Tsunade and Saukra vs Deidara and Kakuzu

Tazzilla88

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Mar 16, 2012
Messages
2,505
Reaction score
302
It would appear that way while conveniently not considering the context of the feats you've presented. Gaara's sand is far more overall useful. You're outrageously fanboying with the whole lot of this Gokage ranking.

More Useful would imply that Gaara's sand has more uses of which it has 2
Or that is superior in form to in that which it is used.

But you can't provide a single argument. No one has been able to counter my argument. All you can do is try to dismiss the whole lot of examples and logical rationale in whole because you can't refute in detail.

Gaara's Sand has two uses: Offensive and Defensive
Katsuyu has at least four uses: Offensive, Defensive, Supportive, and Information

If we are to break down those categories offensive Gaara's sand can: and
Offensively Katsuyu can and

Defensively Gaara's sand can:
Defensively Katsuyu can , and

Supportively Gaara's sand can: shield?
Supportively Katsuyu can
You must be registered for see images

Informationally Gaara's sand can: Connect with his optimic nerve
Informationally Katsuyu can be in Thousands of locations and relay information between them. Katsuyu and Tsunade also have a for information

How exactly am I fanboying? Not a thing that I have stated isn't supported by logic or canon facts.
 
Last edited:

Forbidden Technique

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Messages
3,762
Reaction score
419
More Useful would imply that Gaara's sand has more uses of which it has 2
Or that is superior in form to in that which it is used.

But you can't provide a single argument. No one has been able to counter my argument. All you can do is try to dismiss the whole lot of examples and logical rationale in whole because you can't refute in detail.

Gaara's Sand has two uses: Offensive and Defensive
Katsuyu has at least four uses: Offensive, Defensive, Supportive, and Information

Already incorrect. From what I've read, you know very close to nothing about Gaara. He has far inferior offensive and defensive capabilities to Katsuyu, number one.

Number two, we have the fact that Gaara's sand can, and already has been utilized in a supportive role:

(In addition to the plethora of occasions he has supported his comrades by shielding them)
You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Number three, we have the fact that Gaara's sand can, and already has been utilized for information:

You must be registered for see images

Number four, we also have the fact that Gaara's sand can, and has been utilized for sensing and locating from all ranges:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

If we are to break down those categories offensive Gaara's sand can: Grab and crush
Offensively Katsuyu can Crush and Melt

Defensively Gaara's sand can shield:
Defensively Katsuyu can grab, and shield

Supportively Gaara's sand can: shield?
Supportively Katsuyu can heal

Informationally Gaara's sand can: Connect with his optimic nerve
Informationally Katsuyu can be in Thousands of locations and relay information between them. Katsuyu and Tsunade also have a telepathic link for information

How exactly am I fanboying? Not a thing that I have stated isn't supported by logic or canon facts.

What you're literally doing is this,

A professional boxer can punch
A child can punch

A professional boxer can shield himself
A child can shield himself

A professional boxer can dodge
A child can try to dodge

What is this supposed to even prove? It's silliness, stop. Gaara's sand is far more superior and useful. It's offensive and defensive capabilities are stronger, faster, and far more versatile. You bring up CST... Katsuyu was summoned way prior to that, and was given the amount of time to even have the opportunity to shield and protect the Leaf Village inhabitants, while the whole village was completely destroyed. Gaara's sand on the other hand was able to instantly save a good portion of the village without a scratch being dealt:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

The very best Katsuyu could of done with no prior preparation time under a similar scenerio, would be to heal the survivors after the bomb went off. Not to mention it's a summon, with a time limit. Katsuyu is simply no where close to as useful, and Tsunade is nowhere close to being above Gaara in the Gokage totem pole.
 
Last edited:

Tazzilla88

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Mar 16, 2012
Messages
2,505
Reaction score
302
Already incorrect. From what I've read, you know very close to nothing about Gaara. He has far inferior offensive and defensive capabilities to Katsuyu, number one.

Number two, we have the fact that Gaara's sand can, and already has been utilized in a supportive role:

(In addition to the plethora of occasions he has supported his comrades by shielding them)
You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Number three, we have the fact that Gaara's sand can, and already has been utilized for information:

You must be registered for see images

Number four, we also have the fact that Gaara's sand can, and has been utilized for sensing and locating from all ranges:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images
Ok so I'll start here. I'll give the credit that Gaara's sand can be used to support via creating platforms. Which pales in comparison to healing. Period. It does however also allow for sealing, which would have been the correct response which I purposely left open for you to state so our game could continue a little further. But sealing in the vast set of circumstances has less utility than healing so again a moot point. I will give you the Sand Clone, I did forget about that, that advantage can be stacked against healing in terms of support depending on the situation and we'd have to evaluate the overall benefit of healing during a battle which has increased vastly increases mission success over the use of sand clones.

(clarification) Whether clones increase mission more success as opposed to whether healing increases mission success more is a fair question, that has no obvious answer as there are no statistics to it.

Though I will not that no one thought that elemental or shadow clones should become standard for the sake of improving mission success but it was argued that healing should do so for that reason.
I already spoke about his sand eye, which tells me you didn't read for accuracy or understanding but just to reply. Yes he can link his sand to his optic nerve. Quite literally said that. And countered with a telepathic connection.

Sand sensing being used for information is a reach. At least compared to Katsuyu informing Shikaku of the decision Raikage and Hokage made about Naruto and Bee or about the progress of the battle thus far, or in provide Tsunade information about how many and who is deceased. Sand sensing touches an object and Gaara can reason that an object is there, but the information provided by the sand is minimal.

What you're literally doing is this,

A professional boxer can punch
A child can punch

A professional boxer can shield himself
A child can shield himself

A professional boxer can dodge
A child can dodge

What is this supposed to even prove? It's silliness, stop. Gaara's sand is far more superior and useful. It's offensive and defensive capabilities are stronger, faster, and far more versatile. You bring up CST... Katsuyu was summoned way prior to that, and was given the amount of time to even have the opportunity to shield and protect the Leaf Village inhabitants, while the whole village was completely destroyed. Gaara's sand on the other hand was able to instantly save the village without a scratch being dealt:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

The very best Katsuyu could of done with no prior preparation time under a similar scenerio, would be to heal the survivors after the bomb went off. Not to mention it's a summon, with a time limit. Katsuyu is simply no where close to as useful, and Tsunade is nowhere close to being above Gaara in the Gokage totem pole.
Actually that's not what I did at all, it is called prefecing an argument. You're obviously about to respond, and I laid out the building blocks to my argument.

The correct analogy would be
A Professional Boxer can weave and punch
A Kung Fuist can Punch and pivot

Stop being silly, this is why in the hyperlinks used, I tried to exemplify the strongest instances of Gaara showcasing his power.
So in the instance of him Shielding the village from C3 it was compared to Katsuyu shielding villagers from Chou Shinra Tensei

Gaara's strongest crushing technique was compared to a tiny clone of Katsuyu producing winds and damage that could crush. You see how Gaara didn't get the short end of the stick there?

Come on FT you can do better than that the analogy was lazy and false. And you're arguments don't take into account the nuance of mine. Try again.

Also Katsuyu is not a summon with a time limit but has been explained to be a summon connected to the Yin Seal. Which proves you don't know about Katsuyu.

Edit: Did you say that Katsuyu was summoned before Chou Shinra Tensei but neglect to mention that Gaara's Sand had been present and infused with his chakra before C3? They were both readily available before the attacks and managed to shield effectively in the time it took to launch the attacks.
Now if we swap the damage from C3 and Chou Shinra Tensei are you supposing that Gaara could have saved his villagers from CST?
 
Last edited:

RedRobin

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
Mar 27, 2014
Messages
12,929
Reaction score
834
Already incorrect. From what I've read, you know very close to nothing about Gaara. He has far inferior offensive and defensive capabilities to Katsuyu, number one.

Number two, we have the fact that Gaara's sand can, and already has been utilized in a supportive role:

(In addition to the plethora of occasions he has supported his comrades by shielding them)
You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Number three, we have the fact that Gaara's sand can, and already has been utilized for information:

You must be registered for see images

Number four, we also have the fact that Gaara's sand can, and has been utilized for sensing and locating from all ranges:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images



What you're literally doing is this,

A professional boxer can punch
A child can punch

A professional boxer can shield himself
A child can shield himself

A professional boxer can dodge
A child can try to dodge

What is this supposed to even prove? It's silliness, stop. Gaara's sand is far more superior and useful. It's offensive and defensive capabilities are stronger, faster, and far more versatile. You bring up CST... Katsuyu was summoned way prior to that, and was given the amount of time to even have the opportunity to shield and protect the Leaf Village inhabitants, while the whole village was completely destroyed. Gaara's sand on the other hand was able to instantly save a good portion of the village without a scratch being dealt:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

The very best Katsuyu could of done with no prior preparation time under a similar scenerio, would be to heal the survivors after the bomb went off. Not to mention it's a summon, with a time limit. Katsuyu is simply no where close to as useful, and Tsunade is nowhere close to being above Gaara in the Gokage totem pole.
VI. Katsuyu
Katsuyu is a slug that hails from Shikkostu forest which is as Mount Myōboku and Ryūchi Cave. Katsuyu is a , Tsunade can only summon sections of her from the forest. Two Byakugo users can summon of Katsuyu so we have yet to see the other 90% of her. Katsuyu's to the Yin seal.


Kuchiyose no Jutsu

Katsuyu does not need to be summoned directly under Tsunade, she can be summoned in front of her, to the . Katsuyu can be summoned quickly with a and on the floor.

Tsunade can jump in the air and summon Katsuyu in the sky like as the technique is simply summoning a boss summon so they can fall from above on the opponent.

Telepathic Connection with Tsunade(User)
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
Tsunade was able to feel what Katsuyu felt and knew where she was, with this she saw Kakashi had died. After CST she was able to sense all the carnage through Katsuyu.

Size and Height
Something that people never take into account when judging Tsunade's abilities. Katsuyu's sheer size alone gives the win to Tsunade in many match ups.
You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

If you scale techniques to Katsuyu, you will see they dont even reach her half way.

Acid

You must be registered for see images



Databook 2 - Zesshi Nensan:
NINJUTSU; Zesshi Nensan (Tongue and Teeth Acidic Paste)
User: Katsuyu
Offensive; Close, Medium, Long Ranges; Rank: none

Main text

A highly concentrated acidic paste is suddenly released from the mouth! The acid boasts such high density and concentration it dilutes even stone, vaporizing it! There are no setup moves to do before this jutsu's activation. Thanks to this one can easily strike, catching the enemy unawares, which has the advantage of denying them any opportunity to dodge.

Caption

-Thawing, dissolving and melting* into nothingness, the rain of strong acid causes everything to fade away.

Picture comment

-The acidic rain is spilled out all of a sudden, with a timing that won't even allow for anticipation! All things it touches will melt away, losing their shapes once and for all (tn: confusing sentence: I don't know if I got it 100% right).


Used with division imagine a bunch of Katsuyu clones shooting acid from every direction, the opponent has no escape. Due to its suddenness its very hard to dodge already.

Look at the amount of acid she is able to spray, it looks like a little compared to Boss Summons but against a little human body its a lot. Look at her range, Manda was across from her she was able to shoot acid across that distance. Compare the boulder it melted, look how big the boulder is compared to Manda's tail. Anyone stupid enough to get near Katsuyu will be melted indefinitely.

The acid has the ability to as well which shows how strong it actually is.


Division

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images



Databook 2 - Katsuyu Daibunretsu:
NINJUTSU; Katsuyu Daibunretsu (Katsuyu's Grand Division of the Slugs*)
User: Katsuyu
Supplementary; Rank: none

Main text

Capturing her is impossible already! Because she is a boneless mollusk, she has a fantastical ability to transform at will, that of deciding to divide her whole body or to reunite it. All physical attacks are nullified before this technique. No matter how violent the strike, it won't amount to more than a fruitless attempt. The enemy will just exhaust themselves accordingly and eventually fall to the ground.

Caption

-Her mollusk's body, which has no part that can be grasped, brings forth a full-body division!

Picture comment

-She avoids the attacks by dividing her whole body. And she did so with ease, even against Manda, Orochimaru's summoned Great Snake's firm and tight grip.
*"Katsuyu" is just a custom reading for "namekuji", which translates as "slug".

She can divide at will and easily come together again, capturing her is impossible. Anyone who comes close to her will have to watch out for a bunch of . You never just fight Tsunade, you fight about 1000 others opponents as well.

Liquefying
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
She can deconstruct at will and cover a whole battlefield. Since she has a to Tsunade she can pretty much be a radar for Tsunade as she can tell her when an opponent has entered her liquid radius since she will feel them.

This can also be used to quickly move to one place, she can deconstruct and move as a liquid faster than she could in her slug form. It took her seconds to cover the battlefield.

Also if an opponent comes near her she can deconstruct and drown them out.


Durability
Katsuyu is very durable and can absorb people her in, she can pretty be a meat shield for Tsunade against any attack as even if she dies she doesnt really die. Tsunade summoned her to protect the citizens in Konoha and Katsuyu absorbed the impact from CST so it does not really matter what happens to Katsuyu.

Katsuyu absorbing an impact as shown , that fall would have broken Naruto's back had he not been on Katsuyu who took the impact.


Surviving Kyuubi Chakra
Just the 4 tails.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
[/IMG]
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images

Tiny Katsuyu survived the chakra of the 6-8 tails.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
This Chakra is very corrosive and acidic as seen by Orochimaru's snake decomposing/metling and then Naruto's skin melting off. Look at all the damage caused by the 3 tails powering up and a little Katsuyu clone was in the middle of all of it.

Surviving against CST
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
Katsuyu was in the area of the red boxes, she obviously took the hits at where the destruction was most severe and was decimating things to nothing. She absorbed people and were pushed back. Obviously werent before ST hit. She is shown in areas of destruction [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] before CST hits.

You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
Red lines represent the ground level at which Konoha used to be and you can clearly see the gigantic crater it made. It literally dug deep down into the ground definitely hitting all those spots Katsuyu was in, as seen in the red boxes from the previous images above.

Mobility/Speed

As already stated Katsuyu can deconstruct and travel fast across the ground as a liquid and when she splits her parts quickly can come back together. (See Division and Liquefying above)

She was of shizune and the others when Pain's Rhino summon was attacking.

As CST was hitting she was fast enough to whom she was . Just goes to show how fast she can absorb someone.

Countering Genjustu

As long as Katsuyu is on Tsunade's shoulder or as long as Tsunade is on Katsuyu she can constantly break her out of genjustu since Katsuyu directly pours chakra into whoever she is on which would break the person in a genjustu out.

Also this could possible work without Tsunade needing to be touching Katsuyu since she does have a telepathic connection(See Telepathic Connection with Tsunade above) with her she could easily break her out in the same way Bijuus break out their Jins.

Katsuyu is just as versatile if not more than Gaara's sand. She overall is able to do more than his sand can.

Tazilla makes a good point in the fact that Gaara's sand would not be able to protect his village from CST while Katsuyu could. CST would blow his sand away in the same way it blew through tons of buildings.

You also talk about how Katsuyu needs to spread first but ignore how Gaara's sand was right there on the ground for him to use.
 
Last edited:

Icelerate

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Jun 10, 2012
Messages
9,255
Reaction score
1,262
Gaara can pressure opponents much better with sand than Tsunade or Sakura can with Katsuyu.
 

Tazzilla88

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Mar 16, 2012
Messages
2,505
Reaction score
302
Gaara can pressure opponents much better with sand than Tsunade or Sakura can with Katsuyu.

Firstly, that certainly wasn't the original claim made. The claim was that the Sand is more useful. I debunked that so now the claim changes? Fine.

Maybe he can we've only seen Tsunade use Katsuyu against the sannin, we never saw her usage of slugs which garnered her the name slug princess. You're making a claim that has no evidence to it either way as you have insufficient data.

More succinctly, being aware of the many mini clones Katsuyu can make, which even in their tiny sizes seem huge to the average shinobi. Add to that the tiny clones abilities to kill and I miss your point. You can't actually assess if Katsuyu is capable of pressuring the average shinobi more than the Sand is. The clones are fast enough to seemingly come from nowhere and protect people from things such as Pein's Rhinocerous which is of importance because of the sheer number of clones that can move at that speed whilst being able to perform a deadly attack, and to do so without input from allowing her to focus her attention on other aspects of the battle which aren't Katsuyu. Meaning that at best Gaara's only option is his sand and it is that which he most devote his attention to. Whereas, Katsuyu does not need to be told what to do or how to battle.

And this is before taking into account that Tsunade practices two types of medical ninjutsu, that which heals and that which kills. And that Katsuyu is a medium through which Tsunade can channel her medical ninjutsu.

So perhaps Gaara can use his sand to more effectively pressure opponents, perhaps not. In all likelihood it's dependent on what the opponent brings to the table. Someone such as Jiraiya who utilizes oil for instance would neutralize the sand. Likewise Preta path can absorb chakra from Katsuyu.
 

RedRobin

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
Mar 27, 2014
Messages
12,929
Reaction score
834
Gaara can pressure opponents much better with sand than Tsunade or Sakura can with Katsuyu.

Not really. Katsuyu's acid is more lethal than anything Gaara has with sand. Now people always argue its slow but what does speed have to do with anything when acid can be shot from thousands of clones surrounding the opponent?

Not to mention her liquid form is pretty fast covering the ground of the shinobi alliance in seconds.
 

super yang

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Jun 2, 2014
Messages
4,204
Reaction score
150
Does the definition say works of literature? No. However, it says all works written by an author of which the databooks were.

of course not. its a general definition for a general term. speaking of canon.
we are applying general terms to specific entities.
if kishimoto authenticates his signature on a bank note, is that canon too, lol?
are naruto official action figures canon too?
the ''works of a writer'' refer specifically to literature
I don't thibk U realize how often people use some words improperly & out of context til the point it pecomes popular slang and accepted jargon - ''canon'' is one of them.
(for example there is no such thing as canonical artwork or a ''canon movie poster designed by so & so'' for naruto or another anime, despite people -including the adults, artists & writers themselves, yes- using the term that way all the time)

canon refers to literature. this is very simple.

now, putting it aside that U disagree with me(we are arguing pointless semantics), the fact still remains that the databook contains no substance. there is nothing you can objectively or concretely gather from those number markings, jutsu rankings or fanciful descriptions of ninjutsu that the literature has already authenticated.

of course many claim to draw supplementary/additoinal supported conclusions from the book, but they've simply gotten carried away w/ their own personal head-canon & fan-fiction to the point where they arbitrarily fill in what they perceive to be gaps or inconsistencies in the literature(manga). Well fiction is inconsistent by nature; theres no need to apologize for an author...
end rant~
 
Last edited:

Tazzilla88

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Mar 16, 2012
Messages
2,505
Reaction score
302
of course not. its a general definition for a general term. speaking of canon.
we are applying general terms to specific entities.
if kishimoto authenticates his signature on a bank note, is that canon too, lol?
are naruto official action figures canon too?
the ''works of a writer'' refer specifically to literature
I don't thibk U realize how often people use some words improperly & out of context til the point it pecomes popular slang and accepted jargon - ''canon'' is one of them.
(for example there is no such thing as canonical artwork or a ''canon movie poster designed by so & so'' for naruto or another anime, despite people -including the adults, artists & writers themselves, yes- using the term that way all the time)

canon refers to literature. this is very simple.

now, putting it aside that U disagree with me(we are arguing pointless semantics), the fact still remains that the databook contains no substance. there is nothing you can objectively or concretely gather from those number markings, jutsu rankings or fanciful descriptions of ninjutsu that the literature has already authenticated.

of course many claim to draw supplementary/additoinal supported conclusions from the book, but they've simply gotten carried away w/ their own personal head-canon & fan-fiction to the point where they arbitrarily fill in what they perceive to be gaps or inconsistencies in the literature(manga). Well fiction is inconsistent by nature; theres no need to apologize for an author...
end rant~

Firstly, semantics aren't pointless. That would be why linguists study it. Semantically, you're wrong.

Substance wise you're wrong. Rankings of jutsu if not substance what would you call it? It's information not provided in the manga provided to the reader to clarify artistic intentions. You not seeing a use in them, does not mean there is no use in them

The thing which separates a signed check (argumentum ad absurdum) from the databook is that Kishi published them as supplementary substance to the manga. Meaning that the things in the manga exist within the same fictional universe as Naruto. And that Kishi intended for them to be used in tangent with one another.
 

super yang

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Jun 2, 2014
Messages
4,204
Reaction score
150
Firstly, semantics aren't pointless. That would be why linguists study it. Semantically, you're wrong.
no, its pointless within the context of our discussion on the relevance of the databook.
speaking of how we use the term ''canon''.
IT. is pointless. to. our. discussiond. U see how that works?

Substance wise you're wrong. Rankings of jutsu if not substance what would you call it? It's information not provided in the manga provided to the reader to clarify artistic intentions. You not seeing a use in them, does not mean there is no use in them
if they had a use within the literature, why aren't they present?
what substance is kakuzus jutsu rank? what does that mean? what does that display?
what did we not know about zukkoku that ''b-rank'' changes any thing?
it might help in creating a card game, & it might help some people enjoy the fictional universe more in their own imaginations & writing fanfics, but it does n't supplement the literature. it has nop substance.

I'm not supposed to see a use in them - I read the manga already.

The thing which separates a signed check (argumentum ad absurdum) from the databook is that Kishi published them as supplementary substance to the manga. Meaning that the things in the manga exist within the same fictional universe as Naruto. And that Kishi intended for them to be used in tangent with one another.
no, it isn't a supplement to the manga, its a supplement to the wide universe of naruto related merchandise
 

Tazzilla88

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Mar 16, 2012
Messages
2,505
Reaction score
302
no, its pointless within the context of our discussion on the relevance of the databook.
speaking of how we use the term ''canon''.
IT. is pointless. to. our. discussiond. U see how that works?

if they had a use within the literature, why aren't they present?
what substance is kakuzus jutsu rank? what does that mean? what does that display?
what did we not know about zukkoku that ''b-rank'' changes any thing?
it might help in creating a card game, & it might help some people enjoy the fictional universe more in their own imaginations & writing fanfics, but it does n't supplement the literature. it has nop substance.

I'm not supposed to see a use in them - I read the manga already.

no, it isn't a supplement to the manga, its a supplement to the wide universe of naruto related merchandise

But it isn't. You're misusing the word canon. Semantics is the study of the meaning of words. Quite literally the time in which semantics is not pointless. See how that works? You misuse a word, and someone goes to semantics to point out that you are not using it's meaning correctly.

It allows us to understand portrayal. It's all about portrayal. This is a work of art. The artists wants you to properly interpret. This isn't complicated.
 

super yang

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Jun 2, 2014
Messages
4,204
Reaction score
150
But it isn't. You're misusing the word canon. Semantics is the study of the meaning of words. Quite literally the time in which semantics is not pointless. See how that works? You misuse a word, and someone goes to semantics to point out that you are not using it's meaning correctly.
no, we aren't discussing semanticxs & linguistics themselves, at least i'm not.
if U are better equipped to teach about them thats fine, but this isn't the place

and no, -you- are misusing the word canon, not me(semantic arguements again!!)

It allows us to understand portrayal. It's all about portrayal. This is a work of art. The artists wants you to properly interpret. This isn't complicated.

lolwut, portrayal is subjective & interpretive~!!
i know how the characters are portrayed because I read the completed story involving them.

the manga is fully complete in spite of the databooks existence.
the book will never change, edit, amend or rewrite any manga events, because thats not its purpose. it is pure fanservice

the author wants U to read & be entertained & be successful himself. he does not want U to need a 2nd guidebook to fully understand & enjopy his art.
but if U want to pay money for a book that says sasori has a ''5'' in genjutsu even though genjutsu is strictly a plot device involvint the plot-moving characters, & that asuma putting his default wind chakra on his knife is ''b-rank'' the author is okay w/ that too, lol
 
Last edited:

Tazzilla88

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Mar 16, 2012
Messages
2,505
Reaction score
302
Portrayal is determined by Author's Intent. You would like to just interpret freely because you don't like what Kishi is trying to explain. However, as these are his characters, in his fictional universe he would be the one who can state additional information. Which he does do. Author's Intent would be the thing that dictates what is written in the databook. If not, from where does he get the things that he writes? If it is not a manifestation of his intent and will for his characters?

Something not following the linear progression of story does not dismiss it from the canon.
 

super yang

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Jun 2, 2014
Messages
4,204
Reaction score
150
Portrayal is determined by Author's Intent. You would like to just interpret freely because you don't like what Kishi is trying to explain. However, as these are his characters, in his fictional universe he would be the one who can state additional information. Which he does do. Author's Intent would be the thing that dictates what is written in the databook. If not, from where does he get the things that he writes? If it is not a manifestation of his intent and will for his characters?
there is no additional info, is what U can't grasp.

lol, ok which page of the databook cements the ''correct portrayal'' of the very fist set of five kages?

no wait, what is ''restricted interpretation'' if im not suppose to ''freely'' use my imagination & intellectual capacity to interpret details to understand the fictional story i'm reading?
its his literature that he shares w/ the world...

also which section of the databook gives the ''Authors intent guideline'' does it have keys & symbols telling U where each characters usage of a jutsu is given a specific ''portrayal value'' lol

U are trying way too hard now

why doesn't the databook come out before the literature if it is so essential?

how U think of such apologetics is beyond me...
 
Last edited:

Tazzilla88

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Mar 16, 2012
Messages
2,505
Reaction score
302
there is no additional info, is what U can't grasp.

lol, ok which page of the databook cements the ''correct portrayal'' of the very fist set of five kages?

no wait, what is ''restricted interpretation'' if im not suppose to ''freely'' use my imagination & intellectual capacity to interpret details understand the fictional story i'm reading.
its his literature that he shares w/ the world...

also which section of the databook gives the ''Authors intent guideline'' does it have keys & symbols telling U where each characters usage of a jutsu is given a specific ''portrayal value'' lol

U are trying way too hard now

why doesn't the databook come out before the literature if it is so essential?

how U think of such apologetics is beyond me...

No additional info? So I suppose you knew Tsunade has 4 elements...

That's a stupid question, which page of the manga cements the correct portrayal of Sasuke, no one page allows you to understand the complexity of his character? Huh imagine that.

No one is trying hard, except maybe you to use the most poor logic I think I might've seen on this base.

Um because they clarify what he just wrote and discuss them in greater detail after they've been revealed otherwise they'd be spoilers. Really? Don't be stupid.
 
Last edited:

super yang

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Jun 2, 2014
Messages
4,204
Reaction score
150
No additional info? So I suppose you knew Tsunade has 4 elements..
.noone ''has elements''. they have elemental jutsu. they also have a primary affinity chakra nature, but kishimoto never gave 1 to tsunade, becuz it had nothing to do w/ her character portrayal, see how that works?
Tsunade has no elemental jutsu.

That's a stupid question, which page of the manga cements the correct portrayal of Sasuke, no one page allows you to understand the complexity of his character? Huh imagine that.
no, i'm the one who said that it has to be interpreted remember . I know how to read. lol at trying to turn it back on me.
its a ''data''book, so what data represents correct portrayals, because sasuke has character page, right?

No one is trying hard, except maybe you to use the most poor logic I think I might've seen on this base.
i has no logix!!!...uh oh,... (well at least U haven't given up & directly called me a liar, lol)

Um because they clarify what he just wrote and discuss them in greater detail after they've been revealed otherwise they'd be spoilers. Really? Don't be stupid.
what discussion?? I thought I was reading a story?
 
Last edited:

Tazzilla88

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Mar 16, 2012
Messages
2,505
Reaction score
302
.noone ''has elements''. they have elemental jutsu. they also have a primary affinity chakra nature, but kishimoto never gave 1 to tsunade, becuz it had nothing to do w/ her character portrayal, see how that works?
Tsunade has no elemental jutsu.

no, i'm the one who said that it has to be interpreted remember . I know how to read. lol at trying to turn it back on me.
its a ''data''book, so what data represents correct portrayals, because sasuke has character page, right?


i has no logix!!!...uh oh,... (well at least U haven't given up & directly called me a liar, lol)

what discussion?? I thought I was reading a story?
And this would be my point, the databook does have additional information. You just categorically reject as not fitting your mental narrative.

You know how to read but do you know how to comprehend? You asked me to point out a specific page, through analogy I was calling the idea itself completely and totally stupid

Stories can be further elucidated, since we don't live in that universe there is much we don't know about. Namely all that happens off panel. Things happen off panel, we don't know what exactly. But necessarily things happened off panel. One of those things is Tsunade's use of elemental ninutsu. Which Kishi stated she had.

Or to provide another example I wasn't sure where the Water from Mei's Waterspout had come from I thought perhaps her mouth, but according from the databook it comes from beneath the ground which is fascinating in terms of what it says about her power and it affects the utility of the technique itself. It also makes more sense how she was able to use to suitons back to back.
 
Last edited:

super yang

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Jun 2, 2014
Messages
4,204
Reaction score
150
And this would be my point, the databook does have additional information. You just categorically reject as not fitting your mental narrative.
apparently it doesn't if your Tsunade example is standard databook fare

You know how to read but do you know how to comprehend? You asked me to point out a specific page, through analogy I was calling the idea itself completely and totally stupid
so the characters don't have specific pages? am I wrong? are there more chapters in the databook that I should read to fuurther my comprehension?

Stories can be further elucidated
yes they can, but the databook doesn't do so. it has no footnotes & there is no glossary of definitions
,
since we don't live in that universe there is much we don't know about.
Wrong. we know everything about the main timeline from the manga. there is nothing else, only filler/movies/sidestories/spin offs

Namely all that happens off panel.
Wrong. nothing happens off-panel except what the manga says happenned off panel. nothing in the databook tells us what happens off-panel.

Things happen of panel, we don't know what exactly. But necessarily things happened of panel. One of those things is Tsunade's use of elemental ninutsu. Which
Wrong. unless I missed it in the manga, the fictional character ''Senju Tsunade'' has never used an elemental jutsu

Kishi stated she had.
kishis statements are literally filler. they have no more worth than my own statements.
He does not own his literature, the publishers & magazine do. he just has royalties, so he can't change anything.
he also said hidan has more scythe jutsu, but thats not ''canon''
 
Last edited:

Tazzilla88

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Mar 16, 2012
Messages
2,505
Reaction score
302
apparently it doesn't if your Tsunade example is standard databook fare

so the characters don't have specific pages? am I wrong? are there more chapters in the databook that I should read to fuurther my comprehension?


yes they can, but the databook doesn't do so. it has no footnotes & there is no glossary of definitions
,

Wrong. we know everything about the main timeline from the manga. there is nothing else, only filler/movies/sidestories/spin offs


Wrong. nothing happens off-panel except what the manga says happenned off panel. nothing in the databook tells us what happens off-panel.


Wrong. unless I missed it in the manga, the fictional character ''Senju Tsunade'' has never used an elemental jutsu


kishis statements are literally filler. they have no more worth than my own statements.
He does not own his literature, he just has royalties, so he can't change anything.
he also said hidan has more scythe jutsu, but thats not ''canon''
Then my only response is that you don't know what it means to be an artist. If you think you're words equate to Kishi, and that the universe is solely defined by what you saw.
 

super yang

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Jun 2, 2014
Messages
4,204
Reaction score
150
Then my only response is that you don't know what it means to be an artist. If you think you're words equate to Kishi, and that the canonical universe is solely defined by what you saw read.
ok then.
well thanks for your time, and have a nice day.
 
Top