[Discussion] What is the most unrealistic talk no jutsu in the series?

[Naruto X Hunter]

You should jump off Sasuke's sack once in a while and actually consider the arguments from the neutral perspective.

Nothing i said was wrong. Just poor comprehension on your part.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Nothing i said was wrong. Just poor comprehension on your part.

the excuse of every blind fanboy.

 

[Naruto X Hunter]

the excuse of every blind fanboy.

You claim his Revolution plan, which fell perfectly in line with his development, was just an excuse for the final battle. Which is even more ridiculous given it was already made clear that they would fight before Sasuke even formed said plan.

 

[wanderingcactus]

Let's all be honest here folks, Naruto was going for that max Good Karma playthrough.

Sasuke and Naruto are playing that Paragon vs Renegade RPG choices.
Reminds me of Star Wars Old Republic dialogue actually

 

[salamander uchiha]

You claim his Revolution plan, which fell perfectly in line with his development, was just an excuse for the final battle. Which is even more ridiculous given it was already made clear that they would fight before Sasuke even formed said plan.

Of course it was an excuse, Sasuke had no reason to dight Naruto otherwise. The two would be in alignment and the conlfict wouldnbe over. The most you would get from them would be a spar. His developement became meaningless post pain arc. It was one big downhill, which Kishi wanted to get over and done with.

 

[Naruto X Hunter]

Of course it was an excuse, Sasuke had no reason to dight Naruto otherwise. The two would be in alignment and the conlfict wouldnbe over. The most you would get from them would be a spar. His developement became meaningless post pain arc. It was one big downhill, which Kishi wanted to get over and done with.

It's like you're saying, "Antagonist only oppose the main character because without conflict there wouldn't be a story." Obviously, but my point is Sasuke opposing Naruto makes sense in story.

Sasuke based his plan on the history of the Shinobi World & Itachi's life. He wanted to eliminate the major sources of conflict (Biju, seperated villages) & utilize a method that had proven to ensure unity amongst them (common enemy).

How is this a problem? He based his plan on facts and logic. Shinobi always fought each other to acquire the Biju's power. Leading to the current war. Pain ruled the Rain village as a God-like authority figure. Kaguya ended wars with her power. Madara united clans with his. Itachi avoided a civil war and potential world war by being a shadow agent. Focusing the blame on himself. The Uchiha as the Police Force subdued criminals. In particular other Shinobi. And the villages only united because they had a common enemy.

Sasuke looked up to his brother and clan so their influence is clearly grounded. And knowing history, i don't see why he shouldn't want to get rid of the Biju and believe the villages would seperate after the war.

Naruto wanted to let the Biju roam free, and believed the villages would stay united after war. Whilst Sasuke did not. Same goal (peace), but differing ways to achieve it.

 

[salamander uchiha]

-snip-

Way too much fanfic.

The only part of that which is true is Sasuke opposing Naruto made sense in the early part. After TnJ from Itachi it was over. The opposition used to justify the final battle made no sense. He wasn't even into it, it was all about having the final fight.

Kishi could've written it better and made it believable, but he didn't. Sasuke losing his focus and direction is what ruined it.

 

[Lukecetion]

The only part of that which is true is Sasuke opposing Naruto made sense in the early part. After TnJ from Itachi it was over. The opposition used to justify the final battle made no sense. He wasn't even into it, it was all about having the final fight.

Kishi could've written it better and made it believable, but he didn't. Sasuke losing his focus and direction is what ruined it.

While I by no means agree with all that Naruto x Hunter is saying, then I also don't agree with this either. From the earlier parts of the story Sasuke was written with a few character traits. For one is always focused on his goal ahead and works towards that without stopping. Secondly he is quick to anger and act when emotions are involved, as opposed to thinking like he does when he has no emotional ties to the situation. The third is Sasuke's inability to rely on others either because it makes him feel weak or he doesn't want harm to come to others.

All of these traits are still visible by the conclusion of the story and during the final fight. He made himself a goal to protect the world from the shadows and he did this because he didn't want harm to come to others that he loved and more than anything he didn't want to feel the pain of loosing someone again. This caused him to become emotional and irrational in his thinking, not considering all solutions about the situation. In the end he only agrees to give up his pursue when he realizes that the one quality that makes Naruto superior to him is that Naruto doesn't fear pain, he accepts it and wants to change it rather than hide it.

This is why Sasuke cries, because he is extremely emotional and he loves Team 7 like family, but his love is only rivaled by his fear of losing that attachment, so he'd rather lock himself away. When he realizes that Naruto and Team 7 are feeling the same thing he is, he cries because he realizes what he is doing to them. He is causing them the same harm he is trying to escape from and Naruto is is still facing it head on. Thus he declares that "I give up" because he admits that in this regard Naruto is stronger even if their fight ended in a draw.

His choice to "save the world" from the shadows by creating a common enemy for all eternity that people feared wasn't out of rational thinking, nor because it was the best way to solve the problem. It was the only way Sasuke saw where he could escape his fear and this is why he constantly try to tell people to keep their distance and "forget" about him, because he wants to do that himself.

 

[Naruto X Hunter]

Way too much fanfic.

The only part of that which is true is Sasuke opposing Naruto made sense in the early part. After TnJ from Itachi it was over. The opposition used to justify the final battle made no sense. He wasn't even into it, it was all about having the final fight.

Kishi could've written it better and made it believable, but he didn't. Sasuke losing his focus and direction is what ruined it.

So it didn't make sense for Sasuke to want to get rid of the Biju, and believed the villages that only united because they had a common enemy, would eventually seperate after the war?

 

[salamander uchiha]

So it didn't make sense for Sasuke to want to get rid of the Biju, and believed the villages that only united because they had a common enemy, would eventually seperate after the war?

Well yeah, the bijuu weren't even responsible for the war between nations. The ninja and people were to blame, yhey always tried to get the edge on one another. And Madara's name had already unified the world so..

 

[Naruto X Hunter]

Well yeah, the bijuu weren't even responsible for the war between nations. The ninja and people were to blame, yhey always tried to get the edge on one another.

That's the point.

Shinobi - Fight to obtain & abuse Biju power for decades.

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Akatsuki - Hunt for Biju causing a catastrophic world war.
Obito - Use Biju's power in said war.
Madara - Uses said Biju to cast Genjutsu on the entire world.
Kaguya - Tries to use said Genjutsu to turn humanity into a White Zetsu army.
Naruto - Wants to let them roam free.
Sasuke - Wants to eliminate them so no one can ever abuse their power again.
Momoshiki & Kinshiki - nearly blindside & kill Naruto on their quest for the Biju.
Urashiki - Currently trying to obtain the Ichibi.

And Madara's name had already unified the world so..

After several decades of fighting - 3 entire world wars and smaller clashes like the Sand & Sound teaming up to invade and destroy Konoha, the top 5 Villages united for the first time in history only because they had a common enemy - the Akatsuki. What about when said threat is gone?

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Teaming up for a couple days because they were forced to, doesn't automatically overwrite decades of turmoil. Sasuke was thinking logically. The Kage and Samurai even agreed to work together until the Akatsuki was defeated. So before the war even started they had their split in mind.

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[salamander uchiha]

-snip-

The misinterpretation is real,

Yet the Bijuu were never sought after during the wars, and neither did they participate in the wars.

They were never a threat, because they could be sealed by the nations. They served no purpose in battle and instead protected their villages.

Akatsuki taking them was to use them to bring world peace. They were a means to an end and not the end.

Sasuke assumed peace wouldn't remain after Madara had already unified the world. That was because he went full retard and needed a reason to justify the final battle.

He wanted to become the Madara of this time, because a final battle was needed. He wasn't even sure of his goal and was trying to convincehimself. He was no longer a worthy charavter post TnJ by Itachi.

You should accept the facts for what they are. Sasuke was ruined as a character and the final fight was based off of a forced goal.

 

[Animegoin]

So it didn't make sense for Sasuke to want to get rid of the Biju, and believed the villages that only united because they had a common enemy, would eventually seperate after the war?

You asked the wrong question, you should’ve asked whether or not it made sense for Sasuke wanting to kill the Gokage.

Because as Salamander just explained, the bijuu were always subject to the will of humans. Humans were the problem, more specifically human leaders who craved power (such as Danzo, who murdered an entire clan for just for doujutsu to control Kurama).

 

[ROHAN]

Nagato had tried Jiraiya's method and failed, he lost his family first then his friends. He had years to build up his convictions and ideals. He even went as far as exacting revenge on Konoha and then to suddenly get TnJ's by a story made no sense. Naruto's reasoning was sort of childish, imo.

Obito, because Naruto magically entered his mind and made him question his conviction. Obito who had gone through all that(Nagato and more) to become the JJ, just giving up in the end made no sense either. He had tried Naruto's path, he was Naruto, yet was failed by everybody. He went as far as wiping out his clan for his goals(broken all ties), but gave into Naruto.

Sasuke was the worst, but he was TnJd by Itachi and then manipulated by Hashirama. That was kind of pathetic, Naruto didn't really have to do much. However, nobody does a complete U turn like Sasuke did, he didn't even kill the oppressors of his clan(parents). They were still advising the Hokage, nothing had changed. I stayed Sasuke sucked it all up and became a loyal dog protecting the status quo. That's not realistic, not even close to realistic.

Sauke's U-Turn is the worst in the series. A big factor to this is Kishi rushing the story at the end.

 

[Animegoin]

Sauke's U-Turn is the worst in the series. A big factor to this is Kishi rushing the story at the end.

I’m torn between Sasuke’s and Orochimaru’s. But Obito’s takes the cake for me.

30+ years of manipulating the world, murdering masses, obtaining god power, etc. just to flip on a dime. Even after he witnessed Naruto literally give up on his will (until Hinata smacked some sense into him), he still dreamt of that retarded title of Hokage. It was the dumbest shit I’d read at that time.

 

[ROHAN]

I’m torn between Sasuke’s and Orochimaru’s. But Obito’s takes the cake for me.

Orochimaru's U-turn was more sensible. He was not TNJ'ed. He simply sided with a side which would ensure the proper continuation of his own agenda.

The worst U-turns are by Obito, Nagato, Kabuto and Sasuke.

Post automatically merged: Aug 22, 2019

Sauke's U-Turn is the worst in the series. A big factor to this is Kishi rushing the story at the end.

This is me saying as a Sauke fanboy. That is how bad it is.

Post automatically merged: Aug 22, 2019

I’m torn between Sasuke’s and Orochimaru’s. But Obito’s takes the cake for me.

30+ years of manipulating the world, murdering masses, obtaining god power, etc. just to flip on a dime. Even after he witnessed Naruto literally give up on his will (until Hinata smacked some sense into him), he still dreamt of that retarded title of Hokage. It was the dumbest shit I’d read at that time.

Wow, I never considered the bold. lol

 

[Animegoin]

yeah I was speaking on U-turns as opposed to TNJs.

Orochimaru had everything he could possibly want at his disposal, he could’ve taken Sasuke’s body using the Kage (minus Hashi obvi) and manifested the Rinnegan since he knew that the Sharingan evolved into the Rinnegan via Kabuto’s conversation.

 

[ROHAN]

yeah I was speaking on U-turns as opposed to TNJs.

Orochimaru had everything he could possibly want at his disposal, he could’ve taken Sasuke’s body using the Kage (minus Hashi obvi) and manifested the Rinnegan since he knew that the Sharingan evolved into the Rinnegan via Kabuto’s conversation.

Yeah that part is slightly mysterious. Orochimaru showed interest in taking Sasuke's body and could have easily taken it with the help of the EDO Kages. Yet he did not. Maybe he has a sinister plan.

 

[Naruto X Hunter]

The misinterpretation is real,

Yet the Bijuu were never sought after during the wars, and neither did they participate in the wars.

They were never a threat, because they could be sealed by the nations. They served no purpose in battle and instead protected their villages.

Hashirama was the one who set up the Jinchuriki system after Madara controlled the Kyuubi. He did it specifically so everyone wouldn't be running around trying to obtain the Biju to one-up the other. Imagine if the Cloud got a Biju first. Would they wait for others to gain them or start attacking others? Hashirama balance things by handing out Biju to everyone at the same time.

Akatsuki taking them was to use them to bring world peace.

Are you implying that the Akatsuki were not a problem? Terrorist stealing nukes to enforce their authority over everyone isn't a problem because they want peace? Nagato wanted to use the Biju to wipe out hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people. And overtime he planned for others to follow his example by doing the same.

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Do i really need to explain to you how the genocide of millions of people is a bad thing? And notice how Nagato believed that even after nuclear warfare, people will eventually go back to fighting. Yet here you are believing just because enemies united for two days to fight another enemy, there will be ever lasting peace.

They were a means to an end and not the end.

Which is why humanity was on the brink of extinction from being turned into White Zetsu. Yeah, a means to end human life.

Sasuke assumed peace wouldn't remain after Madara had already unified the world. That was because he went full retard and needed a reason to justify the final battle.

Notice how Madara entirely gave up on the idea of long standing peace and wanted to force everyone into a never ending Genjutsu. Yet Sasuke is wrong for thinking peace wouldn't last.

He wanted to become the Madara of this time, because a final battle was needed. He wasn't even sure of his goal and was trying to convincehimself. He was no longer a worthy charavter post TnJ by Itachi.

You should accept the facts for what they are. Sasuke was ruined as a character and the final fight was based off of a forced goal.

Sasuke's plan for peace was better than Madara, Obito, and Pain's.

You asked the wrong question, you should’ve asked whether or not it made sense for Sasuke wanting to kill the Gokage.

Because as Salamander just explained, the bijuu were always subject to the will of humans. Humans were the problem, more specifically human leaders who craved power (such as Danzo, who murdered an entire clan for just for doujutsu to control Kurama).

I know the Biju themselves were peaceful creatures. My entire point was how others abused their power. People can't abuse their power if there aren't any Biju to even abuse. That's one less problem.

Orochimaru's U-turn was more sensible. He was not TNJ'ed. He simply sided with a side which would ensure the proper continuation of his own agenda.

The worst U-turns are by Obito, Nagato, Kabuto and Sasuke.

Post automatically merged: Aug 22, 2019

This is me saying as a Sauke fanboy. That is how bad it is.

Post automatically merged: Aug 22, 2019

Wow, I never considered the bold. lol

You're not much of a Sasuke fan if you don't even understand his development.

His choice to "save the world" from the shadows by creating a common enemy for all eternity that people feared wasn't out of rational thinking, nor because it was the best way to solve the problem. It was the only way Sasuke saw where he could escape his fear and this is why he constantly try to tell people to keep their distance and "forget" about him, because he wants to do that himself.

It was literally the only thing proven to unite everyone.

 

[salamander uchiha]

-snip-

If you believe any of that you need help, it doesn't warrant getting solod again.

Btw, Nagato was working for Madara, he was even supposed to use the Rinne Tensei to revive him. He wasn't nuking anybody and neithwr was it possible.