[Debate] Racial Theories of the Altright.

Narushima

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I'd find myself with the others, although I'm not a member of the alt-right or any other far right fringe movement. It's a statement of fact that not all races are equal, and you don't have to be an ethno-nationalist to acknowledge this. It would be unwise to believe that humans, after millions of years of evolution across seperate continents on the globe, would result on par with one another; along with I.Q. as you mentioned, races vary physiologically and genetically giving each race distinguishable traits and attributes from one another. In my personal perspective, it's the variation in traits among races -- the inimitability, that makes each race beautiful.

I have no problem with the alt-right or anyone trying to enlighten people on the reality of race, but I do have a problem with the alt-right trying to use these truths to fuel their white nationalist propaganda and further their ethocentric narrative. One major flaw with the alt-right is that their entire ideology only works within a collective framework; they overemphasize on statistical averages in reference to race and use them as mapping tools to assess how the nation should operate while ignoring the "individual(s)" that make up the statistics and the nation. There's more variation among individuals within a given race than among different races collectively, and while all races follow general tendencies in a given factor, the margin of error of individual members within a given race that don't fall in line with the general rule is far too significant to be considered reliable; especially when dealing with such large populations.

Lastly, all interpretations of the white ethnostate "Utopia" the alt-right advocate for are unrealistic and are unlikely to ever come to fruition. You would need more than half the current white population to go alt-right to even see alt-right policies be enacted into government, yet alone to be able to overtake the government, which would be unreal seeing as an arguable majority of whites either prefer or are indifferent to living among other races of people. Even if they did manage to get over half the white population to go alt-right, they would still have to deal with the growing population of non-white minorities that represent 40% of the current U.S. population. Whether it be a successfully waged race war, or voluntary eugentics, neither exist within the realm of possibility.

TL;DR Not all races are equal, the alt-right is stupid, a U.S. white ethnostate will never happen.

You are casting pearls before swine, my friend.

I have little to add to what you have said other than that the bolded statement, known as Lewontin’s fallacy in population genetics though here you seem to have applied it to population consequences of trait differences, is misleading, and that you underappreciate the consequences of the demographic trends in the US given that you accept scientific racial realism.

While the overlap between statistical distributions on any trait will mean that individuals of all types will exist in all populations, mean differences in distributions on traits that are important for modern, technological economies will have important consequences, most notably in the form of human capital.

An interesting reference that I recommend to you is Richard Lynn’s The Global Bell Curve: Race, IQ and Inequality Worldwide. Lynn shows that if you ignore natural resources like crude oil, the average IQ of states worldwide explain most of the variation in their economic performance.

And that is a hardly surprising finding.

Cognitive ability explains most of the variation in individual economic performance – it naturally follows that it will likewise explain the variation between groups of individuals in the form of states. Resource poor states like Japan and Korea show us that human capital, itself largely a function of cognitive ability, is the most important explanatory factor in the economic capacity of states.

Which is why the demographic trends in the US will have real and significant consequences. You are correct that a White ethno-state in the US is not feasible but as the US becomes Brazil in its demographic makeup, it will also approach it in social, economic and political standards. The same goes for western Europe, which will approach the Middle East in that regard, in the future.

Richard Lynn himself does not have any hope for the western world – however he is convinced that the East Asian states (Japan, Korea and China) will maintain themselves as ethno-states and that therefore modern, scientific and technological civilization will live on in them. Though I identify with the alt-right for the most part, the more I live, the more I find myself coming to a similar position.
 

Sagebee

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Lol you guys racially circle jerking each other with no real hard science to back you up:lol
 

Multiply

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If I had to assess your response I'd say you're offended by my statements, you have little to no knowledge on the topic of I.Q., have made zero effort to look into the topic, but you were emotionally driven to reject my statements as fact. The fact that you entered the thread with complete disbelief of I.Q. then follow up with a request of sources on integral facts on I.Q. in the same breath shows to me that you've already formed an opinion without looking at facts and evidence, which is irrational.

I.Q. is an established reality, it would be too much of a hassle to find credible that focused around the topic of I.Q. that doesn't refer to I.Q. with the presupposition that the readers already aware of what I.Q. is. I can provide you research on I.Q. thresholds, but I don't see what purpose that would serve if you don't even believe in I.Q. The way I see it, you either accept I.Q. as a reality so we can continue this discussion, or continue to be willfully ignorant and hold the positions that you hold.

I'm not offended by your statements. I might even agree with some of them. However saying specific races have specific IQ thresholds is a massive thing to say and I'd need evidence to agree with it. That was a good deflection attempt though. I'm gonna need them cited sources bruh bruh.

Give me the sources that say IQ is a real thing that can be accurately measured and reproduced anywhere near 100% of the time. It's not that I don't believe in IQ. I simply believe it is a measurement that is not an accurate representation on an individuals intelligence.

Again, I am aware of what IQ is. I want you to show me proof that it is reliable and accurate. Show me that the results of IQ tests are reproducible.

I love how you shrug off the responsibility of having to provide evidence for your massive claims and then call me ignorant.

Again, cite them sources bruh bruh.
 
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Brady

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It's quite obvious that IQ is genetic, but whether every child picks up their parents' intelligence is questionable. My dad is a math whiz and my mom is fairly decent, but I'm a total moron in regards to math. We can all conclude that not all races are equal, that's true without a doubt, but the idea of using racial theories for the sake of total hatred, destruction, and the furthering of toxic and self destructive identity politics is my problem with the alt-right.

If race can determine personality types, and intelligence, then even baser ties like family should be able to do the same or no?
 

kimb

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Fiji your literally saying since you can't prove your point on how empirically it's proven that a person's intelligence is capped genetically that the issue is with me not understanding. If I'm not understanding something and you do then prove your claim then. Because you just telling me to teach myself why your right if your right then you should be able to back it up with facts.

Also again your analogy is faulty again Einstein is who he is based on his accomplishments and that's why he's viewed gifted, I remember learning that in his early years Einstein actually had issue with schooling.

Also just a cursory Google search will show why iq isn't a reliable metric of intelligence or the factors in disparity when it comes to iq from many reputable scientific sources.

Also in your initial post you said that the effects of genetics and environment can range anywhere from 50 50 to 80 20. That doesn't show at all for one the certainty the impact or that genetics is a bigger factor.

And the nature versus nurture debate is a hotly contested issue till this day so how can you say there's a consensus.



If I got something wrong in this then prove your point.

You asked me to provide sources, I provided sources, then you claim I havent proven you wrong. Did you truly read through any of the sources I've provided? Of course you haven't; you're an incompetent dolt.

I cannot prove you wrong, I am not a psychologist, or an anthropologist. What I can do is provide the sources to credible professionals who actually put in years of work and research into their foundings to prove you wrong, which is arguably far better than posting irrelevant stories about how you were complete dunce throughout grade school. What you'd prefer is a pointless back and forth of two people giving their uninformed opinions on a topic as complex as I.Q., but Im not going to give it to you. Im not going to go down your moronic rabbit hole of endless backs and forths that lead to no where.

I made my arguments. I provided sources. Now address the evidence you asked for or dont bother responding. Unlike you, I dont have all day to spend my time arguing under an anime message board.

Lol you guys racially circle jerking each other with no real hard science to back you up:lol

Read my ****ing sources you imbecile.
 

Brady

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If IQ is determined by genetics and genetics are determined by environment, then clearly the gap of racial IQ can easily be mended.
 

Sagebee

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You asked me to provide sources, I provided sources, then you claim I havent proven you wrong. Did you truly read through any of the sources I've provided? Of course you haven't; you're an incompetent dolt.

I cannot prove you wrong, I am not a psychologist, or an anthropologist. What I can do is provide the sources to credible professionals who actually put in years of work and research into their foundings to prove you wrong, which is arguably far better than posting irrelevant stories about how you were complete dunce throughout grade school. What you'd prefer is a pointless back and forth of two people giving their uninformed opinions on a topic as complex as I.Q., but Im not going to give it to you. Im not going to go down your moronic rabbit hole of endless backs and forths that lead to no where.

I made my arguments. I provided sources. Now address the evidence you asked for or dont bother responding. Unlike you, I dont have all day to spend my time arguing under an anime message board.



Read my ****ing sources you imbecile.

Lol insults cute:lol really shows when a persons backed into a corner when called out on your bs you even admit in the bold you have no idea what your talking about but acting like you have certainty.

Looked over your sources first couple giving me definitions and none of the other sources either have to do or suggest that intelligence is capped. Or that genetics is predominant factor. The only argument posed for racial disparity in intelligence is studies with iq tests you posted which doesn't come close to proving that racial iq disparity is based on genetics.

The issue with you guys is you act like your intellectuals and know what your talking about but you guys don't know what your talking about that's why you can't even pose an argument just make a claim. And your world view is just held together by just blind belief of what someone else said that's why you can't explain it and blindly post sources and when it's challenged you and your arguements easily breakdown because you don't know what your even saying.

You want to rebuttal it's up to you but you've made it clear you have no idea what your talking about and I say that respectfully. And learn to humble yourself if you care for dialogue and understanding.
 
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JStar King

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Racism and saying that your skin color defines how intelligent you are is fu*king retarded.

I've met dumb people, mostly friends, who were either white, Latino, or black. It doesn't matter.

Don't let your skin color define who you are. If anyone thinks they are superior because of their skin color, you are retarded and I feel sorry for you.

:lmao:
 
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Sagebee

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Racism and saying that your skin color defines how intelligent you are is fu*king retarded.

I've met dumb people, who were either white or black. It doesn't matter.

Don't let your skin color define who you are. If anyone thinks they are superior because of their skin color, you are retarded and I feel sorry for you.

:lmao:

Tbh giving them a fair chance to explain themselves proven it's just for them feel self importance or people from the right feign like they have some sort of intellectualism to their views. They act like they want honest discussion for even controversial issues but breakdown when people with common sense show they have no idea what they're talking about. Just a bunch a wannabe pseudo intellectuals.
 

Brady

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Racism and saying that your skin color defines how intelligent you are is fu*king retarded.

I've met dumb people, mostly friends, who were either white, Latino, or black. It doesn't matter.

Don't let your skin color define who you are. If anyone thinks they are superior because of their skin color, you are retarded and I feel sorry for you.

:lmao:

Race is more than skin color, and some races really are smarter than others academically. True intelligence is far deeper than academics but that's a discussion for another time.
 

JStar King

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Race is more than skin color, and some races really are smarter than others academically. True intelligence is far deeper than academics but that's a discussion for another time.

I've met smart and dumb people who were white and black. Don't let your skin color and genetic history define who you are.

Idiocy and intelligence comes in all colors.

:kk:
 

Avani 🥉

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An interesting reference that I recommend to you is Richard Lynn’s The Global Bell Curve: Race, IQ and Inequality Worldwide. Lynn shows that if you ignore natural resources like crude oil, the average IQ of states worldwide explain most of the variation in their economic performance.

Well if bell curve in mentioned then it also needs to be out there:



And Richard Lynn is a just a sophisticated racist. The supposed IQ data he used to calculate national IQ is very inadequate. He cherry picked convenient samples, and ignores to take many others factors in consideration when jumping to conclusions.

However it does flatters egos of people who are already in privileged groups around the world and the mindsets that romance with their colonial history.
 
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Pumpkin Ninja

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You are casting pearls before swine, my friend.

I have little to add to what you have said other than that the bolded statement, known as Lewontin’s fallacy in population genetics though here you seem to have applied it to population consequences of trait differences, is misleading, and that you underappreciate the consequences of the demographic trends in the US given that you accept scientific racial realism.

While the overlap between statistical distributions on any trait will mean that individuals of all types will exist in all populations, mean differences in distributions on traits that are important for modern, technological economies will have important consequences, most notably in the form of human capital.

An interesting reference that I recommend to you is Richard Lynn’s The Global Bell Curve: Race, IQ and Inequality Worldwide. Lynn shows that if you ignore natural resources like crude oil, the average IQ of states worldwide explain most of the variation in their economic performance.

And that is a hardly surprising finding.

Cognitive ability explains most of the variation in individual economic performance – it naturally follows that it will likewise explain the variation between groups of individuals in the form of states. Resource poor states like Japan and Korea show us that human capital, itself largely a function of cognitive ability, is the most important explanatory factor in the economic capacity of states.

Which is why the demographic trends in the US will have real and significant consequences. You are correct that a White ethno-state in the US is not feasible but as the US becomes Brazil in its demographic makeup, it will also approach it in social, economic and political standards. The same goes for western Europe, which will approach the Middle East in that regard, in the future.

Richard Lynn himself does not have any hope for the western world – however he is convinced that the East Asian states (Japan, Korea and China) will maintain themselves as ethno-states and that therefore modern, scientific and technological civilization will live on in them. Though I identify with the alt-right for the most part, the more I live, the more I find myself coming to a similar position.
TEH BRAZILIANS WILL RUSH TO TEH EAST LIKE ZOMBIES IN WAVES!!..

brate...
 

Edogawa

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An community's culture is really determined by the values and standard of living, which both have an effect on the other. For example, an individual might be living pretty well - has access to middle class services and so on, yet holds principles that are extreme which results in crime. I would link an examples of these to a particular ethnic group.

Black Americans constitute 12% of the US total population, yet commit almost 50% of crimes - how is that possible? Well, Black American culture places more emphasis on gang culture, so it's not a surprise that a phenomenon like that happens. Black Americans have access to a far better standard of living than other Africans around the world, yet are disproportionally criminals. Compare that to Black British people, who have access to a lesser living standard but on average achieve higher education and income. This is because Black British culture doesn't have gang culture to their Black American counterparts.

Islamic world has 25% of the world's population, yet barely constitute 2% of the world economy and technological output; how is that possible? Because Islamic culture doesn't put emphasis on democratic values and more on extremist ideals, hence why Muslims, on average, commit more terrorism and crimes than any other religious group. Compare those poor records to the Jews as an example. Jews are barely 1% of the world population, yet disproportionally dominate financial, media and scientific fields. It's not a surprise because Jewish principles put a stress on education than Muslims.

All of this reflects back to what I said: It's the culture of the community and not really genetics, even though IQ is inherited from family, but that is individually and can't possibly judge it to a community.
 

Lelouch Vii Britannia

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They Have little meaning, we all have the same organs, we breathe the same air, all those who look at these minor differences as an excuse to be a jerk is a dumbass that should not be taken seriously
 

kimb

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I'm not offended by your statements. I might even agree with some of them. However saying specific races have specific IQ thresholds is a massive thing to say and I'd need evidence to agree with it. That was a good deflection attempt though. I'm gonna need them cited sources bruh bruh.

Give me the sources that say IQ is a real thing that can be accurately measured and reproduced anywhere near 100% of the time. It's not that I don't believe in IQ. I simply believe it is a measurement that is not an accurate representation on an individuals intelligence.

Again, I am aware of what IQ is. I want you to show me proof that it is reliable and accurate. Show me that the results of IQ tests are reproducible.

I love how you shrug off the responsibility of having to provide evidence for your massive claims and then call me ignorant.

Again, cite them sources bruh bruh.


If youre looking for sources, Ive linked some under the first page of the thread.
 
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Fountain

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When Black crime is soaring, which it is, you say that blacks have low IQ's and are just prone to criminality but if one were to point out pedophilia and school shootings, maybe even the horrors of the past that whites committed on non-whites, it's brushed off like it doesn't define white people.

What a load of one sided hypocritical horseshit. You'd be better off doing your homework than posting shit on the internet.

Seems like a picking and choosing situation here.

Wich is exactly what you're doing.
 

kimb

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Well if bell curve in mentioned then it also needs to be out there:



And Richard Lynn is a just a sophisticated racist. The supposed IQ data he used to calculate national IQ is very inadequate. He cherry picked convenient samples, and ignores to take many others factors in consideration when jumping to conclusions.

However it does flatters egos of people who are already in privileged groups around the world and the mindsets that romance with their colonial history.

I think it would be fair to acknowledge that the author of that article suffers from extreme bias. Nicholas Lemann is a notorious neo-liberal with views that fall in line with the average progressive. He's written for the Atlantic, which is the leftist polar equivalent of the National review. This article is essentially a left leaning source calling Charles Murray's research too right leaning.

Lemann tried to discredit Murray's results as being miscalculated and being sourced incorrectly without actually addressing any miscalculations or errors in citation, so he fails in debunking the findings Murray presented in TBC. He's also being disingenous when he claims that liberal academia doesn't deny I.Q.; in todays age, the concept of the "human blank slate" is the mantra of liberals in sociological and psychological fields of academia. Although, I do agree with one of Lemann's criticisms, being that I.Q. is not the end all be all determinant of life success, and that socioeconomic factors (i.e. environment) do play a role in determining one's overall life success. And it would be impossible, or at least very difficult to determine whether or not those who represent the top 10% (He did not give a certain percentage, but the 10% mark is usually what people go by) being directly correlated to having higher I.Q., so I'll give Lemann that point.
 
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Avani 🥉

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I think it would be fair to acknowledge that the author of that article suffers from extreme bias. Nicholas Lemann is a notorious neo-liberal with views that fall in line with the average progressive. He's written for the Atlantic, which is the leftist polar equivalent of the National review. This article is essentially a left leaning source calling Charles Murray's research too right leaning.

Lemann tried to discredit Murray's results as being miscalculated and being sourced incorrectly without actually addressing any miscalculations or errors in citation, so he fails in debunking the findings Murray presented in TBC. He's also being disingenous when he claims that liberal academia doesn't deny I.Q.; in todays age, the concept of the "human blank slate" is the mantra of liberals in sociological and psychological fields of academia. Although, I do agree with one of Lemann's criticisms, being that I.Q. is not the end all be all determinant of life success, and that socioeconomic factors (i.e. environment) do play a role in determining one's overall life success. And it would be impossible, or at least very difficult to determine whether or not those who represent the top 10% (He did not give a certain percentage, but the 10% mark is usually what people go by) being directly correlated to having higher I.Q., so I'll give Lemann that point.

That's a strawman argument you know. And I gave the same reply to a leftist when he replied with that kind of wording - " oh that's a right wing historian". That was just one of the first source and in the end it only says :

Readers who accept The Bell Curve as tough-minded and realistic, and who assume that all criticism of it is ignorant and ideologically motivated, are not as far removed from Plato's cave as they might think.

Some criticism may be politically motivated but I find his point about it not being an academic book but self publishing theory pretty valid. This book is not an academic work and yet being used as such.

Both camps say they debunked others theory. So, have you actually checked out the details of the IQ samples and tried to determine validity of the assumptions made in this theory?
 
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JStar King

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What saddens me the most is that because I'm black, I'm generalized with the rest of the bunch who commit crime and kill each other over dumb reasons.

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I have heard it all before. It's the same thing with the Italians being looked down at, because a small percentage of their population have a mafia gangster culture.

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It's dumb. You can't blame others or base anyone else's intelligence level or personality because of what race or ethinic background are.
 
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