Who is this "Tobi" you speak of?

[Hellistic]

That, and there's NO WAY obito can control the 9 tails, be itachi's sensei, cast a strong enough jutsu to control the mizukage, have space time jutsu greater than the 4th hokage, founded akatsuki and know so much about the uchiha/senjus history and the secrets of the Sage of the 6 paths........oh, and counter kakashi's kamui and sasuke's ametarasu.U_U

For me, that spells madara with a capital 'm'(.....nd he held a grudge against the uchiha clan so would help in its destruction, yup, u get my point).

This is a great point. However, this is where a confirmed timeline by Kishimoto would come in handy. The idea that obito couldn't control the nine-tails makes perfect sense, and yet someone had to have saved obito for him to even be considered alive in any theory, so depending on who saved him, and his development of the MS during the inbetween time, the possibility of controlling the 9tails is a stretch but not impossible.
The space time jutsu is the clincher here, and again something like this would depend on who saved him if it were Obito. We have seen plenty of jutsu be trained in naruto in a span of weeks, such as the rasengan so its possible but highly unlikely and I like this debunk the best.
I haven't seen anything to prove Madara controlled a Mizukage, and if he did, it wasnt necessarly at the time before the ninetails attack and the birth of Naruto.
Knowlegdge of the Uchihas is easily explained in that everyone Uchiha knew about the Uchiha issues against the leaf pretty much except young individuals like sasuke. So the fact that Obito would have that knowledge just as Itachi did is not that much of a stretch.
And knowledge of the SotSP is not show nor is countering amaterasu or kamui until way way later so his skill had plenty of time to increase by then as well.

 

[sasuke721]

This is a great point. However, this is where a confirmed timeline by Kishimoto would come in handy. The idea that obito couldn't control the nine-tails makes perfect sense, and yet someone had to have saved obito for him to even be considered alive in any theory, so depending on who saved him, and his development of the MS during the inbetween time, the possibility of controlling the 9tails is a stretch but not impossible.
The space time jutsu is the clincher here, and again something like this would depend on who saved him if it were Obito. We have seen plenty of jutsu be trained in naruto in a span of weeks, such as the rasengan so its possible but highly unlikely and I like this debunk the best.
I haven't seen anything to prove Madara controlled a Mizukage, and if he did, it wasnt necessarly at the time before the ninetails attack and the birth of Naruto.
Knowlegdge of the Uchihas is easily explained in that everyone Uchiha knew about the Uchiha issues against the leaf pretty much except young individuals like sasuke. So the fact that Obito would have that knowledge just as Itachi did is not that much of a stretch.
And knowledge of the SotSP is not show nor is countering amaterasu or kamui until way way later so his skill had plenty of time to increase by then as well.

here's the start of where it shows madara controlling the mizukage

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just read it and the next few pages

 

[Hellistic]

You mentioned kakashi and danzo as an explanation for it always being active. however, for both of them it drains their chakra very quickly when they use the sharingan. that's because they are not actually uchiha. tobi does not suffer from this effect when using his sharingan so he must be uchiha.



this is also proof that he can still be uchiha even though it is always active. itachi only ever deactivated his sharingan when he was completely drained of chakra, like when he was fighting sasuke

or when he just used his ms and didn't want to further go blind, like after using tsukuyomi on sasuke and amaterasu on the frog prison.

and now as for the original post:
it can't be obito due to the same reason that many people posted regarding the age issues. Obito would have been a young kid during the fox attack if he were still alive. However, tobi had been an adult when he attacked the leaf.

i think that it is madara and will continue to think so until there is strong evidence and proof, that means no speculation garbage, prove otherwise. madara gained the ems, so that alone would make him able to survive.

he is able to survive, and be an "invincible immortal" because he has an ems. he is still alive because he is immortal but he is a shell of his former self after his fight with the first hokage. This limits his ability to use the full power of his sharingan but does still keep him alive and able to use the time-space jutsu.
the entire argument against madara that you gave to start this thread was based around kabuto's summon. you said it can't be madara based on your assumption that the summon was madara. which until we see the summon, that is huge speculation and a prediction that you can not base any facts off of. there are plenty of shinobi that would scare madara, such as izuna this would scare madara for many reasons:
1. it's his brother. who wants to fight their brother?
2. they were said to be equal in every way, except that madara was older. so now that madara is a shell of his former self, the revived izuna would be stronger than him.
the summon could also be the sage of the six paths or some shinobi that we have never seen before, seeing as many shinobi have been revived that we never heard of, such as ginkaku, kinkaku, gari, paku, the seven swordsmen, and the former kages.

so... i think that just about covers everything

Its not all that big of a jump to assume that it would be Madara within that coffin. I do agree that if "Tobi" is Madara then your idea on Inzuna makes perfect sense however.
What makes me doubt that it is Madara at all is the fact that he would have retained both Sharingans of his own, thus still having EMS, which proof has yet to be shown. While he did have two sharingan during his fight with Konan, the idea that he has an entire wall of boxes full of Sharingan taken from the Uchiha clan during the deaths of them all covers that angle.
What I would like to say is that a sharingan that doesnt belong to a direct blood relative seems to have to be covered up. Both Kakashi and Danzo kept theirs covered up. "Tobi" sacrifices the eye thats covered up with his mask to save himself against Konan. So I believe its more then likely that whoever "Tobi" is although they have one sharingan that belongs to himself, the other eye is merely a replacement from another Uchiha. Which explains his level of sharingan merely at MS and not EMS.

 

[sasuke721]

Its not all that big of a jump to assume that it would be Madara within that coffin. I do agree that if "Tobi" is Madara then your idea on Inzuna makes perfect sense however.
What makes me doubt that it is Madara at all is the fact that he would have retained both Sharingans of his own, thus still having EMS, which proof has yet to be shown. While he did have two sharingan during his fight with Konan, the idea that he has an entire wall of boxes full of Sharingan taken from the Uchiha clan during the deaths of them all covers that angle.
What I would like to say is that a sharingan that doesnt belong to a direct blood relative seems to have to be covered up. Both Kakashi and Danzo kept theirs covered up. "Tobi" sacrifices the eye thats covered up with his mask to save himself against Konan. So I believe its more then likely that whoever "Tobi" is although they have one sharingan that belongs to himself, the other eye is merely a replacement from another Uchiha. Which explains his level of sharingan merely at MS and not EMS.

you make a good point on having one of his own and one from someone else. i think i have an explanation for why to only have one of his sharingans. i think he intentionally only keeps on of his eyes on him at a time, the visible one. i think he does this so that he can use izanagi if necessary, like against konan, without needing to lose one of his eyes, which if he is madara is an ems. that's what the wall of sharingans is for. he keeps them so that he can continue to use izanagi and then easily replace his "throw away eye" that is used only in case of emergency for izanagi.

 

[Yoso Noko]

good point. this may not be true however as he may want the different mangekyo powers... hmmmm...

 

[Yoso Noko]

Then again, it still could be a she... I don't know anymore...

 

[Hellistic]

you make a good point on having one of his own and one from someone else. i think i have an explanation for why to only have one of his sharingans. i think he intentionally only keeps on of his eyes on him at a time, the visible one. i think he does this so that he can use izanagi if necessary, like against konan, without needing to lose one of his eyes, which if he is madara is an ems. that's what the wall of sharingans is for. he keeps them so that he can continue to use izanagi and then easily replace his "throw away eye" that is used only in case of emergency for izanagi.

It's possible, however I am not sure we could classifiy izanagi as a EMS ability, since Danzo used the eyes for the ability without EMS. I would say it is more of a sharingan jutsu in general.
Although you make a good point with why Madara would only keep one of his sharingans with him, the question would be could he even perform EMS without having both eyes as Sharingan. The way it is described by Itachi I would say you need both eyes. And if he did have them both it would be more powerful to keep them together and use EMS abilities over Izanagi.

 

[Hellistic]

here's the start of where it shows madara controlling the mizukage
just read it and the next few pages

Oh thanks for this, I had completely forgotten about this particular scene. From what I read though it doesn't seem to give an accurate placement within the timeline for this event. So it could potentially of happened after the events of 9 tails and the Uchiha destruction.

 

[-Yard-]

actually i half way believe that tobi is madara


idc if the manga/anime says it i think hes using that name for power

but definitely not obito

 

[sasuke721]

It's possible, however I am not sure we could classifiy izanagi as a EMS ability, since Danzo used the eyes for the ability without EMS. I would say it is more of a sharingan jutsu in general.
Although you make a good point with why Madara would only keep one of his sharingans with him, the question would be could he even perform EMS without having both eyes as Sharingan. The way it is described by Itachi I would say you need both eyes. And if he did have them both it would be more powerful to keep them together and use EMS abilities over Izanagi.

i didn't mean that izanagi was an ems ability. i meant he keeps his original right eye, which if he is madara is an ems. he then inserts random other sharingans into his left eye so that he can use izanagi without losing his original eye.
although i guess none of this actually matters because now it is a rinegan

 

[Hellistic]

i didn't mean that izanagi was an ems ability. i meant he keeps his original right eye, which if he is madara is an ems. he then inserts random other sharingans into his left eye so that he can use izanagi without losing his original eye.
although i guess none of this actually matters because now it is a rinegan

Thats true. I get what your saying now. That would be a really strange power though to just swap out eyes haha.
Most people shoot down Obito theories right from the start without any real logic behind their words. But I am really open to whatever to be honest.
I could actually see Madara being alive and being the one that rescues Obito and trains him. Now that would leave the idea that either Obito kills Madara, or that Madara is still alive and that Obito while being "Tobi" would know of Izuna, and since working with Madara would rightly fear him. Which either way would cover the coffin thing. Because if Obito killed Madara then it would be Madara in the coffin if not then Izuna.

 

[sasuke721]

Thats true. I get what your saying now. That would be a really strange power though to just swap out eyes haha.
Most people shoot down Obito theories right from the start without any real logic behind their words. But I am really open to whatever to be honest.
I could actually see Madara being alive and being the one that rescues Obito and trains him. Now that would leave the idea that either Obito kills Madara, or that Madara is still alive and that Obito while being "Tobi" would know of Izuna, and since working with Madara would rightly fear him. Which either way would cover the coffin thing. Because if Obito killed Madara then it would be Madara in the coffin if not then Izuna.

he can clearly swap eyes pretty quickly, just look at how quick he got the rinegan in. although your right that it doesn't make it any less strange to keep giving yourself eye transplants.

and i think that may be a good call on the obito/madara/tobi/final coffin relationship. if obito was trained by madara, he would know about madara and fear him. except for the one issue of being afraid of the coffin. if obito was trained by madara and then managed to killed him, i doubt obito would fear the revived madara. that's the only issue with that theory, but then again there is no theory out there that does not have some evidence against it so i guess that makes it as good as any other idea.

 

[Hellistic]

he can clearly swap eyes pretty quickly, just look at how quick he got the rinegan in. although your right that it doesn't make it any less strange to keep giving yourself eye transplants.

and i think that may be a good call on the obito/madara/tobi/final coffin relationship. if obito was trained by madara, he would know about madara and fear him. except for the one issue of being afraid of the coffin. if obito was trained by madara and then managed to killed him, i doubt obito would fear the revived madara. that's the only issue with that theory, but then again there is no theory out there that does not have some evidence against it so i guess that makes it as good as any other idea.

Yeah thats true. But then I didn't mean that Obito fought Madara straight up. More like a kill you while your sleeping type deal or something along those lines. If in fact he killed him or whatever. That would be the connection of fear vs Madara, since he would know what Madara is capable of and since he didnt fight him straight up. At least thats how that would work out in just one of my million theories hah.

 

[sasuke721]

Yeah thats true. But then I didn't mean that Obito fought Madara straight up. More like a kill you while your sleeping type deal or something along those lines. If in fact he killed him or whatever. That would be the connection of fear vs Madara, since he would know what Madara is capable of and since he didnt fight him straight up. At least thats how that would work out in just one of my million theories hah.

dammit, i had been convinced that it was madara but now you are starting to persuade me to believe that it is actually obito. that does make your theory pretty plausible. still though i will hold to my belief that it is madara until it is stated so in the manga.
however part of me still thinks that it is actually someone we have never seen or heard of yet.

 

[Mugetsu]

Well it is possible that Madara is using Obito's body to become more "younger". Nobody want's to see a decomposed face after all

 

[Hellistic]

Well it is possible that Madara is using Obito's body to become more "younger". Nobody want's to see a decomposed face after all

I certainly wouldn't mind if it was Madara. Its just that mask lol, the fact that Kishimoto gave him a mask makes me feel that the character has something to hide about his persona. It could certainly be Madara using Obito's body and that would also make the coffin containing Izuna theory correct as well.
I definately believe that whatever it is in actuality that it surrounds those three characters. The other theories about inside the coffin being oro or the sage of six paths, just dont really make as much sense.
I am certainly interested in learning what the other two paths are as well, since sharingan, rinnegan, senju, and 10 tails are the first 4 paths.

 

[Psychotic X]

YES! The Tobito theory is back!!!

 

[McKnockout]

What a long read. But once I read the possibility of Obito I stopped. :|

Tobi is not Obito. Obito is not Tobi. When kakashi died he saw the ghosts of Obito, Rin, and Minato.

Same, it started off well..But Tobi isn't Obito, I stopped as well.

 

[Sage of Wings]

I just say lets wait until the official revealing

 

[Yoso Noko]

But my job is to make predictions.