[Discussion] Pain and Itachi
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lilubadmoon
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yeah at the 1st part i may say that it was not said in the manga but still i said "trouble" not "toomuch to handle". and at the second part itachi is more intelligent than nagato we all know that but nagato is not that stupid to just stand and take the genjutsu. yes we all know that itachi can cast genjutsu to more than one shinobi at a time but not at the level of nagato.good points but there are some errors
1). Itachi nor Kisame claimed Jiraiya was too much for them to handle. Itachi just left and Kisame even asked him why running was necessary for "him". Anime has different dialogs and often differs from the manga.
2). Itachi doesn't use only ocular jutsus. He's a genjutsu specialist and probably the best genjutsu user in Naruto. We've seen him cast a genjutsu by pointing a single finger. We know that he can cast these genjutsus on more than one person at a time. In fact, we know that he can cast it on several people over a long range distance according to Ao and Shikaku.
3). Itachi seemed to know about Nagato's Rinnegan too as we saw from the recent chapters. Pain was actually the one calling Itachi the true shinobi hidden in darkness. Pain is brute strength but Itachi has intelligence in addition to strength.
4). Yata's Mirror changes its property in order to adapt and repel attacks, I think it can counter Chibakou Tensei. As for Gedo Mazo, it can be sealed.
Itachi is able to seal Pain's paths but Pain can probably outlast him. Itachi was super smart though. Don't get me wrong, Pain is one of my fav characters too but this match up is just too extreme.
Nagato's weakness was his real body. Madara controlled him but that didn't make him weak.
and yes the yata's mirror can adap to counter an attack but chibaku is not a direct attack it is just a massive gravitational pull how can you counter a gravity or repel it? how can yata adapt if it was stuck with its user on the spherical ball made by the chibaku, men if it realy can counter chibako tensei then its the only item that the juubi should have gotten.....
the conditions where that they are at their prime not dying not sick at all, so why would his body be his weakness? its his last ace along side gedomaso,.. and last thing madara didnot control him he was manipulated and that was his weakness easy to manipulate.. why in the world would madara be threatened by itachi after all? it was because he can not convince him of his plan hence manipulate him that makes itachi stronger than nagato ang thats the reason im a great fan of itachi...
DigitalMonster
Active member
the paths fell under j-man genjutsu,but i wonder why nagato didn't got affected?yeah at the 1st part i may say that it was not said in the manga but still i said "trouble" not "toomuch to handle". and at the second part itachi is more intelligent than nagato we all know that but nagato is not that stupid to just stand and take the genjutsu. yes we all know that itachi can cast genjutsu to more than one shinobi at a time but not at the level of nagato.
and yes the yata's mirror can adap to counter an attack but chibaku is not a direct attack it is just a massive gravitational pull how can you counter a gravity or repel it? how can yata adapt if it was stuck with its user on the spherical ball made by the chibaku, men if it realy can counter chibako tensei then its the only item that the juubi should have gotten.....
the conditions where that they are at their prime not dying not sick at all, so why would his body be his weakness? its his last ace along side gedomaso,.. and last thing madara didnot control him he was manipulated and that was his weakness easy to manipulate.. why in the world would madara be threatened by itachi after all? it was because he can not convince him of his plan hence manipulate him that makes itachi stronger than nagato ang thats the reason im a great fan of itachi...
also,you got mixed up.whose side are you on right now?
lilubadmoon
Member
if its a question of who is going to win its nagato "pain". but for your question who's side im on its itachi..the paths fell under j-man genjutsu,but i wonder why nagato didn't got affected?
also,you got mixed up.whose side are you on right now?
lilubadmoon
Member
and yeah j-man didnot make the genjutsu it was ma and pa toad,.. nagato dint get affected cause he was the controller or the pupperteer if i may say, he was to far from the source of sound....
lilubadmoon
Member
put it this way if your the leader of a group of S class warriors and your group would be weaken if you loss 1 or 2 members if they battle each other, what would you do? prevent the battle right until the goal is achieved? that is what i think nagato did, he needed itachi as a military strength, he din't want to fight itachi til the goal is achieved..
as for the manga we will never know the true reason,.. it can be because of madara or maby itachi,.. or because of a war tactics or something,..
lilubadmoon
Member
forgive me but i must have had skip 10years of manga and anime, cant remember any part of it that say MS is far stronger than rinnegan,... yeah that video i wish kishi would really do that,..
AND FOR THOSE IDIOTS WHO BELEIVE ON BULLSHIT THAT FANS MAKE TO MAKE OTHERS BELEIVE IT =) =) THAT IS NOT KISHI'S WORK IF NOT WE WOULD HAVE SEEN IT......... ITACHI VS NAGATO/PAIN HAS NEVER HAPPENED.... btw its sad how u make two accounts to raise up itachi's poll counts..... at least change the name.... OH AND IF YOU FEEL OFFENDED SORRY BUT YOU CALLED ME STUPID FIRST...............
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ANYWAYS WHY I SAY NAGATO IS SUPERIOR
This is a topic that has been repeated like a MILLION OF TIMES....
Amaterasu can be absorbed....... AMATERASU= CHAKRA JUST LIKE KATON JUTSUS but whats the trick here? IT WILL KEEP BURNING FOR 7 DAYS but wait WE ARE SEALING IT! Just like Jiraiya did...... AND DID IT KEPT BURNING AFTER JIRAIYA SEALED IT?? NO!!.......When jiraiya sealed it??? after itachi first fight with sasuke when he was with kisame and they had to flee from jiraiya's frog stomach jutsu......
Let's move on.....
Tsukuyomi..... NAGATO WEAKNESS= GENJUTSU..... When Jiraiya used his frog song ONLY 3 BODIES OF PAIN appeared WHY NAGATO DIDN'T APPEAR?? simple because Jiraiya wasn't targetting Nagato, BUT THE THREE BODIES (petra, animal, human) and why asura, naraka path did not got trapped if they were hearing the thing too? THIS PROVES THAT JIRAIYA TO TRAP SOMEONE IN THE GENJUTSU HE HAD TO TARGET THEM...
AND WHAT DO YOU WANT TO SAY WITH THIS??
simple.....
Frog Song= Area of Spell and Tsukuyomi= Single targetting because the eyes sh!t
so if Itachi uses Tsukuyomi he's practically targetting only one pain not all UNLESS HE TARGETS THE REAL PAIN (NAGATO)
let's continue with the tour
Susanoo= Susanoo is a concept that we can debate, but not because it steals souls, but for the reason that its attacks are like that of a BIG GIANT...... BUT WHAT HAPPENS HERE?? pain's multi-summoning+gedo mazou that buy pain/nagato WHATEVER!! to release chibaku tensei upon a fighting to the end itachi.....OH AND DON'T FORGET PAIN ARE DEAD BODIES HOW DO YOU PUT THE SOUL OF A DEAD BODY (which they don't have) UNDER A ETERNAL GENJUTSU?? Honestly I don't know how you do that.... maybe you go to heaven bring the soul of that body down and then seal it =O =O
AND REMEMBER....
ITACHI does NOT have "BIG" amounts of chakra
PAIN do HAVE this "BIG" amount of chakra
now.... let's move to the basics
itachi's ninjutsus vs pain ninjutsus
itachi can copy pain ninjutsus but remember that certain shinobis when they are pro enough they don't even need to do hand signs right?? THAT COMES WITH PRACTICE...
how is itachi able to copy pain's ninjutsus if he does not do any hand signs??
I don't know =O =O
I may consider nagato and itachi in the same level BUT WHAT HAPPENS HERE?
NAGATO HAS THE PERFECT TOOLS TO COUNTER ITACHI.........
sorry itachi fans but Nagato got this like a piece of cake
Sincerily
~G~
PS: if you say MS is stronger than Rinnegan THEN TELL ME WHY THE "STRONGEST CHARACTER ON THIS ANIME HAS A RINNEGAN!!!" AND NO I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT NAGATO NOW I'M DEFENDING RINNEGAN AND PUTTING SAGE OF SIX PATHS IN THE LINE
CAN ITACHI DEFEND THE PLANET FIGHTING THE 10 TAILS?? i TOTALLY DOUBT IT!!
fan-boys.........
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chill
"Amaterasu can be absorbed" - by 1 out of 6 Pains
"Tsukuyomi= Single targetting" - Unless you consider "pains are visually linked" as a strong debate. If not, then remember that 72hrs in Tsukyiomi < 1second in real world
"OH AND DON'T FORGET PAIN ARE DEAD BODIES HOW DO YOU PUT THE SOUL OF A DEAD BODY (which they don't have) UNDER A ETERNAL GENJUTSU??" - Itachi doesn't need to use the sword against Pain...It's an upgrade that can be added or removed at will. For all we know Itachi's susanoo has a bow and shoots arrows that cannot be dodged (like sasuke).
"ITACHI does NOT have "BIG" amounts of chakra" - 2 problems: 1. You don't know how much chakra Itachi @ full power has and 2. you don't know if MS uses a lot of chakra and Itachi has in fact a huge amount.
"
itachi can copy pain ninjutsus but remember that certain shinobis when they are pro enough they don't even need to do hand signs right?? THAT COMES WITH PRACTICE...
how is itachi able to copy pain's ninjutsus if he does not do any hand signs??" - If you're referring to the fact that Kakashi didn't see Itachi make any hand seals it was because he was incredibly fast. Kakashi said so himself. I don't remember not having to do seals stated anywhere. And Itachi CAN do seals, that's a fact. I don't get where you pulled out "doesn't do hand signs" from but it's not true.
"NAGATO HAS THE PERFECT TOOLS TO COUNTER ITACHI........." - Where did you get this from?
DigitalMonster
Active member
1.Amaterasu is KG.so it can't be absorbed.
2. like i said earlier,tsukuyomi affects mind.the paths don't have minds so it will directly hit nagato.
note that once susanoo seals gedo mazou,its game over cuz nagato is attached to gedo mazou and he's going to meet yahiko in another world
EDIT:Susanoo isn't matter,so chibaku tensei is ineffective (though i'm not sure about itachi's in it)
I represent Uchiha
Member
Itachi would take pain out to a nice seafood dinner then f*ck his wife and never call him again
DigitalMonster
Active member
Your Amaterasu point may be correct but it isn't made of chakra. It's actual fire, black fire to be exact. The Tsukiyomi one is wrong. All 7 bodies of Pain are linked together. Jiraiya trapped 3 in the genjutsu because there were only 3 to target. Itachi can cast genjutsu on more than 1 person in a matter of seconds and he certainly doesn't need eye contact. Tsukiyomi also works on more than 1 person at once (this information is from the recent manga and his encounter with naruto and sasuke). Do you remember his first encounter with Asume, Kurenai, Gai and Kakashi? They ALL had to keep their eyes closed and avoid eye contact with him.
Susano'o might not be able to seal Pain's souls but he can seal all 6 bodies. He sealed the whole hydra and Orochimaru's soul along with his body.
Rinnegan obviously has more raw strength than the sharingan but we haven't seen the EMS yet, have we? MS might not be stronger but sharingan at full strength is definitely not the weaker eye technique. I'm willing to bet that EMS might be deadlier than the Rinnegan itself.
Susano'o might not be able to seal Pain's souls but he can seal all 6 bodies. He sealed the whole hydra and Orochimaru's soul along with his body.
Rinnegan obviously has more raw strength than the sharingan but we haven't seen the EMS yet, have we? MS might not be stronger but sharingan at full strength is definitely not the weaker eye technique. I'm willing to bet that EMS might be deadlier than the Rinnegan itself.
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well.... what i can't say for sure if amaterasu will not be absorbed because......
amaterasu= ninjutsu= made out of chakra to appear.... i'm still not convinced in the fact that amaterasu CAN'T be absorbed..... amaterasu might be Kekke Genkai but it still can be absorbed because its chakra..... If not then how pain absorbed boiling lava technique of sage jiraiya if sage arts are even more rare than a kekkei genkai...
Tsukuyomi= as i said already if nagato is linked to the other pains........ when jiraiya trapped the three bodies that means nagato himself should have appeared on the genjutsu trapped too..... but he didn't thats why i say that....... you need to target the objects that will fall under genjutsu to make them fall under it. Tsukuyomi NEEDS EYE CONTACT as far as i know... I don't see the joke in getting MS to cast Tsukuyomi if you can cast it with your finger then......
Susanoo= The bodies themselves might be absorbed too then but that means none of the two of them wins= means it ends in tie.
sorry if i sounded kinda angry on the last post but the guy I quoted made pain sound like some joke with no real facts or something to argument with, but just a fan-boy made video that doesn't proves anything.....
WELL BUT ANYWAYS we are here to debate and share ideas not to blame so I won't put my mind on that....
it's true we still have not seen EMS abilities but neither nagato has shown us what rinnegan itself is..... if not ask the SO6P which managed to seal the ten tails.
Do you feel me?
We all have different ways of thinking its true and thats what makes this fun....
amaterasu= ninjutsu= made out of chakra to appear.... i'm still not convinced in the fact that amaterasu CAN'T be absorbed..... amaterasu might be Kekke Genkai but it still can be absorbed because its chakra..... If not then how pain absorbed boiling lava technique of sage jiraiya if sage arts are even more rare than a kekkei genkai...
Tsukuyomi= as i said already if nagato is linked to the other pains........ when jiraiya trapped the three bodies that means nagato himself should have appeared on the genjutsu trapped too..... but he didn't thats why i say that....... you need to target the objects that will fall under genjutsu to make them fall under it. Tsukuyomi NEEDS EYE CONTACT as far as i know... I don't see the joke in getting MS to cast Tsukuyomi if you can cast it with your finger then......
Susanoo= The bodies themselves might be absorbed too then but that means none of the two of them wins= means it ends in tie.
sorry if i sounded kinda angry on the last post but the guy I quoted made pain sound like some joke with no real facts or something to argument with, but just a fan-boy made video that doesn't proves anything.....
WELL BUT ANYWAYS we are here to debate and share ideas not to blame so I won't put my mind on that....
it's true we still have not seen EMS abilities but neither nagato has shown us what rinnegan itself is..... if not ask the SO6P which managed to seal the ten tails.
Do you feel me?
We all have different ways of thinking its true and thats what makes this fun....
Kakashi Fang
Active member
Pain wins this I don't know why this is still getting debated...
Itachi has low stamina just like Kakashi does even in prime and Pain has seemingly limitless chakra.
Pain can fly how will Itachi deal with that besides trying to use amaterasu on Pain from that distance pain will just blow away and then just crush Itachi with shinra tensei from above even if he had susanoo he would just get sucked up by chibaku tensei or Gedo mazu would come out and blast the shit outta susanoo little ass.
Itachi has low stamina just like Kakashi does even in prime and Pain has seemingly limitless chakra.
Pain can fly how will Itachi deal with that besides trying to use amaterasu on Pain from that distance pain will just blow away and then just crush Itachi with shinra tensei from above even if he had susanoo he would just get sucked up by chibaku tensei or Gedo mazu would come out and blast the shit outta susanoo little ass.
ProfessorCuddles
Member
moudhgalya
Member
It is made of chakra unless you provide evidence that states otherwise.
*Facepalm*
Anyone who hears the frog song will get affected by it .
Using the same logic as yous..Nagato heard the frog song too but why wasn't he seen in the genjutsu realm?
There is no proof that he can use a chakra taxing technique such as Tsukoyomi on more than one person at once .
Or do you actually believe Itachi is capable of using 6 Tsukoyomi without dying n the process?
Yeah this may work . But then he is susceptible to Deva's CT which would end the match.
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