No, this is somewhat messed up. You completely twisted what i said. I called her fallen not in the literal sense but in the sense, her devolopment was "fallen", not to be taken literally but you did but i cant blame you for that. You were kinda narrowing the character down to his or her roles, which was what i was referring to, which doesnt exactly work in one piece universe, since someone like usopp and nami are considered threats, though both persona wise are scaredy cat like. So that logic is nonsensical.
Anyways, let me point out some flaws in your statement :-
1) You said she always fled, which is null, since a lot of characters who have been weak in the past have been proven strong in the later part.
2) You said rayleigh misunderstood history but no, je didnt, he was actually referring to the that "every person can find something another cant, and can come to a unique conclusion" philosphy. His captain was roger. Someone who could hear everything, which enables him to accurately understand and comprehend it. He was talking about uniqueness rather than lack of understanding from his part. And saying Gorosei dont know true history is nonsense at best when they are the Top of the World Government.
3) I was talking about hype in the sense, the full prowess of the DF was never revealed or shown. I could point out a 100 scenarios of KO's a non-logia opponent can suffer when faced against this DF.
4) You said she wasnt a combatant, wrong, she had to live her life by escaping and possibly fighting, so she knows the ins and outs of combat, at least on the basic level, its not that god comes down and assigns someone as a "combatant" or "pacifist". That isnt an excuse for compulsive stagnation of devolopment for the Sake of Plot (If she uses the potential to its fullest, 80% characters get stomped and im being generous.)
5)You limited her to her respective job, when the same can be said about franky, brook, nami. You didnt see the potential but instead tried narrowing everything, even a hypothetical situation down to the current scenario, without giving much thought, though this isnt the versus section to go strictly by facts.
6)You said she was "thoroughly well built" character when that doesnt seem to be the case, when was the last time she had a solo fight in the manga? When she was considered among the monster trio by nami in Skypiea Arc? How is that a "throughouly fulfilled character"?
7) I didnt refer to the Wiki because its god, i referred to it, to harden my argument. Even if it wasnt written in the wiki, dont you think its pretty versatile? Its pretty overpowered? If you think about it combining the possibilities and all, it is. As i said, at least in a hypothetical scenario.
8) "She isnt a top level fighter", she isnt shown to be but what if it was shown? Too OP. All the main characters would get washed away at best, except logias. Her character is a mid level combatant, not her ability. Its like saying perona is a mid level combatant when faced against someone like Zoro who will clearly lose against her without haki, despite his portrayal as a better combat oriented character. She wasnt portrayed to be, doesnt she cant be.
9) No iam not mesmerized, im looking at possibilities . But from your post, i figured that you are not willing to imagine a hypothetical scenario, which is kinda narrow if you ask me. With all due respect, one praising her intellect doesnt come off as positive as one praising her battle abilities. Why? Because this is a battle manga. Battle oriented praise comes as many times more positive than passive traits such as personality and other milder talents. Its like praising itachi for his intelligence and completely narrow mindedly seeing his battle abilities without giving it a thorough thought. That doesnt come off as positive. Especially when the character does have an OP ability which isnt put to use efficiently.
10)Crocodile wanting her for her poneglyph knowledge doesnt mean she is automatically a support character, crocodile had the perfect counter(logia), i wonder how it wouldve went if she was under doflamingo..... luffy also has the perfect counter to her abilities (stretching, which nullifies bone wrecking and like). Also how come you came to the distorted conclusion that her abilities "werent hyped".... "Power and speed are nothing before me"...isnt that big a hype? She has the second best hype after whitebeard's ability of destroying the whole world.
I didnt accuse you, i was just pointing out the fact it couldve gone another path, but you were kinda not that willing to reconsider the current situation. Have a nice day.
sir dont take this as rude, but do you have anything against this character? Or against females in general?
This is what you said. You said this in reply to me praising Robin's intellect and explaining to you the simple truth that Robin is not some kind of warrior princess you want her to be and that there also no need for that. Somehow you interpret that as me having something against Robin and females in general. That's a ridiculously twisted conclusion that makes no sense whatsoever. And I didn't interpret anything wrong or are you going to tell me you interpreted my posts as saying Robin dropped to the floor? That's the literal meaning of fallen.
I didn't twist what you said, what you said was already twisted to a ridiculous degree.
1) She has been fleeing nearly her entire life. This was at the core of the Water 7 and Enies Lobbies arcs. This is stuff that has been explained in detail. She had a bounty on her head from when she was a kid and every time she tried to stay somewhere, it was just a matter of time before someone tried to capture here, which led her to become wary of everyone. How can you not know this? Only after she met the Strawhats she finally decided she found her "home", but that doesn't take away she is not suddenly going to transform into someone who is going to start picking fights. That's not in her nature.
2) Again this is something that he specifically explained. That they couldn't read the Poneglyph, that they weren't as intelligent as the people of Ohara and that they might have been too soon and that the conclusion the Strawhats end up with might be completely different. This is not just some shallow philosophical beliefs about people being snowflakes, we're talking here about something that can shake the foundation of the entire world. You don't even know what exactly Roger could hear, yet you pretend that you do. And nonsense? Then how come they don't know where the ancient weapons are, huh? They can't read the Poneglyph so they don't know exactly what is on them and you don't know how much they know or don't know, only that they know something.
3) No, what you are doing is hyping the DF yourself imagining what it could do and then complain it didn't happen, but that's not how this works. This is common sense, you can do this for all DF. You can hype all of them to ridiculous degrees, but it's how the characters use them that counts. You for some reason are favoring that particular DF, but you can do that for all of them. A 100 scenarios? You can likewise formulate a 100 scenarios that will counter all of yours. Why? Because you are being subjective and are making up baseless scenarios where Robin always comes out victorious, just like you could create a 100 scenarios for all the other DF.
4) She isn't a combatant. That's an objective, undeniable fact. The reality that you are complaining she isn't fighting enough is proof of that. That's why I said your reasoning is upside down, which is true. Yes she can fight, all the Strawhats can fight, but there is a huge difference between people like Zoro and Luffy, who like to fight, showcase their strength and are the first ones to jump into a brawl. Characters like Robin and Nami aren't like that. They just need to have means to fight if necessary and be able to defend themselves. Robin didn't survive all those years by picking fights. Read the manga again. If she was beating the crap out of everyone, her bounty would have increased tremendously, while it remained the same till she became part of the Strawhats. Why? Because she avoided attention as much as possible, like not getting into fights =/
And 80%? Stop being modest. Each DF can beat everyone else in 100% of the cases if you put in enough imagination. That's the benefit of making stuff up: there's no limit.
5) I didn't limit her to her job, I explained her character as how she is conceptualized. If Oda wanted a Xena warrior princess, he would have made her completely different. What you are doing is making Robin out to be a character she is not. It's also ridiculously laughable that you call beating the crap out of people "character development".
6) Since when are solo fights imperative to the development of a character? This notion is so shallow it's laughable. Again reasoning upside down, why does a character that is not meant to be a fighting spectacle, be fighting? It's quite hypocritical when you say I'm limiting, while apparently your view so narrow that apparently a character can only grow by beating people up 1 on 1 and that her DF is what defines her character.
7) You tried to harden your argument with something that completely undermines it? And again many DF are versatile and overpowered if you imagine hard enough.
8) Again reasoning upside down. What if Zoro can cook amazingly, but that it isn't shown because it would make Sanji's character less relevant? This kind of reasoning is pointless as you are trying to make a character into something it is not. No you assume baselessly that she is that OP because you are being biased because you fancy that DF.
9) Get a reality check, you are being biased and not even a little. And a hypothetical scenario? That's not what you described. You portrayed this all as being facts. You said she was nerved, which is baseless. You said she was overpowered, which is baseless and that list goes on and on. Do you know what a hypothetical formulation would have been? Something like this:
What if Oda had focused more on Robin's combat and DF qualities? Would this have influenced her character development and in which way?
This is hypothetical, the complete opposite of what hell it is you did. And how crooked is your reasoning? You call me narrow-minded and sexist while you just admitted that flexing muscles and beating the crap out of people is apparently the pinnacle of development and that being intelligent is something negative in comparison. What? It's also really really sad that you just limited OP to being a "battle manga". I really suggest you read the series again from scratch and put more effort in the complexities of its characters as your understanding of it is as shallow as they come.
You can think about the possibilities of all DF all day long, but that doesn't make it worthwhile as not every character is defined and shouldn't be defined solely by their DF.
10) You're doing it again. You keep accusing me of being narrow minded, while the limit of your own view is whether a character can beat up another character enough. Crocodile recruited her for her Poneglyph reading abilities because he wanted Pluton. Her combat abilities were not relevant and asking what it would be under DD is completely random. On which ground does this comparison even stand? Why did you even drag him in here? It makes no sense.
And her abilities weren't particularly hyped. That's you that's hyping it, which is something you can do for all DF. Only in the very beginning during her introduction she was somewhat overwhelming as she completely played the Strawhats and was able to beat Pell, but all of that is highly relative. That doesn't even come close to the hype you are giving it.
The fact that you use something she said herself as an argument deals the death blow to all of your nonsense as apparently we have to use character's self praise as objective standards? On FI one of the released pirate prisoners screamed he would become the Pirate King, now will he? As apparently according to your logic this irrelevant, unknown character has been majorly hyped to become the PK, no? Power and speed are nothing before her, yet she got fried by Enel. What, he's Logia and that doesn't count? But she said power and speed are nothing before her, so dodging mere lightning should have been easy, no?
This is the kind of screwed up logic you have been using this entire thread. It all boils down to the exact same thing: you for some reason are smitten by that DF and are hyping it and are dissatisfied because your unreasonable expectations weren't met.
Yes you accused me. I call a character that happens to be female intelligent and somehow my behavior towards all women is questioned. What?
You have produced exactly zero sensible arguments. Even you should have some awareness that there's seriously something screwed up in your logic when you obliviously come to the conclusion that someone hates females when he praises a single fictional woman's intellect.
I guess Robin actually was intended Fallen villain to hero which was one of the oda's best developed character , maybe i do slightly disagree se was hyped in beginning as powerful but as the chapters progressed and intentions with luffy i slowly realised she was sidekick who will betray crocodile in the end that did happen . In the end as a reader i do feel disappointed robin doesnt carry fighting experience still i do think she can fend of f on her own . I guess Oda made her role kind of limited to historian rather than fighter he didnt want her character to be complicated .
And that's exactly what I said. At the very beginning when she got introduced she somewhat felt overwhelming, but it became clear throughout the arc that she wasn't a warrior-type and there is also no reason for her to be one. That wouldn't make her Robin.
And can you say for certain that someone like Robin was less active in terms of fighting than like for example Nami? All Strawhats can fight and have occasionally fought, but that doesn't mean their conceptualization is centered around that and her character was one of the most complicated ones of the entire crew.
who needs an arc about the characters past or family when u can just make them fight, much more effective
