First of all, i haven't even checked to see if i actually said that. That's because this isn't to continue that nasty episode with @Avani. This is just to say that even if Avani wasnt strawmanning me as per habit, its not all that bad.
See, i wouldnt blame most people if they read that post that references Zabuza / Itachi as my opinion and thought less of me. Why? Well, if a kid is raised racist, sent to racist school and groomed into racist society without ever being given the chance to explore and see that all races are people, can you blame them for being racist? Their opinion/views is definitely wrong (and i mean that objectively, we can debate this), but are they themselves guilty or a victim of a bad system?
In the same way, people are somewhat 'raised' to be prejudiced against certain views and statements, such that a mere report of someone holding certain views sets the world against that person. Now such prejudice and persecution is definitely wrong, but the people behind it are not always guilty. This is because guit is about the responsibility one has and one cannot be held accountable for something beyond their reasonable control, such as their upbringing and opportunities to explore. Now if they get and reject said opportunity, then that's on their own heads.
So i figure to figuratuvely give everyone the chance to explore for themselves.
Where to begin? Well, i understand Zabuza to be quite strong, as someone like Kakashi lost to him in a matter of moments despite Kakashi knowing almost everything about Zabuza while Zabuza knew almost nothing about Kakashi. And we know knowledge matters because characters are fundamentally mortal (can be killed with kunai + strategy) and we have many examples featuring Obito, Orochimaru, Kakuzu and more where the character with knowledge jumped many levels to beat someone without knowledge. Zabuza also being pinned as the biggest threat in a group of already kage level threats, paeticularly against a troupe of trained shinobi with - again - nearly full knowledge on him also puts him at a high level.
As for Itachi? Well, his failure to deal with an Obito, despite being an information master himself, who almost everyone he ever fought managed to hurt him is bad for him. And of course, that only matters if 'almost everyone' in question is weaker than Zabuza. Minato scales to the likes of Kakashi whom Zabuza already outclassed. Fu and Torune are implied to not be the strongest ever seeing as how Kakashi himself was a former Anbu and is shown as better than Anbu captain Tenzo. Well, that's shaky, but that Fu and Torune had no knowledge still counts. Konan definitely used very powerful abilities, but the ones she genuinely needed are pretty basic. So if all these guys, lacking knowledge, were able to hurt and even kill Obito, for Itachi to fail to even touch him is poor.
Otherwise, im not really sure what to say because I'm just going off of the impression that Zabuza is somehow supposed to be super weak and Itachi super strong, but its not really my view. So I'll just leave it open here for questions and other points to be raised by everyone else. We'll see then where the discussion takes us
Maybe that's a little . . . little, so let me leave some snippets:
1. These are opinions
They can change. And even the most factual things aren't set in stone. Like, someone could argue that Itachi never used Fire Ball Technique but rather used genjutsu on characters to make them move or hide his real position or whatever. And that's with something pretty solid. So in a story where almost nothing is set in stone, no opinion is automatically bad. Again, i didn't even check the basis of this thread (that i said Zabuza / Itachi in some other thread) but i just wanna deal with this idea of some opinions being ridiculous. I mean, that we have these discussions is proof of that. That the story is really just a bunch of snapshots attempting to cover an entire world with long history . . . and those snapshots are less than the number of seconds one would use in a day to read all of them . . .
2. No opinion is baseless, factually
People are fundamentally logical. They cannot believe something without backup for it. Its literally impossible. So even if someone has a 'wrong' opinion, there can be something correct behind it or about it. All opinions have some value in being heard or evaluated.
Lets get to it, then. Why exactly should Itachi be so much stronger than Zabuza that they cant be compared?
See, i wouldnt blame most people if they read that post that references Zabuza / Itachi as my opinion and thought less of me. Why? Well, if a kid is raised racist, sent to racist school and groomed into racist society without ever being given the chance to explore and see that all races are people, can you blame them for being racist? Their opinion/views is definitely wrong (and i mean that objectively, we can debate this), but are they themselves guilty or a victim of a bad system?
In the same way, people are somewhat 'raised' to be prejudiced against certain views and statements, such that a mere report of someone holding certain views sets the world against that person. Now such prejudice and persecution is definitely wrong, but the people behind it are not always guilty. This is because guit is about the responsibility one has and one cannot be held accountable for something beyond their reasonable control, such as their upbringing and opportunities to explore. Now if they get and reject said opportunity, then that's on their own heads.
So i figure to figuratuvely give everyone the chance to explore for themselves.
I mean, considering the age we all live in, where famous historical prejudice is so well known and access to information . . . should prejudice really be thing among us?
Especially considering that we who are on this site are likely among the most well informed people on the planet - internet + reading comprehension + intellectual interactive community?
Especially considering the particular topics we discuss here? Im pretty sure anyone who is into our particular interests has enough life experience to know better than ridiculing and shunning 'fringe' opinions. Now when such actually discusses these topics to the extent that we do? Come on. It would be the saddest tragedy if the manga reading community, of all communities, were to exhibit the same stereotyping and prejudice and prosecuting behaviour of normal society!
We owe it to . . . everything, really . . . to be better than that. Nonetheless, i will give leeway for natural prejudices and take the time to delve into one of these topics. But i hope i never have to do such again.
Especially considering that we who are on this site are likely among the most well informed people on the planet - internet + reading comprehension + intellectual interactive community?
Especially considering the particular topics we discuss here? Im pretty sure anyone who is into our particular interests has enough life experience to know better than ridiculing and shunning 'fringe' opinions. Now when such actually discusses these topics to the extent that we do? Come on. It would be the saddest tragedy if the manga reading community, of all communities, were to exhibit the same stereotyping and prejudice and prosecuting behaviour of normal society!
We owe it to . . . everything, really . . . to be better than that. Nonetheless, i will give leeway for natural prejudices and take the time to delve into one of these topics. But i hope i never have to do such again.
Where to begin? Well, i understand Zabuza to be quite strong, as someone like Kakashi lost to him in a matter of moments despite Kakashi knowing almost everything about Zabuza while Zabuza knew almost nothing about Kakashi. And we know knowledge matters because characters are fundamentally mortal (can be killed with kunai + strategy) and we have many examples featuring Obito, Orochimaru, Kakuzu and more where the character with knowledge jumped many levels to beat someone without knowledge. Zabuza also being pinned as the biggest threat in a group of already kage level threats, paeticularly against a troupe of trained shinobi with - again - nearly full knowledge on him also puts him at a high level.
As for Itachi? Well, his failure to deal with an Obito, despite being an information master himself, who almost everyone he ever fought managed to hurt him is bad for him. And of course, that only matters if 'almost everyone' in question is weaker than Zabuza. Minato scales to the likes of Kakashi whom Zabuza already outclassed. Fu and Torune are implied to not be the strongest ever seeing as how Kakashi himself was a former Anbu and is shown as better than Anbu captain Tenzo. Well, that's shaky, but that Fu and Torune had no knowledge still counts. Konan definitely used very powerful abilities, but the ones she genuinely needed are pretty basic. So if all these guys, lacking knowledge, were able to hurt and even kill Obito, for Itachi to fail to even touch him is poor.
Otherwise, im not really sure what to say because I'm just going off of the impression that Zabuza is somehow supposed to be super weak and Itachi super strong, but its not really my view. So I'll just leave it open here for questions and other points to be raised by everyone else. We'll see then where the discussion takes us
Maybe that's a little . . . little, so let me leave some snippets:
1. These are opinions
They can change. And even the most factual things aren't set in stone. Like, someone could argue that Itachi never used Fire Ball Technique but rather used genjutsu on characters to make them move or hide his real position or whatever. And that's with something pretty solid. So in a story where almost nothing is set in stone, no opinion is automatically bad. Again, i didn't even check the basis of this thread (that i said Zabuza / Itachi in some other thread) but i just wanna deal with this idea of some opinions being ridiculous. I mean, that we have these discussions is proof of that. That the story is really just a bunch of snapshots attempting to cover an entire world with long history . . . and those snapshots are less than the number of seconds one would use in a day to read all of them . . .
2. No opinion is baseless, factually
People are fundamentally logical. They cannot believe something without backup for it. Its literally impossible. So even if someone has a 'wrong' opinion, there can be something correct behind it or about it. All opinions have some value in being heard or evaluated.
Lets get to it, then. Why exactly should Itachi be so much stronger than Zabuza that they cant be compared?