[Predictions] One Piece Manga Chapter 856 Discussion and 857 Predictions

[LBeezy]

Again, I am not disputing that Luffy might be immune to that technique. I am disputing the notion that that one MAYBE immunity is going to play a big role in making or breaking this fight.

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The manga > Riker

 

[Punk Hazard]

As of now, yes anything else is speculative. You can grant her all the speculative powers you'd like I have no qualms about that, just remember it next time you give someone shit for talking hypothetically.

Your claim relies on things that are pure speculation as well.

Your claim relies on the assumption that that is a major technique of Big Mom's.
Your claim relies on the assumption that Big Mom has no other techniques as effective as that one.
Your claim relies on the assumption that if Big Mom has other techniques that are as effective, they also need fear
Your claim relies on the assumption Big Mom has no other means of battle that can be good against Luffy.

Those are too many assumptions to take your claim seriously. It's one thing to guess and assume, but you're trying to pass your claims off as legitimate, as though it's based on pure manga facts when the only "fact" is that a person said "Don't cower" when Big Mom took her son's lifespan away. You're reaching, and that's what I'm calling BS on.

What other uses? placing a soul? That's not gonna help her offensively if she can't take it to begin with. I never said her fruit revolves around fear, her only known offensive tech with it is though. That's irrefutable(unless there's a tech I can't recall right now)

I never said it would. That's the difference between you and I. I'm not making claims about what's going to happen based on what came from my imagination, and then trying to pass it off as manga fact.

It being her only known offensive tech with her DF though would turn the tide if it ends up being ineffective because we've seen her power level during a rampage,

lmao no we haven't. Thinking a mindless rampage is the same thing as fighting effectively is laughable at best.

Not what I said at all, I said you're claiming BM has more techs then we've seen her use.

I'm not claiming it, I'm assuming it. You're the only one making claims here.

I'm saying you're doing what you jump on others for,

No I'm not cause I haven't once made the argument that Big Mom is for sure gonna pull something out to fight off Luffy. I acknowledge that my assumption is nothing more than an assumption based off of minimal knowledge, hence why I've refrained from making any claims one way or another about how Luffy will fare against the fruit.

It's probably for the best since the only thing you've had to say to it was, "well placing souls doesn't take fear"(not offensive irrelevant in a vs discussion) and "She may have other techniques to fight with"

See the first part of my post.

 

[chopstickchakra]

Your claim relies on things that are pure speculation as well.

There's a difference between pure speculation and speculation. speculation has a basis on something that was shown where pure speculation is nothing more than what you want to happen regardless of any hint. There is nothing that indicates BM has more DF techs. claiming she does is pure speculation.

Your claim relies on the assumption that that is a major technique of Big Mom's.

Because it's one of the only two we've seen and it is responsible for most of her territory. So yes I assume it's a major tech BECAUSE of it's presentation and implied significance to her territories.

Your claim relies on the assumption that Big Mom has no other techniques as effective as that one.

If the author hasn't shown anything you can assume there's nothing else, if the author doesn't showcase anything you can't assume there's more there. If I paint a picture you can see what's there, you don't go assuming there's a person hidden in the background.

Your claim relies on the assumption that if Big Mom has other techniques that are as effective, they also need fear

Never said that, straw(hat)man. My claim is her most effective known offensive ability may be ineffective against Luffy. I've already acknowledged if we learn of new techs that would alter my claim but my claim is based on only the information available presently.

Your claim relies on the assumption Big Mom has no other means of battle that can be good against Luffy.

See previous reply and previous posts. I've said IF she has unseen strengths then that would change things but given what we've seen if she can't take Luffy's soul/years then her power alone won't be enough to outclass Luffy. You keep saying other means, well I'm asking you what are these other means? If you don't have anything to add then why keep bringing it up?

Those are too many assumptions to take your claim seriously. It's one thing to guess and assume, but you're trying to pass your claims off as legitimate, as though it's based on pure manga facts when the only "fact" is that a person said "Don't cower" when Big Mom took her son's lifespan away. You're reaching, and that's what I'm calling BS on.

So it's reaching to conclude that BM's ability is related to the fear the person whose soul is being taken feels despite it implying this to be the case in the manga. And how exactly a I passing it on as fact when I've said if every single time and acknowledged if BM has more that we've yet to see then this no longer applies? I don't think you wanna bring up ideas pushed as fact because you've been championing the BM/Kaidou altercation for months now as if it's a guarantee to happen, saying things like it'd be illogical,unoriginal or bad writing if it didn't.



I never said it would. That's the difference between you and I. I'm not making claims about what's going to happen based on what came from my imagination, and then trying to pass it off as manga fact.


lmao no we haven't. Thinking a mindless rampage is the same thing as fighting effectively is laughable at best.


I'm not claiming it, I'm assuming it. You're the only one making claims here.


No I'm not cause I haven't once made the argument that Big Mom is for sure gonna pull something out to fight off Luffy. I acknowledge that my assumption is nothing more than an assumption based off of minimal knowledge, hence why I've refrained from making any claims one way or another about how Luffy will fare against the fruit.



See the first part of my post.[/QUOTE]

 

[Punk Hazard]

There's a difference between pure speculation and speculation. speculation has a basis on something that was shown where pure speculation is nothing more than what you want to happen regardless of any hint. There is nothing that indicates BM has more DF techs. claiming she does is pure speculation.

Except those assumptions have no basis. That's why they're speculation.

Because it's one of the only two

Gonna stop you right there because that says everything that needs to be said to show how dumb what you're saying is.

If the author hasn't shown anything you can assume there's nothing else,

This is a very dumb thing to say in general, and especially about One Piece.

if the author doesn't showcase anything you can't assume there's more there. If I paint a picture you can see what's there, you don't go assuming there's a person hidden in the background.

Yes, because that's what Oda did by showing two things from Big Mom's fruit.

Never said that, straw(hat)man. My claim is her most effective known offensive ability may be ineffective against Luffy.

Bolded parts are the keywords as to why you can't follow this up with "So the battle will be turned towards Luffy's favor.

I've already acknowledged if we learn of new techs that would alter my claim but my claim is based on only the information available presently.

Your claim is based on seeing a tiny piece of information and then making a very wide claim. The evidence does not match the scope of your claim by a long-shot.

See previous reply and previous posts. I've said IF she has unseen strengths then that would change things

This changes nothing about what I said or works as a reply. All you're doing is saying "If you are right, I am wrong," which adds nothing to this debate but fluff your post so it looks like you have something to say.

but given what we've seen if she can't take Luffy's soul/years then her power alone won't be enough to outclass Luffy.

Again, you have not seen enough to make this broad a claim.

You keep saying other means, well I'm asking you what are these other means? If you don't have anything to add then why keep bringing it up?

*Sigh*

So it's reaching to conclude that BM's ability is related to the fear the person whose soul is being taken feels despite it implying this to be the case in the manga.

It's reaching to say one technique failing=fight turns to Luffy's favor. That only works if that one technique is all the fruit has to offer, and there is not enough to support that claim, so the claim is weak.

I don't think you wanna bring up ideas pushed as fact because you've been championing the BM/Kaidou altercation for months now as if it's a guarantee to happen, saying things like it'd be illogical,unoriginal or bad writing if it didn't.

The bolded and the underlined are not the same thing, nor do they go hand in hand. I can make the underlined comments because of objective and subjective aspects of this manga and the writing of manga in general, which I did.

Not once did I say that Big Mom and Kaido are a guarantee to fight. Also, your claim that Big Mom's fruit will be at a disadvantage against Luffy has nowhere the amount of support as Big Mom/Kaido. Don't try to compare those again.

 

[Itachi Minato]

Weren't you the one just talking about not basing opinions on possibilities? The only way we've seen her fruit work was mentioned to be connected to fear. We can't base opinions on what might happen, right? Or does that not apply now because it's you doing it? What BM might have is irrelevant, right? What is relevant is what we've seen and know

I love how you guys feel the need to point out it's an assumption(as if I hadn't pointed that out already), you sound like the people that pop in WWF comments to say wrestling is fake. Well no shit.

@Itachi nothing really shows Luffy was physically stronger than Doffy excluding G4 which is only a temporary scenario anyway. Doffy was from what I saw equal to Luffy or slightly above in most stats. The showing we got of BM's physical strength doesn't imply that to me.

My point was that even though Luffy was superior in G4 he still couldn't defeat him. And honestly, do you think Oda is going to show BM full power through a rampage? Hes not going to have her destroy an island just cos shes pissed. Personally, it will feel really cheap if Luffy beats BM due to an advantage. He beat Cracker with Namis help plus he had an advantage there as well. The ability to eat endless amounts. He beat Doffy with a whole islands help.I don't mind if Luffy wins every now and then with some kind of advantage but its getting kind of cheap if he keeps getting some kind of help. I want Luffy to beat BM because he is stronger than her.
Edit: You seriously think that BM DF is going to be that one dimensional? I don't think we have a ever seen a devil fruit be used in such a poor way if that is the only thing she can do and she is meant to be a bloody yonko. I also don't think that Luffy is the only person who doesn't feel fear. Kid is the same pretty much the same. She seems to have had interactions with Roger, I doubt he feared her. I think it was said he stole her poneglyph? Cant remember exactly

 

[LBeezy]

My point was that even though Luffy was superior in G4 he still couldn't defeat him. And honestly, do you think Oda is going to show BM full power through a rampage? Hes not going to have her destroy an island just cos shes pissed. Personally, it will feel really cheap if Luffy beats BM due to an advantage. He beat Cracker with Namis help plus he had an advantage there as well. The ability to eat endless amounts. He beat Doffy with a whole islands help.I don't mind if Luffy wins every now and then with some kind of advantage but its getting kind of cheap if he keeps getting some kind of help. I want Luffy to beat BM because he is stronger than her.
Edit: You seriously think that BM DF is going to be that one dimensional? I don't think we have a ever seen a devil fruit be used in such a poor way if that is the only thing she can do and she is meant to be a bloody yonko. I also don't think that Luffy is the only person who doesn't feel fear. Kid is the same pretty much the same. She seems to have had interactions with Roger, I doubt he feared her. I think it was said he stole her poneglyph? Cant remember exactly

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