SRA Neji vs. VoTE (3-Tomoe) Sasuke

[Darth AniCetuS]

Neji easily takes this unless Sasuke has the ability to open gates.

 

[KidGamer65]

No not suggesting Neji wins in it based on the DB. Just trying to use it to support my point as Kishi's indication to his superiority in the art. The DB also doesn't take into account the Byakugan which makes Gentle fist effective. Read the bottom left of this scan

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and then the whole of this

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. Hence Neji's Taijutsu score won't be fully seen and would be equal with Lee's based on it. SRA Neji is the second DB and is superior to Lee in terms of Taijutsu with his Byakugan not being factored in.

Without the use of the Byakugan, you can't really use Gentle fist so Neji's stats there are his hand to hand plainly. The Byakugan further enhances his ability to track one as shown here when he activated it once Lee started moving

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compared to here when he didn't despite Lee being in the gates

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. The Byakugan grants him 360 degrees and 50M vision which enables him react faster as implied by Kidomaru.

That's all irrelevant in this match up. He doesn't need to be able to see the inner workings of the chakra system because he doesn't have Gentle Fist here. All chakra manipulation is restricted. Only thing he can do is fight like he normally does, but without the ability to inject chakra. The only thing you have going for you here is that Byakugan lets Neji react faster but that bonus he gets is literally nowhere near what the Sharingan does for Sasuke.

SRA Neji has a 4.5 while Lee has a 4, ok, factor in Byakugan and factor in Gates and it's obvious who's stat would be superior if they were ranked as the 5th Gate>>>Byakugan when it comes to which provides the better boost while the only difference between them was half a point originally. Byakugan lets him see all around him and lets him react faster, but not on the level of someone who actually has precognition (3-Tomoe) while the 5th Gate dramatically increases Lee's speed and power. Using databook scores as support here doesn't help you when I can use them as support for why 5G Lee would smoke Neji in hand to hand, which is a counter to the claim that CE Neji>5G Lee in hand to hand, which I've seen like 3-4 people in here total make based on a scan taken out of context.

What's worse is that it's just the Taijutsu stat as I've said above. Doesn't take speed and strength into account, just Taijutsu skill. Both of which Sasuke easily surpasses Neji in. (reaction speed and strength)

 

[SSStylish]

Naruto beat Neji with just some chakra of Kurama. 3 Tomoe Sasuke beat a stronger version of this Naruto zero diff. He would shit on Neji because of his superior strength and speed.

 

[Unorthodox]

What is that even based on where do u see Neji struggling???

All we saw was him getting introduced to Naruto's new speed and no where did Neji say "Fast!" or "too fast!!" so im not sure where ur getting the word struggle from , Not to mention CE Neji did better than CE Base Sasuke would have against that very same KN0 since he would've gotten blitzed for days with his 2T active.

Neji clearly has the face of struggle in the scan i posted and even further on in the chapter Naruto speed rivaled Neji's so your point because useless. I See how you took the most irrelevant part of my post to counter lol Sasuke reacting and dodging to 1 tailed Naruto means Neji does not land a hit and if so he would barely do any damage.

Stop VOTE Naruto is well above his CE counterpart and every stat line meaning by default he'd be much faster and the KN0 he used against neji was the weakest usage in the entire series his eyes we're not even red so CE Sasuke would have murdered that Naruto.

@EVANI i see you ducking

 

[DrProof]

Neji clearly has the face of struggle in the scan i posted and even further on in the chapter Naruto speed rivaled Neji's so your point because useless. I See how you took the most irrelevant part of my post to counter lol Sasuke reacting and dodging to 1 tailed Naruto means Neji does not land a hit and if so he would barely do any damage.

Stop VOTE Naruto is well above his CE counterpart and every stat line meaning by default he'd be much faster and the KN0 he used against neji was the weakest usage in the entire series his eyes we're not even red so CE Sasuke would have murdered that Naruto.

@EVANI i see you ducking

Why you always thinking somebody ducking in a debate against you silly ass nigguh. Evani is actually nasty af when it comes to debating with the right characters.

 

[Unorthodox]

Why you always thinking somebody ducking in a debate against you silly ass nigguh. Evani is actually nasty af when it comes to debating with the right characters.

Lol ok.

 

[ToshiZO]

I think this is situation where we need to ignore actual feats because feats are mostly dictated by plot.We need to go by manga portrayal about Neji and common sense.

I think he wins.

Lmaooo says the guy who will throw out all portrayal when it comes to Gai and Kakashi.

 

[neosmith500]

Neji clearly has the face of struggle in the scan i posted and even further on in the chapter Naruto speed rivaled Neji's so your point because useless. I See how you took the most irrelevant part of my post to counter lol Sasuke reacting and dodging to 1 tailed Naruto means Neji does not land a hit and if so he would barely do any damage.

Thats clearly a mix of confusion and surprise due to obvious reasons , then u go to say KN0 Naruto's speed rivaled CE Neji's which contradicts wat ur trying to say. Idk where are ur getting this notion of struggle from when they didn't even confront each other in taijutsu among other things. Unless u expected Neji to be chilled and composed as if he understands the situation fully , then u have no point here since ntn implied that Neji was actually struggling.

-I already said Sasuke would be victor here due to Neji being restricted to use heavy attacks and directly go on the offense which isn't how he fights and works this works well in Sasuke's favor who has no drawbacks here in terms of his hand to hand combat ability or style along with the advantage of his eyes being able to predict physical attacks , so Neji cant use the subtle movements of his style to simultaneously parry while he blocks tenketsu and when he attacks with straight forward attacks Sasuke will dodge it or tank it easily. Jyuken and Neji's canon fighting style would normally hard counter this but without it Sasuke beats him in the long run with it being high diff.


-Also that was the only part i countered from ur post since ur entire post wasn't meant for me among the other fact that i agreed to Sasuke winning from the start so why would i argue against it.

Stop VOTE Naruto is well above his CE counterpart and every stat line meaning by default he'd be much faster and the KN0 he used against neji was the weakest usage in the entire series his eyes we're not even red so CE Sasuke would have murdered that Naruto.

Never said anything about VOTE Naruto not being above CE :hmm: , show me where Base VOTE Sasuke is implied as being faster than CE CM1 Sasuke , because he'd have to be way faster than that to be faster than CE KN0 Naruto in raw speed who is faster than CE CM1 Sasuke due to Kurama. VOTE Sasuke's Durability and Base stats took a jump beyond his Base state before leaving the leaf , but ntn suggest his speed increased to the point he could blitz where he's faster than CM1 Sasuke before leaving the leaf only in base and the difference isn't anything much when considering CM1 Allowed Forest of death Sasuke to surpass Weighted Lee speed with leaps and bounds.

 

[Jinrou]

The faster you react to enemy attacks, the better you counter, thus the better your Taijutsu is. Zabuza being able to hit Kakashi despite having 3-Tomoe is simply because of the combined skill like you said, and the fact that his physical abilities are simply at a level where Kakashi having Sharingan doesn't make him overwhelmingly superior. Skills aren't even the most important factor tbh, as shown when Naruto and Sasuke fought at VoTE 1 and 2, and when Naruto was taking on Limbo Madara (equal to the original physically) in Taijutsu even though in pure skill Naruto's Taijutsu has never been that great, he just has that speed and power and some training in Frog Fu.

@bold yet you are of the opinion that Sasuke having Sharingan makes him overwhelmingly superior to Neji who was portrayed as a master of taijutsu? Granted Zabuza was stronger than Kakashi in DB but i'm of the opinion the reason he was able to get a clean hit on 3T Kakashi in the first place is the fact that he had good speed (same as Kakashi's) and his taijutsu was superior. Saying skills isn't important seems flawed to me.

Also i really don't fancy using base Naruto as a case study for feats because Naruto as the MC was involved in numerous plot shields and what not.

Kakashi who is superior in speed, taijutsu (by feats and DB) and reactions (by feats) was tagged by a Deva who only seconds ago had no chakra receiver out (

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) That shows striking speed on a level faster than Kakashi's reactions but yet that same Deva was held at bay in cqc by base Naruto and it's implied Deva wasn't fast enough to strike him with a chakra receiver before he entered sage mode in the entirety of that cqc (

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You can also question how Naruto who wasn't a doton user, wasn't a sensor and had no dojutsu was able to come out of the ground directly under Neji's chin. If he had come out from the crater Neji made it would have been less bizarre tbh.

We've always been going by DB stats, as long as they are used properly

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Everyone seems to think Neji's taijutsu stats are based on his ability to input chakra into the body of his opponent. But if that was the case, Hinata should have had higher taijutsu stats too as she can do the same. His taijutsu stats is based on his martial arts technique alone imo. Strength is the only stat where Sasuke betters Neji and with feats, i believe i'm using the DB stats properly to conclude Neji defeats Sasuke even with the restrictions you've set.

A parry isn't offensive. If Sasuke comes at Neji and Neji parries, and then attacks Sasuke's Sharingan will read that movement. Why do you keep talking about "defensive strikes"? Those aren't a thing. Whether you are on the offensive or the defensive, if you are attacking/countering and dealing damage it's an offensive movement that the Sharingan will pick up.

When Neji told Naruto to come he proceeded to demolish him with attacks, clear cut attacks. Not defensive attacks. Those are movements that can and will be read by the Sharingan.

When one parries, the opponents movements are used against themselves. Neji won't be the aggressor in this fight. And for Sasuke to put down Neji with his strength, he'll need to put enough force in his punch and increasing that force should logically require momentum. He'll need to swing his arm way behind him to give the necessary acceleration to said arm to increase the force of the punch and that will definitely move his body along with him (

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Some scans of what Neji does with momentum attacks

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We clearly see these poor souls Neji negged in cqc all had momentum attacks dodged or parried and put in range for a counter defensive strike (it's a thing in martial arts..i've attended some trainings lol). 3T doesn't read defensive movements.

And yes Sasuke is > both of them but unfortunately, the laws of momentum applies to everyone. If Sasuke's punches gets dodged (and Neji dodges them neg diff.. i'll get to that soon) his momentum betrays him and he gets decked.

Lmao this is where you are misconstruing what was stated. Yes, a high speed combo was Lee's answer to defeating Neji, but where did you come to the conclusion that it's because Lee needed to be that fast to even be able to hit Neji? Manga doesn't imply that and what we've seen of Neji's own performance proves that wrong. Neji himself isn't faster than Gaara's sand, yet Unweighted Lee was outspeeding said Sand, so there's absolutely no way you can claim that you need to be as fast as 5G Lee to tag Neji.

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Gai said that the Extreme Lotus is a high speed taijutsu combo that can't be touched, the bold are the key words. Lee was trying to move so fast that Neji can't touch him, not so that he can touch Neji and that's most likely because of how the Gentle Fist works, even a touch can mean the end of the fight, so if Lee attacks Neji at a speed that Neji can't even hope to touch him at then it's a wrap for him.

That argument doesn't work here because Gentle Fist is restricted. This is pure hand to hand, so Sasuke doesn't need to be fast enough to prevent Neji from touching him as Neji touching him once or twice doesn't mean the end.

All this would imply Neji needed to touch Lee once for him to have won their bouts? I very much doubt that would be the case though as a one hit paralyzing move would definitely send Lee to a hospital multiple times..We saw how Neji nerfed himself with Hinata as he was sparring normally with her and was going to end her with his last strike...so i'm not sure Neji would have resorted to such extreme measures (one hit KO) every time Lee challenged him to a fight.

Then again we have Lee needing the destructive ura renge that would possibly kill Neji to defeat him so idk tbh.

Anyways by portrayal, Neji has fought against 1st gate Lee who is faster and much more stronger than the already strong unweighted Lee. That Lee would need just the one punch to tag Neji leaving him disoriented and open for a quick successive strike or strikes to neg him while he's disoriented..and as far as we know, all these never happened. Meaning by portrayal, the faster and stronger gated Lee never got a clean hit on Neji once.

If he gets hit by any of them he's not going to evade the subsequent strikes, but evading the first two strikes is child's play considering he can comfortably evade KN0 and KN1 Naruto in close quarters, and I'm definitely not seeing how this last part works. It'll show multiple images, but in the same fashion it showed Naruto's movements step by step, so there's no reason why his own vision would foil him here.

Well since he isn't targetting tenketsu, the 64 fists would be instant just like it was

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Evading KN0 and KN1 Naruto is an impressive feat. But both those versions of Naruto don't have Neji's striking speed.

@bold is incorrect. Naruto was coming at him in a linear step by step format. The instant 64 fists he'll use here would create images behind, in front and both sides of where the real Neji would be. Sasuke would see 64 images in an instant...how would he be able to tell which precedes which in this scenario?

You've also not given me proof of Sasuke's exceptional striking speeds because i still stand by the fact that Sasuke won't tag Neji at all.

We see Kido releasing traps he set outside of Neji's 50m range and they appear close to him almost instantly (

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). logically isn't that giving the daggers a speed feat of a value not too far behind Neji's speed blitz at the end of the fight? Neji dodges them neg diff

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And to further increase the mother of all evasion feats, Neji doesn't see a similar wave of daggers until they were a few feet around him but he still proceeds to dodge all (apart from the ones that enter his blindspot) neg diff.

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Now if we look at that final wave of daggers, we see it seems there are 3 waves/layers of daggers all close to each other moving at the same speed. How Neji even evaded all those neg diff despite being surprised by them is simply astonishing. It gets even more astonishing if you picture the dagger as fists and the 2nd and 3rd waves/layers as successive fist strikes following the initial one.

I'm now even more convinced Sasuke isn't tagging Neji... and when you consider that since he isn't going to be using tenketsu strikes, he'll shift to another form of x-ray with his byakugan and clearly see nerves that can be hit to cause excruciating pain that requires a normal amount of force to be triggered. (Such as those in the neck or the diaphragm below the ribs...martial arts training lol) Neji clearly has a high chance of winning here.

Sasuke the aggressor charges into Neji. Neji uses his own momentum against him and then it becomes a case of if Neji can strike fast enough before Sasuke recovers his footing which i believe he can do.

 

[Unorthodox]

Thats clearly a mix of confusion and surprise due to obvious reasons , then u go to say KN0 Naruto's speed rivaled CE Neji's which contradicts wat ur trying to say. Idk where are ur getting this notion of struggle from when they didn't even confront each other in taijutsu among other things. Unless u expected Neji to be chilled and composed as if he understands the situation fully , then u have no point here since ntn implied that Neji was actually struggling.

-I already agreed to Sasuke being the victor here due to Neji being forced to use heavy attacks and going on the offence which isn't how he fights and works well in Sasuke's favor who has no drawbacks here along with the advantage of his eyes being able to predict physical attacks , so when Neji attacks he dodges. Jyuken and Neji's fighting style would normally hard counter this but without it Sasuke beats him in the long run.


-Also that was the only part i countered from ur post since ur entire post wasn't meant for me among the other fact that i agreed to Sasuke winning from the start so why would i argue against it.

It was obvious Naruto speed was a problem for him as Neji opted to used rotation and instead of fighting him head up like he was doing the whole fight so ill leave that at that. i agree with the rest since you said Sasuke wins.

Never said anything about VOTE Naruto not being above CE :hmm: , show me where Base VOTE Sasuke is implied as being faster than CE CM1 Sasuke , because he'd have to be way faster than that to be faster than CE KN0 Naruto in raw speed who is faster than CE CM1 Sasuke due to Kurama. VOTE Sasuke's Durability and Base stats took a jump beyond his Base state before leaving the leaf , but ntn suggest his speed increased to the point he could blitz where he's faster than CM1 Sasuke before leaving the leaf only in base and the difference isn't anything much when considering CM1 Allowed Forest of death Sasuke to surpass Weighted Lee speed with leaps and bounds.

No one said anything about Base Vote Sasuke's speed was faster than his previous CM 1 + 2 tomoe. Bad logic KN0 naruto against neji is not faster than CE CM1 Sasuke before kurama and CM Sasuke speed is way to much for Naruto add his sharingan, Curse mark 1 = KN0 atleast with the red eyes while he lacked that against Neji, Sasuke CE CM1 is faster than KN0 Naruto at the time and especially faster than the form he used against Neji which lacked red eyes.

 

[neosmith500]

It was obvious Naruto speed was a problem for him as Neji opted to used rotation and instead of fighting him head up like he was doing the whole fight so ill leave that at that. i agree with the rest since you said Sasuke wins.
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His speed itself wasn't even a big factor at all especially compared to 2T Sasuke , also i could use the fact that KN0 Naruto opted to Shunshin all the way to the side followed by using shuriken rather than directly going for a blitz head on via shunshin as he did to Sasuke so say that kishi was obviously showing us that KN0 Naruto was wary of directly confronting him in Taijutsu without a plan even with his new raw speed since unlike against 2T Sasuke it wasn't the main factor at all. CE KN0 Naruto decided to expand his chakra cloak catching Neji off-guard to which he then decided to use Kaiten at that moment and not before , so u literally have no point or proof here in regards to proving that CE KN0>CE Neji in straight up taijutsu.


Base CE Sasuke barely keeping up with Transformed Gaara in the forest and needing shringan to survive is what u truly call having problems with someones speed.

No one said anything about Base Vote Sasuke's speed was faster than his previous CM 1 + 2 tomoe. Bad logic KN0 naruto against neji is not faster than CE CM1 Sasuke before kurama and CM Sasuke speed is way to much for Naruto add his sharingan, Curse mark 1 = KN0 atleast with the red eyes while he lacked that against Neji, Sasuke CE CM1 is faster than KN0 Naruto at the time and especially faster than the form he used against Neji which lacked red eyes.

The bold is based on literally ntn here so try again , CE KN0 Naruto Vs CE Base 2T Sasuke in CQC would be equal to Sasuke getting the same treatment he got from VOTE KN0 Naruto only worse since VOTE Base 2T Sasuke>>CE Sasuke in stats and in terms of durability vastly superior lol , CM1 CE Sasuke being faster than CE KN0 Naruto doesn't make any sense given manga portrayal of Kurama's chakra boost , his CE CM1 would at best be in the same tier as CE KN0 in raw speed but no way can u sit here and tell he's faster based on ntn or even on par.

The red eyes and claws are irrelevant here unless ur gonna argue that red eyes Naruto from the forest of death >>> CE KN0 Naruto simply because of that weak logic which doesn't make sense given manga portrayal of both transformations. Take note that im not saying CE KN0 >>> VOTE im only showing u that red eyes are irrelevant here especially in regards to proving that CE CM1 Sasuke >= CE KN0 Naruto in speed when u cant even begin to prove that VOTE CM1 2T Sasuke would be close to or on par with VOTE KN0 in raw movement speed.

 

[Kakashistomps]

Did i get it wrong or did u conplatly restrict Neji? Only byakugan? If he can't insert his chakra into enemy body that means he can't use Gentle fist? Like really?another stupid thread, This isnt fair fight! So Neji has to use fist for the first time in order to fight(bc if he uses palms it will have zero effect) :d would funny to see tho...

If i get it wrongly and if Neji can use Gentle fist, sorry but sasuke stands no chance against Neji in Taijutsu.

 

[KidGamer65]

@bold yet you are of the opinion that Sasuke having Sharingan makes him overwhelmingly superior to Neji who was portrayed as a master of taijutsu? Granted Zabuza was stronger than Kakashi in DB but i'm of the opinion the reason he was able to get a clean hit on 3T Kakashi in the first place is the fact that he had good speed (same as Kakashi's) and his taijutsu was superior. Saying skills isn't important seems flawed to me.

Zabuza and Kakashi's physical abilities are close enough to simply look at the Taijutsu score and tell who would win. Sasuke and Neji's physical abilities are not as close together as Kakashi and Zabuza's so this point doesn't work.

Sasuke w/ Sharingan dominates Neji in any kind of speed that isn't movement speed while the only thing Neji has is more skill, which obviously isn't as important as the actual physical ability. That's why Naruto can fight someone skilled in Taijutsu but not get demolished because of his superior physical abilities. And lmao don't twist my words. I said it's not the MOST important factor, skills are obviously important in a Taijutsu match.

And who said "overwhelmingly" superior? He's just superior enough overall to beat Neji comfortably.

Also i really don't fancy using base Naruto as a case study for feats because Naruto as the MC was involved in numerous plot shields and what not.

Plot isn't an excuse for Naruto's performance, ever. Only certain circumstances that lead to his victories, such as Neji.

Kakashi who is superior in speed, taijutsu (by feats and DB) and reactions (by feats) was tagged by a Deva who only seconds ago had no chakra receiver out (

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) That shows striking speed on a level faster than Kakashi's reactions but yet that same Deva was held at bay in cqc by base Naruto and it's implied Deva wasn't fast enough to strike him with a chakra receiver before he entered sage mode in the entirety of that cqc (

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)

Superior to who? Deva? Cause Taijutsu is a maybe but speed is based on nothing. To Naruto? Yeah, I agree, but this comparison doesn't make sense because Deva didn't take any weapon out on Naruto for you to make this comparison nor did he leave himself wide open like Kakashi did when he used Doton Doryuheki.

You can also question how Naruto who wasn't a doton user, wasn't a sensor and had no dojutsu was able to come out of the ground directly under Neji's chin. If he had come out from the crater Neji made it would have been less bizarre tbh.

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Yeah, I agreed that how Neji fell was a result of PIS/CIS, but that's unrelated to Naruto's actual ability. One instance isn't going to invalidate the rest of Naruto's feats. Not how it works.

Everyone seems to think Neji's taijutsu stats are based on his ability to input chakra into the body of his opponent. But if that was the case, Hinata should have had higher taijutsu stats too as she can do the same. His taijutsu stats is based on his martial arts technique alone imo. Strength is the only stat where Sasuke betters Neji and with feats, i believe i'm using the DB stats properly to conclude Neji defeats Sasuke even with the restrictions you've set.

I already know that his Taijutsu stats are because of his hand to hand skills, but saying "Neji has a higher stat so he wins" doesn't work when a close quarters battle doesn't just take the taijutsu skill into account, it takes actual physical ability into account as well.

When one parries, the opponents movements are used against themselves. Neji won't be the aggressor in this fight. And for Sasuke to put down Neji with his strength, he'll need to put enough force in his punch and increasing that force should logically require momentum. He'll need to swing his arm way behind him to give the necessary acceleration to said arm to increase the force of the punch and that will definitely move his body along with him (

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)

Some scans of what Neji does with momentum attacks

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[

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We clearly see these poor souls Neji negged in cqc all had momentum attacks dodged or parried and put in range for a counter defensive strike (it's a thing in martial arts..i've attended some trainings lol). 3T doesn't read defensive movements.

And yes Sasuke is > both of them but unfortunately, the laws of momentum applies to everyone. If Sasuke's punches gets dodged (and Neji dodges them neg diff.. i'll get to that soon) his momentum betrays him and he gets decked.

No, a parry is just a block made with an offensive strike. If I charge at you and you swing your sword at my incoming sword and slap it away, that's a parry. Did you still make an offensive move? Yes. That's a move Sharingan will read.

I'm not sure what point you think you have with these scans, but if Neji is actually dealing damage he's obviously not making defensive movements. Defensive movements don't produce the same results as offensive movements. Makes literally no sense. Neji parrying/blocking/countering them doesn't change the fact that he is attacking to do it. The only difference between his movements when he attacks and his movements when he counters is that he's the aggressor in one and the person being attacked in the other, and that's not even a real difference in his movements.

-All the scans showing Naruto, he blocked Naruto's attacks AND THEN struck him.
-In the first scan he clearly hit Hinata. That's offense.
-In the rest he's fending off her attacks, but he's not attacking. If he were to attack after fending off her strikes that'd be an offensive movement.

And sure, if Neji can dodge all of Sasuke's attacks then that'll happen, but he can't so there's nothing to worry about here.

All this would imply Neji needed to touch Lee once for him to have won their bouts? I very much doubt that would be the case though as a one hit paralyzing move would definitely send Lee to a hospital multiple times..We saw how Neji nerfed himself with Hinata as he was sparring normally with her and was going to end her with his last strike...so i'm not sure Neji would have resorted to such extreme measures (one hit KO) every time Lee challenged him to a fight.

Then again we have Lee needing the destructive ura renge that would possibly kill Neji to defeat him so idk tbh.

Anyways by portrayal, Neji has fought against 1st gate Lee who is faster and much more stronger than the already strong unweighted Lee. That Lee would need just the one punch to tag Neji leaving him disoriented and open for a quick successive strike or strikes to neg him while he's disoriented..and as far as we know, all these never happened. Meaning by portrayal, the faster and stronger gated Lee never got a clean hit on Neji once.

Why does Neji's Gentle Fist strikes have to send Lee to the hospital? :lol Maybe if he strikes a vital of his he'll get sent to the hospital, but other than that there's no reason why what you are saying here would be valid. Gentle Fist deals damage internally, he doesn't need to hit a vital to disable Lee. Why are you even talking about Lee vs. Neji in terms of sparring? Doesn't have anything to do with the argument here as no one is claiming that how Neji beats Lee all the time in their matches.

The argument here is that 5G makes Lee so fast that Neji can't touch him, and Neji would only need a touch to win if they ever fought all out like that, which is exactly why Gai said that the key to defeating Neji is basically to rush him and pummel him at speeds that Neji would be unable to strike Neji at.

Portrayal is irrelevant. Not sure why you keep trying to use a Neji w/ Gentle Fist's standing in the Manga as evidence that he beats Sasuke in a hand to hand without Gentle Fist. Neji can gain the advantage with a single touch due to Gentle Fist nor does it have to be lethal or critical strike, that gives him a massive advantage in any hand to hand fight against Lee he may have had in the Manga.

Things like the danger of the jutsu go out the window the moment Gai starts talking about using Ura Renge to defeat Neji in a battle when that would seriously injure Neji.

So you guys should stop using this scan now, has little bearing on the outcome of this match as it refers to a Neji w/ Gentle Fist who doesn't need to rely on solely his physical abilities.

Well since he isn't targetting tenketsu, the 64 fists would be instant just like it was

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Evading KN0 and KN1 Naruto is an impressive feat. But both those versions of Naruto don't have Neji's striking speed.

Come on now. The target changing doesn't change the speed of the strikes. The only thing different in that scan is that he's not targeting one person, so his strikes are more widespread. I really hope you aren't actually claiming that 64 palms can be used instantaneously or anywhere near fast enough to warrant an exaggeration like that.

He doesn't need to strike as fast as Neji when the comparison isn't Naruto's striking speed vs. Neji's striking speed, it's Naruto's raw movement speed vs. Neji's striking speed. Sasuke is fast enough to evade KN0 and KN1 completely.

@bold is incorrect. Naruto was coming at him in a linear step by step format. The instant 64 fists he'll use here would create images behind, in front and both sides of where the real Neji would be. Sasuke would see 64 images in an instant...how would he be able to tell which precedes which in this scenario?

Why in the actual world would Sasuke see 64 images of Neji at once when 64 palms isn't instant nor are all the strikes made at the same time? They are made consecutively, thus as Neji is about to make his strikes, Sasuke will see the next step. Then there's the fact that Neji himself only moves in a straight line when he uses 64 palms so why would images be created to the side and behind of his body? :lol I really hope I don't have to type paragraphs on why this reach is a reach in the first place.

-First two strikes are about to be thrown.
-Sasuke sees them.
-Then they happen.

That's how it goes for all the strikes until we reach 64.

You've also not given me proof of Sasuke's exceptional striking speeds because i still stand by the fact that Sasuke won't tag Neji at all.

Don't need to when he doesn't need exceptional striking speed to tag Neji when this whole "Sasuke can't tag Neji" argument was based off a scan you failed to understand properly.

We see Kido releasing traps he set outside of Neji's 50m range and they appear close to him almost instantly (

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). logically isn't that giving the daggers a speed feat of a value not too far behind Neji's speed blitz at the end of the fight? Neji dodges them neg diff

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.

And to further increase the mother of all evasion feats, Neji doesn't see a similar wave of daggers until they were a few feet around him but he still proceeds to dodge all (apart from the ones that enter his blindspot) neg diff.

Spoiler

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Now if we look at that final wave of daggers, we see it seems there are 3 waves/layers of daggers all close to each other moving at the same speed. How Neji even evaded all those neg diff despite being surprised by them is simply astonishing. It gets even more astonishing if you picture the dagger as fists and the 2nd and 3rd waves/layers as successive fist strikes following the initial one.

I'm now even more convinced Sasuke isn't tagging Neji... and when you consider that since he isn't going to be using tenketsu strikes, he'll shift to another form of x-ray with his byakugan and clearly see nerves that can be hit to cause excruciating pain that requires a normal amount of force to be triggered. (Such as those in the neck or the diaphragm below the ribs...martial arts training lol) Neji clearly has a high chance of winning here.

Sasuke the aggressor charges into Neji. Neji uses his own momentum against him and then it becomes a case of if Neji can strike fast enough before Sasuke recovers his footing which i believe he can do.

Almost instantly? You can't even tell the speed as there is nothing to compare the speed of those daggers/traps to in any of the panels you posted let alone comparing to Neji's "blitz" which is actually a good feat since he managed to strike Kidomaru from that far away before he could react. How do you even know those traps were 50m away from him? If they were set up I'd assume they weren't in the same location as Kidomaru. I'd assume they were closer than that.

And to evade the rest of those daggers he had to get struck in the back by like 3 of them. How is that an evasion feat that proves Sasuke isn't going to touch him in close quarters? Close quarters as in all up in your face, not daggers and webs with limited speed feats from 30-50m away.

Oh yeah, and his blind spot is too small for multiple daggers to fit in there, so not all of the ones that hit him in the back were in his blind spot.

-Sasuke the aggressor charges at Neji.
-Sasuke throws a punch.
-Neji can dodge or block, if he blocks we go back to square one. If he dodges then Sasuke attacks him again after reading his movements.

Neji is not weaving Sasuke's attacks when someone who is easily faster than him was getting their ass handed to them. Absolutely no way. Not in this life time. He's not going to get demolished and be unable to react but this "he dodges, Sasuke falls, and Neji ends him" argument is ridiculous. And that's even assuming Sasuke attacks in the manner you are claiming he'll attack in. Why does he have to throw so much momentum in his hits that he'll tumble over or lose his footing completely if he misses? Even Naruto was throwing hella momentum in his strikes against Sasuke at VoTE yet he managed to stop himself from falling over or loosing his footing every single time so there's no reason Sasuke is going to lose his momentum from Neji dodging. Hinata is irrelevant as Hinata isn't Sasuke.

Lmao this is literally the same argument I was having in the VoTE Naruto vs. Neji thread. Reaction feats with little weight.

 

[KidGamer65]

Did i get it wrong or did u conplatly restrict Neji? Only byakugan? If he can't insert his chakra into enemy body that means he can't use Gentle fist? Like really?another stupid thread, This isnt fair fight! So Neji has to use fist for the first time in order to fight(bc if he uses palms it will have zero effect) :d would funny to see tho...

If i get it wrongly and if Neji can use Gentle fist, sorry but sasuke stands no chance against Neji in Taijutsu.

No chakra at all as stated in the OP. Thus no Gentle Fist. Only raw physical ability and Dojutsu.

 

[KidGamer65]

Neji couldn't even complete rotation before Naruto charged him from 10m away yet you guys actually think that Lee in 5G would lose to Neji without Gentle Fist in a pure hand to hand if he didn't use Ura Renge? Come on people.

 

[Kakashistomps]

No chakra at all as stated in the OP. Thus no Gentle Fist. Only raw physical ability and Dojutsu.

And that is the problem and that is what makes this thread into nosense... why u made this match up at the 1st place? We dont even know how neji fights with fists.... if u want to know which one is faster u could have make thread about their speed and not a nosense match up.... it is like put Gaara w/o sand or shino w/o bugs agaisnt someone.... Hyuga w/o Gentle Fist that is excell3nt idea. bravo!!!

 

[KidGamer65]

And that is the problem and that is what makes this thread into nosense... why u made this match up at the 1st place? We dont even know how neji fights with fists.... if u want to know which one is faster u could have make thread about their speed and not a nosense match up.... it is like put Gaara w/o sand or shino w/o bugs agaisnt someone....

I made this match because there are obviously people who think otherwise as you can clearly read. :lol

And dafuq? His fists are fists. His strikes are strikes. If they hit they will cause damage, just not as much damage as they would with Gentle Fist. Stop exaggerating the situation. Jesus :lol

 

[Kakashistomps]

I made this match because there are obviously people who think otherwise as you can clearly read. :lol

And dafuq? His fists are fists. His strikes are strikes. If they hit they will cause damage, just not as much damage as they would with Gentle Fist. Stop exaggerating the situation. Jesus :lol

Ehhh whatever,but bebate about this match up has no point IMO
imma go... good luck....

 

[KidGamer65]

Ehhh whatever,but bebate about this match up has no point IMO
imma go... good luck....

Meh, I think it's slightly unbalanced too, but hey, maybe I'm wrong..?

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[neosmith500]

Meh, I think it's slightly unbalanced too, but hey, maybe I'm wrong..?

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It truly is bro , it truly is:O , its like taking away Lee's Goken style and expecting him to perform better with soft attacks or using a completely different fighting style than the norm. Taking away jyuken is taking away Neji's martial techniques which disrupts form and forces him to fight differently in regards to countering 3T , where Sasuke doesn't have that problem then considering his boost in stats , Goken Fighting and VOTE durability among the fact that his sharingan specifically counters the style ur forcing Neji to utilize.

-Im not even sure how People think Neji wins this , but i too could be wrong.:kakashi: