[Discussion] Pain and Itachi

[ReLax -]

Wow, people are still going on about this? I mean this battle is a undecidable. We have not seen Itachi at his best or Pein and the biggest problem would be Itachi's disease and Pein doesn't have the Rinnegan fully mastered so both are at a disadvantage.

Itachi's Genjutsu could easily kill Pein but Pein isn't that stupid and would figure out a way to fight Itachi. The reason why he got caught by Jiriaya's because he did not think Jiraya knew a genjutsu and to top it off it was a musical one.

I'm both, Itachi and Pein fan but this battle is just undecidable and so we should all just agree with that.

 

[moudhgalya]

When Jiraiya used the Sage Genjutsu on Pain, it disrupted their shared vision. Allowing him to take out 3 paths easily. Now Itachi was a genjutsu master. To say that genjutsu will not work on pain is absolutely false. The arguments of "they are lifeless/ reanimated bodies it won't work" is stupid in my opinion, otherwise Jiraiya and the Sage toads would have failed during their genjutsu attempt..

Tsukoyomi works by traumatising an opponent...wearing him down mentally and causing a little physical damage...Now how exactly do you think Tsukoyomi will work..

The frogs genjutsu paralysed by bodies of the Paths....I mean using their own chakra to restrict the movement of the paths....So can Tsukoyomi do the same?

People who just assume that pain will absorb Amaterasu should stop making that assumption. Amaterasu isn't a regular ninjutsu. I don't think its simple for it to just absorb Amaterasu easily. I'm not saying it will automatically work but its not safe to assume that it won't.

Its still a NINJUTSU and all ninjutsus gets absorbed until and unless stated explicitly by the author.

As far as the Path that re animates the other ones. Itachi is a genius, I'm pretty sure he will figure out a plan to take him out. If Naruto did it why do you think Itachi won't be able to? (This also made me question Pain's intelligence if her fell for such a simple plan.)

Yeah he will figure out eventually...But there is a very high chance that he'll get killed in the process...

Naruto did what? ( Are you trolling?)

Now I believe Itachi is strong enough and fast enough to take out most of the paths. (same way Naruto did). The only path I see him having problems with is Deva (Yahiko). Now if you look at his Susano'o he has the Yata Mirror which repelled KIRIN (arguably one of the strongest attacks in the series), I'm pretty sure it can repel Almighty Push, and Universal Pull.

I agree...his speed and taijutsu prowess outclasses most of the paths...But the one thing you must remember is that he'll be facing all six of them at once...Even if he goes and kills a path there will be others who'll be attacking at the same time...

Also as stated earlier..Nagato can resort to CT to take out Susanoo....

 

[pemayozer]

Ok wow. I have to write this again because you haven't read any of the comments it seems.
I will copy what I previously said

"So Itachi's genjutsu affects the vision, which I said before (about 100 times) and thus all the pains including Nagato are affected at the same time"

"Itachi's genjutsu affects the eyes + all of the pains' vision is connected, including Nagato's + unlike Gai, Nagato's strategy relies heavily on eye-sight when in battle = Itachi traps ALL of the pains if he traps one, including Nagato and even if the other pains are not affected, Nagato is affected.

Unless anyone thinks that Nagato is immune to the strongest genjutsu user known in the naruto universe, stop claiming that "Pain ownz Itachi" please. Thank you"

I guess that's enough. In a genjutsu battle, it's not Itachi vs 6, it's Itachi vs 1 almost, because whichever pain body gets trapped, NAGATO GETS TRAPPED.

knife throwing skills? really? we're way beyond that...I could say that Nagato's food eating skills are not useless in this battle then.
amaterasu: absorbed by ONE pain, but not the rest and if it touches one of them it keeps burning until it burns them completely
susano'o: can seal their bodies the way it did with orochimaru's maybe? what if it kills the pain that can revive the bodies of the other pains? How can he keep reviving them?
STOP CLAIMING THAT PAIN CAN DO ANYTHING. It's one pain for each different skill. If the pain that revives the rest gets killed, they stop reviving. easy.
Itachi while in susano'o is untouchable by ANYONE, he can use amaterasu and destroy 5 pains while one of the absorbed it, he can use the totsuka blade to seal them away, he can use genjutsu to capture NAGATO, NOT A ROBOT, PLEASE UNDERSTAND WHY (or look up older posts where it is explained in more of a detail). And most likely Itachi has other tricks up his sleeve, seeing how he is in sharingan user and he can copy techniques.

wat the hell....
itachi's genjutsu affetcs the eye hahahahaha omg hahahahahaha
and wat after affecting the eye it gives u a eye disease like conjunctivitis hahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahaha
seriously man are u retarded or something
eye contact is a medium for casting genjutsu.. it doesnt affect the eye.

similarly jirayas toad song genjutsu was a sound based , sound was a medium for casting genjust it didnt affect ur ear..

Nagato communicated through the peins
so
nagato saw wat other pein saw,
nagato also heard wat all pein heard,
so if teh strongest sound based genjusu didnt affect nagato but only the bodies
how will the strongest eye based genjutsu affect the real pein.

so will u accept facts now or still go on with ur meaning less
genjutsu discussion.

Itachi while in susano is untouchable, well so is Deva pein with this shinra tensie,
absorption pein that absorbs all ninjutsu.
how long can itachi mantain susano.. can it really compare against the rinnegan...
think use ur brain , dont be a mindless zombie,
if they stand in a line with absorption in the first which they do how will he destroy all pain with ametarasu.
Do u think pein will just stand and say cut me with ur bday knife n seal me ..
would he just blast the shit out of itachi with sinra tensie or rip his soul..
PEIN WAS ITACHI"S boss,
he used to order itachi to go F**KING get toilet paper for him
dat should make things clear

 

[MidgeMush]

The black flames take 7 days and night to go out, if the pain asorbed the ninjutsu would be there for a long time leaving itachi to attack another one with the same jutsu

 

[pemayozer]

lol k so I won't have to answer Pemayozer cause it seems you had it covered
Pffff them Nagato hardcore fans are the real Pain aren't they ?! U_U

Oh come on , wat r u a loser or something.....
build up ur own opinion rather than nodding ur head to others..
u know u shoudl act like a man rather than some1 else's lapdog, even if its just once, try and c u'll feel better
hahaha

 

[moudhgalya]

Nagato communicated through the peins

I got lost here for a moment ( I hope U understand)......

Seriously man...It'd be better if we use Pain instead pf Pein...

 

[moudhgalya]

The black flames take 7 days and night to go out, if the pain asorbed the ninjutsu would be there for a long time leaving itachi to attack another one with the same jutsu

Yeah like..Itachi won't be strained after a MS jutsu and use another one instantly..while the other 5 will be waiting for Itachi to attack...amirite?

 

[MidgeMush]

Yeah your right but look how many times he set it off against sasuke, the topic said if he wasnt going blind or ill, Itachi also has genjutsu up his sleeve so the fact all there eyes are linked, would be pretty simple to get them out of it, I know pain was the leader of Akatsuki but that doesnt mean another member couldnt have taken him out even Kakazu had a good chance

 

[moudhgalya]

Yeah your right but look how many times he set it off against sasuke, the topic said if he wasnt going blind or ill, Itachi also has genjutsu up his sleeve so the fact all there eyes are linked, would be pretty simple to get them out of it, I know pain was the leader of Akatsuki but that doesnt mean another member couldnt have taken him out even Kakazu had a good chance

I know he can use MS techniques multiple times...But he's facing 6 opponents at once here...

WHat's stopping Deva from using a ST to injure him severely or Asura path from using lasers and missiles .

Eyes are linked but the chakra network isn't....Genjutsu works by disrupting chakra flow...and show me Itachi trapping multiple persons in a genjutsu at one..Also Tsukoyomi on one person puts sever strain on Itachi's body...

This is all about match ups....Even Kakuzu loses against Pain...But I'm not gonna go off topic....

 

[pemayozer]

Yeah your right but look how many times he set it off against sasuke, the topic said if he wasnt going blind or ill, Itachi also has genjutsu up his sleeve so the fact all there eyes are linked, would be pretty simple to get them out of it, I know pain was the leader of Akatsuki but that doesnt mean another member couldnt have taken him out even Kakazu had a good chance

Midget Mush here says
"Kakazu had a good chance"
do we have a thread called stupid comments of all time...m sure this 1 can make it preetyup in the list

next thing we know ur saying iruka also had a gud chance arguing
he would sneek up at night and cut the throat of sleeping nagato...

 

[moudhgalya]

OMFG!!!!! you guys are still arguing????? if ya'll are going to argue pls reread what has all read been said, i mean damm! we already discussed everything about the 2 and had facts to back it up and made sense of it all. yall are arguing bout stuff yall think is true with no evidence. so plssss i beg you, let this thread die, no one will win. no matter what none of you will change ur opinion, lets just agree that they are both great and could go either way. THANK YOU!... SMDH...

LOL I think I debated on this topic ..like 5-6 times...New threads keep coming up...Still debating if Genjutsu can effect Pain's bodies...so far no one provided good enough proof/ arguments that it will effect Pain's bodies....

Tbh arguing against Uchihas is fun....

 

[Stampy]

Oh come on , wat r u a loser or something.....
build up ur own opinion rather than nodding ur head to others..
u know u shoudl act like a man rather than some1 else's lapdog, even if its just once, try and c u'll feel better
hahaha

LoL? If you had read this thread you would not be saying the same arguments that were said in the first place (yeah dude, you're not even second coming with these arguments, you're more like 5th or 6th lost count...), you would also know that I come up with my own arguments. But should I come up with my arguments yet again when someone already prooved my point right above?

wat the hell....
itachi's genjutsu affetcs the eye hahahahaha omg hahahahahaha
and wat after affecting the eye it gives u a eye disease like conjunctivitis hahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahaha
seriously man are u retarded or something
eye contact is a medium for casting genjutsu.. it doesnt affect the eye.

similarly jirayas toad song genjutsu was a sound based , sound was a medium for casting genjust it didnt affect ur ear..

That your best shot at countering an argument? How old are you exactly? Sure he had a poor use of words but stop playing stupid you understood him, no need to get personal.

Nagato communicated through the peins
so
nagato saw wat other pein saw,
nagato also heard wat all pein heard,
so if teh strongest sound based genjusu didnt affect nagato but only the bodies
how will the strongest eye based genjutsu affect the real pein.

so will u accept facts now or still go on with ur meaning less
genjutsu discussion.

Yeah okay good point, but Jiraiya's toads duet was aiming at BODIES, not souls. Itachi's Tsukoyomi aims at Souls, not bodies. (Do you get the difference now?)

Itachi while in susano is untouchable, well so is Deva pein with this shinra tensie,absorption pein that absorbs all ninjutsu.

Last time I checked Naruto killed them both with his own fists/rasengan. So doesn't really qualifies as untouchable now does it?

how long can itachi mantain susano.. can it really compare against the rinnegan...
think use ur brain , dont be a mindless zombie,

That's the whole point of the thread. Cut the insults omg.

if they stand in a line with absorption in the first which they do how will he destroy all pain with ametarasu.
Do u think pein will just stand and say cut me with ur bday knife n seal me ..
would he just blast the shit out of itachi with sinra tensie or rip his soul..

So Itachi would just stand around and say, go ahead hit me with da tensei and rip ma soul?! Dude its bad when I can use your arguments just as easily, that's how you know your logic is flawed.

PEIN WAS ITACHI"S boss,
he used to order itachi to go F**KING get toilet paper for him
dat should make things clear

Yeah Cause Itachi was a good guy, have you even followed the manga?! Why would he run the organization he is doing spying and damage control in?! I bet you also are one of those guys that actually believe Itachi actually lost against Sasuke! xd

 

[chickmagnet]

Irony and hypocrisy at its best!

lmao good catch thats funny as hell

 

[chickmagnet]

itachi's genjutsu is based on sharingan which makes him almost unbeatble in a one on one match but when out numbered 6-1 its preety much useless.

So he will have to use other things
his knife throwing skills : no use
ametarasu: absorbed by absorption pain
susano: may probably take out a few summons and 1-2 bodies at the top but
no problem, revived again.

lets c pain: even if itachi take out all the 6 bodies which is impossible but stll lets assume that, wat he will have no chakra left and in no condition to fight where is nagato is somewhere safe n sound
we have pain that can rip out soul
shinra tensie
chibaku tensie
super wicked summons, invisble summons
robot man with lasers and missiles and inhman strength
do genjutsu work on robots????
even if u torture 6 path of pain in genjutsu, does torturing dead bodies make sense.
they dont feel pain, u use ametarasu and they still keep on fightin making them even more deadlier.
they are revived very easily.
there is a f**king dragon thing which kill u as if u just touch it
chakra absorption, and ninjutsu absorption

how can itachi beat it....
if he was he wouldnt be a subordinate taking orders... he took orders coz he
was weak

yo u make very good poins but itachi weak nah he wasnt

 

[Anub]

wat the hell....
itachi's genjutsu affetcs the eye hahahahaha omg hahahahahaha
and wat after affecting the eye it gives u a eye disease like conjunctivitis hahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahaha
seriously man are u retarded or something
eye contact is a medium for casting genjutsu.. it doesnt affect the eye.

similarly jirayas toad song genjutsu was a sound based , sound was a medium for casting genjust it didnt affect ur ear..

Nagato communicated through the peins
so
nagato saw wat other pein saw,
nagato also heard wat all pein heard,
so if teh strongest sound based genjusu didnt affect nagato but only the bodies
how will the strongest eye based genjutsu affect the real pein.

so will u accept facts now or still go on with ur meaning less
genjutsu discussion.

Itachi while in susano is untouchable, well so is Deva pein with this shinra tensie,
absorption pein that absorbs all ninjutsu.
how long can itachi mantain susano.. can it really compare against the rinnegan...
think use ur brain , dont be a mindless zombie,
if they stand in a line with absorption in the first which they do how will he destroy all pain with ametarasu.
Do u think pein will just stand and say cut me with ur bday knife n seal me ..
would he just blast the shit out of itachi with sinra tensie or rip his soul..
PEIN WAS ITACHI"S boss,
he used to order itachi to go F**KING get toilet paper for him
dat should make things clear

Affects the eye/vision. Wow big deal. Thank you for that. I wasn't aware that my argument was so solid that all you could do was get personal.

Oh and btw it's "what" not "wat" and "genjutsu" not "genjusu" and there are a few more mistakes but i won't bother. Since we're being picky.
And no. The paths of Pain were linked only in vision, not in anything else.

But it's clear that you have your own personal logic. Oh btw Pain was itachi's boss, but Madara was Pain's boss and Madara said that if itachi knew about his plan he (madara) would be dead. So that should make things clearer.

 

[khaydz5]

pain's body cannot be caught in an eye based genjutsu coz rinnegan>sharingan.. the bodies of pain got caught on jiraiya's genjutsu just because jiraiya and the frogs uses SOUNDS to cast genjutsu on them.

overall, itachi will have a hard time beating pain.

and for the naruto vs pain fight. think if they go one on one. i mean 6vs1. naruto will die for sure! the only thing that made naruto win the fight is because 1st tendou pain is exhausted at the start of their fight and 2nd "talk no jutsu" is unfair.lol

 

[Stampy]

pain's body cannot be caught in an eye based genjutsu coz rinnegan>sharingan.. the bodies of pain got caught on jiraiya's genjutsu just because jiraiya and the frogs uses SOUNDS to cast genjutsu on them.

overall, itachi will have a hard time beating pain.

and for the naruto vs pain fight. think if they go one on one. i mean 6vs1. naruto will die for sure! the only thing that made naruto win the fight is because 1st tendou pain is exhausted at the start of their fight and 2nd "talk no jutsu" is unfair.lol

LoL to that last part of your post, made me lol xd. But the MS can't genjutsu Rinnegan cause Rinnegan > all is a fail. If rinnegan was able to see through tsukoyomi, or genjutsu's, I'm pretty sure that Tobi would not have given it to Nagato, furthermore, it would have been brought up at some point of the manga.

 

[Anub]

pain's body cannot be caught in an eye based genjutsu coz rinnegan>sharingan.. the bodies of pain got caught on jiraiya's genjutsu just because jiraiya and the frogs uses SOUNDS to cast genjutsu on them.

overall, itachi will have a hard time beating pain.

and for the naruto vs pain fight. think if they go one on one. i mean 6vs1. naruto will die for sure! the only thing that made naruto win the fight is because 1st tendou pain is exhausted at the start of their fight and 2nd "talk no jutsu" is unfair.lol

Hello there. First of all, show me in the manga where is says that rinnegan is immune to genjutsu. Also Stampy made a good point about Madara. And even though we are told that rinnegan is stronger than the sharingan, knowing how to use it is very important. It's useless to have a rinnegan if you're not so good with it. I'm not saying pain wasn't good with using his rinnegan, but look at Tobi. He's got sharingan and is Pain's boss. Also in a fight against Pain he would win.

What made naruto win the fight was pain's stupidity. Instead of going for the win he started toying with Hinata, knowing that it would make naruto angry. He wanted to show him pain, so instead his whole "plan" turned against him. That's why he lost. Not because any pain was exhausted.

 

[yondaimeminato]

itachi would win

 

[Stampy]

Hello there. First of all, show me in the manga where is says that rinnegan is immune to genjutsu. Also Stampy made a good point about Madara. And even though we are told that rinnegan is stronger than the sharingan, knowing how to use it is very important. It's useless to have a rinnegan if you're not so good with it. I'm not saying pain wasn't good with using his rinnegan, but look at Tobi. He's got sharingan and is Pain's boss. Also in a fight against Pain he would win.

What made naruto win the fight was pain's stupidity. Instead of going for the win he started toying with Hinata, knowing that it would make naruto angry. He wanted to show him pain, so instead his whole "plan" turned against him. That's why he lost. Not because any pain was exhausted.

Well you are right (in my opinion) through out the whole post until "not because pain was exhausted". Pain would have definately took the upper hand if shinra tensei was up from the beginning. Although it is questionable cause As soon as it popped back up Naruto had him countered badly already but still. It did gave Naruto time to adapt to the fight.