SRA Neji vs. VoTE (3-Tomoe) Sasuke

[Mad Titan Thanos]

I think this is situation where we need to ignore actual feats because feats are mostly dictated by plot.We need to go by manga portrayal about Neji and common sense.

I think he wins.

 

[neosmith500]

Restricting Jyuken style is like restricting Neji's Taijutsu as a whole due to the fact thats its the exact contrast to Gai and lees style where they use chakra to amp their taijutsu and high physical power so they can easily break bones and pull their super feats which likely applies to Sasuke also.

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This should mean that Sasuke should be much weaker here than when he destroyed KN0 with Taijutsu strikes , Neji is easily getting the bigger restiction here due to the loss of his tenketsu/organ jabs along with mostly any form of subtle and swift Taijutsu that revolves around his style since its entirely based on subtle chakra use aimed for internal damage , his strikes will be completely useless against Base Sasuke's durability which is above even KN0 and his previous CM1 incarnation before leaving the leaf since he tanked multiple hits from KN0 in base who was physically a monster and was stronger than sasuke along with the fact that CM1 Sasuke before awakening pill was easily put down with a single hit by CM1 Sakon who is physically weaker than KN0 , meanwhile Neji cant use chakra at all to bypass this and Sasuke isn't getting hit by linear heavy hits , only skilled maneuvers when in straight up taijutsu.


Based on both their individual fighting styles Neji has always been the non aggressor when it comes to martial arts which makes it highly likely that Sasuke will be throwing the first punch and rushing in as he's always done in canon. This is where fighting styles , Doujutsu ability , physical ability and Taijutsu strength comes into play.

As we've seen in canon the strength/skill of persons Taijutsu can play a small role in overcoming the sharingans precog when the two fighters are of relatively equal speeds.

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In a straight up fight with Neji especially where Sasuke is the aggressor i could easily see Neji anticpating his attack and reacting to its speed since Lee needed the 5G combo in order to bypass prelims neji's physical reaction by avoiding Neji's counter-reaction since lees moving so fast he cant be touched , so i dont see how a Sasuke who rushes into a straight confrontation doesn't get reacted to and then outperformed when he attacks since kishi implied lee needed 5G to deal with a exponentially weaker Neji in all physical reaction , stats and skill.

But Sasuke is easily much more durable than Neji after his awakening pill and wont even feel any of Neji's hits and due to his Sharingan i see him understanding the flow of Neji's taijutsu so he can start to read and match/outperform him in later exchanges and his style is literally the same as Gai's where heavy hits are the aim so i dont see how Neji wins this in the long run even if he can easily evade Sasuke's attacks for a long duration , without his style and having to be restrained to heavy attacks which wont even budge his enemy while Sasuke still has his style apart from physical chakra amp.

Sasuke wins this Med diff to high diff with Jyuken restricted and neg/low diff in a fair Taijutsu fight. imo.

 

[KidGamer65]

I honestly find it difficult to see how Sasuke wins here. Neji was portrayed as a taijutsu master for the whole of part 1 and it is a fact that the secret to defeating CE prelims Neji was the high speed combo (fast strike attacks?) granted by ura renge.
SRA Neji >>>>>>> CE prelims Neji in all stats.

Strength? Yes Sasuke is strong but CE prelims Neji faced a Rock Lee strong enough to casually dig into the ground and uproot a root of a tree(?) (

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) (

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).
SRA Neji >>>>>>> CE prelims Neji.

Like I said to FT, KN0 Naruto beat Neji and he didn't absolutely need to have speed on par Gated Lee. He didn't need any sort of high speed combo. At best this statement proves that Sasuke's own speed is something that Neji should be able to easily react to, but that's not something that anyone doubted in the first place.

Neji's a Taijutsu master, but if Neji had foregone Rotation and just attacked Naruto with his fists when they fought during the Chunnin Exams it's obvious who would've won. Manga has shown so many times that being a Taijutsu master or being more skilled isn't the most important factor when talking about who wins in CQC, especially when the other party has abilities that enhance their Taijutsu ability (Sharingan).

Neji facing Rock Lee doesn't put Neji's strength on par with Rock Lee's. DB and feats already put Sasuke's strength above Neji's anyway. Disabling KN0 with his bare hands is one of them. Assuming that's the point you were trying to make.

As far as i know, 3T isn't increasing one's striking speed and it doesn't read defensive movements. Neji's/Hyuga's taijutsu style is all about defensive attacks. (

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) (

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).
The only occasions i can recollect a hyuga going on the offensive are Hinata going on the offensive against Neji (which makes sense as both can't stay on the defensive) and Neji going on the offensive when he was confused as to how Naruto reopened his tenketsu.

When you are just attacking, no, but when responding to an enemy attack yes because it betters timing, and not sure how the bold makes sense. Your scans don't support that statement and Neji's style of Taijutsu is still clearly offense and he makes clear offensive moves when he attacks so Sharingan will easily read his movements. Him responding to an enemy attack would mean he's on the defensive side, but it doesn't mean that his actual movements are defensive.

The Hyuga also then specialize in circular defensive movements that enhance their body speed to evade, deflect and parry attacks. Neji in particular hasn't outright blocked any attack i'm aware of.

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When i consider these + the fact that SRA Neji >>>>> CE prelims/final Neji, i then fail to see how Sasuke would even be able to tag Neji at all.

Lmao how? You haven't provided any kind of feat that'd lead anyone to believe that Neji can't be tagged by Sasuke. This is the same thing I told neosmith when we argued Naruto vs. this same Neji. Scans of Neji embarrassing Hinata in CQC and then stating that SRA Neji is >>> that Neji doesn't hold your claim up on it's own when VoTE Sasuke and CE Hinata are that far apart in terms of literally everything, and you are exaggerating the gap between SRA Neji and CE Final Neji. Difference is noticeable, it's not humongous.

Finally, Neji obviously isn't using the chakra closing ability of 64 palms

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but using the speed of the 64 palm strike to deflect the spiders. It isn't then far fetched to say Neji can use the speed of the 64 palm strike in form of fists strikes on Sasuke right?

I can agree here, but it doesn't mean that he'll win as I've explained in my other posts.

He doesn't use jyuken

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. That is a simple palm thrust carrying enough force to draw blood. Surely with the strength there inside the fists he'll use in the 64 strikes he'll be able to body Sasuke real bad.
Also, SRA Neji >>>>>> CE prelims Neji in all stats.

Yeah, a palm thrust to the neck, of Hinata. Hinata is physically nowhere near Sasuke's level, but I agree that Sasuke isn't going to just shrug off any attack from Neji, but they aren't doing damage as serious as that to him, especially if he doesn't hit him in the neck like he did Hinata.

Okay. In your previous response you said, "Neji wouldn't beat KN0 Naruto in CQC w/o having access to his Ninjutsu". So I'm assuming that was just a typo then. That's why I was confused.

If this is just ordinary taijutsu, then yeah, it's a complete different story. Neji doesn't ordinarily rely on strength behind his strikes anyways, it's all his Jūken chakra. So if they're trading blows, Sasuke will end up winning.

@ Bold, displaying Sasuke avoiding Naruto's punch isn't an impressive enough feat to say he can do the same to Neji's 64 palms. Even if Sasuke evades in that matter, he still needs to out strike Neji who is going to be repeatedly striking at him. As Neji progresses his strikes, they become faster and faster. I still don't see how Sasuke is coming out of this scenario as the winner.




I'm trying to translate both scenarios into speed and physical reactions. Naruto was never too fast for Neji to handle. 5G Lee's Ura Renga was supposed to be so fast that Neji wouldn't be able to touch him. There is a difference there. My point was in order to beat SRA Neji, it would require more than what Naruto and Lee had going for them, because obviously SRA Neji is faster with better reactions then his weaker versions.

Yeah lol my bad. Definitely a typo.

If he evades in that manner it doesn't become a matter of simply who has the faster striking speed. If Neji lunges at Sasuke and Sasuke dodges like he did to Naruto, then it puts

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, the area he's striking from, pointed away from Sasuke's body while Sasuke himself is still in a perfect position to kick or strike Neji. Only difference from the scan I linked above is that Sasuke might have to do more than just move his body to the side since Neji won't be coming at him with the same kind of power Naruto did.

Or he can block/parry the first two strikes and respond with a strike of his own preventing Neji from continuing the sequence.

And Sasuke has way more going for him than Naruto as he already obliterated a stronger version of that same Naruto in CQC. Saying that Sasuke needs to perform better than 5G Lee w/ Ura Renge doesn't work as an argument because someone who can't perform at Lee's level like that managed to defeat Neji.

Basically Lee's answer to beating Neji was being fast enough to basically blitz him, but that's not the only way to beat Neji. If you are only making the point that based on this statement, Sasuke's speed can be handled by Neji then yeah, I agree, but if you are using this statement to say that Neji beats Sasuke because Sasuke isn't going to outperform 5G Lee then I disagree.

 

[KidGamer65]

I think this is situation where we need to ignore actual feats because feats are mostly dictated by plot.We need to go by manga portrayal about Neji and common sense.

I think he wins.

Lmao don't bring that wank here. Neji w/ nothing but his own bare hands being portrayed above the guy who demolished KN0 with his bare hands is pure nonsense.

Basically: "I'm gonna ignore the feats because I think Neji should win and the feats don't agree with me".

L-M-A-O. Sorry pal. Not today.

 

[EZQ]

Restricting Jyuken style is like restricting Neji's Taijutsu as a whole due to the fact thats its the exact contrast to Gai and lees style where they use chakra to amp their taijutsu and high physical power so they can easily break bones and pull their super feats which likely applies to Sasuke also.

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This should mean that Sasuke should be much weaker here than when he destroyed KN0 with Taijutsu strikes , Neji is easily getting the bigger restiction here due to the loss of his tenketsu/organ jabs along with mostly any form of subtle and swift Taijutsu that revolves around his style since its entirely based on subtle chakra use aimed for internal damage , his strikes will be completely useless against Base Sasuke's durability which is above even KN0 and his previous CM1 incarnation before leaving the leaf since he tanked multiple hits from KN0 in base who was physically a monster and was stronger than sasuke along with the fact that CM1 Sasuke before awakening pill was easily put down with a single hit by CM1 Sakon who is physically weaker than KN0 , meanwhile Neji cant use chakra at all to bypass this and Sasuke isn't getting hit by linear heavy hits , only skilled maneuvers when in straight up taijutsu.


Based on both their individual fighting styles Neji has always been the non aggressor when it comes to martial arts which makes it highly likely that Sasuke will be throwing the first punch and rushing in as he's always done in canon. This is where fighting styles , Doujutsu ability , physical ability and Taijutsu strength comes into play.

As we've seen in canon the strength/skill of persons Taijutsu can play a small role in overcoming the sharingans precog when the two fighters are of relatively equal speeds.

Spoiler

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In a straight up fight with Neji especially where Sasuke is the aggressor i could easily see Neji anticpating his attack and reacting to its speed since Lee needed the 5G combo in order to bypass prelims neji's physical reaction by avoiding Neji's counter-reaction since lees moving so fast he cant be touched , so i dont see how a Sasuke who rushes into a straight confrontation doesn't get reacted to and then outperformed when he attacks since kishi implied lee needed 5G to deal with a exponentially weaker Neji in all physical reaction , stats and skill.

But Sasuke is easily much more durable than Neji after his awakening pill and wont even feel any of Neji's hits and due to his Sharingan i see him understanding the flow of Neji's taijutsu so he can start to read and match/outperform him in later exchanges and his style is literally the same as Gai's where heavy hits are the aim so i dont see how Neji wins this in the long run even if he can easily evade Sasuke's attacks for a long duration , without his style and having to be restrained to heavy attacks which wont even budge his enemy while Sasuke still has his style apart from physical chakra amp.

Sasuke wins this Med diff imo.

I like this post because you reminded how badass Zabuza was at that moment.

 

[Jinrou]

Like I said to FT, KN0 Naruto beat Neji and he didn't absolutely need to have speed on par Gated Lee. He didn't need any sort of high speed combo. At best this statement proves that Sasuke's own speed is something that Neji should be able to easily react to, but that's not something that anyone doubted in the first place.

Neji's a Taijutsu master, but if Neji had foregone Rotation and just attacked Naruto with his fists when they fought during the Chunnin Exams it's obvious who would've won. Manga has shown so many times that being a Taijutsu master or being more skilled isn't the most important factor when talking about who wins in CQC, especially when the other party has abilities that enhance their Taijutsu ability (Sharingan).

You make it seem like the clash that resulted in the explosion was what made Neji lose that fight. Neji lost because he was deceived by Naruto not because of that clash.

I also don't understand your if Neji had foregone rotation case. That rotation was to counter whatever it was that clashed with Kaiten not Naruto himself. Nothing suggests if it wasn't there Neji won't have reacted to him especially when we saw Neji tracking him before and even engaging in a brief kunai battle iirc.

Also how does 3T enhance taijutsu ability? I thought it only gave them the ability to react faster to stuff?

We also have a scan of Zabuza hitting Kakashi despite having 3T. One could argue its because Kakashi only had one eye but that attack was as linear as it can be i believe. It all comes down to the skills and ability right?

Neji facing Rock Lee doesn't put Neji's strength on par with Rock Lee's. DB and feats already put Sasuke's strength above Neji's anyway. Disabling KN0 with his bare hands is one of them. Assuming that's the point you were trying to make.

That wasn't what i meant. I was only trying to show that Sasuke having more strength doesn't give him the automatic win because Lee has always been stronger than Neji and Neji still always beat him. Also consider ura renge was what was needed to defeat Neji meaning the amped strength of Lee even while in 1st gate wasn't enough to take Neji down.

Are we going by DB stats now?

When you are just attacking, no, but when responding to an enemy attack yes because it betters timing, and not sure how the bold makes sense. Your scans don't support that statement and Neji's style of Taijutsu is still clearly offense and he makes clear offensive moves when he attacks so Sharingan will easily read his movements. Him responding to an enemy attack would mean he's on the defensive side, but it doesn't mean that his actual movements are defensive.

The two scans show Neji inviting his opponents to 'come' attack him first. What happens if Sasuke then comes in and Neji parries? We've seen that his parries still put his opponents in range for a defensive strike. Again i don't recollect 3T being able to read defensive movements and if Sasuke gets parried with his movements used against him, he gets decked.

Lmao how? You haven't provided any kind of feat that'd lead anyone to believe that Neji can't be tagged by Sasuke. This is the same thing I told neosmith when we argued Naruto vs. this same Neji. Scans of Neji embarrassing Hinata in CQC and then stating that SRA Neji is >>> that Neji doesn't hold your claim up on it's own when VoTE Sasuke and CE Hinata are that far apart in terms of literally everything, and you are exaggerating the gap between SRA Neji and CE Final Neji. Difference is noticeable, it's not humongous.

Well we know for a fact that the high speed combo of ura renge was what was needed to defeat CE prelims Neji. Meaning 1st gate Lee who is faster and stronger than unweighted Lee (

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) still wasn't fast enough to tag Neji. Just one hit in gated state should be enough to disorientate someone if it doesn't neg them immediately...but still Lee had to get much more faster before he could get a direct hit on Prelims Neji who is <<< SRA Neji.

You have to give me proof of Sasuke having super fast simultaneous striking speeds.

I can agree here, but it doesn't mean that he'll win as I've explained in my other posts.

Yeah, it doesn't. But i wonder..If Sasuke gets caught in the midst of Neji doing 64 fists (lol) do you think he would be able to evade all? It's a high speed attack and the fact that 3T gives predictive images could be detrimental as there should be multiple Neji images in an instant and the possibility of Sasuke not knowing which of those images is Neji's next move increases right?

Yeah, a palm thrust to the neck, of Hinata. Hinata is physically nowhere near Sasuke's level, but I agree that Sasuke isn't going to just shrug off any attack from Neji, but they aren't doing damage as serious as that to him, especially if he doesn't hit him in the neck like he did Hinata.

Hinata was already bleeding anyway so there's no way to be sure that was from the thrust. But yeah you've agreed he isn't shrugging off his attacks just like that.

 

[Simbv]

So OP is restricing Neji's Jyuken? Well no sh!t Sasuke would win, Neji's taijutsu doesn't rely on pure strength.
Kind of a unfair match. It will still be hard for Sasuke to win though. If Neji could use his jyuken then he would curb stomp Sasuke.

 

[EZQ]

I am of the belief that Sasuke wins. Simply put, you can't even compare the reflexes of these two by this time, where Sasuke was easely reacting to a much stronger version of Naruto that kept up with Neji.

How much Neji improved would not be enough to fill that gap.

 

[Mad Titan Thanos]

Lmao don't bring that wank here. Neji w/ nothing but his own bare hands being portrayed above the guy who demolished KN0 with his bare hands is pure nonsense.

Basically: "I'm gonna ignore the feats because I think Neji should win and the feats don't agree with me".

L-M-A-O. Sorry pal. Not today.

I didnt see Jyuken is restricted. Thats why I made that post since no one can convince me that Neji wont be able to place single Jyuken hit to Sasuke in CQC and make it GG.

With Jyuken restricted Sasuke should win.

 

[KidGamer65]

You make it seem like the clash that resulted in the explosion was what made Neji lose that fight. Neji lost because he was deceived by Naruto not because of that clash.

I also don't understand your if Neji had foregone rotation case. That rotation was to counter whatever it was that clashed with Kaiten not Naruto himself. Nothing suggests if it wasn't there Neji won't have reacted to him especially when we saw Neji tracking him before and even engaging in a brief kunai battle iirc.

Ok, I'll give you this point.

Also how does 3T enhance taijutsu ability? I thought it only gave them the ability to react faster to stuff?

We also have a scan of Zabuza hitting Kakashi despite having 3T. One could argue its because Kakashi only had one eye but that attack was as linear as it can be i believe. It all comes down to the skills and ability right?

The faster you react to enemy attacks, the better you counter, thus the better your Taijutsu is. Zabuza being able to hit Kakashi despite having 3-Tomoe is simply because of the combined skill like you said, and the fact that his physical abilities are simply at a level where Kakashi having Sharingan doesn't make him overwhelmingly superior. Skills aren't even the most important factor tbh, as shown when Naruto and Sasuke fought at VoTE 1 and 2, and when Naruto was taking on Limbo Madara (equal to the original physically) in Taijutsu even though in pure skill Naruto's Taijutsu has never been that great, he just has that speed and power and some training in Frog Fu.

That wasn't what i meant. I was only trying to show that Sasuke having more strength doesn't give him the automatic win because Lee has always been stronger than Neji and Neji still always beat him. Also consider ura renge was what was needed to defeat Neji meaning the amped strength of Lee even while in 1st gate wasn't enough to take Neji down.

Are we going by DB stats now?

We've always been going by DB stats, as long as they are used properly.

The two scans show Neji inviting his opponents to 'come' attack him first. What happens if Sasuke then comes in and Neji parries? We've seen that his parries still put his opponents in range for a defensive strike. Again i don't recollect 3T being able to read defensive movements and if Sasuke gets parried with his movements used against him, he gets decked.

A parry isn't offensive. If Sasuke comes at Neji and Neji parries, and then attacks Sasuke's Sharingan will read that movement. Why do you keep talking about "defensive strikes"? Those aren't a thing. Whether you are on the offensive or the defensive, if you are attacking/countering and dealing damage it's an offensive movement that the Sharingan will pick up.

When Neji told Naruto to come he proceeded to demolish him with attacks, clear cut attacks. Not defensive attacks. Those are movements that can and will be read by the Sharingan.

Well we know for a fact that the high speed combo of ura renge was what was needed to defeat CE prelims Neji. Meaning 1st gate Lee who is faster and stronger than unweighted Lee (

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) still wasn't fast enough to tag Neji. Just one hit in gated state should be enough to disorientate someone if it doesn't neg them immediately...but still Lee had to get much more faster before he could get a direct hit on Prelims Neji who is <<< SRA Neji.

You have to give me proof of Sasuke having super fast simultaneous striking speeds.

Lmao this is where you are misconstruing what was stated. Yes, a high speed combo was Lee's answer to defeating Neji, but where did you come to the conclusion that it's because Lee needed to be that fast to even be able to hit Neji? Manga doesn't imply that and what we've seen of Neji's own performance proves that wrong. Neji himself isn't faster than Gaara's sand, yet Unweighted Lee was outspeeding said Sand, so there's absolutely no way you can claim that you need to be as fast as 5G Lee to tag Neji.

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Gai said that the Extreme Lotus is a high speed taijutsu combo that can't be touched, the bold are the key words. Lee was trying to move so fast that Neji can't touch him, not so that he can touch Neji and that's most likely because of how the Gentle Fist works, even a touch can mean the end of the fight, so if Lee attacks Neji at a speed that Neji can't even hope to touch him at then it's a wrap for him.

That argument doesn't work here because Gentle Fist is restricted. This is pure hand to hand, so Sasuke doesn't need to be fast enough to prevent Neji from touching him as Neji touching him once or twice doesn't mean the end.

Yeah, it doesn't. But i wonder..If Sasuke gets caught in the midst of Neji doing 64 fists (lol) do you think he would be able to evade all? It's a high speed attack and the fact that 3T gives predictive images could be detrimental as there should be multiple Neji images in an instant and the possibility of Sasuke not knowing which of those images is Neji's next move increases right?

If he gets hit by any of them he's not going to evade the subsequent strikes, but evading the first two strikes is child's play considering he can comfortably evade KN0 and KN1 Naruto in close quarters, and I'm definitely not seeing how this last part works. It'll show multiple images, but in the same fashion it showed Naruto's movements step by step, so there's no reason why his own vision would foil him here.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Like I said to FT, KN0 Naruto beat Neji and he didn't absolutely need to have speed on par Gated Lee. He didn't need any sort of high speed combo. At best this statement proves that Sasuke's own speed is something that Neji should be able to easily react to, but that's not something that anyone doubted in the first place.

Neji's a Taijutsu master, but if Neji had foregone Rotation and just attacked Naruto with his fists when they fought during the Chunnin Exams it's obvious who would've won. Manga has shown so many times that being a Taijutsu master or being more skilled isn't the most important factor when talking about who wins in CQC, especially when the other party has abilities that enhance their Taijutsu ability (Sharingan).

Neji facing Rock Lee doesn't put Neji's strength on par with Rock Lee's. DB and feats already put Sasuke's strength above Neji's anyway. Disabling KN0 with his bare hands is one of them. Assuming that's the point you were trying to make.



When you are just attacking, no, but when responding to an enemy attack yes because it betters timing, and not sure how the bold makes sense. Your scans don't support that statement and Neji's style of Taijutsu is still clearly offense and he makes clear offensive moves when he attacks so Sharingan will easily read his movements. Him responding to an enemy attack would mean he's on the defensive side, but it doesn't mean that his actual movements are defensive.



Lmao how? You haven't provided any kind of feat that'd lead anyone to believe that Neji can't be tagged by Sasuke. This is the same thing I told neosmith when we argued Naruto vs. this same Neji. Scans of Neji embarrassing Hinata in CQC and then stating that SRA Neji is >>> that Neji doesn't hold your claim up on it's own when VoTE Sasuke and CE Hinata are that far apart in terms of literally everything, and you are exaggerating the gap between SRA Neji and CE Final Neji. Difference is noticeable, it's not humongous.



I can agree here, but it doesn't mean that he'll win as I've explained in my other posts.



Yeah, a palm thrust to the neck, of Hinata. Hinata is physically nowhere near Sasuke's level, but I agree that Sasuke isn't going to just shrug off any attack from Neji, but they aren't doing damage as serious as that to him, especially if he doesn't hit him in the neck like he did Hinata.



Yeah lol my bad. Definitely a typo.

If he evades in that manner it doesn't become a matter of simply who has the faster striking speed. If Neji lunges at Sasuke and Sasuke dodges like he did to Naruto, then it puts

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, the area he's striking from, pointed away from Sasuke's body while Sasuke himself is still in a perfect position to kick or strike Neji. Only difference from the scan I linked above is that Sasuke might have to do more than just move his body to the side since Neji won't be coming at him with the same kind of power Naruto did.

Or he can block/parry the first two strikes and respond with a strike of his own preventing Neji from continuing the sequence.

And Sasuke has way more going for him than Naruto as he already obliterated a stronger version of that same Naruto in CQC. Saying that Sasuke needs to perform better than 5G Lee w/ Ura Renge doesn't work as an argument because someone who can't perform at Lee's level like that managed to defeat Neji.

Basically Lee's answer to beating Neji was being fast enough to basically blitz him, but that's not the only way to beat Neji. If you are only making the point that based on this statement, Sasuke's speed can be handled by Neji then yeah, I agree, but if you are using this statement to say that Neji beats Sasuke because Sasuke isn't going to outperform 5G Lee then I disagree.

That is sloppy taijutsu by Naruto, no way Neji would strike anything like that. Neji always keeps both his feet leveled on the ground. If Sasuke manages to dodge Neji's initial strikes or blocks/parries and responds with a strike of his own, Neji is still perfectly capable of ducking and weaving while using 64 Palms [

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]. As I previously mentioned, the major problem is Neji doesn't normally rely on strength behind his strikes. However, he did manage to

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, which is a decent feat. Basically, the only thing I think we disagree on is Sasuke completely outclassing Neji in CQC. I believe Neji is more skilled and polished, while Sasuke is the heavy hitter. Neji has to hit Sasuke way more in order to win than Sasuke has to him. So edge definitely goes to Sasuke.

I hate using this argument, but Naruto beating Neji was simply plot. Just like how he beat Kiba by farting in his face. It didn't make sense, and realistically Neji (who was being cocky) should of defeated Naruto. Dude literally dug a tunnel underground with his bare hands, and knocked out Neji with a single punch. But then we see Neji in the SRA fighting Kidomaru with a full blown hole straight through his shoulder. Just trash. Anyways, yeah, I'm saying Neji shouldn't have much trouble dealing with Sasuke's speed given Gai's statement about 5G Lee. That and in combination with superior striking speed makes this a match. Neji just has to do way more work than Sasuke to win.

 

[Haizaki]

Neji wins.

- It was heavily implied that even in the 5th Gate, it took Ura Renge to defeat Neji. Not sure why the 5th Gate itself can't defeat Neji despite such speed, and the fact that Neji himself can at least touch Lee's Taijutsu in the 5G until Ura Renge is pretty much self explanatory. Sasuke doesn't have speed close to that level so he gets reacted to every time and eventually defeated in a hand to hand combat.

- Neji is also capable of tracking Rock Lee in the 5th so Sasuke won't be an issue. Taijutsu wise is suicide for Sasuke when Neji alone had arguably the fastest striking speed in the Manga at that point within their category. The fact that he can defeat Rock Lee until Ura Renge despite both being Taijutsu specialist says a lot regarding his fight against Sasuke here being hand to hand. I struggle to see Sasuke winning despite these restrictions. DB even hands it over to Neji in terms of speed and taijutsu plus the actual manga that strongly hints Neji would win in this art.

 

[Haizaki]

That is sloppy taijutsu by Naruto, no way Neji would strike anything like that. Neji always keeps both his feet leveled on the ground. If Sasuke manages to dodge Neji's initial strikes or blocks/parries and responds with a strike of his own, Neji is still perfectly capable of ducking and weaving while using 64 Palms [

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]. As I previously mentioned, the major problem is Neji doesn't normally rely on strength behind his strikes. However, he did manage to

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, which is a decent feat. Basically, the only thing I think we disagree on is Sasuke completely outclassing Neji in CQC. I believe Neji is more skilled and polished, while Sasuke is the heavy hitter. Neji has to hit Sasuke way more in order to win than Sasuke has to him. So edge definitely goes to Sasuke.

I hate using this argument, but Naruto beating Neji was simply plot. Just like how he beat Kiba by farting in his face. It didn't make sense, and realistically Neji (who was being cocky) should of defeated Naruto. Dude literally dug a tunnel underground with his bare hands, and knocked out Neji with a single punch. But then we see Neji in the SRA fighting Kidomaru with a full blown hole straight through his shoulder. Just trash. Anyways, yeah, I'm saying Neji shouldn't have much trouble dealing with Sasuke's speed given Gai's statement about 5G Lee. That and in combination with superior striking speed makes this a match. Neji just has to do way more work than Sasuke to win.

Yup it was definitely plot considering Neji's behavior at that point which in turn was good for the manga. Not to mention he had his Byakugan(which would have pointed out Naruto to him) deactivated for some unknown reason as the strain was deactivated

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and then he said it here that was careless

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[Unorthodox]

Sasuke wins this nothing short of med-high diff because of Neji's striking speed.

Neji is more skilled and polished, while Sasuke is the heavy hitter.

Neji is not more polished its his fighting style that looks more fancy with his fingers and open palms,

knocked out Neji with a single punch. But then we see Neji in the SRA fighting Kidomaru with a full blown hole straight through his shoulder. Just trash. Anyways, yeah, I'm saying Neji

C'mon now hard to compare those scenes when Neji was fighting to win against Naruto and was fighting for his life against kido. Neji made that clear by saying Kido was the strongest opponent he ever fought despite winning to him and losing to Naruto, Even if we compare his conditions after the fight Neji was walking and talking fine post CE Fight, while he was out for days after the kido fight.

- It was heavily implied that even in the 5th Gate, it took Ura Renge to defeat Neji.

No its was not we've seen neji struggle with much slower speed,

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Naruto at this level was matching him blow for blow with no problem There is no way Neji would even be able to react to 5th gated lee. Nothing was implied it would take all that for lee to beat Neji that was just his trump card Rock lee would have had smoked him.

Not sure why the 5th Gate itself can't defeat Neji despite such speed, and the fact that Neji himself can at least touch Lee's Taijutsu in the 5G until Ura Renge is pretty much self explanatory. Sasuke doesn't have speed close to that level so he gets reacted to every time and eventually defeated in a hand to hand combat.

Neji does not have feats to prove he can react to that speed and power either so your point holds no merit. Sasuke does have feats suggest he can least react, Naruto kn0 at vote 1 pummeled a Sasuke who was superior to his CE2 self who was described as a mirror of rock lee albeit he had Sharingan so making him superior, 3 tomoe Sasuke easily reacted to 1 tails Naruto speed with no problem,

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That's a better reaction feat then anything part 1 Neji has done, Sasuke also states he has no problem anticipating his movements and speed but the chakra hands are his problem.

Neji is also capable of tracking Rock Lee in the 5th so Sasuke won't be an issue.

How who has neji tracked that suggest he can even bat an eye before Lee gets in his personal space? Tracking Sasuke was never the problem landing at hit on him was and it's not happening.

Taijutsu wise is suicide for Sasuke when Neji alone had arguably the fastest striking speed in the Manga at that point within their category.

Once Again reacting to 1 tailed Naruto is a far better reaction feat than Neji has done, Also kimmimaro had some great striking speed yet could not land a touch on drunk lee. Only thing Neji has that could trouble Sasuke is his trigrams Sasuke jumps out before their complete wasting Neji's Chakra.

The fact that he can defeat Rock Lee until Ura Renge despite both being Taijutsu specialist says a lot regarding his fight against Sasuke here being hand to hand.

Based off absolutely nothing especially when feats painfully disagrees, Sasuke would manhandle lee without the gates so that is not much to be impressed about. Because with out jyuken neji CQC is pretty much harmless.

I struggle to see Sasuke winning despite these restrictions. DB even hands it over to Neji in terms of speed and taijutsu plus the actual manga that strongly hints Neji would win in this art.

DB is crap i never gave it any ounce of credibility. The manga only hinted that when Sasuke was a weakling at CE1 it was hinted That Sasuke was the strongest at CE2, And Sasuke progressed much more after that than Neji.

 

[SasukeSixPack]

Neji wins.

- It was heavily implied that even in the 5th Gate, it took Ura Renge to defeat Neji. Not sure why the 5th Gate itself can't defeat Neji despite such speed, and the fact that Neji himself can at least touch Lee's Taijutsu in the 5G until Ura Renge is pretty much self explanatory. Sasuke doesn't have speed close to that level so he gets reacted to every time and eventually defeated in a hand to hand combat.

- Neji is also capable of tracking Rock Lee in the 5th so Sasuke won't be an issue. Taijutsu wise is suicide for Sasuke when Neji alone had arguably the fastest striking speed in the Manga at that point within their category. The fact that he can defeat Rock Lee until Ura Renge despite both being Taijutsu specialist says a lot regarding his fight against Sasuke here being hand to hand. I struggle to see Sasuke winning despite these restrictions. DB even hands it over to Neji in terms of speed and taijutsu plus the actual manga that strongly hints Neji would win in this art.

Sasuke reacted to and even bested a a KN0 naruto faster and stronger than the one Neji faced

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Meaning that Neji loses this matchup whether he is a taijutsu specialist or not. Sasuke increasing his speed and striking power greater than what Naruto did against neji is a fact. How can you say that Neji will have no difficulty tracking Sasuke just because he Saw Lee's 5G speed when a much slower Naruto pushed him to his limits. Even if we arguably say that the KN0 Naruto who fought Neji''s speed is on 5G lee bar the lotus, Sasuke speed is still greater than Naruto's at that point but obviously slower that the lotus but is definitely enough to beat Neji in this match

 

[KidGamer65]

That is sloppy taijutsu by Naruto, no way Neji would strike anything like that. Neji always keeps both his feet leveled on the ground. If Sasuke manages to dodge Neji's initial strikes or blocks/parries and responds with a strike of his own, Neji is still perfectly capable of ducking and weaving while using 64 Palms [

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]. As I previously mentioned, the major problem is Neji doesn't normally rely on strength behind his strikes. However, he did manage to

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, which is a decent feat. Basically, the only thing I think we disagree on is Sasuke completely outclassing Neji in CQC. I believe Neji is more skilled and polished, while Sasuke is the heavy hitter. Neji has to hit Sasuke way more in order to win than Sasuke has to him. So edge definitely goes to Sasuke.

I hate using this argument, but Naruto beating Neji was simply plot. Just like how he beat Kiba by farting in his face. It didn't make sense, and realistically Neji (who was being cocky) should of defeated Naruto. Dude literally dug a tunnel underground with his bare hands, and knocked out Neji with a single punch. But then we see Neji in the SRA fighting Kidomaru with a full blown hole straight through his shoulder. Just trash. Anyways, yeah, I'm saying Neji shouldn't have much trouble dealing with Sasuke's speed given Gai's statement about 5G Lee. That and in combination with superior striking speed makes this a match. Neji just has to do way more work than Sasuke to win.

Yeah the Neji ish was fishy now that you guys point it out lmao. Except for everything leading up to his loss.

That's precisely why I said that Sasuke will need to put more power into his dodge, because Neji doesn't put that kind of power into his dodge while Naruto who's Taijutsu skill isn't anything special does, but the important part is the speed of Naruto's charge, and Naruto in any form above base is easily faster than what Neji can do here. Sasuke w/ 3 tomoe already has the speed to completely avoid people far above Nejis paygrade in speed. After that he counters him. Not sure how dodging Kidomarus spiders lets him weave Sasukes counter attacks. Neji may be a specialist but Naruto is easily as fast or faster than him (easily faster tbh) and he was getting slapped around when Sasuke went on the offensive.

And you guys really really need to stop with this Ura Renge point. That statement proves that Neji cant be blitzed by Sasuke and that Neji can TOUCH Lee at speeds below that. All Neji needs to win normally is a touch under normal circumstances. Thats not the case here. A touch doesn't win or turn the tide of this fight as he doesn't have gentle fist so you can't say that because he can touch Lee at 5G speeds, he'd defeat Sasuke in close combat. 5G Lee would hand Neji his ass on a platter in raw hand to hand if Neji didnt have gentle fist regardless of Ura Renge and i hope no one will argue otherwise. Being able to deal with Sasuke's speed isn't what gives him this fight as being able to react says nothing of whether or not he can actually win, and being inferior in everything else except striking speed doesn't help either.

 

[neosmith500]

I like this post because you reminded how badass Zabuza was at that moment.

Yep , it shows that being proficient in Taijutsu can play a role in dealing with the sharingan and SRA Neji has a 4.5 similar to zabuza among other top tier martial artists in the manga , Sasuke's offense gets outperformed by Neji in straight up hand to hand if he tries to strike first and if Neji wasn't restricted from using his Jyuken taijutsu then he could dominate Sasuke since simply touching him a few times or even once is enough to turn the tide of the battle into a landslide.

-Neji's fighting style is all about waiting until the enemy tries to strike him , he showed a strictly counter-based fighting style and always chooses to respond rather than initiate even in his fight against Kidomaru this was exactly the case. Neji's fighting style works in perfect tandem with his Jyuken as he simply needs to swiftly touch tenketsu near the area where he defended himself from a physical attack and it doesn't leave him open for the enemy to exploit his own offense as would be the case against the Sharingan so his basic fighting style already works to help against 3T.

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I dont see how Sasuke is dealing with Neji's fighting style in CQC when Neji can react to his attempted strikes and block his tenketsu with every successful parry. He can follow up with quick jabs while in tight quarters which are Attacks that Sasuke even with 3T wont be able to casually avoid since they are literally composed of quick touches done after a defensive movement followed up with quick jabs which Sasuke would need to put extra effort into dodging since Neji can launch multiple swift jabs at him while in tight quarters and still remain composed in his stance.

Sasuke is surely going to be the first one attacking and throwing punches which Neji will be able to parry , but its useless with Neji not being able to capitalize with jyuken since he'd simply touch Sasuke's tenketsu after each successful parry then take quick jabs at Sasuke's chest area , but with all that restricted then considering the big boost in physical stats and durability Sasuke gained after bein involved in his CM2 awakening ritual , Neji's basic hits without the application of the very function of his Taijutsu form and movement wont do much to a Sasuke who was taking multiple hits from KN0 and KN1 Naruto while still coming back for more when Neji lacks the ability to bypass this durability , making his Taijutsu as a whole completely useless while Sasuke has no such drawbacks to his own Taijutsu all at , so yea not seeing how Neji can actually win under these conditions.

Yup it was definitely plot considering Neji's behavior at that point which in turn was good for the manga. Not to mention he had his Byakugan(which would have pointed out Naruto to him) deactivated for some unknown reason as the strain was deactivated

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and then he said it here that was careless

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Then u consider that Naruto already feinted him using clones before which should've made Neji more cautious , not to mention Naruto had to literally bet on Neji walking over to that exact spot above him without Byakugan activated for him to spring out.

 

[KidGamer65]

DB even hands it over to Neji in terms of speed and taijutsu plus the actual manga that strongly hints Neji would win in this art.

Lmao how are you going to use the databook to say that Neji wins because he has a higher speed and taijutsu stat (which ignores Sharingan completely as DB doesn't take Ninjutsu/Dojutsu and transformations into account) and then turn around and say Neji can defeat 5G Lee in hand to hand based on an out of context statement despite Base Lee having an equal Taijutsu and Speed Stat to Neji, only for 5G to push the speed and strength stats way way up?

I hope you can see the clear gap in logic I'm seeing here.

 

[Haizaki]

Lmao how are you going to use the databook to say that Neji wins because he has a higher speed and taijutsu stat (which ignores Sharingan completely as DB doesn't take Ninjutsu/Dojutsu and transformations into account) and then turn around and say Neji can defeat 5G Lee in hand to hand based on an out of context statement despite Base Lee having an equal Taijutsu and Speed Stat to Neji, only for 5G to push the speed and strength stats way way up?

I hope you can see the clear gap in logic I'm seeing here.

No not suggesting Neji wins in it based on the DB. Just trying to use it to support my point as Kishi's indication to his superiority in the art. The DB also doesn't take into account the Byakugan which makes Gentle fist effective. Read the bottom left of this scan

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and then the whole of this

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. Hence Neji's Taijutsu score won't be fully seen and would be equal with Lee's based on it. SRA Neji is the second DB and is superior to Lee in terms of Taijutsu with his Byakugan not being factored in.

Without the use of the Byakugan, you can't really use Gentle fist so Neji's stats there are his hand to hand plainly. The Byakugan further enhances his ability to track one as shown here when he activated it once Lee started moving

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compared to here when he didn't despite Lee being in the gates

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. The Byakugan grants him 360 degrees and 50M vision which enables him react faster as implied by Kidomaru.

 

[neosmith500]

No its was not we've seen neji struggle with much slower speed,

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.

What is that even based on where do u see Neji struggling???

All we saw was him getting introduced to Naruto's new speed and no where did Neji say "Fast!" or "too fast!!" so im not sure where ur getting the word struggle from , Not to mention CE Neji did better than CE Base Sasuke would have against that very same KN0 since he would've gotten blitzed for days with his 2T active.