War Arc Neji surpassed MS Sasuke's level

[NarutoX28]

Although its a good feat that doesn't change my strike speed argument Neji has against Sasuke since your argument is based on countering a attack thats built on a single strike (yes capable of stopping hand signs), along with parrying. Not necessary the same as Sasuke's own intentional strike speed, which isnt easier then blocking.

Not sure what you're arguing. Mifune and Sasuke aimed their blades and clashed simultaneously. He matched Mifune's physical reactions that surpasses Neji's which are actually noted to be fast. Neji has no such statements nor tangible striking feats that have enabled him to pressure elite opponents as Mifune did.

There no need for those specific measurements when scans gave Guy a specific panel with the intention to jump. While at the same time Neji's intention to take out the clones to save this team. Neji saved the team before Guy officially made his jump to Kisame. Thats all that matters for that argument that both simultaneously were in action.

If you want to quibble over technicalities, then we can also assume that 6th Gate Gai wasn't fast at all in that sequence since Lee had enough time to recuperate, catch his breath, and take note of the stance that Gai had taken before Gai even landed an attack on Kisame. Therefore, I see no reason why Mifune wouldn't be able to replicate that feat since 6th Gate Gai was proven to be slow in that instance.

That said, Sasuke managed to land an attack before V1 Raikage moved an inch. That's still a superior feat than what you had illustrated.

Hachibi's chakra was never exposed to Amterasu, dont know why you even brought that up.This particular ABC here doesnt work. You can't used that analogy unless you are willing to argue that Kaiken cant block a Kuma Shiruken because Hachici tail can easily be bisect from it. Fact is Amatersu Enton only succeed in burn through lightening chakra cloak. Any form other chakra shield had failed. Unless you are willing to aruge that Kaiken defense is as good as lightening cloak, then I can see your point.

I suggest you research what a Bijuu is. A Bijuu is a complete manifestation of chakra meaning that Amaterasu couldn't have hit anything other than the Hachibi's chakra.

Comparing a penetrative attack to Amaterasu is folly. There are explicitly different factors that measure a character's tolerance to that nature of attack that extend beyond the user's durability and chakra in contrast to Amaterasu where only durability and charka matter. You lecture me for making a faulty comparison yet you fail to make a comparison that is somewhat pertinent to Amaterasu. Kuma Shuriken is nothing like Amaterasu, do not ever compare the two.

If you're attempting to argue that the 2nd strongest embodiment of chakra is weaker than Kaiten, then go right ahead, but that claim is still asinine.

 

[NarutoX28]

But why wouldn't it get repelled on contact? It didn't instant burn through Naruto's thin cloak so idk whyy it would stick to kaiten long enough to burn when ntn suggest it would.

It's chakra wouldn't be potent enough to resist it.

Sasuke's Dojutsu was also weakened, thus, he couldn't use Amaterasu to his full potential. That is also a Rikudou enhanced cloak, so I wouldn't use that as an example.

 

[BLAZE]

Thats just better testament to Neji's strike speed. He leveled the ground, shown as his attempt to do a super jump.

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. It came from his stance ready to launch in the air.

what
kisame's strike send gai inside the lake [

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] and when gai opened 6th gate to fend of the sharks kisame was in mid air on where the surface of lake was [

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] while gai at bottom [

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]

at that moment neji destroys water prison and we see him ready to strike the 3 bunshins[2 of the still occupied with lee and tenten][

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]

rest of what neji did happened offscreen
Then gai goes on to strike kisame [

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] and we can see tenten and lee thanking Neji after that.we don't even know if neji striked the clone before or after gai went for kisame.
Then there is the fact gai and kisame didn't even engage till lee and tenten thanked neji while lee commented on his stance


yes neji's feats are good but its nothing close to 3T sasuke who can strike CS2 user 5 times in blink of eye [

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] or fend of Killer Bee's seven sword dance with minor injury despite not being healed from battle against itachi or dodge V1 Bee's lariat which only Raikage has avoided before him

 

[neosmith500]

It's chakra wouldn't be potent enough to resist it.

Sasuke's Dojutsu was also weakened, thus, he couldn't use Amaterasu to his full potential. That is also a Rikudou enhanced cloak, so I wouldn't use that as an example.

Literally makes no sense , ntn suggests that it wouldn't be repelled on contact. Downgrade that Rikudou cloak and Ama to normal and the same would happen. Ur competely ignoring the repelling and reflective nature of a spinning top Vs flames and acting as if Neji will be only trying to BLOCK with stationary Chakra. If Gaara's sand could BLOCK Ama then i dont see why a defense placed in the same league or superior would fail to do both but meh.

 

[NarutoX28]

Literally makes no sense , ntn suggests that it wouldn't be repelled on contact. Downgrade that Rikudou cloak and Ama to normal and the same would happen. Ur competely ignoring the repelling and reflective nature of a spinning top Vs flames and acting as if Neji will be only trying to BLOCK with stationary Chakra.

You are also ignoring how Sasuke was severely crippled and couldn't even use his Dojutsu effectively. Why would Amaterasu be used under these circumstances? Why would a measly KN1 cloak be as sturdy as the Cereberus or the Hachibi? That literally makes little sense.

I'm not ignoring it. Amaterasu has the features to burn through Kaiten. Amaterasu did so against Muki Tensei and rendered the characteristics of the jutsu useless, so Amaterasu renders the rotational energy of Kaiten entirely useless as well. It is contingent upon chakra and cannot be used when it's being burned incessantly.

 

[BLAZE]

You are also ignoring how Sasuke was severely crippled and couldn't even use his Dojutsu effectively.

actually he couldn't use his left eye at all after single amaterasu [

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]

and don't see why kaiten won't deflect it away but still there is the fact sasuke can still target the flames back at neji either via enton or how itachi did against him

 

[neosmith500]

You are also ignoring how Sasuke was severely crippled and couldn't even use his Dojutsu effectively. Why would Amaterasu be used under these circumstances? Why would a measly KN1 cloak be as sturdy as the Cereberus or the Hachibi? That literally makes little sense.

Which is irrelevant as Sasuke made no such note of that hampering that effect of his Amaterasu and instead said it was simply of no use. Why would a Ama on the same level as VOTE2 used by a MS level Sasuke burn through a measly KN1 cloak? it wouldn't because the same thing could happen. The hachibi and cerberus are made of flesh and its not like Amaterasu instantly charred through them.

I'm not ignoring it. Amaterasu has the features to burn through Kaiten. Amaterasu did so against Muki Tensei and rendered the characteristics of the jutsu useless, so Amaterasu renders the rotational energy of Kaiten entirely useless as well. It is contingent upon chakra and cannot be used when it's being burned incessantly.

Yes u are because Literally ntn at all is stopping it from getting repelled when Samurai armor could hold out against it for awhile before getting removed neg diff. Ntn suggest that it would Blast pass kaiten any easier than it did the Samurai's armor which would logically be much weaker than Neji's Chakra dome much less Kaiten.

It cant incessantly burn something that would repel it on contact my bro.

 

[NarutoX28]

actually he couldn't use his left eye at all after single amaterasu [

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]

and don't see why kaiten won't deflect it away but still there is the fact sasuke can still target the flames back at neji either via enton or how itachi did against him

That's fine, but that's equivalent of arguing that Rasengan can be used to repel Amaterasu. I don't subscribe to the notion that any repulsion force can do away with Amaterasu.

 

[BLAZE]

That's fine, but that's equivalent of arguing that Rasengan can be used to repel Amaterasu. I don't subscribe to the notion that any repulsion force can do away with Amaterasu.

nah
rasengan forms only in hand while rotations chakra cacoon all over the body.If neji/hiashi will spin before amaterasu can consume the cacoon[literally no reason to believe they can't] i don't see why it won't get deflected away from them

 

[NarutoX28]

Which is irrelevant as Sasuke made no such note of that hampering that effect of his Amaterasu and instead said it was simply of no use. Why would a Ama on the same level as VOTE2 used by a MS level Sasuke burn through a measly KN1 cloak? it wouldn't because the same thing could happen. The hachibi and cerberus are made of flesh and its not like Amaterasu instantly charred through them.

There doesn't need to be a statement. If you're arguing that Sasuke with garbage eyes can use Amaterasu as well as Sasuke who is at full-strength, then I don't know what to tell you. We witnessed what happened to Kakashi after being rendered blind and he could hardly use Kamui as well as he did at his peak. That's excluding how Kakashi wasn't in grave condition like Sasuke was as we witnessed him staggering immediately after using said jutsu. These principles apply to Kakashi, but not Sasuke under more extreme conditions? That's intellectually dishonest.

You use the term flesh, but aren't our flesh composed of cells? Aren't these cells containers for chakra? Regardless of what term you use, the Hachibi and Cerebrus alike can be seen as embodiments of chakra. The former should be especially since the only thing the Hachibi is comprised of is chakra, that is essentially what a Bijuu is.

Yes u are because Literally ntn at all is stopping it from getting repelled when Samurai armor could hold out against it for awhile before getting removed neg diff. Ntn suggest that it would Blast pass kaiten any easier than it did the Samurai's armor which would logically be much weaker than Neji's Chakra dome much less Kaiten.

It cant incessantly burn something that would repel it on contact my bro.

Amaterasu wasn't focused on the Samurai compared to here where Amaterasu is being focused on Kaiten. Stop resorting to low-end feats that have no relation to targeting a structure imbued with chakra. Samurais are coated in armor, the Hachibi and Neji alike are coated in chakra. There's a stark contrast between the two, don't get it twisted.

It can't repel something when the substance that confers these properties are being incinerated. Likewise, just because Kaiten has these repulsion properties doesn't mean it instantly deflects all jutsu. Amaterasu is a more potent jutsu that can be launched in an even greater quantity (Sasuke vs. Itachi or Sasuke vs. Bee illustrates that). Even if Kaiten has said properties, it doesn't give it the ability to automatically repel it. That's superficial.

 

[NarutoX28]

nah
rasengan forms only in hand while rotations chakra cacoon all over the body.If neji/hiashi will spin before amaterasu can consume the cacoon[literally no reason to believe they can't] i don't see why it won't get deflected away from them

I know that, that's pretty obvious.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

what
kisame's strike send gai inside the lake [

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] and when gai opened 6th gate to fend of the sharks kisame was in mid air on where the surface of lake was [

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] while gai at bottom [

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]

Correct.

at that moment neji destroys water prison and we see him ready to strike the 3 bunshins[2 of the still occupied with lee and tenten][

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]

Correct. But look at that very scan of Guys intent to jump. First panel to read.

rest of what neji did happened offscreen
Then gai goes on to strike kisame [

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] and we can see tenten and lee thanking Neji after that.we don't even know if neji striked the clone before or after gai went for kisame.
Then there is the fact gai and kisame didn't even engage till lee and tenten thanked neji while lee commented on his stance

Correct. @underline: That means that Neji had to finish before Gai attempted to strike as Lee had the chance to acknowledge Guys stance.

@Bold, yes we do know since the clone would had interfere with Lee's comment.

@STRIKE: That would be incorrect since the panel already shows Guy making it towards Kisame before he made the stance via link 5, first read panel.

yes neji's feats are good but its nothing close to 3T sasuke who can strike CS2 user 5 times in blink of eye [

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] or fend of Killer Bee's seven sword dance with minor injury despite not being healed from battle against itachi or dodge V1 Bee's lariat which only Raikage has avoided before him

1. We dont know the stats of that CS2 user to determine or measure the feat in comparison to Neji's. So how do you know that the 5 strike blitz against that character is superior to the strike Neji did when comparing to 6 gates Guy mid blitzing Kisame? Because to that CS2 user its fast but to Deidara, the strike is avoidable in his standards.

2. Parrying is not the same feat as accomplishing a intentional strike yourself

3. Never argued that Neji had better reaction feats then Sasuke.

Not sure what you're arguing. Mifune and Sasuke aimed their blades and clashed simultaneously. He matched Mifune's physical reactions that surpasses Neji's which are actually noted to be fast. Neji has no such statements nor tangible striking feats that have enabled him to pressure elite opponents as Mifune did.

No ones arguing over reaction. Your point here only notes Sasuke reaction speed and the ability to physical parry the speed of Mifunes strike.

If you want to quibble over technicalities, then we can also assume that 6th Gate Gai wasn't fast at all in that sequence since Lee had enough time to recuperate, catch his breath, and take note of the stance that Gai had taken before Gai even landed an attack on Kisame. Therefore, I see no reason why Mifune wouldn't be able to replicate that feat since 6th Gate Gai was proven to be slow in that instance.

That would be reaching on your behalf because that is Kisimoto writing using Lee as a narrative standpoint of view. It doesnt change the fact that Neji finished before Guys mid blitz.

That said, Sasuke managed to land an attack before V1 Raikage moved an inch. That's still a superior feat than what you had illustrated.

Im assuming the scenario where Ay use elbow? Because that scenario Ay got to him first, only for Sasuke to read through it, dodge, and strike an opening. How do we know Ay strike speed is even superior, without him blitzing?

I suggest you research what a Bijuu is. A Bijuu is a complete manifestation of chakra meaning that Amaterasu couldn't have hit anything other than the Hachibi's chakra.

Not to be taken out of context that they become the living with flesh and bones. Capable of dying.

Comparing a penetrative attack to Amaterasu is folly. There are explicitly different factors that measure a character's tolerance to that nature of attack that extend beyond the user's durability and chakra in contrast to Amaterasu where only durability and charka matter. You lecture me for making a faulty comparison yet you fail to make a comparison that is somewhat pertinent to Amaterasu. Kuma Shuriken is nothing like Amaterasu, do not ever compare the two.

That was intentional to use folly logic. Because I was following yours.

If you're attempting to argue that the 2nd strongest embodiment of chakra is weaker than Kaiten, then go right ahead, but that claim is still asinine.

Its asinine to compare a giant flesh monster to an actual chakra shroud. You wouldnt argue that V1 or V2 Hachibi chakra mode gets the same treatment as full BM so dont use that logic to the properties of Kaiten to make your comparison.

 

[neosmith500]

There doesn't need to be a statement. If you're arguing that Sasuke with garbage eyes can use Amaterasu as well as Sasuke who is at full-strength, then I don't know what to tell you. We witnessed what happened to Kakashi after being rendered blind and he could hardly use Kamui as well as he did at his peak. That's excluding how Kakashi wasn't in grave condition like Sasuke was as we witnessed him staggering immediately after using said jutsu. These principles apply to Kakashi, but not Sasuke under more extreme conditions? That's intellectually dishonest.

Its irrelevant because Amaterasu of similar size used by a full-strength Sasuke would still get negged by a V1 Cloak from a full-strength Naruto. This only changes it Sasuke attempts a larger scaled Amaterasu than wat he canonically does against human sized enemies.

You use the term flesh, but aren't our flesh composed of cells? Aren't these cells containers for chakra? Regardless of what term you use, the Hachibi and Cerebrus alike can be seen as embodiments of chakra. The former should be especially since the only thing the Hachibi is comprised of is chakra.

Chidori spear which is weaker than chidori cuts through Hachibi like butter , but ntn suggest that it would cut through Kaiten with as much ease. Likewise with it being able to cut through cerberus. Son Goku is the same but its clear as day the he's still made of flesh and isn't coated in super thick Chakra but instead flesh.

Amaterasu wasn't focused on the Samurai compared to here where Amaterasu is being focused on Kaiten. Stop resorting to low-end feats that have no relation to targeting a structure imbued with chakra. Samurais are coated in armor, the Hachibi and Neji alike are coated in chakra. There's a stark contrast between the two, don't get it twisted.

Irrelevant because Amaterasu was focused on Aye who was standing directly in front of the Samurai so do the maths. Ur notion of Ama bypassing Kaiten easier than it did simple armor is based on ntn. Hachibi isn't COATED in Chakra , it being a Chakra creature doesn't mean it wasn't given flesh by the SO6P.

It can't repel something when the substance that confers these properties are being incinerated. Likewise, just because Kaiten has these repulsion properties doesn't mean it instantly deflects all jutsu. Amaterasu is a more potent jutsu that can be launched in an even greater quantity (Sasuke vs. Itachi or Sasuke vs. Bee illustrates that). Even if Kaiten has said properties, it doesn't give it the ability to automatically repel it. That's superficial.

[/QUOTE]

Amaterasu didn't do anything to Kangkuro's Chakra threads with its heat , even tho they never touched it based on ur logic the heat should've had some type of effect on the threads that were in very close proximity. Ama having that specific effect on the dynamics of Muki teneie doesn't mean it would have the same effect on Kaiten and/or Chakra itself when its heat didn't do a thing to Chakra threads that were closer than Muki Tensie and neither is Ama instanly charring through it when it failed to do so against Samurai Armor.

 

[BLAZE]

Correct. But look at that very scan of Guys intent to jump. First panel to read.
Correct. @underline: That means that Neji had to finish before Gai attempted to strike as Lee had the chance to acknowledge Guys stance.
@STRIKE: That would be incorrect since the panel already shows Guy making it towards Kisame before he made the stance via link 5, first read panel.
1. We dont know the stats of that CS2 user to determine or measure the feat in comparison to Neji's. So how do you know that the 5 strike blitz against that character is superior to the strike Neji did when comparing to 6 gates Guy mid blitzing Kisame? Because to that CS2 user its fast but to Deidara, the strike is avoidable in his standards.

Which literally means nothing since gai didn't jump till then

you can clearly see neji using one body blow then landing on water then getting ready to strike the 3 clones
don't think you will yourself believe if gai wanted he won't have jumped by then

The simple fact is gai jumped later
that does not mean neji is fast enough to use one body blow then land on water and then strike 3 clones before 6th gate gai can jump

2. Parrying is not the same feat as accomplishing a intentional strike yourself

parrying with someone with far superior speed than neji along with the fact he is using 7 swords to strike does mean he can fend of neji's strikes

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Which literally means nothing since gai didn't jump till then

Right and Neji also didnt strike till.

you can clearly see neji using one body blow then landing on water then getting ready to strike the 3 clones
don't think you will yourself believe if gai wanted he won't have jumped by then

I dont. The panel intention shows both Gai (first panel) and Neji (last panel) getting ready to end it. So my argument is based on their starting positions to end the fight.

The simple fact is gai jumped later
that does not mean neji is fast enough to use one body blow then land on water and then strike 3 clones before 6th gate gai can jump

Read above.

parrying with someone with far superior speed than neji along with the fact he is using 7 swords to strike does mean he can fend of neji's strikes

My premise never said Sasuke cant keep up with Neji in CQC. My premise made clear (since my first post) that Neji will get the best of him CQC.

Ill continue later, night.

 

[Amenotejikara]

Ridiculous thread. Sasuke reaction and movement feats >>> nejis. Result would be the same as KN0 vs p1 neji.

 

[Alien X]

Well considering she does not have long to live her prime is probably not far off.

"Considering she does not have long to live"....do you even consider a reason for that fanfiction?

 

[BLAZE]

Right and Neji also didnt strike till.

I dont. The panel intention shows both Gai (first panel) and Neji (last panel) getting ready to end it. So my argument is based on their starting positions to end the fight.
Read above

And the panel actually show guy moving and engaging after lee and tenten thanks neji so but everything neji did was offpanel so either

1.If Neji finished the clones before gai decided to move your point is literally moot

2.It you are saying no Neji did it after gai moved and has some kind insane striking speed superior to 6 gate gai the logic is faulty itself when base gai was fast enough to disarm kisame [

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] while kisame was himself fast enough to make 3 clones and defend himself before team 10 can strike [

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][

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] including neji

next part thats faulty is neji was very close to the clones and his team mates [

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] and has to only engage with bunshins that gets popped up even by single strike of kunai from a genin [

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][

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][

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] or from a single stab[

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] unlike gai who was literally far away from kisame and didn't engage him till lee and tenten completed their statement
so its nothing special in neji taking out 3 mushi bunshin when 2 of them couldn't even move becoz they were using water prison.nor is his striking speed anywhere close to 6th gated gai's movement like you are implying

My premise never said Sasuke cant keep up with Neji in CQC. My premise made clear (since my first post) that Neji will get the best of him CQC.

Lmfao what.
So according to you sasuke with better speed;reaction and precog that can parry much faster chars unorthodox fighting style with 7 swords[where sharingan is useless] will get bested by neji in cqc :lol
Sasuke would be using a raiton enhaced blade while neji his hands covered chakra.Only thing neji is gonna do is get paralyzed and die if he tries to engage in cqc

 

[Hakke]

He doesn't have any counters. His speed is shit compared to MS and Hebi Sasuke. His CQC is shit. His Ninjutsu is shit. Sasuke is so hilariously under-rated here.

Actually according to the 3rd DB Neji's speed is 4.5, that is equal to Hebi Sasuke speed. And it is true that Sasuke has a better shunshin , but Neji has 360 degree of vision and a greater hand speed.

 

[Brooks]

Self-delusion is a powerful thing.