[Theory] The Raikage hates Naruto.

Avani

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Wrong, Naruto and the "Child of Prophecy" shit has gotten to his head. I liked how Kishi didn't make Naruto seem like a God in his altercation with the Raikage.

1) In all of those situations of capture was because it was war going on.2) Sasuke should have been made a missing ninja faster.
3) Kumo is stronger than Konoha militia wise.


Wrong: There was no war. Hinata and Kushina both were kidnapped while there was no war. Kumo just showed itself as opportunist.

If Kumo was stronger militywise then it was even a cheaper trick to be done by Raikage.

And you can just speculate. There is no actual proof of what you are saying. In fact Kumo would have destroyed Konoha long ago if it was that superior.

Current Konoha is sufferring though because it's yet to recover from the losses of Uchihas, Minato, Sarutobi, Jiraiya and so on-- it was a great loss Konoha kept suffering at a regular interval recently.
 

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[/B]

Wrong: There was no war. Hinata and Kushina both were kidnapped while there was no war. Kumo just showed itself as opportunist.

If Kumo was stronger militywise then it was even a cheaper trick to be done by Raikage.

And you can just speculate. There is no actual proof of what you are saying. In fact Kumo would have destroyed Konoha long ago if it was that superior.

Current Konoha is sufferring though because it's yet to recover from the losses of Uchihas, Minato, Sarutobi, Jiraiya and so on-- it was a great loss Konoha kept suffering at a regular interval recently.
There was war, or the thought to prevent war..

Kumo is the strongest village, Konoha is the most balanced village.
 

Avani

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There was war, or the thought to prevent war..

Kumo is the strongest village, Konoha is the most balanced village.
I don't remember the exact reason but kumo shinobies were in Konoha on some official business. At night they tried to tresspass the hospitality and kidnap Hinata. Hiyashi caught and killed the culprit. Kumo denied ouright that its shinobi was doing any such thing and accused Konoha back of murder and so on.

Kushina- again she was kidnapped while ordinary times. In fact nobody in the village noticed it for sometime or locate her except Minato. I wonder if it was one of those times Raikage faced MInato- when Minato rescued Kushina from Kumo.

If we take A, B and D out we do not know who else is really that strong in KUmo. So there is nothing to prove or disaporve your theory of KUmo being stronger than KOnoha.
 

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I don't remember the exact reason but kumo shinobies were in Konoha on some official business. At night they tried to tresspass the hospitality and kidnap Hinata. Hiyashi caught and killed the culprit. Kumo denied ouright that its shinobi was doing any such thing and accused Konoha back of murder and so on.

Kushina- again she was kidnapped while ordinary times. In fact nobody in the village noticed it for sometime or locate her except Minato. I wonder if it was one of those times Raikage faced MInato- when Minato rescued Kushina from Kumo.

If we take A, B and D out we do not know who else is really that strong in KUmo. So there is nothing to prove or disaporve your theory of KUmo being stronger than KOnoha.
An alleged kidnapping serves no purpose for Hidden Cloud, because they were the strongest Country.

Kushina was kidnapped simply because she was a great Jinchuriki, and I believe Madara manipulated the Cloud to destroy the Uzumaki clan, because of their allegiance to the Senju.

Their military strength is the best and they are the strongest country, whereas Konoha's military is good and they are the most balanced country of the five.
 

Avani

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An alleged kidnapping serves no purpose for Hidden Cloud, because they were the strongest Country.

Kushina was kidnapped simply because she was a great Jinchuriki, and I believe Madara manipulated the Cloud to destroy the Uzumaki clan, because of their allegiance to the Senju.

Their military strength is the best and they are the strongest country, whereas Konoha's military is good and they are the most balanced country of the five.
Allegged? Do you mean Kishi lied? They were after Bayakugan- that was the purpose. Rest of it I 'm noteven going to copmment... :| Have it your way.
 

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Allegged? Do you mean Kishi lied? They were after Bayakugan- that was the purpose. Rest of it I 'm noteven going to copmment... :| Have it your way.
I'm asking what significance the Byakugan has on Kumogakure, when w/ Hachibi they could wipe Konoha?

Not answer or can't answer?
 

leafeater

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do you really belive A' didn't have anything do with this? Don't be naive dude, thats naruto's style
It's not naive at all to believe A had no part in it whatsoever. He never intended on naruto entering the war in any capacity, not even as a janitor. Thus, he could care less about his ability, so long as he was away and protected from the enemy. Naruto was treated as a prisoner with privileges on that island. Imagine what he'd be doing if he hadn't received the prophecy that an octopus would help him master the Kyuubi, probably still looking at raccoon penis's. Kyuubi mode is useless if Naruto is hanging back fishing all day on tortoise island.

Also naruto sticking up for sasuke after A' thought sasuke captured his brother doesn't go well with raikage's opinion of naruto aswell. Naruto can't get in the way of these matters in the future. Naruto needs to accept sasuke is a noob and can't jump rings of fire everytime he noobs it up.
It was both the request as well as the manner of the request, the whole bowing/begging. He would've said, "hell no" anyway since he wanted blood for "blood."

Of course Naruto has to get in the way of these matters as you put it. He's out there trying to put an end to the cycle of hatred and revenge, which is his role as the destined child. Trying to stop the Raikage was just as much about preventing revenge as much as saving Sasuke. The same goes before that when he let the Cloud ninja punch and kick the crap out him instead of Sasuke if it would satisfy their desire for revenge. That Naruto is accepting his role is a sign of maturity, he can't help it that Sasuke is acting as a direct counterforce. This is the whole Kishi yin/yang deal.]

Wrong, Naruto and the "Child of Prophecy" shit has gotten to his head. I liked how Kishi didn't make Naruto seem like a God in his altercation with the Raikage.

1) In all of those situations of capture was because it was war going on.
2) Sasuke should have been made a missing ninja faster.
3) Kumo is stronger than Konoha militia wise.
Naruto has never been made god through power ups. Besides, he has yet to attack or defend himself against the Raikage, despite knowing he was going to get hit.

1.) False. Hinata was captured after a treaty was signed after a war. It wasn't mentioned about Kushina, if they were at war.

2.) Missing is OK, but not to be terminated. Why? All he did was train under Orochimaru for 3 years in order to kill the supposed villain behind the Uchiha massacre, and had killed three major bad guys: Orochimaru, Deidara and Itachi. Until he attacked Bee (Albeit "capturing" Bee is killing since the Hachibi's extraction would've led to death, and I'm sure Sasuke understood that) he was not a problem to anyone, and the first person he killed was a samurai at the Kage Summit after issuing orders to his team upon formation that killing was forbidden.
Yes, I know Orochimaru was on his deathbed, Deidara was a work of art, and Itachi let him win.

3.) What proof do you have of that? It's pure speculation, unless there's some databook on village strength I don't know of.

I don't remember the exact reason but kumo shinobies were in Konoha on some official business. At night they tried to tresspass the hospitality and kidnap Hinata. Hiyashi caught and killed the culprit. Kumo denied ouright that its shinobi was doing any such thing and accused Konoha back of murder and so on.

Kushina- again she was kidnapped while ordinary times. In fact nobody in the village noticed it for sometime or locate her except Minato. I wonder if it was one of those times Raikage faced MInato- when Minato rescued Kushina from Kumo.

If we take A, B and D out we do not know who else is really that strong in KUmo. So there is nothing to prove or disaporve your theory of KUmo being stronger than KOnoha.
The whole deal with Hinata was that the Cloud ninja were in town to sign a peace treaty. Their top, or an elite ninja, used the invited infiltration opportunity, presumably under orders, to kidnap her for her eyes to learn the secret of the Byakuugan. Hiashi one-shot killed him and they wanted blood, in the form of Hiashi's body. What they really wanted were his eyes of course, which is why Hizashi went in his place given that they were identical twins but he was in the side branch with the curse seal to protect the secrets of the Byakuugan.

I'm asking what significance the Byakugan has on Kumogakure, when w/ Hachibi they could wipe Konoha?

Not answer or can't answer?
First, please don't be rude and antagonistic (I underlined it), no one likes it. Also, some people don't respond to rude posts, which may have been the case. Depending on who reads the post they'll measure the value of the argument lower, so it benefits not just others but yourself as well to show some respect and maturity towards others, as you would like seen to yourself.

The significance of the Byakuugan to the Cloud is that they were prepared to go to war over it by performing a desperate move to kidnap Hinata, or at least the attempt before getting punked by Hiashi. Clearly, it was exposing weaknesses and giving the Leaf an advantage they didn't understand how to counter and were concerned. They were clearly concerned enough to take such drastic measures, and dumb enough to think it'd work.

Why do I say they didn't understand it? Well, you get about 800m of 359 degree vision on 3-axis, with side-branch members every where guarding the compound. Did they really think that they could get past that undetected? Was it a suicide mission or just dumb, maybe both, but it was desperate. Of course, it also appears that they may have known it would fail and were hoping for Hiashi, and didn't know about Hizashi. Either way they muffed it, and Kakashi didn't hesitate to mention it to the Raikage when Naruto asked for a favor about Sasuke, mentioning that the Leaf didn't go to war over that incident, implying the Cloud owed the Leaf.

The Cloud had the Hachibi (we don't know to what level it was controlled by Bee). If it wasn't fully controlled then it's not as helpful. Even know, the Raikage said that Bee is more likely to cause chaos on the battlefield than order, and he's a perfect Jinchuuriki of the Hachibi!

The Leaf had Jiraiya, Hiruzen, and Kakashi at the time you are referring, approximately 12 years ago I think. Not to mention the Uchiha clan was around including Itachi and Shisui. Plus there was ANBU ROOT and Danzou. If the Cloud were so superior they would never have signed the treaty, Hiruzen was a peace loving man. The Cloud got lucky probably.

Peace
 
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Supa

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It's not naive at all to believe A had no part in it whatsoever. He never intended on naruto entering the war in any capacity, not even as a janitor. Thus, he could care less about his ability, so long as he was away and protected from the enemy. Naruto was treated as a prisoner with privileges on that island. Imagine what he'd be doing if he hadn't received the prophecy that an octopus would help him master the Kyuubi, probably still looking at raccoon penis's. Kyuubi mode is useless if Naruto is hanging back fishing all day on tortoise island.



It was both the request as well as the manner of the request, the whole bowing/begging. He would've said, "hell no" anyway since he wanted blood for "blood."

Of course Naruto has to get in the way of these matters as you put it. He's out there trying to put an end to the cycle of hatred and revenge, which is his role as the destined child. Trying to stop the Raikage was just as much about preventing revenge as much as saving Sasuke. The same goes before that when he let the Cloud ninja punch and kick the crap out him instead of Sasuke if it would satisfy their desire for revenge. That Naruto is accepting his role is a sign of maturity, he can't help it that Sasuke is acting as a direct counterforce. This is the whole Kishi yin/yang deal.]



Naruto has never been made god through power ups. Besides, he has yet to attack or defend himself against the Raikage, despite knowing he was going to get hit.

1.) False. Hinata was captured after a treaty was signed after a war. It wasn't mentioned about Kushina, if they were at war.

2.) Missing is OK, but not to be terminated. Why? All he did was train under Orochimaru for 3 years in order to kill the supposed villain behind the Uchiha massacre, and had killed three major bad guys: Orochimaru, Deidara and Itachi. Until he attacked Bee (Albeit "capturing" Bee is killing since the Hachibi's extraction would've led to death, and I'm sure Sasuke understood that) he was not a problem to anyone, and the first person he killed was a samurai at the Kage Summit after issuing orders to his team upon formation that killing was forbidden.
Yes, I know Orochimaru was on his deathbed, Deidara was a work of art, and Itachi let him win.

3.) What proof do you have of that? It's pure speculation, unless there's some databook on village strength I don't know of.



The whole deal with Hinata was that the Cloud ninja were in town to sign a peace treaty. Their top, or an elite ninja, used the invited infiltration opportunity, presumably under orders, to kidnap her for her eyes to learn the secret of the Byakuugan. Hiashi one-shot killed him and they wanted blood, in the form of Hiashi's body. What they really wanted were his eyes of course, which is why Hizashi went in his place given that they were identical twins but he was in the side branch with the curse seal to protect the secrets of the Byakuugan.



First, please don't be rude and antagonistic (I underlined it), no one likes it. Also, some people don't respond to rude posts, which may have been the case. Depending on who reads the post they'll measure the value of the argument lower, so it benefits not just others but yourself as well to show some respect and maturity towards others, as you would like seen to yourself.

The significance of the Byakuugan to the Cloud is that they were prepared to go to war over it by performing a desperate move to kidnap Hinata, or at least the attempt before getting punked by Hiashi. Clearly, it was exposing weaknesses and giving the Leaf an advantage they didn't understand how to counter and were concerned. They were clearly concerned enough to take such drastic measures, and dumb enough to think it'd work.

Why do I say they didn't understand it? Well, you get about 800m of 359 degree vision on 3-axis, with side-branch members every where guarding the compound. Did they really think that they could get past that undetected? Was it a suicide mission or just dumb, maybe both, but it was desperate. Of course, it also appears that they may have known it would fail and were hoping for Hiashi, and didn't know about Hizashi. Either way they muffed it, and Kakashi didn't hesitate to mention it to the Raikage when Naruto asked for a favor about Sasuke, mentioning that the Leaf didn't go to war over that incident, implying the Cloud owed the Leaf.

The Cloud had the Hachibi (we don't know to what level it was controlled by Bee). If it wasn't fully controlled then it's not as helpful. Even know, the Raikage said that Bee is more likely to cause chaos on the battlefield than order, and he's a perfect Jinchuuriki of the Hachibi!

The Leaf had Jiraiya, Hiruzen, and Kakashi at the time you are referring, approximately 12 years ago I think. Not to mention the Uchiha clan was around including Itachi and Shisui. Plus there was ANBU ROOT and Danzou. If the Cloud were so superior they would never have signed the treaty, Hiruzen was a peace loving man. The Cloud got lucky probably.

Peace
It's been stated that Konoha was the most balanced nation, but Kumo was the most powerful milita nation, which is why they never needed Akatsuki.
 

leafeater

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It's been stated that Konoha was the most balanced nation, but Kumo was the most powerful milita nation, which is why they never needed Akatsuki.
Fair enough, you may be right on that one point. I'm unsure of your stance on the others I addressed. Please tell me your source though, and if it's a legit source, I'm cool with you being right.

Peace
 

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Where did this discussion go to? O_O

And only in the past 16 years would Kumo have a chance at defeating konoha, due to the loss of the fourth and their jinchuuriki. Seeing as Minato created the rasengan after observing the TBB enough times, it's safe to assume that Kushina could use TBB.

And IMO, in general the konoha members are stronger than the Kumo members. The top members of Kumo are the only things that give them power, (Darui and A.) At this point, I think that Naruto could defeat B, TBB or not, Naruto's kyuubi mode is incredibly powerful.
 

Avani

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It's been stated that Konoha was the most balanced nation, but Kumo was the most powerful milita nation, which is why they never needed Akatsuki.
By whom? Link please? I don't remember Konoha using Akatsuki either, in fact fighting and killing its members off even after losing some of its finest shinobies.

As for earlier I didn't see any point in answering an argument, I didn't find interesting enough. Waste of time, yours and mine.
 

leafeater

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Where did this discussion go to? O_O

And only in the past 16 years would Kumo have a chance at defeating konoha, due to the loss of the fourth and their jinchuuriki. Seeing as Minato created the rasengan after observing the TBB enough times, it's safe to assume that Kushina could use TBB.

And IMO, in general the konoha members are stronger than the Kumo members. The top members of Kumo are the only things that give them power, (Darui and A.) At this point, I think that Naruto could defeat B, TBB or not, Naruto's kyuubi mode is incredibly powerful.
Regarding the discourse, it's gone a long way from where it start off-topic. The Cloud and Leaf history we're talking about is related, but not to this degree. This is inevitable. It's like positive geometric growth, the longer it goes on, the further we'll diverge from the OP.

Unless he saw Bee do it when he was fighting A or any number of battles. All 9 Jinchuuriki could do it, the most likely are the perfect Jinchuuriki's like Bee and Yura the Mizukage of the 3-tails or Kushina. With the FTG on Kushina's seal, even if she lost control, he could be there in an instant to repair the seal.

By whom? Link please? I don't remember Konoha using Akatsuki either, in fact fighting and killing its members off even after losing some of its finest shinobies.


As for earlier I didn't see any point in answering an argument, I didn't find interesting enough. Waste of time, yours and mine.
Konoha never used Akatsuki (Onooki admitted it though), but they had the most to join I think (According to the Raikage I believe): Orochimaru, Itachi, Sasuke, and technically Madara. Of course, this just indicates how strong Konoha is despite 3 of it's strongest members ever leaving to join the axis of evil while still being elite. Technically, I guess Kabuto goes in there too. Thus, aside from Zetsu, the only surviving members from Akatsuki are from Konoha, lol. :D

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's three of us (I asked, but I'm not quoting myself) that have asked for proof of this statement. If he has proof like a manga page fine; otherwise, no, I don't believe it. Either he hasn't posted because he doesn't have proof, or because he simple hasn't been around to post the proof he has. I'd give it a day or so before jumping to a conclusion. Patience is always nice...

As for earlier I didn't see any point in answering an argument, I didn't find interesting enough. Waste of time, yours and mine.
I figured as much, and conjectured that in my response to him. I presume this was the rude one?


Peace
 
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HamzaVeli

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if you read the latest chapter - the raikage says "1 of the sannins told him, Minato was the worlds saviour, and then he concludes, by saying "where is the saviour know, in this crisis - so in a way your theory sounds plausible - he basically hated minato, and yet admired him - and in a way - the raikage simply hates naruto because of his actions and his way ofo doing things, i guess its true when they say like father, Like son -
 

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I agree. Minato must of been really strong. The last chapter proves. However, did Raikage know this in their first meeting? I don't think Raikage should be the general of the alliance. I think Mizukage or Tsuhikage should be now. lol

If Minato was stronger than Raikage. Then how come raikage still lives now?
 

HamzaVeli

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I agree. Minato must of been really strong. The last chapter proves. However, did Raikage know this in their first meeting? I don't think Raikage should be the general of the alliance. I think Mizukage or Tsuhikage should be now. lol

If Minato was stronger than Raikage. Then how come raikage still lives now?

the raikage never had to risk his life for the village - lol what a muppet -
 

leafeater

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I agree. Minato must of been really strong. The last chapter proves. However, did Raikage know this in their first meeting? I don't think Raikage should be the general of the alliance. I think Mizukage or Tsuhikage should be now. lol

If Minato was stronger than Raikage. Then how come raikage still lives now?
All they need to do is duct tape no jutsu Naruto to the Raikage for a week. By that time, he should be putty in Naruto's hands, lol. :)
 

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Konoha never used Akatsuki (Onooki admitted it though), but they had the most to join I think (According to the Raikage I believe): Orochimaru, Itachi, Sasuke, and technically Madara. Of course, this just indicates how strong Konoha is despite 3 of it's strongest members ever leaving to join the axis of evil while still being elite. Technically, I guess Kabuto goes in there too. Thus, aside from Zetsu, the only surviving members from Akatsuki are from Konoha, lol. :D

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I was trying to ignore that part. :D Beside as you said it only indicates how strong Konoha was that its missing nins set up their free lance network succesfully and even rest of konoha still coped with rest of the villages and Akatsuki.

That's three of us (I asked, but I'm not quoting myself) that have asked for proof of this statement. If he has proof like a manga page fine; otherwise, no, I don't believe it. Either he hasn't posted because he doesn't have proof, or because he simple hasn't been around to post the proof he has. I'd give it a day or so before jumping to a conclusion. Patience is always nice...
It is ... but I have seen a few other threads by him. Past experienc says don't expect it much. You may end up waiting for Godot.


I figured as much, and conjectured that in my response to him. I presume this was the rude one?


Peace
Rudeness in the last response was kind of a bait- I didn't take it.
I like good disscussions, analysis or fun debates whether people agree with me or not. When they just try to provoke me I usually leave.

earlier- He seemed to argue just for the sake of an argument and I decided it wasn't worth it. I have seen enough of his posts. He usually goes for the controvercy without backing up his statements with solid evidence.
 
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leafeater

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the raikage never had to risk his life for the village - lol what a muppet -
Where is there any proof of that? He taught Minato, to what level of intensity we don't know, repeatedly. That alone, is risking your life if Minato (whom the Raikage never thought would never be surpassed) ever was supposed to kill him, which he may have.

I was trying to ignore that part. :D Beside as you said it only indicates how strong Konoha was that its missing nins set up their free lance network succesfully and even rest of konoha still coped with rest of the villages and Akatsuki.



It is ... but I have seen a few other threads by him. Past experienc says don't expect it much. You may end up waiting for Godot.




Rudeness in the last response was kind of a bait- I didn't take it.
I like good disscussions, analysis or fun debates whether people agree with me or not. When they just try to provoke me I usually leave.

earlier- He seemed to argue just for the sake of an argument and I decided it wasn't worth it. I have seen enough of his posts. He usually goes for the controvercy without backing up his statements with solid evidence.
yeah, I don't expect the evidence, but I'm an optimist. By the way, way to avoid the bait. I didn't mind since it wasn't for me.
 
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