[Predictions] Naruto Manga Chapter 516 Discussion and 517 Predictions

[Nikkou Arashi]

Gaara's speech is just right!

Dunno if anyone noticed though, but I'm kinda stucked with this:
Sasori: I see the only ones left are Zetsu and my replacement Tobi...

Spoiler

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It's not that strange. It has been clearly stated in the manga that not everyone knew that Tobi was Madara. Kisame also thought Tobi was just a member till Tobi took down his mask. Sasori was probably one of the members who didn't knew that Tobi was Madara.

Hmmn, I guess I missed that. It just sounded to me though like Sasori made a human puppet out of Madara - the same thing as he did for himself. Probably Madara collaborated with Sasori about it - but then, Sasori must've not still been around during Madara's hiding period (whatever), think so?

Creeps! Just hit me now as I thought of it again. My confusion was just a bi-product of improper punction-'ing' and the fact that I forgot that Tobi replaced Sasori when he died. :/

There should've been a comma between replacement and Tobi. "and my replacement, Tobi" Of course, I'm not trying to make a correctional post here. It was my "unnecessary" question/insight that I needed correcting. If I have remembered that Tobi replaced Sasori's membership in the org then, I would've read it that way. xd

CHURI FOLKS!

 

[skgb75]

Re: Manga 516!

Is that what i think it is, someone look carefully at the Byakugan user, please tell me whats on his forehead?!

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its a nazi sign of course lol.......they were some controversy bout that b4 and in-fact u may have noticed they changed it in the English anime

 

[Omningan]

Spoiler

Lol i guess tchuchikage is senile in his old age... But yes, it would seem that kishi overlooks some points in order to become easier to make the plot work.

Black zetsu and white zetsu... Kabuto referred to them in the last chapter as "the black and white zetsu" giving the impression that it's actually only one... Zetsu was created by madara...white part seems to have come from harashisama... and the black part? and by the way, how can madara create life? I mean, only the 1st could and even so it was vegetable life...simpler if compared to a "ninja" (or whatever zetsu is...). Hum...so many questions...lol

As for the hyuga seal, it disapears uppon death sealing the byakugan...that's a fact. it's his objective. It's a physical thing in their bodies and it seals the abilities in the corpse. Since edotensei summons the soul (and not he original corpse) and since he had the seal at the moment of death, since it appears in his forhead maybe it can still be activated again. However don't forget that a technique has to be used so that the sacrificial bodies used have the same appearance as they had in life. Orochimaru explains it. Otherwise they would look like corpses...lol So maybe that seal isn't a seal. It can be there just because the tech copies the look he had when he died.

cumps

yeah good point.
maybe we are to understand that there is an original black zetsu and an original white zetsu. and that they are 2 sides of the same "entity".
it seems like maybe the white one is the only one worth cloning? or maybe he is the only one that can be cloned? hell i just dont know.
i cant wait for the "zetsu bomb" to drop. sooner or later the truth will come out, about who he is and where he came from.
maybe madara created him with izangi or something twisted like that.
he mentioned to konan that the so6p used izangi to CREATE. i spose zetsu might have been a shot at creation using izangi. idk.

jabz...i dont know where to start man.
most of what youve asked of me, ive already explained in this thread and in the previous one. i liked your post. many things to discuss.
i think you should try to look at things more objectively, though.
look for the simplest, most reasonable answer.
like regarding the 3rd and edo tensei.
and kabuto's standing in the narutoverse.
of course its all just opinion in the end...

however, we are trying to correctly interpret kishimotos naruto world.
surely there is a correct interpretation that closely resembles kishi's intent with his creation. we can be FAR off, or we can be really CLOSE.
i try to get as close as possible, so that i can get the fullest enjoyment from his creation. misinterpreting parts of the story will lead you away from his meanings and stop you from being able to understand what he is trying to convey.

and on a side note. i really miss silenceofthelambs...
hes posted very little in this thread... 2x i think?
i wonder if i bummed him out?

 

[Omningan]

Re: Manga 516!

its a nazi sign of course lol.......they were some controversy bout that b4 and in-fact u may have noticed they changed it in the English anime

omg it is not a swastika!!
this is a swastika!

Spoiler

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the seal on his forehead is that of the caged bird!
neji explains it all in the chuunin exam.
up close you can see that the seal has little bird claws at the end of each of the 4 lines...

Spoiler

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you can plainly see that they are different in a few ways!
the swastika is generally tilted and has no feet at the ends.

does it imply a similar meaning?
yes probably.
the swastika was used as a symbol for "oppression" and "segregation" by the nazis.
although it did not originate with them, like others have said before this post.
it meant something completely different before it was twisted in meaning by hitler and nazi germany. a time of great shame for us humans. the real world, you remember that, right?

anyways...
this meaning can be interpreted in the same way as the byakugan family seal.
neji is oppressed by his family, and he is set apart from them almost as a lesser being.
simply because he is part of the "branch" family. yet hinata has shown his nothing but respect and love as a family member. she probably even looks up to him as a big brother.

and im sure with kishi's intelligence level, he meant for the implication of meaning to be there, yet not for morons to be like "ITS THE NAZI SYMBOL! OMG"
lets all grow up and look a little deeper into meaning before we show how stupid we are.
get real people and stop wasting this thread with your garbage!!
:flaw:
me too
:flaw:

 

[Team 7]

Anyone who knows where the Mizukage is?
She isn't apparently staying with the Kages, or did i miss something?

 

[The Peaceful Warrior]

thx omni for your post about the sign on neji's farther, youre correct that it two different signs, the nazi stole the sign and changed it

I like your idea of madara creating zetsu with his izanagi, and I very possible for zetsu being a creation of izanagi, but you say that zetsu was madara trying to create something however what if madara wanted to create zetsu, as he said himself the one who does something to help himself later is the real winner, so what if madara created zetsu just for the reason to have an army, since he himself stated that he wanted to start the 4th ninja war, that is my view on zetsu IF he is a creation of madara, which we know nothing of yet

on a related note, if zetsu white half is made of dna of the first, then maybe but only maybe the black half of zetsu is made from madara's dna, and an experiment of madara to see if he were able to unite the two types of dna before doing it on himself, to make sure that he wouldn't suffer from it, which i think could be an option since madara is too smart for doing anything risky on himself.

 

[Alkad]

thx omni for your post about the sign on neji's farther, youre correct that it two different signs, the nazi stole the sign and changed it

I like your idea of madara creating zetsu with his izanagi, and I very possible for zetsu being a creation of izanagi, but you say that zetsu was madara trying to create something however what if madara wanted to create zetsu, as he said himself the one who does something to help himself later is the real winner, so what if madara created zetsu just for the reason to have an army, since he himself stated that he wanted to start the 4th ninja war, that is my view on zetsu IF he is a creation of madara, which we know nothing of yet

on a related note, if zetsu white half is made of dna of the first, then maybe but only maybe the black half of zetsu is made from madara's dna, and an experiment of madara to see if he were able to unite the two types of dna before doing it on himself, to make sure that he wouldn't suffer from it, which i think could be an option since madara is too smart for doing anything risky on himself.

I might need some clarifications about zetsu & hashirama. Why would zetsu have anything to do with the first hokage, as suggested in the manga? What I saw was a clone of hashirama suspended somewhere near an army of zetsu clones.

Zetsu has the ability to absorb anyone's genetic code and turn into those people. He may be able to partially transform into something. I think that hashirama's clone was there as a mere template for the white zetsu to copy. They're different people, from different ages.

..Unless madara created zetsu for the express purpose of turning him into the first hokage, but that's limited thinking on madara's part. Hashirama was not powerful enough to make a decent uniform army. That's what senju is all about: diversity.

I still don't accept the idea of zetsu being a creation of izanagi. It *clicks*, but it's also an overkill unless you give thorough illustrations and make it a main point in the manga. There are better things to think about.. such as the Uzumaki clan's legacy in naruto (if any). Too bad we won't see more of minato in the main plot.

 

[Ahava Shinobi]

I have been reading the forums for a while now, but this is my first post.

I haven't seen anyone mention this yet, and I was wondering what you guys think: Kabuto was one of Sasori's subordinates. Although Kabuto betrayed him, Sasori died before finding out that Kabuto and Orochimaru were going to kill him. Yet when Sasori is brought back by Edo Tensei, he says "Akatsuki must have gone to hell in a hand basket to be taking orders from such a ragged fool." I'm wondering why Sasori is acting so coldly towards Kabuto? Is it possible that since Kabuto was one of his spies, then it wasn't known by the other members that Kabuto was one of his subordinates (and so Sasori is trying to keep that fact hidden)?

I think Kabuto is a pretty sick character. He's been one of my favorites from the beginning, for being clever, using medical justsu, mysterious, and he does a lot of random acts of 'kindness.' Sometimes I feel like he is a bit like Snape.

 

[brittse23]

Re: Manga 516!

that is the seal the head family puts on the branch family to seal there Byakugan when they die

 

[ionicaion100]

all i want to know is when will sasuke make appeareance

 

[Floydical]

Spoiler

im really glad you decided to join. thanks for reading my posts and joining so you could reply. i look forward to your input.

youre right. i sort of was forgetting that the kages are aware that the akatsuki forces number in the 100,000.
strange that they havent wondered to think HOW IN THE HELL AKATSUKI HAS 100,000 NINJAS??
where would that many ninjas even come from? aren't they concerned that there is some psycho, super jutsu involved in such a conundrum?
do they realize that the 100k are zetsu clones? and how well is that information spread throughout the force? does every last ninja in that army know they are up against 100,000? or only the kages and generals maybe?

and im wondering if they know ALL ALL about the edo tensei. i want to say they dont, but thats sort of strange...
tsuchikage fought the rezzed deidara... but on this page he says

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"whats with that bird and that "deidara?"
as if he knows its not deidara, but he doesnt know that it is edo tensei.
on the next page kabuto replies

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"lets say hes more or less the real thing"
here she asks "how can you still be alive?"

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as if confused as to how he could be dead, but be in front of them.
akatsuchi is like "you did survive, yay!" LOLZ IDIOT!
and then tsuchikage seems to know deidara well enough to know that this isnt the real/original deidara.
tsuchikage ends with
"maybe its looks like hes been revived by orochimaru (good guess, not too far off), or some kind of clay reanimation (WAY OFF, showing he doesnt actually know what deidara is about), thats not the real deidara"
it ends here.
im wondering if he didnt understand the ramifications of their encounter with deidara. I am thinking the stone village isnt versed up on edo tensei. and given the old man's age, maybe he forgot to mention it to the other kages when he got back. they certainly seem to be in a hurry. surely tsunade would have been well aware had she been informed. it seems to me like the konoha peeps know edo tensei well. which leads me to think that if they had been informed, they would be preparing quite a bit differently....
weird, how something so important could be overlooked...
i blame that idiot old man, tsuchikage. communication is key.
"oh btw, we fought an undead deidara and kabuto showed up and snatched yamato." ... "oh really? orochimaru's subordinate is using edo tensei? and he is in akatsuki? maybe we should do something about that?" LOL come on!

on a totally unrelated note... look at this

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"so he wasnt deidara."
tsuchikage hit kabuto and knew he wasnt madara.
as if he thought kabuto MIGHT be madara, and then felt satisfied that he wasnt infact madara after striking him... interesting to me.

and finally, the ultimate plot hole!! DUH DUH DUH!!

when raikage and killerbee kill kisame they leave his body behind.
in this chapter we see zestu black AND white seperated, picking up kisames body (which isnt kisame infact, he is in the samehada).
the plot hole here, is that we know that a ninjas body is a treasure trove of secrets...
my question:
why in the flaming hells would a RAIKAGE and a JINCHUURIKI walk away from a corpse of an akatsuki member like kisame without taking the body with them?? are they retarded?!?
imagine if you will what might have happened if they had taken that body with them to discover that it wasnt kisame at all, but that it was a zetsu clone and that they had an enemy capable of exactly copying someone right down to the chakra... THAT MIGHT BE WORTH KNOWING!! ARGH!
jiraiya snatched up a pain body, he knew at least to pay attention to that sort of thing. i guess raikage and killer bee were too busy circle-jerking each other off about their kill that they forgot to act like real ninjas. apparently darui and that other sensor turd decided not to be intelligent either...
anyways, i see that as a sort of plot hole...

on another unrelated note, i found something totally relevant to this current manga...

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he explains later that the seal is suppose to disappear after death. so the fact that kabutos summoned version has the seal makes me think. really hard. i fully expect for itachi and nagato to have their dou jutsus.

and on another entirely unrelated note, i wonder if asuma knows hes a daddy?O.O

also, about zetsu

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the white one asks the black one if he recorded the fight.
this shows us a couple things.
1. the black one is probably the only one capable of recording fights.
2. the white one doesnt know everything the black one knows.

i am under the impression that the black zetsu is the "original" zetsu, and that every single white zetsu is simply a clone of the black one.
and they dont function like a normal bunshin. i would assume this is all related to the demon statue and hashiramas dna and the creation of the white zetsu 100k army... which frankly is a mind bomb. i want more explanation from kishi as this war progresses.

sorry for the extra long post. i thought i covered some good topics though...

I see what you mean about Kisame but I in no way think that that is a plot hole. In fact, it was a source of more information for us as the audience. Remember that once Zetsu returned to the scene of battle, he freely released the justsu that made himself look like Kisame. That means he could have kept the jutsu going indefinitely. Since it was basically a perfect clone of Kisame, the alliance would have never learned anything about Zetsu's ability from the body. Like I said, him being left there actually taught us more.

When it comes to why they didn't take it as compared to other bodies taken, you have to keep in mind the context of who's bodies they take. Remember that their goal, first and foremost, was to take an Akatsuki alive at all costs. When that proves impossible, it would interest them to take the body if certain things could be learned from it. In the case of Pain, Jiraya knew that the body with all its piercings and everything would be of great use to the Leaf; and of course it was. In the case of Kakuzu, the body was examined and the major knowledge gained was in regard to what Naruto's Rasen-Shiriken truly does to the victim. No other info was ever established from the corpse other than that. In the case of Kisame, he was dead (or so they thought) and they realized that they couldn't probe his mind and no real knowledge could be established from it. Again, I really don't find that a plot-hole.

Finally, did you really forget? Of course Asuma knew he was going to be a dad! We learned he entrusted a lot to Shikamaru, which included the very important task of being his child's role model and instructor. The whole stuff about the 'King' being the children of the Leaf and not the Hokage...that was mainly referring to his child to be.

and on a side note. i really miss silenceofthelambs...
hes posted very little in this thread... 2x i think?
i wonder if i bummed him out?

Eh don't take it personally. It seems he only likes posting facts to help people get basic ideas straight in their minds or to respond to people who responded to his posts. He doesn't really post a lot of theories/ opinions.

 

[Abihail]

it wasen't the best speach garra ever made but it was one of my top ten speaches from Naruto=) WTH

 

[4bdN]

remember that Yamato was an Orochimaru experiment , maybe Kabuto knows about some kind of failsafe that Oro installed in him ( Yamato ) or something like that . just a thought

 

[The Peaceful Warrior]

Spoiler

I might need some clarifications about zetsu & hashirama. Why would zetsu have anything to do with the first hokage, as suggested in the manga? What I saw was a clone of hashirama suspended somewhere near an army of zetsu clones.

Zetsu has the ability to absorb anyone's genetic code and turn into those people. He may be able to partially transform into something. I think that hashirama's clone was there as a mere template for the white zetsu to copy. They're different people, from different ages.

..Unless madara created zetsu for the express purpose of turning him into the first hokage, but that's limited thinking on madara's part. Hashirama was not powerful enough to make a decent uniform army. That's what senju is all about: diversity.

I still don't accept the idea of zetsu being a creation of izanagi. It *clicks*, but it's also an overkill unless you give thorough illustrations and make it a main point in the manga. There are better things to think about.. such as the Uzumaki clan's legacy in naruto (if any). Too bad we won't see more of minato in the main plot.[/QUOTE

first lets make this clear of most of this is just theory not facts
ill this short sence my browser F***ed and i had to write it again, and its 1:30 am where I live

now the Zetsu-Hashirama thing
what i meant, is that Zetsu migth be made from the DNA of Hashirama Madara collected during thier figth, since Madara had acces to the DNA he could have made Zetsu from it, just like he did with the clones

now the thing about Hashirama not being powerful enough??
Hashirama is the only know person in the narutoverse to control all bijui, not even Madara can do that, and he was also considered one of the strongest shinobi of all time, so by having 100,000O.O Hashirama clones you could probaly defeat any army,
but I get you're meaning about Zetsu, that his biggest strenght lies in his ability to copy any ninja he have made contact to, but the question is are the "copy" as strong as the original, since in the Gaara arc in the start of shippuden, team Gai was able to defeat their own copys, due to the fact that Zetsu can only copy the level they were at when he had contact with them

the izanagi thing is just a theory that omnigan stated that what if, Zetsu was a creation of Madara using izanagi, maybe it was his time using it, maybe he did on purpose for the reason to be able to make and Zetsu army, since it was his plan from the start to make the five kages go against him, else he wouldn't have appered before them at the summit

all of this is just my opinion on some theorys, you dont have to agree with me

 

[Cooldragon]

Re: Manga 516!

omg it is not a swastika!!

Look very closely at it on the manga for a second time. You'll see what the others mean, even though it's not tilted. It looks like on, at least.:flaw:

 

[Desert Punk Mizuno]

Re: Manga 516!

Look very closely at it on the manga for a second time. You'll see what the others mean, even though it's not tilted. It looks like one.:flaw:

i seen that neji and naruto fight and it looked like one then!!!!! and it still does now!!!! i agree

 

[Omningan]

i think im done here.

 

[The Peaceful Warrior]

i think im done here.

what do you mean?

 

[Alkad]

Re: Manga 516!

i seen that neji and naruto fight and it looked like one then!!!!! and it still does now!!!! i agree

Yep,

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(with 4 additional hooks). but many people are making a fuss about it. The nazi stole that ancient symbol. we're just being paranoid about it, so they had to change it into a cross in the anime.

To those that don't know this, the swastika comes in many forms. If it weren't a swastika, it would have remained the same in the anime.

More on that:

Spoiler

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If all these are swastikas, why wouldn't the "caged bird" be one?
The swastika is a shape, and only then a symbol in many different cultures

 

[Omningan]

well what i mean is, ive been filled with the desire to puke by these mindless fools.
and that i will now be ignoring any posts from nazis, idiots, morons, retards, and anyone else who shows that they have less than half a brain.

i will most likely still read everyones posts here because I like some of the input, but i will no longer try to help people understand. if i see someone make a post about something in naruto and they are completely misunderstanding it. i am NOT going to try and help them.

i will most likely continue to make my own posts about things i find interesting, however. since to not do that, would be to let them get the better of me. and i wont allow them to ruin my desire to post on here and interact with some of the normal people on here. naruto is probably my favorite story i've heard in my life, and i'm really into it. this is a sort of outlet for that. and having to sift through these posts by clowns is troublesome and makes me want to reach out to help them. but its clear that some people only see what they want, regardless of the truth shown them. surely i already knew this, but sometimes it still takes me by surprise.

in closing, i think i've learned another valuable lesson here today.

floydical, it was just something that stood out to me.
had they taken the body, things could have turned out differently.
and my understanding of the naruto ninja world tells me that they should have.
thats all. i love that scene and what we learned, but it felt a little wrong to me.

death eagle, im glad you joined man. if you were the only one here who enjoyed my posts it would still mean something to me. and i love your idea about zetsu and madara. he could have created zetsu from the hashirama cells using izangi. thats brilliant. his own twisted/dark version of the 1st hokage. there only to do his bidding. who knows?

ahava shinobi, i like your interpretation about sasori and kabuto.
i had partly forgotten about their relationship since it was never made into a big deal. i wonder if sasori recognizes kabuto? i mean surely he does... and maybe thats why hes so upset like you said. "..that ragged fool" insinuating that he thinks of kabuto the way jabz does. "youre a nobody compared to us, why are you running the show?" kind of feeling. i picked up on that quote too, but didnt think about it in regards to their history. nicely done.

glad to see some new faces. welcome to the base!