just becoz people like you try to compare kidomaru's jutsu to kaguya's ain't changing anything;you wankibg air palm and 64 palms as something godly when they are not isn't changing anything either
I wasn't comparing the ****ing strikes! I was comparing the reaction feats. Neji's reaction was that he was moving his head and his body to continuously dodge many projectiles while Sakura's reaction feat was that she leaped to evade
and I only said that the air palm can cause an instant death, and anything in the ****ing NV can. heck even a Shuriken or a Kunai. and I already said that it would have no effect on Sakura because she had Byakuguo.
and please.. don't tell me that Sakura's body movements is fast enough to dodge Neji's hand speed :lol
I wasn't comparing the ****ing strikes! I was comparing the reaction feats. Neji's reaction was that he was moving his head and his body to continuously dodge many projectiles while Sakura's reaction feat was that she leaped to evade
something far faster is that so hard for you to understand or comprehend
or is it hard for you to realise something whose speed was complemented by RSM naruto would be tiers about speed of daggers thrown by kidomaru
it is tbh
and I only said that the air palm can cause an instant death, and anything in the ****ing NV can. heck even a Shuriken or a Kunai.
your comprehension skills are zero and they are gonna remain zero since you keep thinking neji's speed while doing 64 palm is godly just like you were bullshitting how hinata is superfast since she can use 64 palms
you tend to overrate anything hyuga does
air palm cause instant death when it didn't
air palm wall destroys v3 becoz it pushed
twin lion fist drains chakra network other absorption jutsu's don't when they had been shown doing it
your repeated argument being neji never taking hits in fight and outmaneuvering opponents becoz he has skills is just stupidity on another tier
other stupid part being they dodge everything sakura does becoz they are ninja lmao
I remember when you said in this thread that "if Neji tried to evade, Sasuke would track his movements and nail him"
I just want to point out that this would not happen here since Sasuke w/ 2T and Lee's speed couldn't maneuver Naruto so he would not be able to do so with Neji. and Chidori is just a linear attack once Neji dodge it then it is simply over
That's trash logic, because Naruto didn't try to evade. :lol Neji also can't dodge Chidori so this point was irrelevant for you to bring up.
CE Neji has the ability to release Chakra from all his tenketsu and control it since he mastered kaiten [
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]. All SRA Neji did against Kido was release Chakra widely which CE Neji could already do even if on a smaller scale. This scan proves that CE Neji is able to expel Chakra to a wide range similar to SRA.
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he can use this wide arc of chakra to increase his reaction
Nope. This is CE Neji, not SRA Neji. Prove that CE Neji had the mastery to emit that much chakra or stop posting. Pretty pathetic that you want to have Neji win so badly that you are giving him feats that a much superior version of himself showed off. What's next? Neji can use Air Palm because he "meets all the requirements"? Lmao. Just stop.
it is not the only factor but it is still a big factor. because the more skilled you are in Taijutsu the better you are in striking and grappling, and the better you are in grappling, the easier for you to apply maneuvers/counters to an opponent to gain a physical advantage in hand to hand combat
But it's not the only one so you can stop now. If all you can do is make comparisons that ignore speed just because you want to wank Neji then you'll never have a point here. Ever.
and how does that prove that Lee's w/o weights is faster than CE Kn0 Naruto ?
What Sasuke and Lee did is superior to what Naruto did. FAct.
-Lee w/o weights is fast enough to blitz Gaara and evade his sand shield. but Lee w/o weights canonically needed Ura Renge in order to beat a Neji w/o Kaiten in Taijutsu.
-Neji didn't need Kaiten to beat Lee who already knew how open the first gate which greatly enhances combat speed , then it means Prelims Neji at best could physically react well enough to
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, which means that Prelims Neji's reaction and reflex in CQC would have to be at a decent level in order to beat Lee enhanced by initial lotus w/o Kaiten as that Lee would be obviously much faster than his Base self in every way
Also irrelevant because you've yet to show how Naruto forcing Neji to use Kaiten is a feat Lee is unable to replicate. The only thing that was stated is that Lee needs Ura Renge to defeat Neji, meaning Neji can react well enough to touch Lee. Not that someone fast enough to force Neji to spin (which is more time consuming than simply countering via hand to hand) can defeat him in Taijutsu.
-Sasuke is just as fast as Base Lee w/o 1st Gate. CE Neji is superior to Prelims Neji who could react well enough to 1st Gate Lee's enhanced combat attack speed good enough to not get outperformed in Taijutsu w/o Kaiten and to always easily dominate him to the point of believing Lee stood zero chance.
Irrelevant for the reasons explained above and in this last post.
-Neji's reflexes and striking speed was hyped by Kakashi and Hiruzen , then Gai and Lee cements it that prelims Neji would easily react to and counter any Taijutsu tech from Lee bar Ura renge w/o Kaiten.
Are you kidding me? :lol Did Neji react to Naruto? Yes. He reacted to him w/ a technique that takes far more effort and time than simply countering in hand to hand. Thus you do not have a point. How many times do I need to say this before you get it through your head?
I didn't say that Naruto countered Neji's striking speed. the point is that Lee needed Ura renge to beat Neji since Neji would be able to counter his speed with his reflexes and striking speed. and since all neji needs is a slight touch. so the key to defeat Neji w/o Kaiten was a speed combo that can't be touched.
Which doesn't prove your point. Start reading before you reply. :lol If Naruto didn't counter Neji's striking speed then saying his feat is better than what Lee did against Gaara is based on literally nothing.
if what you said was true. if Lee w/o weights was faster or as fast as CE Kurama enhanced Naruto then Lee wouldn't even needed the Gates to defeat Neji w/o Kaiten. since one fast kick or strike would send him flying
If Lee tried to strike or kick him even at top speed then Neji would block and retaliate with the Gentle Fist. Why in the hell would he be sent flying to an attack he can react to and block? :lol What was stated is that Neji>>Base Lee in Taijutsu. All you need to be able to defeat someone in Taijutsu is to be able to react to their hits and to be capable of landing your own.
CE Kn0 Naruto dashed so fast to the point that Neji, even with his reflexes and striking speed, could not counter, and was forced to release Chakra
Lmao. 3 posts, a million paragraphs and you FINALLY address the argument at hand. Too bad the bold is 100% wrong. Neji needed Rotation because that is the only thing that could block Naruto's attack. If you decide to read that scan and not just the parts that have Neji on it you'd know that Naruto released a giant amount of chakra to aid in his attack. If Neji had tried to take that on w/o defending himself he would've been ran over.
So no. Neji didn't need Kaiten because of his speed. He needed Kaiten because of his power. However Neji didn't complete Kaiten and THAT is because of Naruto's speed. Speed that is inferior to Sasuke or Lee's by feats.
Agreed. but I think that he caught Neji off guard . I mean just look to the bottom left panel where Naruto's Chakra flares up and also look at Neji in the same panel.
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then look at the following scan where Neji is shown with an exclamation mark to show his surprise on the upper right panel here.
Surprise doesn't indicate being caught off guard. He knew Naruto's speed increased from clashing with him earlier. He was surprised that Naruto released that much power in the first place. This is not an excuse at all btw
Maybe if you are delusional. :lol Oh wait. You are. :lol
again just why he wouldn't be able to dodge it ?
Neji can react to Lee's w/o weights striking speed let alone 1st gate enhanced Lee. meaning he can dodge/counter his strikes, so he would be able to do so with Sasuke whose striking speed is just a copy-paste of base Lee's.
Being able to react to someone's strikes doesn't translate to being able to dodge them. You really need to stop with this BS and learn how to read, and stop stretching one conclusion to mean another thing.
Neji had the reflexes, skills, reaction speed to easily dominate base Lee w/o the weights and Lee clearly stated that he needed Ura renge to defeat him. so he would be at least be able to dodge Chidori (a palm thrust with few extra inches of reach) and counter it.
Fanfiction. What was shown is that Neji during the Chuunin Exams releases a small amount of chakra right before he uses Rotation. Anything else is a feat from a SUPERIOR version of Neji.
also he doesn't even need to dodge it to counter it. he can just grab Sasuke's arm (the same way Kakashi did) and channeling some Jyuken to disable it
Prove that Neji is on par with Kakashi or don't go on anymore about how Neji can counter since you want to start giving NEJI HYUGA the feats of KAKASHI. That simple.
Neji simply sending Jyuken through the Chakra networking running through the arm is enough to destabilize Chidori. Like what he did when he sent Chakra from his finger through Hinata's headband all the way to multiple organs with a single finger touch not even directly on the areas the organs were located.
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He doesn't need multiple hits as this same thing can happen to the network streams running through the arm. It doesn't even matter because a palm touch would have a similar result.
but this method only disrupt the Jutsu but the enemy would still be able to channel Chakra to his hands. but blocking Chakra points is another story since it stops the Chakra flow . disabling the hand completely.
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but Neji doesn't need to block the Chakra points here since he can just inject Chakra through the Chakra streams in Sasuke's arm to destabilize Chidori along with causing internal damage and GG Sasuke
This only works if Neji can touch Sasuke, which you've been unable to prove. But if he could I'll agree that he can disable Chidori, temporarily obviously.
Lmao you can tell this guy has been pushed into a corner. Now he's making excuses like "Gaara's Sand isn't fast", "What Naruto did is superior cause he made Neji use Rotation" (What? :lol), "CE Neji can replicate SRA Neji's feats". I find this one extremely hilarious because just a few pages back these fanboys were going on about how CE Sasuke can't use Chidori how VoTE Sasuke uses it despite him meeting all the requirements, but somehow just because Neji meets all the requirements he can utilize his feats from a superior version of himself. The double standards are appalling.
Spare me the BS. VoTE Sasuke>>>SRA Neji>2-T Sasuke>Every from of Neji that isn't from SRA.
lol more insults. I was being genuine when I stated this. Look its a discussion thread. Nothing wrong with having your mind changed if your perspective on what you believe was changed. Kudos to you I already stated "I LOSE" as its no point going back and forth. At this point both sides are convinced on their decision so why continue on?
lol more insults. I was being genuine when I stated this. Look its a discussion thread. Nothing wrong with having your mind changed if your perspective on what you believe was changed. Kudos to you I already stated "I LOSE" as its no point going back and forth. At this point both sides are convinced on their decision so why continue on?
Then stop bringing irrelevant stuffs.you are the one that brought scan of me saying CE neji beats ce sasuke to act like a smartass without actually reading my initial post on this thread :lol
Then stop bringing irrelevant stuffs.you are the one that brought scan of me saying CE neji beats ce sasuke to act like a smartass without actually reading my initial post on this thread :lol
Nope. This is CE Neji, not SRA Neji. Prove that CE Neji had the mastery to emit that much chakra or stop posting. Pretty pathetic that you want to have Neji win so badly that you are giving him feats that a much superior version of himself showed off. What's next? Neji can use Air Palm because he "meets all the requirements"? Lmao. Just stop.
>I asked you for evidence that proves that Lee w/o weights is faster
>you brought up reacting to Gaara's sand
>I asked for evidence that proves that Gaara's sand is fast
>you said that Lee needed remove the weights off in order to blitz him
okay how does that prove that Lee's speed is superior ?
also unlike Lee's speed, Neji did acknowledge Kurama enhanced Naruto's speed
But it's not the only one so you can stop now. If all you can do is make comparisons that ignore speed just because you want to wank Neji then you'll never have a point here. Ever.
if you are skilled, you can counter and maneuver your opponent strikes and that what Neji needs to do here
Also irrelevant because you've yet to show how Naruto forcing Neji to use Kaiten is a feat Lee is unable to replicate. The only thing that was stated is that Lee needs Ura Renge to defeat Neji, meaning Neji can react well enough to touch Lee. Not that someone fast enough to force Neji to spin (which is more time consuming than simply countering via hand to hand) can defeat him in Taijutsu.
If Lee tried to strike or kick him even at top speed then Neji would block and retaliate with the Gentle Fist. Why in the hell would he be sent flying to an attack he can react to and block? :lol What was stated is that Neji>>Base Lee in Taijutsu. All you need to be able to defeat someone in Taijutsu is to be able to react to their hits and to be capable of landing your own.
you agreed that if Lee tried to kick or strike Prelims Neji even at top speed then Neji would have the reflexes to Block and retaliate w/Gentle fist to end him. But what you are failing to consider is that Lee w/1st Gate opened >>Lee at top speed w/o weights in combat speed , meaning Prelims Neji has the reflexes to react to and physically counter a version of Lee who has much quicker attack and combo speed than his Base self which is = to Sasuke's attack speed.
If Prelims Neji can react to and best a speed that earned praise from the likes of Kimimaro when performed by a Lee fresh from surgery and battle [
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], then I don't see why Lee's Base level of attack speed with a Chidori in hand would be unavoidable to CE Neji who is superior to Prelims who himself could already deal with much faster combat speeds in the form of a Lee w/1st Gate opened.
An inferior Neji is fast enough to react to and deal with Lee's opening attack with the 1st Gate. Lee w/1st Gate>>>Base Lee , if Neji is fast enough to put up physical Blocks and counters to a much quicker Lee , then he'd clearly be fast enough to pull off much better physical defensive maneuvers against a Base Lee , who is = to Sasuke in attack speed
Surprise doesn't indicate being caught off guard. He knew Naruto's speed increased from clashing with him earlier. He was surprised that Naruto released that much power in the first place. This is not an excuse at all btw
The fact is that Naruto releasing that much Chakra was a completely unexpected occurrence for Neji who only saw him dashing towards him without any form of attack only to flare up a Crazy Shield of Chakra while simultaneously dashing forward at full might.
Neji then quickly had to resort to Kaiten but he quickly estimated that the Distance in relation to Naruto after the sudden release of Chakra was too close for a fast enough spin which is why he was forced to defend the way he did
Prove that Neji is on par with Kakashi or don't go on anymore about how Neji can counter since you want to start giving NEJI HYUGA the feats of KAKASHI. That simple.
he doesn't need to be on par with Kakashi to do it. if he had the requirement (reflex, reaction speed, skills, hand speed) then he would be able to do it
This only works if Neji can touch Sasuke, which you've been unable to prove. But if he could I'll agree that he can disable Chidori, temporarily obviously.
Blaze always fapping Sakura then claims he isn't a Sakura fan lmao. How many times have you brought her up out of no where in VS threads that have nothing to do with her? You're literally always derailing threads VS threads like this.
Neji > Sakura. Footspeed isn't doing jack when Neji has already proven that superior speed means nothing to his taijutsu.
Blaze always fapping Sakura then claims he isn't a Sakura fan lmao. How many times have you brought her up out of no where in VS threads that have nothing to do with her? You're literally always derailing threads VS threads like this.
Neji > Sakura. Footspeed isn't doing jack when Neji has already proven that superior speed means nothing to his taijutsu.
Oh saying sakura beats neji is sakura fapping and this coming from a tard who claimed hiashi beats madara and neji beats kakuzu along with hinata beating deva with prep time.Irony
Oh me telling someone that his point that he made was wrong when it was an asinine point as your posts is wrong but you blaberring inbetween every debate with shitposts that are blatant ignorance of manga isn't
Oh yeah becoz footspeed was exactly the thing that neji was struggling again kyuubi enhanced naruto
But then again the same guy who claimed 5 y.o tsunade's strength >sakura's is trying prove something is laughable when can't accept his ass is biased whenever sakura is brought by trying to downplay here.
And calling others fapboy when I NVR claimed sakura beats deva while this troll has claimed hinata beats him lmao
Then stop bringing irrelevant stuffs.you are the one that brought scan of me saying CE neji beats ce sasuke to act like a smartass without actually reading my initial post on this thread :lol
Uh, no. That scan shows the regular radius of his Rotation. There is no "widening the radius". Any and all feats from later on are irrelevant. What CE Neji can do is what he showed during the Chunnin Exams and before. End of story. This is another excuse that you are making because you have realized that your initial argument is flawed.
>I asked you for evidence that proves that Lee w/o weights is faster
>you brought up reacting to Gaara's sand
>I asked for evidence that proves that Gaara's sand is fast
>you said that Lee needed remove the weights off in order to blitz him
okay how does that prove that Lee's speed is superior ?
also unlike Lee's speed, Neji did acknowledge Kurama enhanced Naruto's speed
Stop playing dumb. Lee is the fastest out of the Genin even w/ weights on yet he was still too slow for Gaara's sand. Lee is considered fast by Genin standards thus by Genin standards Gaara's Sand is fast. That is undeniable fact right there. Meanwhile you can't give me any feat from Naruto besides Neji reacting to his speed as a speed feat. :lol Even though that's barely a notable speed fear because Neji actually reacted.
Stop being dumb. Neji said "his speed increased". He didn't say that he's fast or that he's too fast for him. :lol
if you are skilled, you can counter and maneuver your opponent strikes and that what Neji needs to do here
Skill isn't the only factor. Like I said stop playing dumb. We've been over this. When you can prove Neji's superiority in all factors to the point where what you say becomes possible then you can make this point.
you agreed that if Lee tried to kick or strike Prelims Neji even at top speed then Neji would have the reflexes to Block and retaliate w/Gentle fist to end him. But what you are failing to consider is that Lee w/1st Gate opened >>Lee at top speed w/o weights in combat speed , meaning Prelims Neji has the reflexes to react to and physically counter a version of Lee who has much quicker attack and combo speed than his Base self which is = to Sasuke's attack speed.
No. 1st Gate Lee is not >>> Base Lee in speed. Where are you getting this from? Don't make shit up and expect anyone to agree. What is shown is that 1st Gate Lee is superior to Base Lee, not by a large amount. Again, being able to react to someone=/=Being able to evade someone=/=Being able to counter someone. Thus you do not have a point unless you are going to show me the speed feats that let Neji evade a top speed charge from Sasuke.
Then we also have the fact that being able to block and react to someone's strikes within close combat is a different feat entirely from evading a top speed charge simply because one doesn't move at top speed during hand to hand exchanges. They aren't even running. They are simply punching and blocking. But I fully expect you to find more ridiculous ways to reinvent logic to support your case.
If Prelims Neji can react to and best a speed that earned praise from the likes of Kimimaro when performed by a Lee fresh from surgery and battle [
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], then I don't see why Lee's Base level of attack speed with a Chidori in hand would be unavoidable to CE Neji who is superior to Prelims who himself could already deal with much faster combat speeds in the form of a Lee w/1st Gate opened.
This doesn't even begin to make sense. What you are saying is "since Prelims Neji can react to a speed that earned praise from Kimi, he should be able to avoid a similar speed from someone who also has the Sharingan just because CE Neji is superior by an unquantifiable amount".
Then we have you trying to wank the shit out of the 1st Gate even though nothing in this Manga implies that the difference in physical ability between the 1st Gate and the Base state to be very large. Only thing you know is that the 1st Gate is superior. Don't add details that were never mentioned. The only times any Gate has given any large boost in speed is when you go above the 3rd one.
An inferior Neji is fast enough to react to and deal with Lee's opening attack with the 1st Gate. Lee w/1st Gate>>>Base Lee , if Neji is fast enough to put up physical Blocks and counters to a much quicker Lee , then he'd clearly be fast enough to pull off much better physical defensive maneuvers against a Base Lee , who is = to Sasuke in attack speed
Nope. No correlation whatsoever. Being able to defeat a faster person in Taijutsu doesn't mean that you can evade the top speed of the slower person.
The fact is that Naruto releasing that much Chakra was a completely unexpected occurrence for Neji who only saw him dashing towards him without any form of attack only to flare up a Crazy Shield of Chakra while simultaneously dashing forward at full might.
Neji then quickly had to resort to Kaiten but he quickly estimated that the Distance in relation to Naruto after the sudden release of Chakra was too close for a fast enough spin which is why he was forced to defend the way he did
Lmao. Stop making these ridiculous excuses. It's like you find a new excuse to make every post.
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Naruto had just started dashing at Neji when he released his chakra. Neji was surprised because Naruto released so much power. Neji was not caught off guard. Surprise is not off guard. Neji's reaction was how it was because Naruto was too fast. End of story. You're only making this new excuse now because you've realized that your argument for this Naruto being faster than Sasuke and Lee is based on literally nothing that makes sense.
he doesn't need to be on par with Kakashi to do it. if he had the requirement (reflex, reaction speed, skills, hand speed) then he would be able to do it
Oh saying sakura beats neji is sakura fapping and this coming from a tard who claimed hiashi beats madara and neji beats kakuzu along with hinata beating deva with prep time.Irony
Oh me telling someone that his point that he made was wrong when it was an asinine point as your posts is wrong but you blaberring inbetween every debate with shitposts that are blatant ignorance of manga isn't
Oh yeah becoz footspeed was exactly the thing that neji was struggling again kyuubi enhanced naruto
But then again the same guy who claimed 5 y.o tsunade's strength >sakura's is trying prove something is laughable when can't accept his ass is biased whenever sakura is brought by trying to downplay here.
And calling others fapboy when I NVR claimed sakura beats deva while this troll has claimed hinata beats him lmao
Uh, no. That scan shows the regular radius of his Rotation. There is no "widening the radius". Any and all feats from later on are irrelevant. What CE Neji can do is what he showed during the Chunnin Exams and before. End of story. This is another excuse that you are making because you have realized that your initial argument is flawed.
the released Chakra alone is enough to block the attacks, the spinning is just to blast them away
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"right before the attack lands, he releases a large amount of Chakra from Chakra openings throughout his body"
"this stops the enemy's attack"
just like when Neji released a thin layer of Chakra on his chin to tank Naruto's punch
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Neji here have just released a wide area of Chakra w/o spinning to repel TenTen's attacks.
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he didn't spin otherwise there would be a crater under his feats like this [
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],[
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]
and No I am not saying that it would block Chidori. what I am basically saying that it would enhances Neji's reaction
Stop playing dumb. Lee is the fastest out of the Genin even w/ weights on yet he was still too slow for Gaara's sand. Lee is considered fast by Genin standards thus by Genin standards Gaara's Sand is fast. That is undeniable fact right there. Meanwhile you can't give me any feat from Naruto besides Neji reacting to his speed as a speed feat. :lol Even though that's barely a notable speed fear because Neji actually reacted.
Stop being dumb. Neji said "his speed increased". He didn't say that he's fast or that he's too fast for him. :lol
Correct. but Neji could easily react and counter Lee's striking speed meanwhile he couldn't with Naruto. and it is true that the reason he could not with Naruto was because that Naruto's attack was much more powerful than base Lee's.
even if Lee's striking speed is equal to Naruto's, and even if base Lee's striking speed is fast enough to the point that Neji would not be able to evade..
that doesn't mean that he would not be able to maneuver/counter his top speed attacks
Chidori is just a palm thrust with lighting that adds a few inches of reach covering the palm, so it is no way near powerful as Naruto's strike meaning that Neji would still be able to counter it
Skill isn't the only factor. Like I said stop playing dumb. We've been over this. When you can prove Neji's superiority in all factors to the point where what you say becomes possible then you can make this point.
but skills is still a big factor when it comes to maneuvers/counterattacks in hand to hand combat as I explained before.
and Chidori is just a palm thrust with a few extra inches of reach so Neji would be able to counter it by grabbing his hand similar to what Kakashi did. and he should be able to do it since he could counter a superior top speed attacks from Lee w/ 1st Gate
No. 1st Gate Lee is not >>> Base Lee in speed. Where are you getting this from? Don't make shit up and expect anyone to agree. What is shown is that 1st Gate Lee is superior to Base Lee, not by a large amount. Again, being able to react to someone=/=Being able to evade someone=/=Being able to counter someone. Thus you do not have a point unless you are going to show me the speed feats that let Neji evade a top speed charge from Sasuke.
Then we also have the fact that being able to block and react to someone's strikes within close combat is a different feat entirely from evading a top speed charge simply because one doesn't move at top speed during hand to hand exchanges. They aren't even running. They are simply punching and blocking. But I fully expect you to find more ridiculous ways to reinvent logic to support your case.
The 1st Gate pushes Lee's body close to his Base limits. Base Lee only uses 20% of his muscle power normally , with the 1st Gate active he's using close to 100% while pushing the body close to its limits which is obviously a substantial increase no matter how you try to twist it
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Prelims Neji would first have to mentally and physically react to 1st Gated Lee's initial strike from anywhere , well enough to not get hit since Lee would try to use blinding speed like he always does followed by the initial laser sharp attack.
No reason to believe base Lee(Sasuke) running straight at full speed would be much faster than a enhanced Lee who has about 30 to 40% superior movement speed compared to Base especially when you consider that the distance where Neji would need to react to Lee would be extremely close with attacks that can come from any side or direction which Neji would have to cleanly react to.
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This doesn't even begin to make sense. What you are saying is "since Prelims Neji can react to a speed that earned praise from Kimi, he should be able to avoid a similar speed from someone who also has the Sharingan just because CE Neji is superior by an unquantifiable amount".
What I am saying is that since Prelims Neji can react to a speed that earned praise from Kimi, he should be able to avoid a slower attack speed since Lee with the Gate active would clearly attack faster than himself w/o it which is equal to Sasuke's speed. The secret of Chidori's is in the speed at which the user is moving, followed by the launching of the attack which is based on attack speed equal to Base Lee's but inferior to Gated Lee's which Prelims Neji can clearly react to much less CE
Nope. No correlation whatsoever. Being able to defeat a faster person in Taijutsu doesn't mean that you can evade the top speed of the slower person.
if Neji could react to him and defeat him. then doesn't that means that he managed to evade his attacks or at least counter it ? even if Neji would not be able to evade the strike he should at least be able to couter it. which he can since he could counter the top speed attacks of a faster opponent
Lmao. Stop making these ridiculous excuses. It's like you find a new excuse to make every post.
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Naruto had just started dashing at Neji when he released his chakra. Neji was surprised because Naruto released so much power. Neji was not caught off guard. Surprise is not off guard. Neji's reaction was how it was because Naruto was too fast. End of story. You're only making this new excuse now because you've realized that your argument for this Naruto being faster than Sasuke and Lee is based on literally nothing that makes sense.
Neji was caught off-guard by Naruto's release of Chakra because he saw Naruto coming to him , then suddenly a Chakra ram attack came out of nowhere. Against CE Sasuke this wouldn't be an issue due to Sasuke needing to be at a safe distance from Neji in order to prep Chidori , then w/Byakugan Neji can gauge Chidori and see that its dangerous then make sure to put up his guard long beforehand
Yes , the first Gate increase power to the level where it can perform all phsycally demanding feats at increased speed.
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It enhances the base speed and enables the user to perform attacks at a much faster rate.
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Which is why using That level of high speed attacks puts a strain on Lee's body because the increase in muscle power and obviously attack speed is what puts a huge strain on the body.
Learn to read
the amount of chakra the user can access after removing the limiter from brain allows him to a series of grueling and demanding task at an incredible speed pushing the body to the limits of safety and beyond
incredible speed is just his base speed.There is no increase in speed.
TAIJUTSU; Omote Renge (Front Lotus)
User: Rock Lee
Offensive; Close range; Rank: B
Main text
After the shedding of much blood, sweat and tears, Lee mastered this kinjutsu. To use only "to protect someone precious to you", says his master Guy. For starters, he tosses the enemy high in the air, pushing them with an upwards kick from below, and tailing them with the Kage Buyou* movement technique. Then he captures them, wrapping bandages around them in midair. He holds the enemy tightly in his arms, adds a spinning motion, and plummets headfirst, straight to the ground. The reasons why Lee can use this ultra-high level, special taijutsu is none else than his off-the-charts speed and his thorough understanding of taijutsu's ABCs.
Captions
-Blossoming on the ground, stands a one-hit-kill flower!!
-A prohibited art that won't allow for inertia!!
Picture comments
-He prepares Omote Renge with a kick. From there, the higher the enemy goes, the more powerful it gets.
-Then, he falls at high speed. He won't even give the slightest of pauses to the enemy...!
what either of the lotus requires is strength and thats what the first 3 gates provide him [
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The first gate increases strength to 100% and allows the user to use omote renge
the second revitalises him and increases strength
third turns his skin red and allows him to use ura renge
Which is why using That level of high speed attacks puts a strain on Lee's body because the increase in muscle power and obviously attack speed is what puts a huge strain on the body.
Stop making stuff up. There doesn't need to be a crater everytime Rotation is used.
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Stop giving SRA Neji's feats to CE Neji.
Correct. but Neji could easily react and counter Lee's striking speed meanwhile he couldn't with Naruto. and it is true that the reason he could not with Naruto was because that Naruto's attack was much more powerful than base Lee's.
even if Lee's striking speed is equal to Naruto's, and even if base Lee's striking speed is fast enough to the point that Neji would not be able to evade..
that doesn't mean that he would not be able to maneuver/counter his top speed attacks
Chidori is just a palm thrust with lighting that adds a few inches of reach covering the palm, so it is no way near powerful as Naruto's strike meaning that Neji would still be able to counter it
Makes zero sense. You say that since it's not as powerful as Naruto's strike he can counter it yet you've failed to prove that he's fast enough to do so.
but skills is still a big factor when it comes to maneuvers/counterattacks in hand to hand combat as I explained before.
and Chidori is just a palm thrust with a few extra inches of reach so Neji would be able to counter it by grabbing his hand similar to what Kakashi did. and he should be able to do it since he could counter a superior top speed attacks from Lee w/ 1st Gate
Skills being a big factor doesn't mean it's the only factor. That simple. Stop addressing the point when you aren't adding anything new. Neji being able to counter it by grabbing his hand is something you've made up without properly supporting it. What was stated is that he can defeat 1st Gate Lee in Taijutsu, meaning he can react well enough to touch him. THAT. IS. IT. Stop drawing other conclusions based on incomplete info. Nothing but conjecture.
The 1st Gate pushes Lee's body close to his Base limits. Base Lee only uses 20% of his muscle power normally , with the 1st Gate active he's using close to 100% while pushing the body close to its limits which is obviously a substantial increase no matter how you try to twist it
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Prelims Neji would first have to mentally and physically react to 1st Gated Lee's initial strike from anywhere , well enough to not get hit since Lee would try to use blinding speed like he always does followed by the initial laser sharp attack.
That's 20% of the brain to 100% of the brain, not a 5x boost to all physical stats. :lol Stop. Like I said Lee's speed has only dramatically increased when using Gates 3+.
No reason to believe base Lee(Sasuke) running straight at full speed would be much faster than a enhanced Lee who has about 30 to 40% superior movement speed compared to Base especially when you consider that the distance where Neji would need to react to Lee would be extremely close with attacks that can come from any side or direction which Neji would have to cleanly react to.
Doesn't matter because Neji being able to react has nothing to do with Neji being able to counter.
What I am saying is that since Prelims Neji can react to a speed that earned praise from Kimi, he should be able to avoid a slower attack speed since Lee with the Gate active would clearly attack faster than himself w/o it which is equal to Sasuke's speed. The secret of Chidori's is in the speed at which the user is moving, followed by the launching of the attack which is based on attack speed equal to Base Lee's but inferior to Gated Lee's which Prelims Neji can clearly react to much less CE
Stop it. I know exactly what you are saying and it's irrelevant until you can show how being able to REACT to 1st Gate Lee's attacks in CQC= Dodging Base Lee's top speed.
if Neji could react to him and defeat him. then doesn't that means that he managed to evade his attacks or at least counter it ? even if Neji would not be able to evade the strike he should at least be able to couter it. which he can since he could counter the top speed attacks of a faster opponent
No, it means he reacted well enough to touch him. 1 Touch=Major damage due to Gentle Fist. :lol You don't need to be able to counter and dodge someone to beat them in close combat. That's nonsense. Did Naruto and Sasuke do any of this during Part 1? No. Blocking and punching are the fundamentals and that's how most hand to hand fights are settled.
And the bold is more nonsense you made up. This will continue to drag on until you admit that you don't know what you are talking about.
Neji was caught off-guard by Naruto's release of Chakra because he saw Naruto coming to him , then suddenly a Chakra ram attack came out of nowhere. Against CE Sasuke this wouldn't be an issue due to Sasuke needing to be at a safe distance from Neji in order to prep Chidori , then w/Byakugan Neji can gauge Chidori and see that its dangerous then make sure to put up his guard long beforehand
Irrelevant. Neji wasn't caught off guard. Repeating what I've already addressed doesn't help your point. Stop making these excuses and start arguing like you have common sense. Naruto didn't cross any significant distance before he released his power against Neji. Naruto was simply TOO FAST. End of story.
Oh yeah, and Kakashi is a user of the 1st Gate, yet he only uses it when he's training. So that should tell you how large the difference is between it and Base when talking on a grander scale. Definitely not as significant as you are pointing out. I also liked how you ignored this:
Example: People like Tsunade and Suigetsu can react to Ay
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while in CQC, but if Ay were to Shunshin and punch they'd both be blitzed like Minato would've been had Minato been
So why does Neji being able to react to Base Lee in Taijutsu mean that he can evade a top speed charge from Base Lee/Sasuke? Even though Naruto was able to force him to use Rotation, or rather he made it so that Neji couldn't evade only block. :lol Nothing but biased double standards is why you and others think this. And no, I'm not saying that Sasuke would blitz Neji so I don't want anyone to claim that BS. If you don't understand then just say so. No need to make shit up.
If I was using your logic then Suigetsu should easily react to and block Ay's punch regardless of Ay using Shunshin or not just because he can react to Ay's striking speed. Manga has shown that this line of thinking does not work. Thus you can't say 'Neji reacted to this, thus he easily evades or even worse, grabs Sasuke's hand mid attack'. What's worse is that the latter has only been shown as capable by people w/ high levels of speed and reflexes in combination with skill, i.e. Itachi and Kakashi.
I also noticed how you haven't addressed anything regarding CE Naruto vs. CE Sasuke in speed. So once again, if Neji couldn't avoid a mid range top speed dash from Naruto he's not avoiding a mid range top speed dash from Sasuke. Naruto isn't so far above Weightless Lee that this fact will change. He literally has zero feats to support such. On top of your arguments for Neji being able to dodge, or counter, being pretty weak I think it's obvious who wins this fight. None of this even includes the Curse Mark either.
you have this point. but that doesn't change the fact that he is able to cover himself with Chakra. maybe not on the same scale as SRA Neji. but he can still release Chakra all around himself but on a smaller scale to enhance his reaction
and here is the prove that he can do it. first, Rotation have two stages as explained by Tenten. the first stage is where the user is releasing Chakra to block the enemy's attack, and the second stage where the user spin to blast them
CE Neji can just perform the first stage which is basically releasing Chakra w/o spinning
-That's 20% of the brain to 100% of the brain, not a 5x boost to all physical stats. :lol Stop. Like I said Lee's speed has only dramatically increased when using Gates 3+.
-Oh yeah, and Kakashi is a user of the 1st Gate, yet he only uses it when he's training. So that should tell you how large the difference is between it and Base when talking on a grander scale. Definitely not as significant as you are pointing out. I also liked how you ignored this:
-No, it means he reacted well enough to touch him. 1 Touch=Major damage due to Gentle Fist. :lol You don't need to be able to counter and dodge someone to beat them in close combat. That's nonsense. Did Naruto and Sasuke do any of this during Part 1? No. Blocking and punching are the fundamentals and that's how most hand to hand fights are settled.
-If I was using your logic then Suigetsu should easily react to and block Ay's punch regardless of Ay using Shunshin or not just because he can react to Ay's striking speed. Manga has shown that this line of thinking does not work. Thus you can't say 'Neji reacted to this, thus he easily evades or even worse, grabs Sasuke's hand mid attack'. What's worse is that the latter has only been shown as capable by people w/ high levels of speed and reflexes in combination with skill, i.e. Itachi and Kakashi.
-What was stated is that he can defeat 1st Gate Lee in Taijutsu, meaning he can react well enough to touch him. THAT. IS. IT. Stop drawing other conclusions based on incomplete info. Nothing but conjecture.
if Lee w/ 1st Gate was going to fight Neji then he obviously is not going to try to engage in CQC since one touch from Neji would end the game. he is going to try a top speed charge to defeat him. the reason he needed Ura renge
and Neji obviously is not going to block a top speed attack from Lee w/ 1st Gate even with the gentle fist. since once Lee's top speed attacks make contact. Neji would be sent flying away. the only logical reason to Neji's superiority was that he was able to dodge or at least counter Lee's top speed attacks
I also noticed how you haven't addressed anything regarding CE Naruto vs. CE Sasuke in speed. So once again, if Neji couldn't avoid a mid range top speed dash from Naruto he's not avoiding a mid range top speed dash from Sasuke. Naruto isn't so far above Weightless Lee that this fact will change. He literally has zero feats to support such. On top of your arguments for Neji being able to dodge, or counter, being pretty weak I think it's obvious who wins this fight. None of this even includes the Curse Mark either.
>I said first that Naruto was so fast to the point that Neji was not able to counter so CE Kn0 Naruto > Lee in speed
>you said that the reason that Neji was not able to counter was because that Naruto's attack was so powerful and not because of speed
so I agreed that Lee's speed = Naruto's so Neji would not be able to dodge here but that doesn't mean that he would not be able to counter since neither Lee or Sasuke's top speed attacks are near the power of Naruto's strike
Skills being a big factor doesn't mean it's the only factor. That simple. Stop addressing the point when you aren't adding anything new. Neji being able to counter it by grabbing his hand is something you've made up without properly supporting it.
what Kakashi did have nothing to do with movements speed. but in fact it had a lot to do with reflex, reaction speed, hand movements speed and... skills
yes. skills. because as I explained before, skills have a lot to do with maneuvers/counterattacks. and Kakashi was simply skilled enough to counter Chidori
Neji does not lack the reflex, Neji does not lack the reaction speed, Neji obviously does not lack the hand movements speed and lastly he doesn't lack the skills
you have this point. but that doesn't change the fact that he is able to cover himself with Chakra. maybe not on the same scale as SRA Neji. but he can still release Chakra all around himself but on a smaller scale to enhance his reaction
and here is the prove that he can do it. first, Rotation have two stages as explained by Tenten. the first stage is where the user is releasing Chakra to block the enemy's attack, and the second stage where the user spin to blast them
CE Neji can just perform the first stage which is basically releasing Chakra w/o spinning
if Lee w/ 1st Gate was going to fight Neji then he obviously is not going to try to engage in CQC since one touch from Neji would end the game. he is going to try a top speed charge to defeat him. the reason he needed Ura renge
Stop. You don't know how Lee would approach the fight nor does this even matter. Neji can react to that Lee. Fact. Can he react to a top speed charge well enough to counter? Baseless.
and Neji obviously is not going to block a top speed attack from Lee w/ 1st Gate even with the gentle fist. since once Lee's top speed attacks make contact. Neji would be sent flying away. the only logical reason to Neji's superiority was that he was able to dodge or at least counter Lee's top speed attacks
Would Neji be defeated? No. So you can stop now. Being knocked off the ground doesn't indicate defeat or anything close to being pressured. Stop making excuses.
so I agreed that Lee's speed = Naruto's so Neji would not be able to dodge here but that doesn't mean that he would not be able to counter since neither Lee or Sasuke's top speed attacks are near the power of Naruto's strike
what Kakashi did have nothing to do with movements speed. but in fact it had a lot to do with reflex, reaction speed, hand movements speed and... skills
yes. skills. because as I explained before, skills have a lot to do with maneuvers/counterattacks. and Kakashi was simply skilled enough to counter Chidori
Nope. Skills+Speed+Reaction are what tie into the ability to do such. Not just skills.
Neji does not lack the reflex, Neji does not lack the reaction speed, Neji obviously does not lack the hand movements speed and lastly he doesn't lack the skills
Thus you have no point. This entire argument is you making claims and making excuses for why they are true instead of providing evidence. You have no point here. Plain as day. What is the foundation of your argument anyway? There is nothing. This entire post and more and all you've said is that since Naruto>Lee/Sasuke's strikes when it came to power Neji can dodge even though that doesn't indicate anything about Neji's reaction speed.
Learn to read
the amount of chakra the user can access after removing the limiter from brain allows him to a series of grueling and demanding task at an incredible speed pushing the body to the limits of safety and beyond
incredible speed is just his base speed.There is no increase in speed.
TAIJUTSU; Omote Renge (Front Lotus)
User: Rock Lee
Offensive; Close range; Rank: B
Main text
After the shedding of much blood, sweat and tears, Lee mastered this kinjutsu. To use only "to protect someone precious to you", says his master Guy. For starters, he tosses the enemy high in the air, pushing them with an upwards kick from below, and tailing them with the Kage Buyou* movement technique. Then he captures them, wrapping bandages around them in midair. He holds the enemy tightly in his arms, adds a spinning motion, and plummets headfirst, straight to the ground. The reasons why Lee can use this ultra-high level, special taijutsu is none else than his off-the-charts speed and his thorough understanding of taijutsu's ABCs.
Captions
-Blossoming on the ground, stands a one-hit-kill flower!!
-A prohibited art that won't allow for inertia!!
Picture comments
-He prepares Omote Renge with a kick. From there, the higher the enemy goes, the more powerful it gets.
-Then, he falls at high speed. He won't even give the slightest of pauses to the enemy...!
what either of the lotus requires is strength and thats what the first 3 gates provide him [
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The first gate increases strength to 100% and allows the user to use omote renge
the second revitalises him and increases strength
third turns his skin red and allows him to use ura renge
No it is not stop making bullshit out of thin air [
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"if anyone were to employ anything close to 100% of their strength in his muscles they themself break down"
The 1st Gate increases muscle power from its 20% restricted level to close to 100% , which means he can run much faster , punch much faster and is all around more agile than his Base self in all forms of physical attribute that requires extensive or minimal effort , which includes having more power in the legs to move them faster when running or being able to quickly combo kick Gaara in mid-air after the initial kick , before the sand shield could even come close while also considering Gaara was weighed down by the heavy armor.
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Kakashi said performing that level of high speed Taijutsu puts a huge strain on the body. Keywords is that level of speed meaning a higher level of speed is attained w/Lotus
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Clearly showing that it increases combat speed and Gai also confirms it by saying the Lotus will let him strike his foe at high speed , so clearly without the Lotus he isn't striking his foe at the same speed as w/Lotus and the speed has to be substantial else the risk would outway the technique.
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That clearly shows that w/lotus Lee charges the foe at a greater speed than normal which is why its opened in the first place. The initial high speed attack is described as laser sharp.
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Then it was praised by Kimimaro used by a slower Lee
because it's purpose would be to enhance Neji's reaction not to block the attack
Chidori would need to make it way through a layer of Chakra. and once Sasuke attack the emitted Chakra. Neji would sense the attack which would give him a better Chance for reaction
Stop. You don't know how Lee would approach the fight nor does this even matter. Neji can react to that Lee. Fact. Can he react to a top speed charge well enough to counter? Baseless.
Would Neji be defeated? No. So you can stop now. Being knocked off the ground doesn't indicate defeat or anything close to being pressured. Stop making excuses.
stop reaching. Lee would obviously try a top speed charge. the reason he needed Ura renge. and how the **** would Neji defeat Lee if he didn't manage to dodge or counter ?!
Prelims Neji would have to react to the initial hit well enough to Dodge it since being forced to Block would leave a interval for Lee to pull off high speed combos w/Lotus active like he did to the much heavier Gaara not to mention the obvious increase in physical power which could be a problem for Neji's guard while Lee can continue to perform a series of attacks on him in that instance while boosted by the Lotus since unlike Kimimaro Prelims Neji cant absorb the impact of Lee's kick
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So a successful Block would still send him flying or greatly stagger him while Lee boosted by the Lotus would begin a combo with enhanced speed
Yes, and Kakashi>>>Neji. so stop.
Nope. Skills+Speed+Reaction are what tie into the ability to do such. Not just skills.
hand speed is what to tie to that ability more than the movement speed. because Kakashi only moved his hand fast to grab Sasuke and Naruto and throw them
does Neji lack the skills ? No. does Neji lack the hand speed ? Hell No. does Neji lack the reaction ? No. he was able to react to a much faster opponent
Thus you have no point. This entire argument is you making claims and making excuses for why they are true instead of providing evidence. You have no point here. Plain as day. What is the foundation of your argument anyway? There is nothing. This entire post and more and all you've said is that since Naruto>Lee/Sasuke's strikes when it came to power Neji can dodge even though that doesn't indicate anything about Neji's reaction speed.
the main point of my last post was that Neji's reaction for Lee's top speed charge would be either dodging or countering because if Neji tried tried a direct block it would send him flying.
so if Neji managed to dodge or counter a top speed charge from a faster opponent. why he wouldn't be able to do so with Sasuke ?
I already stated "I LOSE" as its no point going back and forth. At this point both sides are convinced on their decision so why continue on?
You're literally always derailing threads VS threads like this.