Sasuke can't maneuver at base lee speed while carrying Chidori. Nothing in the manga shows this. The only Chidori feats we have is of him doign direct straight forward attacks with Chidori.
What? How is this irrelevant? This is what the entire argument is based on
Lmao this has nothing to do with whether or not you've played sports. This has to do with using logic and not saying X is true because Y without explaining Y.
footwork and agility are huge factors in martial arts/sports but logically speaking that dont apply to you when you participate . Its one of the reasons Kishi drew his foot work
^^ This, is not an explanation. Write an argumentative paper and write something like this and you'll fail because you didn't explain your stance. If I can substitute statements like the following into your own argument then you know that your logic is flawed.
"With Neji's footwork displayed and his ability to close short distances he IS capable of dodging a straight forward attack like top speed Ay's lightning straight"
True or False? :lol. If you say true then we can end this argument now. If you say false then you'd have to explain why, and what would you say? Btw don't say that these are two different things, cause they are not. This is the logic that YOU yourself are using. That since Neji has good footwork and is fast he can dodge straight forward attacks.
With your "Logic" i guess your saying Ay = Sasuke speed? Sounds like you wanking a little bit there man.
Because there is a huge difference between Ay speed and Sasuke speed.
So why do you ignore this step altogether when talking about Sasuke? :lol. Multiple posts, multiple points, one that you IGNORED AGAIN for the 5th time show that if Sasuke isn't far away Neji won't dodge Chidori. Quit ignoring this and start addressing it.
Because you haven't shown me a scan of Sasuke using super fast agility with chidori in hand. Close range straight forward movement YES Neji will dodge Chidori.
Show me the feats!
And no, you ignore them because you are either too stupid to comprehend a basic analogy, or you comprehended it, realized that you were wrong but are too butthurt to admit that you were wrong. If the garbage in those scans you posted lets Neji dodge Chidori SOLELY because it's a linear attack then by that line of thinking why doesn't he dodge Ay? Lmao. But you won't answer this, cause if you answer it your argument ends right there.
Lmao, I don't need to show you anything, because Sasuke being able to maneuver like normal when running top speed has jack shit to do with whether or not he's fast enough to hit Neji.
Ouch. Anyways, comparing Ay to Sasuke again based on 1 simple variable to form your "Logic". Ay is much more faster than Sasuke to the point neither one could react at chuunin level. To sit here and say Sasuke can move faster than Neji can react is absurd.
You know this is usually where you'd ELABORATE. :lol Because I've already elaborated and I've shown that Neji couldn't dodge someone slower than Sasuke so how does he dodge Sasuke? I'll wait for an answer.
What? How is this irrelevant? This is what the entire argument is based on
No, it's not. You think that Sasuke being unable to run around in zig zags means that I lose the argument even though my argument WAS NEVER EVER BASED ON THIS. It's based on his SPEED not his mobility. You'd know this if you weren't ignoring what isn't praise for Neji.
footwork and agility are huge factors in martial arts/sports but i wont continue on this subject as since you fail to understand that this is why we are where we at now.
Nope. For anything. The basics of argumentation are the same and it doesn't matter what you argue. Make a claim and provide evidence for claim. You seem to have a lot of trouble with the last bit. :lol
With your "Logic" i guess your saying Ay = Sasuke speed? Sounds like you wanking a little bit there man.
Because there is a huge difference between Ay speed and Sasuke speed.
See. This is just another example of how stupid some people on this site can be. Please go learn what an analogy is. What is being compared isn't Sasuke and Ay's speed and a child would be able to see that. What's being compared is how your logic applies to both situations.
Situation 1: You claim that BECAUSE NEJI HAS GOOD FOOTWORK AND AGILITY he can dodge linear attacks.
Claim: Neji can dodge Chidori.
Evidence 1: It's a linear attack.
Evidence 2: He has good footwork and agility.
Situation 2: Because Neji has good footwork and agility he can dodge linear attacks.
Claim: Neji can dodge Ay
Evidence 1: It's a linear attack
Evidence 2: he has good footwork and agility.
Both pieces of evidence you have provided fail to address the actual speed of the incoming person. That's why when I swap Sasuke out for Ay your logic and argument sounds, looks and is revealed to be stupid. If you add another piece of evidence that has to do with speed and how what Neji has done lets him EVADE someone of Sasuke's/Ay's speed then you'll see that you need a speed COMPARISON of some kind to make this argument legit. A comparison is why someone can't make this argument and say that Neji dodges Ay even though his attacks are linear. Thus if you want to argue that Neji dodges Sasuke make a comparison or go have a seat.
Your logic: Neji dodges Sasuke because Chidori is linear.
The only way I'd be saying Sasuke=Ay in speed is if I said Sasuke hits Neji because Ay can hit him too, but only an idiot or someone who can't understand a simple analogy would insinuate that I said that.
TL;DR: If your logic doesn't apply IN ALL CASES then it's flawed. End of story.
Because you haven't shown me a scan of Sasuke using super fast agility with chidori in hand. Close range straight forward movement YES Neji will dodge Chidori.
Claim: Neji can dodge Chidori.
Evidence 1: It's a linear attack.
Evidence 2: He has good footwork and agility.
Situation 2: Because Neji has good footwork and agility he can dodge linear attacks.
Claim: Neji can dodge Ay
Evidence 1: It's a linear attack
Evidence 2: he has good footwork and agility.
Both pieces of evidence you have provided fail to address the actual speed of the incoming person. That's why when I swap Sasuke out for Ay your logic and argument sounds, looks and is revealed to be stupid. If you add another piece of evidence that has to do with speed and how what Neji has done lets him EVADE someone of Sasuke's/Ay's speed then you'll see that you need a speed COMPARISON of some kind to make this argument legit. A comparison is why someone can't make this argument and say that Neji dodges Ay even though his attacks are linear. Thus if you want to argue that Neji dodges Sasuke make a comparison or go have a seat.
"With Neji's footwork displayed and his ability to close short distances he IS capable of dodging a straight forward attack like top speed Ay's lightning straight"
True or False? :lol. If you say true then we can end this argument now. If you say false then you'd have to explain why, and what would you say? Btw don't say that these are two different things, cause they are not. This is the logic that YOU yourself are using. That since Neji has good footwork and is fast he can dodge straight forward attacks.
You are wasting your time
The whole argument of anyone discussing for neji is neji>base lee so he will somehow outmaneuvere and beat sasuke completely ignoring sasuke is not Lee.he has both sharingan and chidori and that's the reason anyone is even arguing he wins
Then we have byakugan getting sharingan's feats somehow
But again most of them are same people who argue for neji or hinata against war arc sakura based on part 1 feats.compares kidomaru's jutsu to kaguya's chakra arm.
90% of scans I have seen here is neji shitting on part 1 hinata and base naruto.dunno why are those scans even being posted
You are wasting your time
The whole argument of anyone discussing for neji is neji>base lee so he will somehow outmaneuvere and beat sasuke completely ignoring sasuke is not Lee.he has both sharingan and chidori and that's the reason anyone is even arguing he wins
Then we have byakugan getting sharingan's feats somehow
But again most of them are same people who argue for neji or hinata against war arc sakura based on part 1 feats.compares kidomaru's jutsu to kaguya's chakra arm.
90% of scans I have seen here is neji shitting on part 1 hinata and base naruto.dunno why are those scans even being posted
Lmao you're 1000% right. So ridiculous. Instead of addressing my arguments like I addressed theirs they misconstrue my words and make stuff up to hide from admitting the flaws in their arguments.
"haha you said Sasuke=Ay in speed"
"haha neji so good at taijutsu he deflects chidori no diff"
"rotation tanks because it spins"
Not sure why people do this. They don't bring enough evidence but then blame Kishimoto for not giving said character enough panel time when in reality they had more than enough panel time for you to make a decent argument. :lol
So yeah, not even gonna touch this topic again until someone can respond to that last post with something that hasn't already been said.
-No, Chidori does not take a long time to prepare.
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Done before transformed Gaara can reach Sasuke. Transformed Gaara is faster than
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Does it even faster the next time.
-You've yet to show that Neji can dodge Chidori unless it's used from far away. Instead of arguing like you have common sense you post scans of Sasuke fighting in Taijutsu. How does Naruto being able to react to Sasuke's punches mean that Neji can dodge Chidori? Chidori is not a punch. Chidori is not hand to hand. Stop making these shitty comparisons. Meanwhile the Sasuke side has consistently shown that Neji could NOT complete a rotation when matched against someone of Naruto's speed, and Naruto at that time is not faster than Weightless Lee. Thus Sasuke puts Neji in the same position and Neji dies. Simple as that. You guys love to whine and moan about 5G Lee even though this is not Lee. Lee needs Ura Renge because if he engages Neji in hand to hand he will die. Sasuke doesn't need that level of speed because Chidori prevents Neji from engaging him in hand to hand. You say "b-b-but he can disable the chakra points" but you've yet to show any level of speed from Neji that lets him accomplish this. All you and Melanoma can provide are scans of Neji fodderizing Hinata and Base Naruto as evidence he does the same to Sasuke while ignoring the obvious difference in power between them. Like, is it really this hard to put your biases aside and argue with honesty? Oh wait, this is Narutobase. Of course it's too hard for you guys. :lol
-You've yet to prove that the Byakugan can predict movements akin to the Sharingan. Byakugan's abilities have been highlighted and the ability to actually read movements is not one of them. Neji being able to react faster with it on isn't proof that he's reading movements. It's proof that it increases his perception and that's exactly what it does, hence the 360 degree vision. By feats VoTE Sasuke's reaction speed shits on Neji's. (Reacting to and consistently weaving KN0) By feats CE Sasuke's speed is overall easily superior to Neji's. (DB stats and is as fast as Lee)
-You've yet to prove that Chidori slows Sasuke down. Irrelevant drivel.
>Sasuke attempts Chidori.
>Neji tries to close off his chakra points
>Sasuke rips right through his fingers, arm and chest since Neji doesn't possess the capability to do to Sasuke what Itachi did to Sasuke, which was literally your only tangible piece of evidence. :lol
And I'm going to accept your concession on our little side argument about 3-Tomoe Sasuke vs. SRA Neji since I see no response as this entire post deals with CE Sasuke vs. CE Neji. The only version of Sasuke PTS Neji will ever be able to defeat is Sasuke before he learned Chidori. End of story.
If any more Neji fans want to come help these guys out it'd probably be appreciated since it's very clear that the ones currently posting have no idea what they've been talking about for the past 8 pages. :lol
CE Sasuke cant use Chidori effectively as a melee weapon and even if he could, Base VOTE Naruto has the reaction to always meet Sasuke's chidori thrust with his own thrust. So Neji who is much better in all physical stats wont fall prey to Chidori being used as a melee weapon when even VOTE Sasuke with full power chidori running from a distance could not outmaneuver and see Naruto's counter thrust.
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Which is why he needed CM and diversions in order to actually land Chidori on Base Naruto. This from a Sasuke who has much superior stats than CE Sasuke and a Naruto who has inferior physical stats compared to CE Neji.
Chidori cant be instantly activated to be used as a melee weapon either , at least not in P1. Sasuke would first need to get a bit of time/distance then try to use his full speed in a linear path. and Chidori is basically a thrust which clearly means that its hand to hand as he's applying a physical movement(Palm thrust/chop) for the justu to be successful.
Sasuke's striking speed is exactly the same as Lee who Neji can surely intercept and beat , Sasuke has the bonus of sharingan to perceive Neji's counter-measure unlike Lee , but if VOTE Sasuke couldn't outmaneuver Base Naruto's rasengan well enough to land chidori without any diversions+CM, then Neji would surely be able to react much better than Naruto.
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If VOTE 2T Sasuke couldn't perceive and outmaneuver Base Naruto's palm thrust/rasengan nail similar to what he did with Aye's elbow , then you can forget about it happening to Neji when he easily has much faster reflexes and striking speed compared to Base Naruto.
Its a fact , VOTE Sasuke could not straight up rush Base Naruto using his Lee speed + 2T to outmaneuver his counter-measures. He needed to activate Curse Mark to greatly enhance speed then beat Naruto into a corner where he could not counter.
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CE Neji has much better reflexes compared to VOTE Base Naruto , so literally no reason why Neji's quick hand movements wouldn't apply against a inferior Sasuke.
VOTE Sasuke isn't fast enough to charge Chidori then hit Naruto with it before the latter can summon a clone, form rasengan then intercept his thrust, as 2T Sasuke cant outmaneuver Base Naruto's counter then he cant do so with Neji's.
and Chidori doesn't prevent hand to hand as its fully dependent on hand to hand capability
and BTW the Byakugan cannot read movements nor did I say that. but it can follow high speed movements (the reason that Neji activated his Byakugan to follow 5th gated Lee's speed) which gives the user a better chance to react to them. it maybe not as efficient as the Sharingan. but it also increases the reaction speed
and nothing suggest that Lee w/o weights is faster or as fast as Naruto using kurama's chakra in the Chunin exams since the only difference between that form and the form with red eyes is that one attains the Chakra through rage , which is why Naruto's eyes become red.
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While the form used against Neji was directly sent from Kurama without Naruto being in an enraged state , which is why Naruto lacked the red eyes.
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In terms of the amount of Chakra along with the show of power and force Naruto's form demonstrated in the CE with Kurama's chakra , its slightly similar to his VOTE Transformation.
Chunin Exam KNO Transformation.
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VOTE KN0 Rage triggered Transformation.
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nothing suggest that KNO Naruto from the Chunin exams would be slower/weaker than his rage triggered transformation here.
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So likewise there is no reason why Lee w/o weights and by extension Sasuke , would be faster than a Naruto with so much enough of Kurama's Chakra circulating in him for it to ooze from his body and become constantly visible.
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CE KN0 had so much of kurama's chakra around him that it could be used as a physical attack/shield which suprised Neji.
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No proof that Sasuke is faster than that Naruto nor will Sasuke charging Chidori catch Neji off guard or surprise him like Naruto's sudden outburst of Chakra did
CE Sasuke cant use Chidori effectively as a melee weapon and even if he could, Base VOTE Naruto has the reaction to always meet Sasuke's chidori thrust with his own thrust. So Neji who is much better in all physical stats wont fall prey to Chidori being used as a melee weapon when even VOTE Sasuke with full power chidori running from a distance could not outmaneuver and see Naruto's counter thrust.
Not only was no one ever arguing the bold, but it's irrelevant. You guys have really got to start addressing just what is being said and not all this extra shit. Anyway your Naruto and Sasuke examples are absolutely terrible because Naruto can clash against Chidori, meaning he doesn't need to evade it. Neji can't clash with Chidori, thus he needs to put in extra effort to evade or counter it and you can't show that he can do either nor does he have any speed feats on the level of those who could do such, i.e. Itachi.
Which is why he needed CM and diversions in order to actually land Chidori on Base Naruto. This from a Sasuke who has much superior stats than CE Sasuke and a Naruto who has inferior physical stats compared to CE Neji.
1. 2nd DB covers everything after Neji and Naruto's fight to the end of Part 1. So I have no idea where you are getting this fanfiction nonsense about VoTE Sasuke's base stats being far beyond that of CE Sasuke's, but it's false. The only buff Sasuke got was the 2nd state.
2. 2nd DB gives Naruto a 3 in speed. CE Neji is DB 1 and has the same 3 in speed. So does Sasuke for the 2nd databook Not like it matters anyway because your logic doesn't make sense.
Chidori cant be instantly activated to be used as a melee weapon either , at least not in P1. Sasuke would first need to get a bit of time/distance then try to use his full speed in a linear path. and Chidori is basically a thrust which clearly means that its hand to hand as he's applying a physical movement(Palm thrust/chop) for the justu to be successful.
Any and all points about Chidori taking long to charge have been addressed.
Sasuke's striking speed is exactly the same as Lee who Neji can surely intercept and beat , Sasuke has the bonus of sharingan to perceive Neji's counter-measure unlike Lee , but if VOTE Sasuke couldn't outmaneuver Base Naruto's rasengan well enough to land chidori without any diversions+CM, then Neji would surely be able to react much better than Naruto.
Same thing you said above that I already addressed. Sasuke can't land a direct hit on Naruto with Naruto intercepting with Rasengan. How does that mean that Neji counters Chidori like you say he does when it takes far more effort and speed to evade and/or counter an incoming attack than it does to simply slam your own attack into it?
It doesn't. That's how. There is no correlation.
If VOTE 2T Sasuke couldn't perceive and outmaneuver Base Naruto's palm thrust/rasengan nail similar to what he did with Aye's elbow , then you can forget about it happening to Neji when he easily has much faster reflexes and striking speed compared to Base Naruto.
What Sasuke did against Ay is he ducked under Ay's arm and hit him in the chest. Can he do that to Naruto? No. Sure. Does that matter? No. Can he do that to Neji? No and no one ever said he could. That's you addressing points that were never made while ignoring what has been made and what has been asked of you. None of this shows that Neji can EVADE. It shows that Sasuke can't slip past Neji's guard and land a hit on him w/o Neji being able to do anything. No one ever said that'd happen. What we've been saying happens is that Sasuke attacks and Neji rotates and then Chidori pierces rotation and kills him.
Its a fact , VOTE Sasuke could not straight up rush Base Naruto using his Lee speed + 2T to outmaneuver his counter-measures. He needed to activate Curse Mark to greatly enhance speed then beat Naruto into a corner where he could not counter.
Lmao. Did you really just type the same paragraph 4 times in different words? Same response as the stuff above got.
CE Neji has much better reflexes compared to VOTE Base Naruto , so literally no reason why Neji's quick hand movements wouldn't apply against a inferior Sasuke.
Doesn't matter. Dodging, countering and clashing are 3 completely different motions that require different levels of effort. Clashing with someone's technique requires the least amount of effort. Next is dodging. Next would be So how does Naruto being able to react to Chidori and slam Rasengan into it equate to Neji being able to counter by blocking the chakra points? You really need to stop with these insane leaps in logic.
VOTE Sasuke isn't fast enough to charge Chidori then hit Naruto with it before the latter can summon a clone, form rasengan then intercept his thrust, as 2T Sasuke cant outmaneuver Base Naruto's counter then he cant do so with Neji's.
Irrelevant. Lmao. Do you even believe the stuff you are saying at this point? Naruto's counter isn't a counter in the sense that you are claiming Neji will do to Sasuke. Naruto clashed with him. That proves that Naruto is fast enough to react to and slam his own jutsu into Sasuke's. It doesn't prove that he's fast enough to do what Itachi did to Sasuke nor does it prove that Neji will do what Itachi did to Sasuke. That simple.
@bold: All this would make sense as a counter if anyone ever claimed that Sasuke would outmaneuver Neji like he did to Ay and land Chidori on him. However no one claimed that. What is being claimed, again, is that Neji can do anything but outright evade (this is fact) and counter the incoming attack. Where does that talk about Sasuke outmanoeuvring anybody?
and Chidori doesn't prevent hand to hand as its fully dependent on hand to hand capability
Yes it does, because you can't go hand to hand with a guy who's hand is covered in lightning chakra. Pure common sense. And no, Chidori has nothing to do with hand to hand capability because it's not Taijutsu. It's not a hand to hand jutsu. Please don't argue that it is. Hand to hand is punching, blocking and parrying in some cases. Not wielding a blade of lightning wrapped around your hand.
and BTW the Byakugan cannot read movements nor did I say that. but it can follow high speed movements (the reason that Neji activated his Byakugan to follow 5th gated Lee's speed) which gives the user a better chance to react to them. it maybe not as efficient as the Sharingan. but it also increases the reaction speed
It doesn't do what Sharingan does so there's no point mentioning it as a counter to the Sharingan when the Sharingan is obviously better in that regard.
and nothing suggest that Lee w/o weights is faster or as fast as Naruto using kurama's chakra in the Chunin exams since the only difference between that form and the form with red eyes is that one attains the Chakra through rage , which is why Naruto's eyes become red.
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While the form used against Neji was directly sent from Kurama without Naruto being in an enraged state , which is why Naruto lacked the red eyes.
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In terms of the amount of Chakra along with the show of power and force Naruto's form demonstrated in the CE with Kurama's chakra , its slightly similar to his VOTE Transformation.
Chunin Exam KNO Transformation.
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VOTE KN0 Rage triggered Transformation.
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nothing suggest that KNO Naruto from the Chunin exams would be slower/weaker than his rage triggered transformation here.
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So likewise there is no reason why Lee w/o weights and by extension Sasuke , would be faster than a Naruto with so much enough of Kurama's Chakra circulating in him for it to ooze from his body and become constantly visible.
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CE KN0 had so much of kurama's chakra around him that it could be used as a physical attack/shield which suprised Neji.
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No proof that Sasuke is faster than that Naruto nor will Sasuke charging Chidori catch Neji off guard or surprise him like Naruto's sudden outburst of Chakra did
Uh, no. All of this isn't even an argument. It's you ignoring the clear fact that these are two different forms with different levels of feats.
1. Naruto in the Chunnin Exams is weaker and slower than himself at VoTE. The databook scores show this. DB 1 is up to his fight with Neji. DB 2 is up to the end of Part 1. Naruto went from a 2 in speed to a 3. So that alone ends your point about VoTE KN0 being equal to CE KN0.
2. Naruto when he's enraged has better feats. VoTE KN0 is capable of blitzing Sasuke with Sasuke being unable to make a proper reaction. CE KN0 couldn't blitz Neji who isn't faster than Sasuke, also shown by Sasuke and Lee's feats against Gaara. If VoTE KN0 can blitz someone faster or at least as fast as Neji while CE Naruto couldn't blitz Neji then obviously VoTE KN0 is much faster.
So no. Someone slower than Naruto pressured Chunnin Exams Neji into Rotating thus it's impossible for him to evade that level of speed and anything above it from that distance. Point blank period. You've also yet to show that Neji is fast enough to block the chakra points in Sasuke's arm before Chidori hits him and I already know that you cannot even begin to support this so typing any further would just be you wasting your time. If you could prove that point you wouldn't be grasping at straws by mentioning Naruto being able to clash w/ Chidori even though Naruto clashing with Chidori has nothing to do with Neji countering it.
You are going to need to show me some actual evidence that Neji will counter someone faster than him in every way possible the way you claim he can do. Especially since the only time that has happened is when there has been a gap in speed and physical ability between the two combatants like there was between Sasuke and Itachi and Kakashi in comparison to Naruto/Sasuke (Kakashi was able to grab Sasuke and Naruto's arms and throw them away from each other to stop them from clashing on the hospital roof)
-This gap does NOT exist when it comes to Sasuke and Neji.
-Kakashi>>>Neji.
-Itachi>>>Neji.
The fastest person Neji has ever been able to do this to was Hinata back in the CE Prelims. Sasuke>>>>Hinata in CE finals let alone CE prelims.
Btw please don't make excuses. Neji didn't complete his Rotation because Naruto was too fast not because he was taken surprise. He had already witnessed the fact that Naruto's speed had increased before Naruto charged at him and he can clearly see the chakra even before it flared up.
I showed feats Neji can dodge the attack not counter the attack. Huge difference
You know what the main variable is between Kyuubi cloak bash and Chidori?
One is an arm thrust and the other is a fully body bash wrapped in chakra.
Naruto's entire body is a weapon where as Sasuke's arm is the only lethal threat with these attacks. Yes from short distance if an entire body is lunged at you your not going to dodge it. If only an arm is launched its much easier to evade.
Sasuke has Lee's speed and movements and Lee is faster than Neji. Those are facts so please don't even try to dispute them. The feats show it. The DB gives Lee (who is = Sasuke) a 4 while Neji only has a 3. Him being able to strike faster than Neji is irrelevant. Striking faster or striking slower doesn't translate to Sasuke being able or unable to hit him with Chidori so don't go there either.
So if striking speed doesn't translate to Sasuke being able or unable to hit him with Chidori then why are we having this conversation? Is your main reasoning based on Sasuke close range can hit neji with Chidori?
You speak of "Logic" but you contradict yourself constantly. My point has remained consistent yet yours has changed so much until the point you believe Ay and Sasuke are equal in your equation.
We both agreed Chidori was the decider of this fight and there are many variables and factors to consider. Its a show about combat and martial arts. I dont think you will understand where im coming from which is why we dont see eye to eye but I would suggest taking up some martial arts classes and maybe you will see my point.
Then again judging by your condescending tone and self claims of intellect on narutobase.com VS section. I do find it amusing.
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BTW he did not catch Neji off guard. they clashed. You can visibly see Neji's chakra
This is the most i've ever posted about Neji in my entire life! Everyone has there minds made up.
I think Neji's rotation isnt absolute against chidori. And Neji realising somethink like the Chidori is about to hit him, wont be too careless to wager everything in rotation. it is a battle won by who hits first. 64 hits vs Chidori, both deadly. The gamechanger is the idea of how quick rotation can form and resist chidori. Without a clear win for Rotation, Sasuke is at an advantage.
only thing you ever did or would ever do is make shitty fapfics for people whose comprehension skills for manga like you are zero :lol
the dude has actually spammed multiple times in past how hinata with hamura chakra can beat anyone bar jj madara and obito;how hinata is hamura reincarnated;how she can fly;how neji beats kakuzu or hiashi beats ems madara and list goes on :lol
:lol These kids. I love when they get called out on their BS and they just cry about how "it's just my opinion". Lmao. As if that makes you correct. :lol That's like me saying 2+3=6 and no one can tell me otherwise cause it's my opinion.
But this guy's level of fanboyism is unhealthy. Probably just an elaborate troll.
:lol These kids. I love when they get called out on their BS and they just cry about how "it's just my opinion". Lmao. As if that makes you correct. :lol That's like me saying 2+3=6 and no one can tell me otherwise cause it's my opinion.
But this guy's level of fanboyism is unhealthy. Probably just an elaborate troll.
Fact is fact regardless of what medium we are discussing.
Lmfao. This fanboy has the nerve to open up his post with "No, because facts say so" only to then turn around and start whining about his opinion after people get at him.
absolutely not i have been proven wrong countless times and i accept it :lol
i am not like some dude that i will repeteadly making shitty fanfics to wank fodders who i like :lol
i like suigetsu have you seen me making threads about him showing how he fodderises hiashi;temari;kurotsuchi let alone kage's or madara.Nope
yeah if someone repeteadly argues for hinata against sakura and when everything he digs from manga gets shatted down then goes on make absolutely asinine fanfiction he is just reaching
here is an example of your comprehension skill in this thread when kg was debating ce sasuke[vs gaara] can beat ce neji[vs naruto]
For the 4th time: Here are feats showing Neji capable of avoiding Chidori. You just choose to ignore them.
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Secondly, Sasuke's mobility with Chidori based on feats is extremely limited. This is something you have yet to disprove. The argument constantly speaks of rotation and chidori clashing but the reality is Neji can simply evade it based on feats provided.
Yes Sasuke is extremely agile and fast but with chidori he loses his mobility. Disprove this claim because based on feats he is only capable of straight forward direct movement. Not lateral and evasive maneuvers at the speeds indicated when combating gaara's sand
Not only was no one ever arguing the bold, but it's irrelevant. You guys have really got to start addressing just what is being said and not all this extra shit. Anyway your Naruto and Sasuke examples are absolutely terrible because Naruto can clash against Chidori, meaning he doesn't need to evade it. Neji can't clash with Chidori, thus he needs to put in extra effort to evade or counter it and you can't show that he can do either nor does he have any speed feats on the level of those who could do such, i.e. Itachi.
Same thing you said above that I already addressed. Sasuke can't land a direct hit on Naruto with Naruto intercepting with Rasengan. How does that mean that Neji counters Chidori like you say he does when it takes far more effort and speed to evade and/or counter an incoming attack than it does to simply slam your own attack into it?
It doesn't. That's how. There is no correlation.
What Sasuke did against Ay is he ducked under Ay's arm and hit him in the chest. Can he do that to Naruto? No. Sure. Does that matter? No. Can he do that to Neji? No and no one ever said he could. That's you addressing points that were never made while ignoring what has been made and what has been asked of you. None of this shows that Neji can EVADE. It shows that Sasuke can't slip past Neji's guard and land a hit on him w/o Neji being able to do anything. No one ever said that'd happen. What we've been saying happens is that Sasuke attacks and Neji rotates and then Chidori pierces rotation and kills him.
Doesn't matter. Dodging, countering and clashing are 3 completely different motions that require different levels of effort. Clashing with someone's technique requires the least amount of effort. Next is dodging. Next would be So how does Naruto being able to react to Chidori and slam Rasengan into it equate to Neji being able to counter by blocking the chakra points? You really need to stop with these insane leaps in logic.
Irrelevant. Lmao. Do you even believe the stuff you are saying at this point? Naruto's counter isn't a counter in the sense that you are claiming Neji will do to Sasuke. Naruto clashed with him. That proves that Naruto is fast enough to react to and slam his own jutsu into Sasuke's. It doesn't prove that he's fast enough to do what Itachi did to Sasuke nor does it prove that Neji will do what Itachi did to Sasuke. That simple.
@bold: All this would make sense as a counter if anyone ever claimed that Sasuke would outmaneuver Neji like he did to Ay and land Chidori on him. However no one claimed that. What is being claimed, again, is that Neji can do anything but outright evade (this is fact) and counter the incoming attack. Where does that talk about Sasuke outmanoeuvring anybody?
the Sasuke and Naruto clashing example just proves that Sasuke even with Lee's speed and the Sharingan couldn't maneuver base Naruto and nail him so he would not be able to do so with Neji who has a much better reflexes.
Chidori is just a melee weapon where the user is runnging/dashing and thrusting it into his opponent with his own speed. meaning if you can react to the user's speed, you can react to the strike. it is really as simple as that
Sasuke's speed is not on the level to blitz Neji. who could handle Lee's speed easily. so Sasuke's base speed which is just a copy-past of base Lee's speed ain't a shit for Neji's reflexes.
all Neji need to do is to move slightly enough to evade the Chidori and touch Sasuke's arm or even his shoulder to disable it. Neji's has a better reflexes than Naruto, and he has a supperior striking speed so he would be able to strike before Chidori can even make contact with him
the Sharingan and Sasuke's reaction speed are irrelavent since Neji would be the one reacting here. and Neji can obviously react to Sasuke's speed meaning he would be able to react to the strike. and Chidori is just a linear strike so if Neji dodged it then it is over
1. 2nd DB covers everything after Neji and Naruto's fight to the end of Part 1. So I have no idea where you are getting this fanfiction nonsense about VoTE Sasuke's base stats being far beyond that of CE Sasuke's, but it's false. The only buff Sasuke got was the 2nd state.
2. 2nd DB gives Naruto a 3 in speed. CE Neji is DB 1 and has the same 3 in speed. So does Sasuke for the 2nd databook Not like it matters anyway because your logic doesn't make sense.
1.the whole purpose of Sasuke taking the awakening pill was to make his body suitable for CM2 which clearly buffed physical stats as he went from being stomped in a few hits from Sakon in his CM1 form , to tanking multiple hits from KNO Naruto and KN1 in Base form to the point that he felt nothing after getting a direct punch to the face from KN1 in CM1 where his previous form couln't take punches from Sako
2.correct but Neji > base Naruto in terms of hand speed and reflexes
Yes it does, because you can't go hand to hand with a guy who's hand is covered in lightning chakra. Pure common sense. And no, Chidori has nothing to do with hand to hand capability because it's not Taijutsu. It's not a hand to hand jutsu. Please don't argue that it is. Hand to hand is punching, blocking and parrying in some cases. Not wielding a blade of lightning wrapped around your hand.
chidori is just a melee weapon where a lighting chakra is covering the user's, it doesn't prevent hand to hand combat as the user still needs to make a physical thrust. The only thing Chidori prevents is direct blocks as the area would get ran through , but that doesn't prevent Neji from reacting to his initial palm thrust as Sasuke's chidori w/o using full speed from a distance is effectively the same speed as his normal open palmed attacks only with more reach
now give a deadly melee weapon to someone with no skills and put him against an empty-handed skilled martial artist and guess who would win
It doesn't do what Sharingan does so there's no point mentioning it as a counter to the Sharingan when the Sharingan is obviously better in that regard.
the point is that it does also increases the reaction speed. so Sasuke w/ Lee's speed is not a problem for Neji since he has the reflexes and the reaction speed
Uh, no. All of this isn't even an argument. It's you ignoring the clear fact that these are two different forms with different levels of feats.
1. Naruto in the Chunnin Exams is weaker and slower than himself at VoTE. The databook scores show this. DB 1 is up to his fight with Neji. DB 2 is up to the end of Part 1. Naruto went from a 2 in speed to a 3. So that alone ends your point about VoTE KN0 being equal to CE KN0.
2. Naruto when he's enraged has better feats. VoTE KN0 is capable of blitzing Sasuke with Sasuke being unable to make a proper reaction. CE KN0 couldn't blitz Neji who isn't faster than Sasuke, also shown by Sasuke and Lee's feats against Gaara. If VoTE KN0 can blitz someone faster or at least as fast as Neji while CE Naruto couldn't blitz Neji then obviously VoTE KN0 is much faster.
Correct, but I wasn't comparing CE kn0 Naruto to VOTE, the point was that its the same Chakra only without Naruto having the appearance due to not triggering the mode with Rage. He has less feats sure since it was a one time use , but that isn't enough to put his speed below Sasuke which is what your argument based on.
So no. Someone slower than Naruto pressured Chunnin Exams Neji into Rotating thus it's impossible for him to evade that level of speed and anything above it from that distance. Point blank period. You've also yet to show that Neji is fast enough to block the chakra points in Sasuke's arm before Chidori hits him and I already know that you cannot even begin to support this so typing any further would just be you wasting your time. If you could prove that point you wouldn't be grasping at straws by mentioning Naruto being able to clash w/ Chidori even though Naruto clashing with Chidori has nothing to do with Neji countering it.
You are going to need to show me some actual evidence that Neji will counter someone faster than him in every way possible the way you claim he can do. Especially since the only time that has happened is when there has been a gap in speed and physical ability between the two combatants like there was between Sasuke and Itachi and Kakashi in comparison to Naruto/Sasuke (Kakashi was able to grab Sasuke and Naruto's arms and throw them away from each other to stop them from clashing on the hospital roof)
-This gap does NOT exist when it comes to Sasuke and Neji.
-Kakashi>>>Neji.
-Itachi>>>Neji.
The fastest person Neji has ever been able to do this to was Hinata back in the CE Prelims. Sasuke>>>>Hinata in CE finals let alone CE prelims.
you have no proof that Sasuke w/ Lee's speed is faster than CE Kn0 Naruto. Kn0 Naruto had the feat of pushing Neji to his limits. while we all know that Neji had the reflexes and the reaction speed to defeat base Lee. if what you said was true then Lee w/o would've not even needed the Gates to beat Neji, which is false since Lee clearly said that he needed it.
Btw please don't make excuses. Neji didn't complete his Rotation because Naruto was too fast not because he was taken surprise. He had already witnessed the fact that Naruto's speed had increased before Naruto charged at him and he can clearly see the chakra even before it flared up.
I agree. he was so fast that Neji couldn't even complete the rotation. but there is no proof that Lee's speed w/o wieghts let alone Sasuke's speed is supperior
Kurotsuchi is weak, she has little to no offensive abilities, and anything she can muster up will be seen by Hinata's byakugan as the Chakra builds up, allowing her to dodge easily.
yeah if someone repeteadly argues for hinata against sakura and when everything he digs from manga gets shatted down then goes on make absolutely asinine fanfiction he is just reaching
Except this is a debate between two characters who have never fought, with the one and only deciding factor being whether Chidori would bypass on Neji's defenses and reflexes or not, with you yourself saying Sasuke can't win w/o Chidori. The two aren't even remotely the same in terms of what's considered "fact".
the Sasuke and Naruto clashing example just proves that Sasuke even with Lee's speed and the Sharingan couldn't maneuver base Naruto and nail him so he would not be able to do so with Neji who has a much better reflexes.
Doesn't matter because no one said he would outmaneuver Neji, slip past his defenses and strike him directly. Not sure what's so hard to understand about that.
Chidori is just a melee weapon where the user is runnging/dashing and thrusting it into his opponent with his own speed. meaning if you can react to the user's speed, you can react to the strike. it is really as simple as that
But does that mean he can react well enough to block the points in Sasuke's arm? No. So until you can support that assertion your argument will continue to be based on nothing.
Sasuke's speed is not on the level to blitz Neji. who could handle Lee's speed easily. so Sasuke's base speed which is just a copy-past of base Lee's speed ain't a shit for Neji's reflexes.
Doesn't matter because no one said Sasuke canb litz Neji.
all Neji need to do is to move slightly enough to evade the Chidori and touch Sasuke's arm or even his shoulder to disable it. Neji's has a better reflexes than Naruto, and he has a supperior striking speed so he would be able to strike before Chidori can even make contact with him
Nope. Being able to react=/=Being able to react well enough to do the bold. Neji being able to hit Sasuke because he has striking speed superior to Naruto doesn't matter because Naruto can't come close to doing what you think is possible either.
the Sharingan and Sasuke's reaction speed are irrelavent since Neji would be the one reacting here. and Neji can obviously react to Sasuke's speed meaning he would be able to react to the strike. and Chidori is just a linear strike so if Neji dodged it then it is over
If Neji is counter attacking then he is attacking thus that is something for Sasuke to react to. :lol Not gonna talk about Neji dodging until you can show that he can.
1.the whole purpose of Sasuke taking the awakening pill was to make his body suitable for CM2 which clearly buffed physical stats as he went from being stomped in a few hits from Sakon in his CM1 form , to tanking multiple hits from KNO Naruto and KN1 in Base form to the point that he felt nothing after getting a direct punch to the face from KN1 in CM1 where his previous form couln't take punches from Sako
Nope. The point of the pill was outright stated. The pill forced him to awaken CM2 and their sealing jutsu let him adjust to it on his own without dying. The pill doesn't help him adjust. He adjusts on his own.
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Sasuke's body needs time to adjust. The sealing jutsu gives him that time to adjust. The rest of this point is wrong too.
Sakon stomped him in close combat but Sasuke wasn't hurt to the point where he couldn't continue. Same goes for his fight against KN0. He got stomped but in the long run he wasn't seriously injured. Not to mention KN1 only hit him once and that's the ONLY time where he stated that he wasn't hurt. Sakon hit him multiple times.
2.correct but Neji > base Naruto in terms of hand speed and reflexes
Which is also correct but it doesn't matter because that doesn't mean Neji can do what you say he can do.
chidori is just a melee weapon where a lighting chakra is covering the user's, it doesn't prevent hand to hand combat as the user still needs to make a physical thrust. The only thing Chidori prevents is direct blocks as the area would get ran through , but that doesn't prevent Neji from reacting to his initial palm thrust as Sasuke's chidori w/o using full speed from a distance is effectively the same speed as his normal open palmed attacks only with more reach
Lmao you're saying two completely different things here. Regardless. You've yet to show that Neji can react well enough to counter Chidori so until you can do that your argument has no backing. None at all.
now give a deadly melee weapon to someone with no skills and put him against an empty-handed skilled martial artist and guess who would win
1. Sasuke isn't someone with no skills.
2. Your analogy, just like your entire argument, ignores speed and reactions.
So I have no idea how you think it applies to this situation, but it doesn't.
the point is that it does also increases the reaction speed. so Sasuke w/ Lee's speed is not a problem for Neji since he has the reflexes and the reaction speed
Irrelevant. Neji being able to react doesn't mean that he can react well enough to counter.
Correct, but I wasn't comparing CE kn0 Naruto to VOTE, the point was that its the same Chakra only without Naruto having the appearance due to not triggering the mode with Rage. He has less feats sure since it was a one time use , but that isn't enough to put his speed below Sasuke which is what your argument based on.
Same chakra=/=Same amount. Whether you were comparing CE and VoTe doesn't matter. The fact that VoTE is superior means that you can't take VoTE Naruto's feats and apply them to CE Naruto. CE Naruto on his own does NOT have feats surpassing what Lee and Sasuke have done to Gaara's Sand unless you'd like to show me those speed feats.
Since Sasuke/Lee have superior feats, they are faster. That simple.
you have no proof that Sasuke w/ Lee's speed is faster than CE Kn0 Naruto. Kn0 Naruto had the feat of pushing Neji to his limits. while we all know that Neji had the reflexes and the reaction speed to defeat base Lee. if what you said was true then Lee w/o would've not even needed the Gates to beat Neji, which is false since Lee clearly said that he needed it.
Nope. This doesn't make sense. What is shown, stated and implied is that Neji can react to Base Lee well enough to defeat him in Taijutsu. It's not stated, shown or implied that Neji is fast enough to consistently avoid Base Lee's top speed. His reaction against Naruto is a reaction that would've ended in Lee's defeat because Lee doesn't have the firepower to break through Rotation. What does this mean?
Oh yes, that Neji's reaction speed as it is is enough to REACT to Base Lee and defeat him. This does NOT apply to Sasuke because Sasuke has a different moveset.
-Did he react to Naruto? Yes. Thus this point is wrong.
I agree. he was so fast that Neji couldn't even complete the rotation. but there is no proof that Lee's speed w/o wieghts let alone Sasuke's speed is supperior
So have I, but you keep bringing that stuff up like Neji Vs EMS Sasuke
Never done that
Only ever said Hinata wins if they start as close-range.
Kurotsuchi is weak, she has little to no offensive abilities, and anything she can muster up will be seen by Hinata's byakugan as the Chakra builds up, allowing her to dodge easily.
Again, please learn to tell what a joke is.
My arguments were shatted on? Why? By you simply disliking my post? Or are you referring to Rasta's awful counter?
Pointing out a misunderstanding? CE Neji can still refer to when he fought Hinata :lol Calm down.
Except this is a debate between two characters who have never fought, with the one and only deciding factor being whether Chidori would bypass on Neji's defenses and reflexes or not, with you yourself saying Sasuke can't win w/o Chidori. The two aren't even remotely the same in terms of what's considered "fact".
. Its one of the reasons Kishi drew his foot work
