[Game] SK-Tower Of God! The Great War!!! #28

[SoulKiller]

Isn't that the whole point of having an investigation ability? If I was so confident that Ratchet was town, why did I scan him after Kyte's flip?

I don't take investigation abilities into account when judging a player based on pure reads of the game.

As for the scan thing, it was because you were a serial killer and because ratchet is a good player overall so better be safe than sorry xD

 

[Kyte_]

Yes? I correctly identified three out of the four wolves in four day phases. What did you do other than embarrass yourself and choke?

jk jk

But you did choke.

Isn't that the whole point of having an investigation ability? If I was so confident that Ratchet was town, why did I scan him after Kyte's flip?

I don't understand, you should know that your so-called services are completely irrelevant since you're anti-town. And for you to deliberately act in town's favor, regardless, is even a bigger flaw from a spectator's point of view.

You'd argue gaining town credit is necessary for your stay, but it had been inconsequential after Poison's flip.


However, by your logic, you've done a great job, yes.

 

[Alice in Noodleland]

@SoulKiller I have a question. You can answer it or if you can't I can understand.
I just want to put this theory on my mind at rest.

Did you RNG the roles or you handpicked the players?

Just to be clear.. I have no problems in whatsoever method you used. I just need to know.

Blame the HSP test

 

[Kyte_]

Tiger would be credited for the win, as she should, but her play was as conventional as it could be, and thanks to the settings where she had decided to float to the surface, she was almost handed over victory on a silver plate.

Toujo's play was more enjoyable to dissect, and Bee was really great at complimenting him. Overall, I don't feel too bad for losing.

 

[Kyte_]

Thanks for hosting @SoulKiller

 

[-PK-]

>I wanna use my abilities
>Also PK I don't wanna use my abilities.

Lol I don't get how you still don't get why I held off my vote until the end.

It was unfortunate I fell asleep but my plan was foolproof.

 

[Alice in Noodleland]

Congratulations to the Mafia Team. BEE, Toujo, Tigerr and Poison

Congratulations Town. You all did good. Treat yourself with chocolates.

@Michelle
Question if you didn't died N1.. Who you gonna tunnel DP2?

 

[AL_sama]

do I need to thank again??

btw why did you lie sk??

 

[Alice in Noodleland]

Congratulations to my fellow Third Party @XTMF . SK said you targeted me.

 

[Tigerrr in the woods]

Would you have done it had Ratchet not told you to?

Honestly probably not. I conciously poked you for some details on why you scum me but i realized afterwards it backfired on my look XD since Toujo suggested your kill.
So I also targeted Aether the same night to put some shade on Osie. PK was the one who picked up on this strategy and could really bring it in the votes, so I guess wolf team really got lucky when he fell aslesp. @-PK- MVP hehe

@Tigerrr in the woods really well played and well deserved xD

Humble thanks.

 

[Alice in Noodleland]

do I need to thank again??

btw why did you lie sk??

Next time Present yourself more Townier if you rand Town again.

 

[Alice in Noodleland]

so I guess wolf team really got lucky when he fell aslesp. @-PK- MVP hehe

lol. You shouldn't have mentioned that. He really felt so bad and angry next DP when he woke up.

I don't know what could happen if he voted you.? You will be lynch? If yes, then Mafia got the luck that night.

 

[Premfection]

lol. You shouldn't have mentioned that. He really felt so bad and angry next DP when he woke up.

I don't know what could happen if he voted you.? You will be lynch? If yes, then Mafia got the luck that night.

hi

 

[Toujo]

Thanks for the game @SoulKiller - I liked the setup, and some of the roles were crazy good. Liked the HP system too and how it was implemented.

I must give a lot of props to @Tigerrr in the woods - to win from the position she found herself in is impressive. You can blame Town, for sure, for sloppy play, ruled by paranoia, but all the same one must give credit where it is due. This is her first scum game too. That's pretty incredible all told. Truly a fitting slot for the Princess.

On a personal level, I felt like I played a pretty good game all told. I'm usually fairly critical of my play, and sure, it wasn't perfect, but given that this was the first time I was playing with a number of players, I think I put out a really strong performance. I do hope I'm town next game, as I felt like a lot of the arguments made against me was something I would do as either alignment. This is best evidenced by the fact that the players most familiar with me either had me at Null or Town. I was particularly happy with my interactions - Town really tried to glean scum from them, but I felt like I'd done an excellent job at masking it, and they never seemed to catch on that it was a fools errand. I had a plan to use the Princess' Day Kill ability to kill Hou, and get a free lynch on AL, in a nasty 2 for 1 swap up, but I'm obviously glad that didn't go through (Soul wouldn't accept it, as the Princess needed to be the one to send it). I also was going to use my Gladiator ability to bus Beeboy, which probably would have let me get to the endgame plain sailing.

The Poison gambit worked like a dream. It was risky, to be sure, but it gave us essentially two free mislynches, including Baam of all people. Losing Beeboy was a huge blow, and I really thought that was probably the game. Could have done a better job in Day 4 I suppose, but I mostly in anti-spew mode.

@XTMF You bragged at the start of the game how, typically, you tend to match up well against me. Given this, I'm taking this as my win in our H2H. That being said, I think you played well (I know I've been over this). I do think you were overly aggressive towards the Mafia though, Day 4 you really ought to have backed away from me, because with Beeboy dead you ran the risk of either escalating the Mafia going after you, or you ending up needing to go through like 10 townies with the Mafia eliminated. Part of what makes Serial so hard is that you need to manage the game, which is why the investigation was a really good idea from Soul-chan. With the Mafia kind of reeling, and you knowing I'm scum, you could have pushed away from Town for a day phase or two and then revisited it. Of course, I don't think this would change much. I had the Princess' superkill aimed at you basically all game long (with the sole exception of when i wondered about using it for the aforementioned 2 for 1, but that honestly was very spontaneous). So if I were alive and you pushed for Tigerr, and she was about to be lynched, I'd have had her use it on you, and I told her to use it on you before I was lynched off. However, you had no way of knowing this. Your scumhunting was definitely strong though, like I said you played a good game. Better than the vast majority of the town honestly.

All in all, very proud of this win. I liked scumming with my team, it was a pity Poison was sacrificed so early, and Bee got sick (hope you're feeling better btw), but to win given what we overcame was very impressive, and while I do feel I deserve my fair share of credit for that, namely in the advice and such I gave Tigerr, this win primarily belongs to her. I'm very, very interested to see how her play evolves from here, because something tells me she's going to be under more scrutiny from here on out. That's how the game goes though, I can't praise her ability to pull this out enough honestly.

Last note - this game served as a very interesting look at the exciting psychological part of the game. I said in the Death Chat that Tigerr needed town to fall into paranoia - and they did. They started second guessing themselves, they choked, and didn't process what information they had with clarity. Add in players not using or misusing their abilities and you had a deserved town loss honestly, especially given they were fortunate to get into the position they were in in the first place (Scum lynched Day 1, Beeboy dying due to not voting, and Mafia killing the Serial, were all big breaks for the Town).

 

[Alice in Noodleland]

@Toujo GG Toujou. I will bestow you the Badge.. IF still Alive till DP3.. Surely Scum.
This badge is very rare. I think only SK have it and Kyte. Elmage And Michelle is getting there too.

But kidding aside . I'm amazed by your play. I was sold out with Poison Gambit. Thank you for joining us and hopefully you could join us again. We're pretty harmless here.

 

[Toujo]

Congratulations to my fellow Third Party @XTMF . SK said you targeted me.

I wanted to point out, I disagree that Serial (X) is third party. I've always felt it should be considered a seperate scum faction. It can only win with 3rd parties and itself. Unlike 3rd parties, who can win with scum, town, and other 3rd parties.

 

[Alice in Noodleland]

I wanted to point out, I disagree that Serial (X) is third party. I've always felt it should be considered a seperate scum faction. It can only win with 3rd parties and itself. Unlike 3rd parties, who can win with scum, town, and other 3rd parties.

Well I always considered them third party for the sake of easier grouping. Also Mafia Wiki. XD

 

[Aether9]

Thanks for the game

 

[Ansatsuken]

@Ansatsuken

I had won you the game if you had listened to me but nah let's lynch PK

Listen to what? You were not giving any opinion that worth to look at but only defending yourself. Where's your read on Tigerrr?

 

[osieorb18]

I wrote and deleted versions of this post at least about 6 times this game, possibly twice that much. I wanted to keep it out of the game. I probably should have replaced out immediately when my interactions with the host started wearing away at how much I cared about the sanctity of the game. But I felt that it was better to just take a breath and come back. That I should just give the game and SK a chance for things to be fun again. That feeling didn't last, and it's unfortunate that was the case. That said, I'm going to talk about this game from my perspective in this post and then not post further in this thread in post-game about my experience. I don't want to clog up the post-game with discussion of this post, but I'm open to discussion via Discord DMs at osieorb18#0126.

I could probably write 4000 words about the setup, but I'm not going to talk through the setup here or in the AB discord at this time.

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So this was my experience this game:

Day 2, I'm thrust into the game 90 minutes before EoD. I try to catch up as much as I can and form some kind of reads. I know I'm an investigative role. My role as written was some form of tracker or follower, so if I have a strong read on someone, I could check it and possibly catch them doing something fishy.

Start of Day 3 rolls around and I misread Ansa as doing the kill. I thought Yasartcha and Cha were the same character. I got very frustrated as I'm now a tracker with a red check, who as far as I tell, can't use that information to influence their reads as it would count as hinting their role. I haven't played many no-claiming games on forums and the main other two that come to mind (Kingdom, Monopoly) I was vanilla town. Similar applies to flavour-based information.

I say as much to SK in DM. I express my frustration politely and non-combatively. His response is to escalate the situation into an argument. He tells me that claiming games are lower skill. He mod-confirms Ansa as town while emphasizing to me that I need to read the write-ups closer.

So now my role instead of being as written, is a tracker + alignment cop + follower + flavour cop of sorts. And as far as I can tell, I still can't use this information to affect my play.

It absolutely felt like SK was someone who had a negative experience in a game with claiming and then took it as a point of pride that his games didn't have claiming as if all games with claiming followed the same formula. Like the whole discussion, through no intention or action of my own, was an ego-measuring contest, because that was the point of the no claiming, no hinting rule.

Most of that conversation amounted to me asking "Could I have a more specific definition of what counts as hinting my role? If I get information from my role, particularly an alignment check, it significantly affects my behaviour unless I go out of my way to ignore that information." and SoulKiller responding with some vitriolic version of "I can't explain this further. You just aren't used to games that require skill."

At this point, my impression of SoulKiller was already not great. The previous game, Kingdom, included him flaming another player into subbing out. This game included him responding rudely to one of the players who wasn't used to this game style with the excuse that "It's all okay because I'm throwing you some pieces of information." Not hinting me towards the information. Not saying something like "I think you have this wrong, and you should reread the write-ups closer." No. Telling me that Ansa is town and explicitly that "The write-ups have all of the information," while being extremely combative.

So I started from scratch. I took the piece of information that Ansa was Town Baylord Paul and ran with it. I scoured through the write-ups and wrote up a list of the named characters to try to help me sort out what the teams might look like and what information was present from the writeups. I started maintaining a readslist which I posted regularly.

And then I got publicly prodded. Publicly prodded when I had more posts in the first 22 hours of the day phase than was required for the entire day phase.

Then I asked about HQ Soldier, since I wasn't sure. Specifically, I asked:

Do we know that every character in the writeups is represented by a player or no?

SoulKiller's response to this?

the write up
is not mean for you to use it to solve the game

I think that this was legitimately just a miscommunication. But again, when I pointed out that things weren't clear at that point, it escalated into another back-and-forth. Screw me for trying to understand the game I'm playing in, I guess.

But despite all this, I still gave SK the same respect as I would another host. I still let him know when any out-of-game communication was occurring with other players. All innocent of course. Other ongoing games, a review... I asked him questions and ignored the fact that his responses continued to be combative for little to no clear reason.

Then we come to the 27th. Lukundo made a post similar to the following (the following is as close as I remember) in response to the day start:

Osie - Why did you do what I think you did last night?

I responded with "What?", having used up all my actions before the night phase, and then thought about it and asked SK if it was okay figuring that it looked like either a scum fakeclaim of an investigative role or a scumslip of learning that I did the Haxtech Lighthouse thing.

SK responded by deleting the posts and telling me that he gave Lukundo a warning.

This suggested that I was correct in scumreading Lukundo for that post.

Given that I did not have a town gutread on Lukundo all Day phase, I agonized about reading him as scum in response to this for a bit, then turned around and said "No. I'll maintain game sanctity and treat it as if it didn't happen."

Then the game drudged on. And Lukundo didn't look any townier. And I realized just how much I didn't want to be in this game. How much this game and Kingdom had soured my impression of mafia on Animebase, and in particular, SoulKiller.

Before this game, I was setting aside my impression of SK from Kingdom. I said to myself that SK clearly cares about his community even if he might be a bit callous at times to players. This game makes it harder for me to tell if it's the community or just his ego.

I'm more than happy to play in no-claiming flavour-based-information games. I'm more than happy to respect for the host and their rules, whether or not they mirror my own. And if the host doesn't want to afford me that same respect to the degree of even elaborating their rules, okay. It's not my cup of tea for a host to not care about the enjoyment of their players, but I appreciate and respect the artistry involved in making a game like this.

I don't know that I'll be joining another game on Animebase. I have a setup in the works which I was planning to host here. It'll probably still happen eventually. Might even be a no-claiming game. Whether or not it is, it won't be something that's broken by claims. Because that hasn't been an issue in any of my games or the vast majority of the closed setup games that involved claiming on any site of which I've been a part. It's only been an issue with any significant frequency for open setups.

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Kingdom was run by a relatively new host, as far as I could tell. @Alice in Noodleland did a good job. I was understanding of the fact that she wasn't entirely comfortable with some of the basics of hosting. I was frustrated in Kingdom too due to toxicity that game, particularly from SoulKiller.

SoulKiller may be the most experienced host to be a currently-active regular on AnimeBase? I don't know that for certain, but he's certainly the head of game management. So what's his reason for being combative? What's his reason for worsening the experience of players in his game? For giving a player free information which means they can't solve. For being blasé and stand-offish about prods, modkills, and the rules of his game? For being the most toxic player in another host's game? Particularly a relatively new host.

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@SoulKiller - Before you respond to this defensively. Before you go off on me saying that I'm overreacting to you, that I'm just unskilled, or dumb... Well, first, finish reading, but also, maybe take a moment to self-reflect. Take a moment to think about whether or not you actually ran this game with your primary focus being the enjoyment of all of the players. Because if you can comfortably say that all of your actions in this game were entirely in good faith and in the same breath turn around and berate me for not being used to your ruleset... I'll let Aerosmith sum things up for me there:

If you can judge a wise man by the color of his skin, then mister, you're a better man than I.

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For everyone else:

@Toujo - It was nice playing with you! You certainly had me fooled. Something about your AtE... Oh well, live and learn. It was nice playing with you and I look forward to seeing you around!

@Just_Red - It sucks when life happens and you can't give a game your all. Sorting you felt a little less ridiculous this game. It's unfortunate that you weren't able to be around, but maybe in another game in the future. It was nice playing with you and I look forward to seeing you around!

@Michelle - You're remain the GOAT for me in regards to AB. First impressions of a community are one thing. Two times in a row is not so good. I think that for the most part, I still like a lot of what I see. I'm still down to host here, but playing in another game here any time soon doesn't feel like a good idea. Don't sell yourself short on your English! Your communication is better than you give yourself credit! It's always nice playing with you and I look forward to seeing you around!

@Alice in Noodleland - Survivor is a hard role to play well. You want to be townie enough that you don't get eliminated but scummy enough that you don't get nightkilled. I don't personally like doing that based on activity, but I think you did a solid job in terms of play. It's been fun hanging out with you here and there on Discord. It was nice playing with you and look forward to seeing you around!

@Rej - I was happy that I sorta soft metaread you correctly in this game. I felt like you were a bit more organic here than Kingdom, too. It was nice playing with you and I look forward to seeing you around!

@Houtarou - I feel like I was nasty to you surrounding your elimination, and that wasn't really fair. Sorry about that. Despite the stand-off this game, it was nice playing with you and I look forward to seeing you around!

@beeboat - It might not be intentional, but I've been really amused by how much you seem to project this aura of downplaying your skill at the game. You're a really solid and fun player! It was nice playing with you and I look forward to seeing you around!

@Aether9 - My read on you was overly based on activity for sure. Oh well. I was only sorta joking about the avatar marginally pushing my gutread on you towards a scumread. I don't know what it is about it... That said, it was nice playing with you and I look forward to seeing you around!

@-PK- - I sorta felt after last game that I wasn't going to sort you out without seeing your flip, especially because I was very uncertain on you all game this time. It's tough. Your play this game was a lot more fun for me than Kingdom though. It was nice playing with you and I look forward to seeing you around!

@Poison chan - We all still know you're underage. I feel like I've never really gotten to interact with you in a game as much as would be fun. Maybe some time in the future. I look forward to seeing you around!

@Kyte_ - I felt like I was swimming upstream trying to save you when I subbed in. Sorry about underestimating your experience. It was nice playing with you and I look forward to seeing you around!

@Elmage G Ace - You're one of those players that dodges outside of my radar in terms of gutreads and the more that happens, the more I start to fear you. *Shudder.* It was nice playing with you and I look forward to seeing you around!

@XTMF - You pocketed me quite well! That was a solid bit of work that day. I feel like you sorta should get a town MVP for the number of town that you cleared, lol. It was nice playing with you and I look forward to seeing you around!

@Ryu Kishi - I feel like I mentally wasn't fair to you throughout this game until near the late game. Sorry about that. It was good to see that the game sorta turned around. It was nice playing with you and I look forward to seeing you around!

@Ansatsuken - It took a free and unexpected cop check, but I did get there on you, I guess. I liked seeing you edge into a town leader position, as I was hoping would happen. It was nice playing with you and I look forward to seeing you around!

@AL_sama - It's sad to hear that this is your last game on Animebase for the time being. Maybe someone can pull you into a game elsewhere? It was nice playing with you and I look forward to seeing you around!

@Imperfection - Beyond the TMIs, I felt like when you did post, you did so with spirit. It also seemed like you might be able to do that as either alignment, which is scary. It was nice playing with you and I look forward to seeing you around!

@TheLukundo - It's unfortunate what happened there. Oh well. I don't blame you. The rules for the game weren't written very clearly, after all. I think I'm generally paranoid of you. Not sure if that's an overestimate or just accurate. You're always fun to play with and I look forward to seeing you around!

@Tigerrr in the woods - You were right, I sorta kept you at the edge of my PoE throughout the game. I want to believe that if Lukundo instead of me had been dead before ElLo, you would have been one of my first choices for elimination. But all-in-all, you played remarkably and were certainly not in the global PoE for most of the game. It was nice playing with you and I look forward to seeing you around!

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As mentioned, I'll probably not be playing around here for a while (and I'm not planning on joining any games anywhere in July), but I have a Kekkai-Sensen-themed game in the works here in addition to a number of games on other sites, in particular

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In the end, it's a game and there's no hard feelings from me towards anyone involved. Thanks to everyone for playing and thanks to @SoulKiller for hosting. The flavour was spot-on and the setup had a lot of interesting parts. It's cool to see that it came down to the wire.

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Osie out.