Lmao, Kakashi would win now that I actually go back and re-read how the fight went down. Not sure why you guys even brought that up as a feat for a Taijutsu only fight when Kakashi only got kicked because:
-I THINK that Zabuza had his mist up, not sure but this isn't even the main issue.
-Right before that Kakashi had his Kunai to "Zabuza's" neck, only to realize that it was a clone, then he gets caught off guard by Zabuza's sword swing (a weapon that Kakashi needed to duck to dodge, not Taijutsu) and then gets kicked.
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All true lol
So this literally says nothing about Zabuza's Taijutsu skill in relation to Kakashi. Base Kakashi's stats are similar to Zabuza's. .5 less than him in strength and Taijutsu skill. Sharingan easily closes and surpasses said gap. In a raw hand to hand with no weapons or sense dulling mist Kakashi would beat Zabuza.
Speed is a physical ability, so I'm not sure what point you are getting at here. Strength is how he managed to knock Kakashi off his feet with that kick in the first place.
Average strength kick would knock anyone -who is crouching- off their feet. Definitely not as far as Kakashi goes there but they will be knocked off their feet.
The point i'm trying to get at is striking speed matters in a taijutsu fight. Kakashi has fast reactions and the only reason he doesn't react to the incoming kick was the speed of said kick despite Kakashi having faster reactions + 3T precog. Ducking is not excuse for not being able to get out of the way of said kick because he has the speed and reactions + precog to be able to get out fast enough. (
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Naruto at this point is obviously a billion times slower than Zabuza yes but I'm only trying to show that Kakashi could have reacted despite ducking initially if that kick didn't come faster than he could react.
Movement speed =/= striking speed.
In terms of the fight we have on our hands Sasuke dodging a linear punch from Naruto aided by his movement speed
coming from a distance doesn't prove for a fact that Sasuke can dodge all of Neji's strikes in an all in your face cqc simply because he has precog. Neji has insane striking speeds and Sasuke reacting to that Naruto's movement speed is negated here as this is an all in your face fight not requiring distance movement speed reaction feats.
Consider Neji isn't the aggressor type.. and consider a scenario where Sasuke comes in with a punch that Neji dodges or parries slightly leaving Sasuke unbalanced.... is there proof Sasuke has the insane reactions to avoid all the simultaneous fast punches Neji can deal in that instant?
Because it isn't and I've shown why. How does this example prove anything? DB 1 Neji and Lee are equal in the Taijutsu stat, that's skill, yet Neji "neg diffs him", and that's because of abilities outside of his skill. Gentle Fist.
And can you provide scans or statements of these instances?
@bold Correct me if i'm wrong..but your 'why' is because of strength right? Wouldn't this mean no one would be able to beat those Raikage's because i'm pretty sure strengthened punches won't be putting them down in a taijutsu only match-up.
You're also leaving out the byakugan entirely as if it had no hand in Neji defeating Lee yet keep bringing up how Sharingan would increase taijutsu stats.
What instances?
Man, there is no but. Gentle Fist dramatically changes your entire comparison. The only way this post makes sense is if you can prove that the damage Lee takes from the Eight Gates is as lethal as what he'd take from the Gentle Fist or as crippling, and there's no way you can prove that because it isn't true. Well placed hits can cripple, Lee doesn't feel the after effects of the Gates until after the fight because the Gates, while they damage him, they also pump energy into his body. Once Gates are deactivated said energy leaves his body and he's left with the damage.
The gates are very crippling
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-
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. but the effects of when he's active gates enables Lee to still fight through such pain.
Simple gentle fist pokes would cause pain but that pain would be tanked and he would still be able to pummel Neji neg diff.
The hyuga can put anyone down with a critical hit in a vital place. Neji and Lee would just be sparring and there would be no need for him to go to such extreme measures just like in his fight with Hinata. You're implying Neji would have had to touch Lee just once with gentle fist to cripple him entirely but we see in gates Lee already fights through the pain. Not to mention Lee is fast and proficient enough in taijutsu himself and won't allow for Neji to just calmly aim at a vital organ with his gentle fist.
Disable as in defeat? No. But it can easily cripple or hinder them.
Touched on above.
You asked why Zabuza could do that to Kakashi and that was my response, I wasn't talking about Sasuke or Neji or even referencing them, I said that Zabuza can do that because Kakashi isn't at a level at Base where he'd be far superior to Zabuza w/ Sharingan.
Very well then.
Then how does Sasuke win? Because from all i'm reading from your posts i'm getting the impression you're implying Sasuke wins because he's stronger.
Yup, and it really doesn't change my argument or hurt it.
It does sorta..You keep mentioning physical abilities and we know the only physical ability Sasuke trumps Neji in is strength. That's why i suggested you stop using physical abilities and straight up use strength instead.
Yes, I know that. :lol What does bringing this up do to hurt my argument or help yours though? Not sure what you are getting at, but Neji will be moving and whether or not it's at the last moment as long as Sasuke can see him Sharingan will predict said movement. When Neji decides to move in relation to Sasuke doesn't change that fact.
This seems very wrong. Dodging and countering a linear punch coming from a distance is not the same as attacking then dodging and then countering in cqc. The latter requires extremely fast body speed. Despite the precog of 3T, Sasuke somehow still got cut from a linear punch (
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). Isn't that implying if Naruto could strike faster he would have beat Sasuke there?
Neji won't be the aggressor..this is backed by his style in the manga. 3T doesn't give any images until Neji decides to move and at that point it will be too late because we see from the scans that Neji doesn't move until the very last minute when a strike is in his range for a parry or dodge for his counter attack. My question is would Sasuke then be able to recover faster than Neji can strike in that single instant?
No, all that scan implies is that Neji can touch Lee, not that he can outright evade him. Anything else is baseless. Stop with this "SRA Neji>>>" when the DB shows their differences and Neji only went up a point in speed and skill in Taijutsu.
I'm not sure how you can say this when at the bottom of this post you mention light punches would cause Neji to stagger. Why wouldn't that be applicable in Neji and Lee's fight. Lee is stronger than Neji and he would need just a punch of his to cause Neji to stagger and then wreck Neji. And as far as we know, Neji never lost to Lee.
A point difference is a big stat jump. .5 is the normal jump in stats we see.
Meh, I don't see it right now.
Understandable.
No, you said you wanted proof that Sasuke has super fast striking speed even though that's not necessary to tag him. If you simply want proof that Sasuke can hit Neji then it's been and will continue to be provided.
You haven't proven it isn't necessary to tag him. Neji evades all his strikes neg diff.
Sasuke can't flat out attack faster than Neji can dodge nor can Neji attack faster than Sasuke can dodge. Either one can evade a head on attack by the other, but is Neji fast enough to evade all of Sasuke's repeated blows? No, he's not. Sasuke already slapped around someone much faster than Neji in canon if you want to talk about speed.
That someone was faster than Neji in movement. That someone was coming from distances with a single linear punch. We are talking about cqc here are we not.
I disagree with at bold and i'm open to you proving me wrong about it. A dying Neji seems to have moved his hands 64 multiple times in an instant here.
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Also consider just inserting chakra wouldn't be enough to make Kido spin that excessively.
Then your argument just became weaker, because if Kidomaru is firing these from over 50m away, when they have no extraordinary speed feats how are you coming to the conclusion that Neji dodging these from 50m away=him dodging all of Sasuke's attacks in close quarters which isn't even a meter apart? Doesn't make any sense.
No it doesn't lol..Kido doesn't direct the daggers. Those daggers were fast enough to force Neji into dodging them one by one instead of heading towards a direction and jumping over the waves or sliding under them.
His blind spot is behind his neck, those daggers didn't just hit that area. So no, it wasn't just his blindspot. The feat is being downplayed because:
1. It was from 50 whole meters away, I mean, come on. :lol CQC takes place when both combatants are not even a meter from each other. At least the trap was from 50m away.
2. They don't have any kind of extraordinary speed feat that'd make reacting to them a feat that lets Neji seamlessly and effortlessly dodge all of Sasuke's attacks when Sasuke has the speed and timing to hit someone as fast as Naruto.
- Kido clearly explains the reason for the daggers on Neji's back (
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). You expect them to hit his blindspot exactly but that's not what the manga shows as we see none actually hitting the base of the neck where the blindspot is. (
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).
- The scan where Neji dodges 3 layers of aoe daggers after realizing them when they were only a few feet in front of him seems to disagree though. After dodging the first layer, he logically shouldn't be able to entirely dodge the second layer not less a third layer as the daggers are very much close to each other. But yet he dodges them low diff.
Actually we see no daggers tagged him from the front and sides but only his back where his blindspot is. Meaning without a blindspot, he dodges all neg diff.
@underlined Are we talking about the part after Sasuke gets 3T and then punches Naruto? If that's the case, i disagree. That punch that connected with Naruto's face was as a result of timing not speed. Without 3T to give him precog i highly doubt he'll be fast enough to punch that Naruto.
I've explained why this feat isn't as amazing as you make it out to be. And Neji's reaction to the daggers is shown in the second panel, so it was before the daggers were that close to him but it was definitely closer than 50m.
Sorry but your reasons that the feat is not amazing don't add up. @bold does it really matter when its obvious they are only a few feet from him and it doesn't look like he's even steady/ready to dodge them?
Never said he will be. Him being the aggressor doesn't change the fact that he'll have to make an offensive attack to actually win. Over half of the scans you linked show him attacking in response to an enemy attack. Is he the one initiating the conflict? No. Is he still attacking though? Yes. That's my point.
And my point is Neji doesn't attack until the last minute after he uses your movements against you for a counter strike. 3T isn't predicting moves until Neji actually starts to move.
Or he could just not throw a maximum strength punch and land a light hit(s) on Neji and then follow up with a heavy hit once he's caused him to stagger. If Neji evades the first punch then he continues the assault. If Neji tries to run the entire match he eventually gets hit, if Neji goes on the offensive Sasuke counters him and hits him.
You're implying light hits would cause Neji to stagger and as i mentioned before, that's a tactic that would have worked for Lee since he's faster and stronger than Neji but as we know, he never won implying Lee with all his strength and superior speed never tagged an inferior CE prelims Neji.
w:..
