutsu (with the exception of the water dome). Not to mention in Sage mode Jiraiya developes Toad like qualities including the his limbs and apendages meaning that if he is trapped in the dome he could fair in a water battle. Jiraiya's stamina is also incredible. It may not be as high as Kisame's but it's definatly enough to battle on par in terms of a lasting fight. Jiraiya is a master shinobi and due to the fact that Samehada may not be able to absorb nature energy and live. Kisame's merging with it would be counter prodocutive as it would turn him into stone. A water battle Jiraiya could handle due to sage mode. Jiraiya's speed out matches Kisame's, Jiraiya has a wider range of jutsu then Kisame including Fuinjutsu, plus the added genjutsu bonus from Ma and Pa put Kisame at a disadvantage.

I'm not trying to make it sound easy for Jiraiya I'm just saying that it seems more on his side for this match. That is my starting argument.

 

[thenarutoking]

i cant believe people actually say jiraiya can win this one. their speed is the same. if not kisame is a bit faster until jiraiya uses sm. kisame and sm are probably the same strength. we dont know if samaheda can absorb sage chakra or not. ima say he can.but if he cant kisame still wins. kisame can fly in his waterdome. where ever he swims the waterdome follows right? so if he swims up it will follow up. it never said he couldnt. also. he is definetley faster than jiraya under water. toads cant breathe under water. he can drown jiraya. any move jiraya uses will result in a failure. kisame can just heal himself using absorbed chakra from samaheda. any move jiraya does use will have the chakra sucked out of it resulting in a fruit with no punch.

 

[vergil18]

Alright you know when itachi and Kisame entered the leaf village to capture naruto.
Itachi's true motive was not capturing Naruto. It was warning the elders and Danzou that he's still alive, and not to harm His younger brother sasuke,since the 3rd hokage died.
And why would itachi capture naruto. Naruto was apart of itachis back up plan, by trying to make sasuke protect the village with Shisui's Eye. He knew Sasuke and naruto was best friends and he entruseted Naruto with Shisui's eye cuz he knew sasuke would attack the village once he found out the truth and they was gonna fight and Sasuke would look at Naruto and the crow wouldve made sasuke protect the village, You see how far itachi thought ahead.

So the reason Itachi said they would draw against jiraya was cuz he dettered kisame from attacking Jiraiya, by making him seem legendary and prasing him, And making themselves seem puny, so Kisame wouldnt bother. Itachi knew if kisame attacked Jiraiya, he would have to help and kill jiraya, cuz at the time he joined Akatsuki only to spy on them cuz they was a threat to the village, So he has to make himself seem loyal or the Organisation would grow suspicious of itachi. So he didnt want kisame attacking Jirayia, Because it wouldve started a war too And they wouldve had to kill him, And itachi didnt want to kill any leaf shinobi, Thats why he spared Kakashi's life and Kurenai's. (And you already know itachi's a pasifist and hated fighting and tried to avoid it everytime)
So itachi prevented a war, Plus he was secretly working for konoha
Like seriously if you dont think itachi AND Kisame couldnt kill Jiraiya, you a STRAIGHT fan boy, sorry

Oh yea and Itachi had to save his eyes for Sasuke, and didnt want to lose Anymore vision until he fought sasuke, so therefore he didnt waste it on Jiraiya

too much details to notice back then nice point dude, very nice

 

[thenarutoking]

oh yea. kisame can absorb the chakra sent off by ma and pas genjutsu so that wont work

 

[vergil18]

i know its a lot but if but it could be like a waterfall if on higher ground possibly

maybe but earth is always stronger than water and its a water technique so idk about that

anyone can be distracted anyway possible whether its toads or not

the first 2 may pass without more discussion, but the genjutso, still nags me... only seeing in a real fight right? timing is everything

I we don't follow the manga then what do we follow? :shrug:

There's a lot of things that we cant follow by the letter because of latter facts, that Kishi ads(like, I can only remember this one, did anyone think that Danzo was using Shisui's MS, because he was, underneath the bandages)

If I don't follow Manga I could tell you how Sakura could beat the forth. Or how well haha Ino could beat me... I did not mean any thing by that last one haha. :lili:

 

[thenarutoking]

..

 

[deidara senpai]

the first 2 may pass without more discussion, but the genjutso, still nags me... only seeing in a real fight right? timing is everything

well since were done with the first 2 than lets move on to the final one

anyway we are both right in a way it also depends on where it is

EX: if they are where jiraiya vs pain happened he can run through the pipes and do the genjusu or if its in an area like team gai vs kisame most likely kisame wont get distracted

we can never know unless their is a certain place

and yes timing is everything no doubt cause that is all about how a ninja strikes

 

[kadowade]

Kisame was holding his own against the perfect Junchuriki, cmon now, he was fighting someone almost as fast a Raikage, and actually he was doing Good if not winning. But he lost cause he got double teamed if it wasent for A, i think the battle wouldve turned out diffrent, instead if him a Double-Lariat lol

 

[vergil18]

I was thinking that too. I personally believe that Samehada would turn into stone if he tried to absorb nature energy just like the Pretta path.

Reason:
Samehada is a weapon, not to say that it isn't alive but as far as seen it only abosorbs and transfers. Nature energey takes control. I don't think that the sword can actually control nature energy meaning that it would turn to stone or it would transfer it to Kisame and turn him into stone.

I personally believe that Jiraiya would win with high difficulty. When we look at both of these shinobi we see offensive direct power. You could say that Naruto's style of fighting immitates Jiraiya's in a adolecent form. What I mean is that Naruto uses offense more then defense and he utilizes deception when he attacks, with powerful jutsu. Jiraiya does the same thing. In his fight against pain he uses decpetion with clones to allow him time to summon ma and pa. In Sage Mode he uses powerful offensive attacks like his Giant Rasengan, his collaborations, along with speed and power enhanced taijutsu, etc.

With Kisame we don't see the decption. We see raw power generated by his natural reserves and his ability to absorbe chakra through Samehada and feed him even more.

For jutsu we have Jiraiya using senjutsu, which is nature energy enhance ninjutsu. We see Frog Kumite which is the art fighting style of the Toads enhanced with nature engergy. Jiraiya has A level earth technique(s), Fire, collaboration techniques, mastery of the summoning technique beyond any other (I would say. The multiple varriations of the summoning, that he uses is more then we've seen from any other shinobi)

For Kisame's jutsu we see water jutsu and earth jutsu (only one has been seen) which are of rivalry with Nidaime Hokage's abilities due to his large reserves of chakra, we see the ability to merge with Samehada, giving him unsurpassed speed underwater, and the actual ability to absorb chakra.

Now for the fight itself. Jiriaya beats out Kisame in intelligence. Since Jiraiya has met Kisame before (in the orriginal series) and has been snooping for years about the organization I assume that he knows a fair amount of his abilities. Kisame could know the same amount about Jiraiya through reputation and Itachi possibly filling him in. However with as far as battle intell goes Jiraiya has a better chance of utilizing that knowledge to the best. Jiraiya is a battle smart shinobi (not in the same way as Kakashi or Shikamaru but more like Naruto as his style is immitated off of Jiraiya's). Now earth>water and assuming the high level of Jiraiya's abilities we can say that he can defeat Kisame's water jutsu (with the exception of the water dome). Not to mention in Sage mode Jiraiya developes Toad like qualities including the his limbs and apendages meaning that if he is trapped in the dome he could fair in a water battle. Jiraiya's stamina is also incredible. It may not be as high as Kisame's but it's definatly enough to battle on par in terms of a lasting fight. Jiraiya is a master shinobi and due to the fact that Samehada may not be able to absorb nature energy and live. Kisame's merging with it would be counter prodocutive as it would turn him into stone. A water battle Jiraiya could handle due to sage mode. Jiraiya's speed out matches Kisame's, Jiraiya has a wider range of jutsu then Kisame including Fuinjutsu, plus the added genjutsu bonus from Ma and Pa put Kisame at a disadvantage.

I'm not trying to make it sound easy for Jiraiya I'm just saying that it seems more on his side for this match. That is my starting argument.

wow, my eyes hurt like hell seriously, this kind of replies is what makes a true NarutoFan that understands what is asked and know what he is saying... Anyway for the replie.. As for THE SAMEHADA TURNING TO STONE thing, we can consider that once j-man is in sage mode he will mostly be offensve(giant rasengan, etc) and that kind of atacks will be easy for samehada to absorb(we have only seen Samehada absorb Jinchuriiki cloacks) so that may be a point to consider... the dome tech against jiraiyas toad form would hold for not very long.. frogs breathe underwater but need to ressurface and kisame could move the dome along with him and so drown j-man... plus samehada's chakra could disrupt kisame own chakra flow, BREAKING THE GENJUSTO

i cant believe people actually say jiraiya can win this one. their speed is the same. if not kisame is a bit faster until jiraiya uses sm. kisame and sm are probably the same strength. we dont know if samaheda can absorb sage chakra or not. ima say he can.but if he cant kisame still wins. kisame can fly in his waterdome. where ever he swims the waterdome follows right? so if he swims up it will follow up. it never said he couldnt. also. he is definetley faster than jiraya under water. toads cant breathe under water. he can drown jiraya. any move jiraya uses will result in a failure. kisame can just heal himself using absorbed chakra from samaheda. any move jiraya does use will have the chakra sucked out of it resulting in a fruit with no punch.

toads can breath but for limited time(oxygen dependant) and kisame constantly heals... good point

 

[thenarutoking]

i cant believe people actually say jiraiya can win this one. their speed is the same. if not kisame is a bit faster until jiraiya uses sm. kisame and sm are probably the same strength. we dont know if samaheda can absorb sage chakra or not. ima say he can.but if he cant kisame still wins. kisame can fly in his waterdome. where ever he swims the waterdome follows right? so if he swims up it will follow up. it never said he couldnt. also. he is definetley faster than jiraya under water. toads cant breathe under water. he can drown jiraya. any move jiraya uses will result in a failure. kisame can just heal himself using absorbed chakra from samaheda. any move jiraya does use will have the chakra sucked out of it resulting in a fruit with no punch.samaheda can absorb the chakra sent off by genjutsu so genjutsu wont work on kisame. also samaheda could just wake him up but he wont have to. after reading this if u say jiraya still wins then ur one of those people who think jiraya can beat so6p and you know nothing

 

[Reborn]

wow, my eyes hurt like hell seriously, this kind of replies is what makes a true NarutoFan that understands what is asked and know what he is saying... Anyway for the replie.. As for THE SAMEHADA TURNING TO STONE thing, we can consider that once j-man is in sage mode he will mostly be offensve(giant rasengan, etc) and that kind of atacks will be easy for samehada to absorb(we have only seen Samehada absorb Jinchuriiki cloacks) so that may be a point to consider... the dome tech against jiraiyas toad form would hold for not very long.. frogs breathe underwater but need to ressurface and kisame could move the dome along with him and so drown j-man... plus samehada's chakra could disrupt kisame own chakra flow, BREAKING THE GENJUSTO

I bolded one of your statements because that was a point I wanted to discuss. I wasn't talking about the jutsu, I was talking about Jiraiya's aura or chakra. Remember when Pretta path was absorbing Naruto's chakra through contact, I was stating that Samehada couldn't absorb the nature energy around him not the actual jutsu. Also for that matter unless Kisame is merged with Samehada, Jiraiya can attack Kisame where he can't block with Samehada, meaning that since he's faster in SM allowing him to use such attacks like Giant Rasengan on Kisame's blind spot to hit him before Samehada has a chance to attack. Now with the merging of Samehada I believe that, the technique is only useful underwater, meaning I don't think that he can fight on land with himself merged with Samehada (I can't recall if he did or not, my memory is bad so if I'm wrong correct me) meaning if Jiraiya traps him in genjutsu before that he's done. I'm also unsure of the whole Samehada breaking genjutsu. It's alive and concious yes but the fact is the conciousness of the blade itself isn't that high enough to comprehend how to break a genjutsu. What I'm saying it's not smart enough, take the Hachibi for example. It is a concious creature with mind enough to understand a genjutsu and release Bee from it. Sakura and Chiyo released Naruto from the genjutsu when he was trapped. Although this is just an assumption, I only came up with the assumption based on what I saw. Genjutsu was described as a technique that attacks the mind through precise chakra and it takes knowledge on how to cast and defend against it. Jiraiya had problems breaking genjutsu and he's a Sannin and highly intelligent. I just don't think Samehada has the intelligence to break a genjutsu like certain summons (Enma, Toads, etc...) I could be wrong though.

 

[kadowade]

i cant believe people actually say jiraiya can win this one. their speed is the same. if not kisame is a bit faster until jiraiya uses sm. kisame and sm are probably the same strength. we dont know if samaheda can absorb sage chakra or not. ima say he can.but if he cant kisame still wins. kisame can fly in his waterdome. where ever he swims the waterdome follows right? so if he swims up it will follow up. it never said he couldnt. also. he is definetley faster than jiraya under water. toads cant breathe under water. he can drown jiraya. any move jiraya uses will result in a failure. kisame can just heal himself using absorbed chakra from samaheda. any move jiraya does use will have the chakra sucked out of it resulting in a fruit with no punch.samaheda can absorb the chakra sent off by genjutsu so genjutsu wont work on kisame. also samaheda could just wake him up but he wont have to. after reading this if u say jiraya still wins then ur one of those people who think jiraya can beat so6p and you know nothing

Exactly, Plus Kisame can cut your Chakra in half, like he did to Naruto, And Naruto wasent even able to release ANY Chakra, so kisame is crazy

 

[Exaar]

Alright you know when itachi and Kisame entered the leaf village to capture naruto.
Itachi's true motive was not capturing Naruto. It was warning the elders and Danzou that he's still alive, and not to harm His younger brother sasuke,since the 3rd hokage died.
And why would itachi capture naruto. Naruto was apart of itachis back up plan, by trying to make sasuke protect the village with Shisui's Eye. He knew Sasuke and naruto was best friends and he entruseted Naruto with Shisui's eye cuz he knew sasuke would attack the village once he found out the truth and they was gonna fight and Sasuke would look at Naruto and the crow wouldve made sasuke protect the village, You see how far itachi thought ahead.

So the reason Itachi said they would draw against jiraya was cuz he dettered kisame from attacking Jiraiya, by making him seem legendary and prasing him, And making themselves seem puny, so Kisame wouldnt bother. Itachi knew if kisame attacked Jiraiya, he would have to help and kill jiraya, cuz at the time he joined Akatsuki only to spy on them cuz they was a threat to the village, So he has to make himself seem loyal or the Organisation would grow suspicious of itachi. So he didnt want kisame attacking Jirayia, Because it wouldve started a war too And they wouldve had to kill him, And itachi didnt want to kill any leaf shinobi, Thats why he spared Kakashi's life and Kurenai's. (And you already know itachi's a pasifist and hated fighting and tried to avoid it everytime)
So itachi prevented a war, Plus he was secretly working for konoha
Like seriously if you dont think itachi AND Kisame couldnt kill Jiraiya, you a STRAIGHT fan boy, sorry

Oh yea and Itachi had to save his eyes for Sasuke, and didnt want to lose Anymore vision until he fought sasuke, so therefore he didnt waste it on Jiraiya Oh yeah he was sick too so he couldnt strain his body. He had to save that strain for when he fought sasuke. So basically his purpose for living was for sasuke and the Village, he didnt even care for his own life like that

Im sorry mr Itachi fanboi

Did you ever think Itachi didn't fight him because he wanted to die by sasukes hands and not by Jmans?

But no i guess Itachi fanboi's never think of that huh:shrug:

Kisame even said him self He might be a match for the number 1 of the leaf and one of the mist's seven strongest, Kisame knew of Jmans strength so what itachi said didn't dettered kisame.

All of the sannin's strengths are well know though the ninja world


And that was the first time itachi had met naruto, He had no plans for naruto at that point in time as far as we know, He grew to trust naruto in shippuden

 

[kotoamatsukami]

kisame said he would lose his self