Are gates user immune to genjutsu?

[MightGai]

A little rehash of a topic I've opened some years ago. Seeing that one of the ways to free yourself from genjutsu is via induced pain (as shikamaru for example breaks his finger in his fight against tayuya or even a simple lip bite from Kurenai against Itachi), and the gates while opened does provoke certain amount of constant pain to the user (at the very least, more than a lip bite) , wouldn't that make gate users immune to genjutsu?

 

[3MESSIAH]

It is great for preventing genjutsu because the speed that Gates let you manever is enough to completely avoid genjutsu-especially doujutsu

I am not sure if it can work like that for breaking out of it though

Genjutsus enable one to manipulate their Thoughts And chakra Flow so greater genjutsu like tsukuyomi And rinne genjutsu would completely stop the capability that you need to even think, let alone manipulate Gates And concentrate on the pain

It most likely could work on lesser Genjutsus like tayuya's genjutsu for instance

 

[Styles]

No, why would they be immune?

 

[MightGai]

It is great for preventing genjutsu because the speed that Gates let you manever is enough to completely avoid genjutsu-especially doujutsu

I am not sure if it can work like that for breaking out of it though

Genjutsus enable one to manipulate their Thoughts And chakra Flow so greater genjutsu like tsukuyomi And rinne genjutsu would completely stop the capability that you need to even think, let alone manipulate Gates And concentrate on the pain

It most likely could work on lesser Genjutsus like tayuya's genjutsu for instance

I don't mean it that they wouldn't be trapped due to the speed, mainly the point is about the pain the gates inflict on the user as a getaway card from a genjutsu.

No, why would they be immune?

Read above

 

[Reboryushon]

No. It was stated that Gai learned how to fight a sharingan wielder by not looking at his eyes but at his feet position. This points that gates don't do anything versus genjutsu.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

A little rehash of a topic I've opened some years ago. Seeing that one of the ways to free yourself from genjutsu is via induced pain (as shikamaru for example breaks his finger in his fight against tayuya or even a simple lip bite from Kurenai against Itachi), and the gates while opened does provoke certain amount of constant pain to the user (at the very least, more than a lip bite) , wouldn't that make gate users immune to genjutsu?

No. Firsty pain is not a sure fire way to break out of genjutsu. Secondly, Kurenai did not use pain to break out of her genjutsu. And finally,the genjutsu caster can simply account for it when setting up the genjutsu.

 

[uhmusddy]

I don’t think that’s right considering genjutsu’s can induce real physical pain while still keeping the victim trapped

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Towards basic level genjutsu anyone capable of preforming 8 gates should be well adept enough to disrupt their chakra go break out of a genjutsu instead of relying on inflicting pain. Ocular genjutsu no chance.

 

[chopstickchakra]

A little rehash of a topic I've opened some years ago. Seeing that one of the ways to free yourself from genjutsu is via induced pain (as shikamaru for example breaks his finger in his fight against tayuya or even a simple lip bite from Kurenai against Itachi), and the gates while opened does provoke certain amount of constant pain to the user (at the very least, more than a lip bite) , wouldn't that make gate users immune to genjutsu?

I don't think so. If you were in the gates when you went under genjutsu then your body would be familiar with that pain level so that would essentially be the base and you need a rush/surge of pain to break the genjutsu.

 

[The Necromancer]

Secondly, Kurenai did not use pain to break out of her genjutsu.

You sure about that?

 

[Reboryushon]

You sure about that?

I don't think he is.

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[BenjerminGaye]

You sure about that?

I don't think he is.

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I'm pretty sure. There's no blood on her face, after she bites her lip in the genjutsu. Meaning the bite never happened in the real world. Meaning she didn't cause any real pain.

 

[nandachikara]

a seventh gate gai can break any genjutsu that is not too op,genjutsu like tsukoyomi and kotoamatsumi cannot be broken with sheer willpower so the gate loses

 

[Uverdore9]

Kurenai broke her own genjutsu. You got the whole concept of genjutsu wrong. It's not whether you can inflict massive amounts of pain to your body It's whether are you capable of really inflicting that much pain to your body in a practical situation to successfully break it. It's easy in paper since by your logic any weakling can inflict pain and break free out of any type of genjutsu.
When in genjutsu the user manipulates the chakra in your cranial nerves which means even if you inflict pain on your body you will not be able to feel said pain since your brain controls how you react to that certain sensation. No use in creating pain if you cant feel that pain. The only sure way of breaking extremely weak forms of illusions is with Kai Release and applying more power to disrupt your chakra flow the concept that stamina allows creation of more power was explained in part 1 by Kakashi to make things short; people with more stamina are capable of breaking genjutsu by extracting more power from thier reserves which is why Senju are equal in average to non-sharingan uchiha, Sharingan genjutsu works differently.

 

[Edogawa]

If Gates of Hell users are immune to Genjutsu, Gai would have opened them when fighting Itachi. So they aren't immune and one glimpse of Sharingan or Sound one-shots them. Only a Rinnegan is immune to visual Genjutsu.

 

[MightGai]

No. Firsty pain is not a sure fire way to break out of genjutsu.

Why not? As far as we know, pain is one of the three ways to break a genjutsu

Secondly, Kurenai did not use pain to break out of her genjutsu.

Yes she did:

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Are you seriously going to use the "no blood later" (like biting a lip would bring forth a gush of blood, or like everytime someone used kuchiyose the blood would show afterwards) to negate the obvious sequence?

And finally,the genjutsu caster can simply account for it when setting up the genjutsu.

How? It's not like there is a gauge for how much chakra or effort to put if someone uses pain to break free.

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As far as we are aware, self inflicted pain is enough to break a genjutsu, which is basically what the gates users feel when they have their gates opened. There isn't a bar on how much chakra must put someone into a genjutsu to prevent pain from breaking someone free from it as far as we know.

I don't think so. If you were in the gates when you went under genjutsu then your body would be familiar with that pain level so that would essentially be the base and you need a rush/surge of pain to break the genjutsu.

There isn't any mention about a "base" level of pain and to have to "up" that to break free inside the genjutsu. It stands to reason that any regular ninja wouldn't be self inflicting pain constantly on his own body, so there shouldn't be any "base level of pain" (which would mean just a normal state for any ninja) to gauge.

If Gates of Hell users are immune to Genjutsu, Gai would have opened them when fighting Itachi. So they aren't immune and one glimpse of Sharingan or Sound one-shots them. Only a Rinnegan is immune to visual Genjutsu.

What fight? he just told Itachi that he requested anbu and that's it. It was barely a talk.

 

[chopstickchakra]

Why not? As far as we know, pain is one of the three ways to break a genjutsu



Yes she did:

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Are you seriously going to use the "no blood later" (like biting a lip would bring forth a gush of blood, or like everytime someone used kuchiyose the blood would show afterwards) to negate the obvious sequence?



How? It's not like there is a gauge for how much chakra or effort to put if someone uses pain to break free.

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As far as we are aware, self inflicted pain is enough to break a genjutsu, which is basically what the gates users feel when they have their gates opened. There isn't a bar on how much chakra must put someone into a genjutsu to prevent pain from breaking someone free from it as far as we know.




There isn't any mention about a "base" level of pain and to have to "up" that to break free inside the genjutsu. It stands to reason that any regular ninja wouldn't be self inflicting pain constantly on his own body, so there shouldn't be any "base level of pain" (which would mean just a normal state for any ninja) to gauge.



What fight? he just told Itachi that he requested anbu and that's it. It was barely a talk.

Possibly I was just looking at it from the stand point that there body is used to the pain so it's kind of like a numb damage being done so I don't know if the damage would disrupt their senses.

Also I was figuring that you're body is at a certain level of pain/tension when you're put under genjutsu and that needs to rise to release you i.e. If a ninja is cut during a fight and then placed in genjutsu he's already in pain so that pain that existed before the genjutsu took affect would not be able to break it you would need to produce a higher level of pain in order to shock yourself out of the genjutsu.

 

[Hag0r0m0 0tsutsuki]

Izanami

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Why not? As far as we know, pain is one of the three ways to break a genjutsu

as already said this is not 100% true

Yes she did:

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Are you seriously going to use the "no blood later" (like biting a lip would bring forth a gush of blood, or like everytime someone used kuchiyose the blood would show afterwards) to negate the obvious sequence?

theres literally no evidence of her lip being bitten outside the genjutsu so theres literally 0 way to prove that she actually bit her lip. Where as with shikamaru his finger remains broken even after the genjutsu ends. I am very serious with the "no blood after" since its the only way to actually prove it. And you know that. Hence why you try to skate around the issue.

How? It's not like there is a gauge for how much chakra or effort to put if someone uses pain to break free.

What do you mean how? the genjutsu caster controls their 5 senses, its not hard to incorporate the pain into the illusion.

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As far as we are aware, self inflicted pain is enough to break a genjutsu, which is basically what the gates users feel when they have their gates opened. There isn't a bar on how much chakra must put someone into a genjutsu to prevent pain from breaking someone free from it as far as we know.

if that were the case everyone could simply bite their finger and break every illusion, since that accounts for self inflicted pain. But it doesn't work like that. At all.




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[MightGai]

as already said this is not 100% true



theres literally no evidence of her lip being bitten outside the genjutsu so theres literally 0 way to prove that she actually bit her lip. Where as with shikamaru his finger remains broken even after the genjutsu ends. I am very serious with the "no blood after" since its the only way to actually prove it. And you know that. Hence why you try to skate around the issue.



What do you mean how? the genjutsu caster controls their 5 senses, its not hard to incorporate the pain into the illusion.

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if that were the case everyone could simply bite their finger and break every illusion, since that accounts for self inflicted pain. But it doesn't work like that. At all.

[/QUOTE]

I can't believe you're seriously trying to pull that off:

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No blood on Jiraiya's hand when he tries to use the kuchiyose, yet a couple of frames above he was gushing blood on the palm of his hand

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No blood on Naruto's thumb, yet a couple of frames before he blood signed the contract scroll, and when he tries to use the kuchiyose the blood is there again.

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Naruto smearing his thumb again to summon Gamabunta, yet then it's clean.

Seriously, I didn't tag you as a troll, so just stop, it ain't funny. Or at the very least explain how illusory pain (cause if she bit her lip inside the genjutsu, the pain wasn't real) was used to break free.

I mean how the caster can gauge the self inflicted pain from the victim in order to prevent the genjutsu from ending, because so far we have seen Shikamaru's arm being melted off in a genjutsu and a single broken finger was enough to break free (and it's not like that cause more pain than his arm being melted, logically and also based on the screams).

Problem is, the genjutsu can be subtle , so the user doesn't know he has to inflict himself pain to break himself free or it can be a paralysis genjutsu where the user cannot move, and shikamaru happened to be lucky enough to be able to pull a jutsu without physically moving, or Orochimaru losing his hand to break free from the sharingan genjutsu of Itachi for that matter. That also didn't happen in real life?