[Discussion] Pain and Itachi

[Avani]

We agreed to disagree. And neither of us is wrong, but when I'm being called a fanboy...that's just rude.

bolded part : Because we are debating what the OP originally posted.

"6 Paths of Pain?

or

Itachi Uchiha (no sickness or disease)"

6 Paths vs Itachi (no sickness)...that's the versus and that's what should be debated.

Also, about the susanoo. IT was "broken" by the Raikage, but (1) it regenerated back for the next fight, so no permanent damage and (2) that susanoo was a lot weaker than Itachi's susanoo, the one that was able to stop kirin. Remember that.

Remember that Pain is more powerful than Raikage as well and it can regenerate only if the fighter doesn't go blind already..... Also I didn't call you fanboy. :flaw: (I have seen a few around and I don't put you in that category.)

Thirdly- I pointed out about Nagato's health because somehow a lot of member seem to remember Itachi was sick but forget how Nagato was badly injured as well- that was not exactly directed at you but, to OP.

 

[oFuiinJutsuu]

I <3 Anub

 

[ackeem1992]

Nice thread

Sorry to join the discussion so late, but here's my attempt to solve the simultaneous equation.

Unhealthy nagato=rinnegan=6path>---pawned jiraiya, kakashi, shizune, fukasaku, shima, most of kohana's jounin's and chunin's and levelled kohana to dust rubble and debree. (Naruto did not defeat nagato)

Unhealthy itachi=ms=susano'o>-- barley managed to stay alive against saskue, had no such thing as stamina, he was unable to sustain susano'o which was a big double edge sword (when it wore off it cost him his life). no doubt Itachi was a highly skilled ninja before his unfortunate sicknesses though.

Now just by comparing those two individuals in their unhealthy state we can see a huge difference in, stamina, versatility and raw brute strength. Therefore we should be able to determine the winner between the two ninja's if they both were to faced off in their healthy states.

So Here's my view, 1. susanoo would fail because the bodies don't have souls (being there dead), Amaterau=nin-jutsu, preta path absorbs all nin-jutsu, amatersau is no exception. nagato + the six path of pain shares the same hearing and vision, but nagato was not caught in fukasaku and shima's sound gen-justu, thus one must catch nagato in tsukuyomi in order to catch all the other paths in the spell. chibaku tensei was used to restrain a biju (6 tail kyubi) so what makes most of you think it cannot restrain susanoo.

itachi would have to find away to somehow defeat animal path summons (giant dogs, giant centipedes and etc), deva path chibaku and shrina tensei, stopping naraka path from ripping out his tongue and at the same time dodging asura path missiles (which locks on to the target even if they move). Itachi's chakra reserve is nothing compared to nagato's, he literally can go the whole day, itachi's chakra reserve will not even enable him to destroy animal path alone not to mention asura and deva. Itachi simply cannot face nagato with just EMS with the intention to win, he would need strong giant summons, sealing techs, weapons, and a chakra station to refuel when his base chakra runs out.

Here's my equation:
(Unhealthy itachi=ms=susano'o + unhealthy nagato=rinnegan=6path)=
(full strength nagato=rinnegan=6path > full strenght itachi=ems=susano'o)

Itachi fails

End of discussion.

 

[Anub]

Remember that Pain is more powerful than Raikage as well and it can regenerate only if the fighter doesn't go blind already..... Also I didn't call you fanboy. :flaw: (I have seen a few around and I don't put you in that category.)

Thirdly- I pointed out about Nagato's health because somehow a lot of member seem to remember Itachi was sick but forget how Nagato was badly injured as well- that was not exactly directed at you but, to OP.

wasn't you that called me a fanboy. It was the other guy i replied to.

Also I can argue that when it comes to strength, Raikage can be stronger than any Pain body. Brute strength that is. The way I see it Raikage > any pain body at strength + itachi's susanoo stronger than sasuke's = itachi's susanoo will be able to protect him.

Nice thread

Sorry to join the discussion so late, but here's my attempt to solve the simultaneous equation.

Unhealthy nagato=rinnegan=6path>---pawned jiraiya, kakashi, shizune, fukasaku, shima, most of kohana's jounin's and chunin's and levelled kohana to dust rubble and debree. (Naruto did not defeat nagato)

Unhealthy itachi=ms=susano'o>-- barley managed to stay alive against saskue, had no such thing as stamina, he was unable to sustain susano'o which was a big double edge sword (when it wore off it cost him his life). no doubt Itachi was a highly skilled ninja before his unfortunate sicknesses though.

Now just by comparing those two individuals in their unhealthy state we can see a huge difference in, stamina, versatility and raw brute strength. Therefore we should be able to determine the winner between the two ninja's if they both were to faced off in their healthy states.

So Here's my view, 1. susanoo would fail because the bodies don't have souls (being there dead), Amaterau=nin-jutsu, preta path absorbs all nin-jutsu, amatersau is no exception. nagato + the six path of pain shares the same hearing and vision, but nagato was not caught in fukasaku and shima's sound gen-justu, thus one must catch nagato in tsukuyomi in order to catch all the other paths in the spell. chibaku tensei was used to restrain a biju (6 tail kyubi) so what makes most of you think it cannot restrain susanoo.

itachi would have to find away to somehow defeat animal path summons (giant dogs, giant centipedes and etc), deva path chibaku and shrina tensei, stopping naraka path from ripping out his tongue and at the same time dodging asura path missiles (which locks on to the target even if they move). Itachi's chakra reserve is nothing compared to nagato's, he literally can go the whole day, itachi's chakra reserve will not even enable him to destroy animal path alone not to mention asura and deva. Itachi simply cannot face nagato with just EMS with the intention to win, he would need strong giant summons, sealing techs, weapons, and a chakra station to refuel when his base chakra runs out.

Here's my equation:
(Unhealthy itachi=ms=susano'o + unhealthy nagato=rinnegan=6path)=
(full strength nagato=rinnegan=6path > full strenght itachi=ems=susano'o)

Itachi fails

End of discussion.

First of all, Nagato didn't "pawn" Jirayia at all. In fact he said that if Jirayia knew everything about him, we probably would have lost. Itachi pwned Kakashi worse than Nagato did.

About Itachi barely managing to stay alive vs Sasuke. Manga states that he was barely able to stay alive even before Sasuke arrived there. Which practically means that it's a huge thing him being able to fight Sasuke for so long. As far as stamina goes, we all agree that Pain > Itachi in that category, however, it was never Itachi's game to outlast anyone in stamina. He always goes for the quick kill and genjutsu as much as possible, which we know for a fact is Nagato's weakness. With that said, I would also like to add that Itachi+Tobi(who we know isn't a very offensive fighter because of the damage sustained against Hashirama) managed to kill an entire Uchiha clan (uchiha being the equivalent of sayian when it comes to naruto) and that's a big thing as well. It means Itachi at full health is way stronger than when he was up against sasuke, barely seeing, barely living and still managing to appear to want to kill sasuke when in fact he wanted to extract Oro from him.

So about Itachi's MS abilities:
1.tsukyiomi : You can argue that he cannot affect all of them at once, but that might be a big loophole the way I see it, but let's go with it. He needs to put just the one body that absorbs ninjutsu under his genjutsu. And he doesn't even need to use tsukyiomi unless he sees the real Nagato, which if they were fighting, it should be given that he is on a battlefield, not hiding in the bushes.
2.amaterasu : There is one pain that absorbs ninjutsu but we've seen how much amaterasu a sick Itachi can materialize...if the bodies are not aligned properly, at least 1 or 2 would certainly be caught. And if they are aligned in a straight line, then Itachi can use susanoo and penetrate them all.
3. susanoo : he doesn't need to seal their bodies. We know that the sword he uses is a legendary item that was ADDED on itachi's susanoo. It means that his original susanoo had a normal weapon (i.e. bow in sasuke's case...which i tend to think it's the same in itachi's because they have the same abilities). And we saw the swrod suck in all of Orochimaru, not just the soul, but either way, he's got an ultimate defense and if the sword won't seal the bodies, it (or any other weapon) can hurt them for sure.
Also I guess it's obvious that if Kakashi was able to copy techniques, Itachi can as well. And Itachi spent a good part of his life among the strongest shinobi alive so he picked up a few tricks for sure.

Please, if you are debating, try to stay away from statements like this one: "itachi's chakra reserve will not even enable him to destroy animal path alone not to mention asura and deva", which is pure assumption made into a "fact" by yourself only. I can estimate that Itachi's chakra reserve is a lot bigger that when he fought Sasuke. I brought some proof (in a way) that he + tobi were able to defeat a whole clan. Also remember how much amaterasu Itachi used when vs Sasuke. If you were to take how much chakra a very sick Itachi used when he fought sasuke and compare it to how much sasuke used when he was healthy, you would get to about the same results. I would estimate that Itachi's chakra level when sick is about as high as sasuke's after getting MS. Remember that Itachi was part of the akatsuki...he wasn't some random shinobi who could only use 3 ms jutsu and no more chakra...

"Here's my equation:
(Unhealthy itachi=ms=susano'o + unhealthy nagato=rinnegan=6path)=
(full strength nagato=rinnegan=6path > full strenght itachi=ems=susano'o)"

doesn't make any sense. unhealthy nagato? if nagato is healthy he can walk. If he can walk, he will try to attack as well (maybe?). And if he is on the battlefield, Itachi can easily catch him in a tsukyiomi and all done. Also, as I said above, don't assume that Nagato will be hidden in a tree made of paper. He is on the battlefield, maybe not as close of visible, but nevertheless still around. It would be unfair to put itachi on an open field against 6 adversaries, while nagato sits back and watches TV in a bunker. If that is the case I will assume that Itachi starts off in super-sayian mode with spiky hair and everything.

 

[ackeem1992]

wasn't you that called me a fanboy. It was the other guy i replied to.

Also I can argue that when it comes to strength, Raikage can be stronger than any Pain body. Brute strength that is. The way I see it Raikage > any pain body at strength + itachi's susanoo stronger than sasuke's = itachi's susanoo will be able to protect him.



First of all, Nagato didn't "pawn" Jirayia at all. In fact he said that if Jirayia knew everything about him, we probably would have lost. Itachi pwned Kakashi worse than Nagato did.

About Itachi barely managing to stay alive vs Sasuke. Manga states that he was barely able to stay alive even before Sasuke arrived there. Which practically means that it's a huge thing him being able to fight Sasuke for so long. As far as stamina goes, we all agree that Pain > Itachi in that category, however, it was never Itachi's game to outlast anyone in stamina. He always goes for the quick kill and genjutsu as much as possible, which we know for a fact is Nagato's weakness. With that said, I would also like to add that Itachi+Tobi(who we know isn't a very offensive fighter because of the damage sustained against Hashirama) managed to kill an entire Uchiha clan (uchiha being the equivalent of sayian when it comes to naruto) and that's a big thing as well. It means Itachi at full health is way stronger than when he was up against sasuke, barely seeing, barely living and still managing to appear to want to kill sasuke when in fact he wanted to extract Oro from him.

So about Itachi's MS abilities:
1.tsukyiomi : You can argue that he cannot affect all of them at once, but that might be a big loophole the way I see it, but let's go with it. He needs to put just the one body that absorbs ninjutsu under his genjutsu. And he doesn't even need to use tsukyiomi unless he sees the real Nagato, which if they were fighting, it should be given that he is on a battlefield, not hiding in the bushes.
2.amaterasu : There is one pain that absorbs ninjutsu but we've seen how much amaterasu a sick Itachi can materialize...if the bodies are not aligned properly, at least 1 or 2 would certainly be caught. And if they are aligned in a straight line, then Itachi can use susanoo and penetrate them all.
3. susanoo : he doesn't need to seal their bodies. We know that the sword he uses is a legendary item that was ADDED on itachi's susanoo. It means that his original susanoo had a normal weapon (i.e. bow in sasuke's case...which i tend to think it's the same in itachi's because they have the same abilities). And we saw the swrod suck in all of Orochimaru, not just the soul, but either way, he's got an ultimate defense and if the sword won't seal the bodies, it (or any other weapon) can hurt them for sure.
Also I guess it's obvious that if Kakashi was able to copy techniques, Itachi can as well. And Itachi spent a good part of his life among the strongest shinobi alive so he picked up a few tricks for sure.

Please, if you are debating, try to stay away from statements like this one: "itachi's chakra reserve will not even enable him to destroy animal path alone not to mention asura and deva", which is pure assumption made into a "fact" by yourself only. I can estimate that Itachi's chakra reserve is a lot bigger that when he fought Sasuke. I brought some proof (in a way) that he + tobi were able to defeat a whole clan. Also remember how much amaterasu Itachi used when vs Sasuke. If you were to take how much chakra a very sick Itachi used when he fought sasuke and compare it to how much sasuke used when he was healthy, you would get to about the same results. I would estimate that Itachi's chakra level when sick is about as high as sasuke's after getting MS. Remember that Itachi was part of the akatsuki...he wasn't some random shinobi who could only use 3 ms jutsu and no more chakra...

"Here's my equation:
(Unhealthy itachi=ms=susano'o + unhealthy nagato=rinnegan=6path)=
(full strength nagato=rinnegan=6path > full strenght itachi=ems=susano'o)"

doesn't make any sense. unhealthy nagato? if nagato is healthy he can walk. If he can walk, he will try to attack as well (maybe?). And if he is on the battlefield, Itachi can easily catch him in a tsukyiomi and all done. Also, as I said above, don't assume that Nagato will be hidden in a tree made of paper. He is on the battlefield, maybe not as close of visible, but nevertheless still around. It would be unfair to put itachi on an open field against 6 adversaries, while nagato sits back and watches TV in a bunker. If that is the case I will assume that Itachi starts off in super-sayian mode with spiky hair and everything.

I respect your opinion, but I have to disagree with you on some of your points.

Yes In fact nagato did stated jiraiya would defeat him if he knew his secret, but he did not, resulting in his death, thus he was pawned (that's fact)

On your second paragraph, if you read my post thoroughly you would seen were I stated itachi was indeed a strong ninja before his unfortunate sicknesses. Itachi in his prime was able to massacre the uchia's, now I'll use that action to say itachi chakra reserve was in fact high but it is NOTHING compared to nagato's chakra reserve (after all he is an uzumaki). Now if you fully understood my post I was merely comparing the two ninja's strength at the time in which they were both ill. Fact of the matter is a weakened nagato was capable of pawning a nation, a weakened itachi could only do so such, after 1 tsukuyomi on saskue itachi was on his knee's, and ultimately susano'o cost him his life.

Now nagato+6path at full strength is equivalent to a god (which he was), chibaku tensei would have more mass, shinra tensei would a have higher radius. Itachi EMS full strength would simply not be enough, after all rinnegan is superior to all dou-jutsu including ms.

Towards your numbers

1. Yes indeed the manga gave us some indication that nagato had a weakness for gen-jutsu, its also evident that one would have to catch nagato in gen to catch all the other paths in the spell. Getting preta in a gen-jutsu' means nothing because nagato can simply kill preta then have naraka path rejuvenate him after, while deva, animal and asura hold off itachi.

2. Amaterasu is fire am I not right?, fire is fuelled by oxygen+wind, even if preta was cast in a gen-jutsu, deva could simply repel amaterasu. The energy from the repel would force the fire from nagato direction back to itachi and the excess oxygen in the wind would make the fire bigger thus burning itachi to ash (and this is if preta was caught in gen-jutsu)

3. Susano'o in my view is totally USELESS in a clash against nagato, susano'o is feul by chakra, thus preta owns susanoo, chibaku tensei was able to pawn a 6tail kyubi, susano'o is not even on a 1 tailed biju lvl, thus chibaku tensei would be a over kill. The tech is hard to sustain (that's fact) therefore it can only defend itachi for a period, and once the tech is release the user will pay an horrible price, either total chakra exhaustion or death either way after its release the user would be useless. Therefore susano'o would only be used as a last resort against a clash with nagato and even then it would still be a fail.

Its a fact (not just my opinion) that animal path alone is will exhaust all of itachi's chakra, 1. The dogs are giants when defeated they multiply into more giants, the centipedes are giants, itachi would also need giant summons, Sealing techs or like you said super saiyen strength. EMS alone against nagato is a fail and pointless battle.

Nagato doesn't just sit in a bunker, he utilises his own chakra to all the dead bodies at once and at the same time performing complex jutsu's through these bodies, the iron robs act as puppet strings, he's the puppet master, only someone who's highly skilled in control and possesses a huge amount of chakra can perform and sustain this complex task, nagato is Almighty.

Rinnegan=6path= a tool by a god, itachi (man) cannot be compared to a god like individual like nagato.

Itachi fails EMS is simply not enough to take out nagato.

Then again I still respect your opinion,

 

[Anub]

I respect your opinion, but I have to disagree with you on some of your points.

Yes In fact nagato did stated jiraiya would defeat him if he knew his secret, but he did not, resulting in his death, thus he was pawned (that's fact)

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On your second paragraph, if you read my post thoroughly you would seen were I stated itachi was indeed a strong ninja before his unfortunate sicknesses. Itachi in his prime was able to massacre the uchia's, now I'll use that action to say itachi chakra reserve was in fact high but it is NOTHING compared to nagato's chakra reserve (after all he is an uzumaki). Now if you fully understood my post I was merely comparing the two ninja's strength at the time in which they were both ill. Fact of the matter is a weakened nagato was capable of pawning a nation, a weakened itachi could only do so such, after 1 tsukuyomi on saskue itachi was on his knee's, and ultimately susano'o cost him his life.

1 tsukyiomi, a lot of ninjutsu+taijutsu involved, a LOT of amaterasu and a well timed susanoo. And of course an uzumaki would always have a higher chakra reserve and there's no debate there, but I just feel that you put Itachi's chakra even lower than Kakashi's. It might be just me, but that's what I'm getting out of it.

Now nagato+6path at full strength is equivalent to a god (which he was), chibaku tensei would have more mass, shinra tensei would a have higher radius. Itachi EMS full strength would simply not be enough, after all rinnegan is superior to all dou-jutsu including ms.

How is he equivalent to a god? So6p is the god figure in the manga, not Pain. Pain was feared by all the weak genin villagers and worshiped as a god, but that doesn't make it true. He would get owned by naruto + fox cloak for sure so how is he a god?
Itachi has MS not EMS. And it's true Rinnegan > Sharingan, but this is not that kind of a battle. For all we know Nagato was a rookie with rinnegan while Itachi was an expert of sharingan.

Towards your numbers

1. Yes indeed the manga gave us some indication that nagato had a weakness for gen-jutsu, its also evident that one would have to catch nagato in gen to catch all the other paths in the spell. Getting preta in a gen-jutsu' means nothing because nagato can simply kill preta then have naraka path rejuvenate him after, while deva, animal and asura hold off itachi.

Sounds like one scenario, but you're only seeing Pain's side. Remember: it took ITachi less than 1 second to catch and torture Kakashi (a sharingan user who would normally be good against genjutsu) for 72 hours.

2. Amaterasu is fire am I not right?, fire is fuelled by oxygen+wind, even if preta was cast in a gen-jutsu, deva could simply repel amaterasu. The energy from the repel would force the fire from nagato direction back to itachi and the excess oxygen in the wind would make the fire bigger thus burning itachi to ash (and this is if preta was caught in gen-jutsu)

Amaterasu is a different kind of fire, fueled by something else, but not oxygen+wind. The manga says that it burns for 7 days or so...consider it a ninjutsu rather than fire. Also deva repels amaterasu in all directions (including his team-mates') so ITachi can protect himself with susanoo while the others can't. Also as soon as he used his jutsu, Itachi can materialize more amaterasu on deva path directly. He would be defenseless.

3. Susano'o in my view is totally USELESS in a clash against nagato, susano'o is feul by chakra, thus preta owns susanoo, chibaku tensei was able to pawn a 6tail kyubi, susano'o is not even on a 1 tailed biju lvl, thus chibaku tensei would be a over kill. The tech is hard to sustain (that's fact) therefore it can only defend itachi for a period, and once the tech is release the user will pay an horrible price, either total chakra exhaustion or death either way after its release the user would be useless. Therefore susano'o would only be used as a last resort against a clash with nagato and even then it would still be a fail.

I think you are severly underrating susanoo right now. It's fueled by chakra, but in order to absorb it, he needs to touch it with his hands... who would be quicker? Susanoo or that path? I think it's quite obvious. Also I agree, chibaku tensei would be the best method against susanoo, but Itachi can blow a hole through it with amaterasu (he did so with Jirayia's jutsu in the early naruto episodes) while protecting himself with susanoo. And Itachi at full power would have no problems sustaining susanoo. Sasuke didn't and he is a weakling compared to Itachi...

Its a fact (not just my opinion) that animal path alone is will exhaust all of itachi's chakra, 1. The dogs are giants when defeated they multiply into more giants, the centipedes are giants, itachi would also need giant summons, Sealing techs or like you said super saiyen strength. EMS alone against nagato is a fail and pointless battle.

How is that a fact? Itachi can catch that path in a genjutsu and it's all over before pain gets to say "kyuubi".

Nagato doesn't just sit in a bunker, he utilises his own chakra to all the dead bodies at once and at the same time performing complex jutsu's through these bodies, the iron robs act as puppet strings, he's the puppet master, only someone who's highly skilled in control and possesses a huge amount of chakra can perform and sustain this complex task, nagato is Almighty.

I'm gonna bold this part because it's important for everyone to know : Sure...but...he SHOULD fight. I mean we're talking about a battle and you're giving nagato the advantage from the start. It's like making a versus of Jirayia vs Itachi, but Jirayia starts off in sage mode with the frogs prepared to sing their genjutsu song and the battle takes place inside a toad. And Itachi is tied up. Does it seem like a fair scenario? I don't want to hear that bias about nagato being almighty because he can control 6 bodies. Kabuto can control 100... Same with sasori...Let nagato fight the battle properly. Imagine this scenario: Itachi attacks nagato by surprise (nagato, not one of his bodies). Now we can discuss.

Rinnegan=6path= a tool by a god, itachi (man) cannot be compared to a god like individual like nagato.

I hope you are joking here.
If not,

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Itachi fails EMS is simply not enough to take out nagato.

MS

 

[Dracule]

All.....Mighty.....Push.....

 

[whitemagehealu]

Whoever Kishimoto wrote to win would win.

 

[ackeem1992]

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1 tsukyiomi, a lot of ninjutsu+taijutsu involved, a LOT of amaterasu and a well timed susanoo. And of course an uzumaki would always have a higher chakra reserve and there's no debate there, but I just feel that you put Itachi's chakra even lower than Kakashi's. It might be just me, but that's what I'm getting out of it.


How is he equivalent to a god? So6p is the god figure in the manga, not Pain. Pain was feared by all the weak genin villagers and worshiped as a god, but that doesn't make it true. He would get owned by naruto + fox cloak for sure so how is he a god?
Itachi has MS not EMS. And it's true Rinnegan > Sharingan, but this is not that kind of a battle. For all we know Nagato was a rookie with rinnegan while Itachi was an expert of sharingan.



Sounds like one scenario, but you're only seeing Pain's side. Remember: it took ITachi less than 1 second to catch and torture Kakashi (a sharingan user who would normally be good against genjutsu) for 72 hours.



Amaterasu is a different kind of fire, fueled by something else, but not oxygen+wind. The manga says that it burns for 7 days or so...consider it a ninjutsu rather than fire. Also deva repels amaterasu in all directions (including his team-mates') so ITachi can protect himself with susanoo while the others can't. Also as soon as he used his jutsu, Itachi can materialize more amaterasu on deva path directly. He would be defenseless.



I think you are severly underrating susanoo right now. It's fueled by chakra, but in order to absorb it, he needs to touch it with his hands... who would be quicker? Susanoo or that path? I think it's quite obvious. Also I agree, chibaku tensei would be the best method against susanoo, but Itachi can blow a hole through it with amaterasu (he did so with Jirayia's jutsu in the early naruto episodes) while protecting himself with susanoo. And Itachi at full power would have no problems sustaining susanoo. Sasuke didn't and he is a weakling compared to Itachi...


How is that a fact? Itachi can catch that path in a genjutsu and it's all over before pain gets to say "kyuubi".

I'm gonna bold this part because it's important for everyone to know : Sure...but...he SHOULD fight. I mean we're talking about a battle and you're giving nagato the advantage from the start. It's like making a versus of Jirayia vs Itachi, but Jirayia starts off in sage mode with the frogs prepared to sing their genjutsu song and the battle takes place inside a toad. And Itachi is tied up. Does it seem like a fair scenario? I don't want to hear that bias about nagato being almighty because he can control 6 bodies. Kabuto can control 100... Same with sasori...Let nagato fight the battle properly. Imagine this scenario: Itachi attacks nagato by surprise (nagato, not one of his bodies). Now we can discuss.


I hope you are joking here.
If not,

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MS

Kabuto's doesn't use his own chakra flow to sustain and control every movement of the summons like nagato did, edo tensei simply enabled his influence over them. Sasori was a puppet himself plus the puppet them selves didn't perform complex jutsu's on like nagato bodies.

Bro I know your strongly holding to your opinion and I respect that (even though you called me bias) but let me ask you this:

Animal path summons (dogs, centipede etc) asura path missiles/bombs, deva path chibaku tensei, naraka path techs, preta, and human path all attack itachi at the get go of the fight, with all due respect how can you logically assume itachi (one person) can dodge a missile then comeback to dodge a chibaku, then dodge the summons (at the same time) . Even if susanoo was activated to defend him it would wore off eventually or chibaku tensei would seal it (Like you said its MS not EMS). itachi (ms) alone is simply not enough, and you consistently seem to ignore this fact.

Yes I acknowledge the fact that you think its unfair nagato doesn't actually fight, but fact is each ninja has his/her own way of battling, and have secrets in their jutsu's/ techs, that if known prior would compromise their possibility of fighting efficiently and winning, Nagato is no exception.

But then again your entitled to your own opinion and so am I.

 

[PositiveEmotions]

kabuto does uses chakra dude

 

[Avani]

wasn't you that called me a fanboy. It was the other guy i replied to.

Also I can argue that when it comes to strength, Raikage can be stronger than any Pain body. Brute strength that is. The way I see it Raikage > any pain body at strength + itachi's susanoo stronger than sasuke's = itachi's susanoo will be able to protect him.

You can argue but, it won't be much impressive. Raikage can be stronger than any pain body= sure but Pain dogeded Rasen shuriken thrown at him quickly enough and was able to avoid Kyuubi attack. Pain attacks turned mountains into rubbles and not less than 8 tails were able to free Naruto from the chibaku Tensei. I doubt Raikage would be able to keep up.

Also if he is not trying to keep his opponant alive he would just suck their soul out like he did after Yahiko's death. The fight won't last long enough for his opponants to try much.

As for the guys who put too much faith in Itachi's genjutsu- you forget that Pain was not expecting genjutsu from Jiraiya in the first place. With Itachi he would. One chakra rod will be enough to heywire Itachi's chakra and reduce his ability to use his powers considerably if not totally. The toads failed to put Pain under gainjutsu the second time since he knew this time:

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Itachi's has no chance to win in a fair fight. He can win if he is able to sneak upto Nagato knowing he is crippled and catches him off guard. We have no idea if Susano would be able to break through chibaku Tensei either or can be just held in along with Itachi inside a small moon.

If Nagato had legs he probably would not be hiding in a tree and using dead bodies- just IMO. He couldn't move that freely himself so he had to improvise. He would certainly be more dangerous otherwise.

 

[Zaxen]

Of course Itachi wold win. He is as strong as Jiraya ( take a look at the datebook ). Pain said he wold have been dead if Jiraya had known his secret and Itachi is not stupid like Jiraya so Itachi is better than Pain. Watch '' itachi vs pain manga '' on youtube part 1 and 2

 

[Olorin]

 

[AbukariDogMan]

Of course Itachi wold win. He is as strong as Jiraya ( take a look at the datebook ). Pain said he wold have been dead if Jiraya had known his secret and Itachi is not stupid like Jiraya so Itachi is better than Pain. Watch '' itachi vs pain manga '' on youtube part 1 and 2

jiraya would have won if he new there were 4 more bodies , he would done the genjutsu again and caught all 6 of them, that's what nagato ment, nothing to do with power, nagato didnt even use his full power against hermit mode, whilst jiraya gave all he could.

 

[Zaxen]

In my opinion Itachi would defently win, because he ueses his brain, he's not crazy like pain. It si official That Itachi is stronger than Pain; watch '' itachi vs pain manga'' and you will see who is stronger

 

[Anub]

lol nice

 

[Olorin]

In my opinion Itachi would defently win, because he ueses his brain, he's not crazy like pain. It si official That Itachi is stronger than Pain; watch '' itachi vs pain manga'' and you will see who is stronger

that manga isnt exactly official

 

[Kakashi Fang]

Great Manga thing but Pain would win this one but it would be extremely close.

 

[apple pie of doom]

Itachi would win, hands down.
Genjutsu is extremely effective against the 6 paths of pain, as Jiraiya and the frogs have shown.
And that was a genjutsu that was'nt even close to Itachi's genjutsu level.

Itachi would wreck them.

 

[PositiveEmotions]

i stopped posting threads here because lately theres more lame threads