Tsunade and Saukra vs Deidara and Kakuzu

[BLAZE]

^^^wait i misread ur quote aboute Ohnoki so i will take it back

 

[RedRobin]

I'm not even going to entertain this.

In a head on fight she gets shitted on against those 3. That's the point.

The madara fight proves otherwise.

 

[RedRobin]

D

Katsuyu is more useful than Gaara's sand. It healed the entire shinobi army, put Tsunade back together and allowed the other kage to be healed in addition being able to be used as an offensive summon. And it was able to protect people from Chou Shinra Tensei.

Its honestly very funny when people talk about how versatile Gaara's sand is, which it is but then ignore how Katsuyu can literally change her state of matter and her own versatility.

 

[King Of Pop]

lol did i just read Tsunade is a top tier ninjutsu user? smh

 

[RedRobin]

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Lets not use the weakest version of Tsunade to prove a point about her abilities please.

 

[Tazzilla88]

lol did i just read Tsunade is a top tier ninjutsu user? smh

I didn't give Tsunade a 5 in ninjutsu... nor did I have her use Byakugou which is the pinnacle of chakra control and an S-rank ninjutsu

 

[ToshiZO]

I didn't give Tsunade a 5 in ninjutsu... nor did I have her use Byakugou which is the pinnacle of chakra control and an S-rank ninjutsu

Hidan: Hasn't shown a lick of ninjutsu. Databook rating = 5.

Kisame: Tons of moves in his arsenal. Databook rating = 4.5

I suggest you take the databook rating and throw it in the trashcan, she ain't no top tier ninjutsu user.

 

[RedRobin]

Hidan: Hasn't shown a lick of ninjutsu. Databook rating = 5.

Kisame: Tons of moves in his arsenal. Databook rating = 4.5

I suggest you take the databook rating and throw it in the trashcan, she ain't no top tier ninjutsu user.

Hidan's curse is a ninjustu according to the databook. By the time that databook came out Kisame's most exceptional ninjustu shown was water prison and colliding wave which only has a B.

 

[Tazzilla88]

Hidan: Hasn't shown a lick of ninjutsu. Databook rating = 5.

Kisame: Tons of moves in his arsenal. Databook rating = 4.5

I suggest you take the databook rating and throw it in the trashcan, she ain't no top tier ninjutsu user.

What was displayed =/= full arsenal which should be apparent as the 4th Databook was Kishi's last testament of the powers characters posess. And as of the most recent databook Tsunade has 4 elements and of the 3rd she maintained her 5 in ninjutsu and has shown mastery in every ninjutsu she's displayed.

You can't dismiss a part of the cannon because its inconvenient. Not unless there is a contradiction caused. Not seeing something does not equate to a contradiction. It was said that Hidan possessed several more tricks up his sleeve.

In terms of Tsunade's ninjutsu
She can summon Katsuyu in just about any state.
She maintains her transformation jutsu whilst utilizing other jutsus
She healed Shikamaru with a mere touch while Sakura struggled to do so
She developed and used two variations of an S-Rank technique
Uses a jutsu that stops an enemy dead in their tracks via short circuiting their nervous system.

And you don't believe that's evidence of top tier ninjutsu?
And at the time she became a Sannin she didn't have her Yin seal, which also means no byakugou and the battle area showed no signs of Tsunade's distinctive taijutsu. Yet Hanzo considered all three of them to be strong.

On her healing prowess alone she is considered kage level, she literally effortlessly healed Sasuke and Kakashi from the effects of Tsukyomi when no one in Konoha was capable of treating them at all.

 

[NarutoX28]

Hidan: Hasn't shown a lick of ninjutsu. Databook rating = 5.

Kisame: Tons of moves in his arsenal. Databook rating = 4.5

I suggest you take the databook rating and throw it in the trashcan, she ain't no top tier ninjutsu user.

Hidan's ninjutsu takes advantage of his own reactions which are the slowest and his attacks have the worst aim among the Akatsuki. Because of that handicap, he can't make use of his own ninjutsu at all. It requires a ritual and he has to force himself to contend with higher level fighters physically. With his lower reactions, he just can't make use of that jutsu at all. Once all preparations are met, it's actually a fairly haxed jutsu. It's the execution of the technique that makes it fall short.

As for Kisame, RedRobin addressed this. He hadn't even showcased his powerful techniques until after Databook 3 was released.

For Tsunade, she not only has 5 nature alterations that she can use, but she reached the very pinnacle of medical ninjutsu. Medical Ninjutsu alone requires an immense amount of chakra control, so reaching the pinnacle of medical ninjutsu and replicating only what the God of Shinobi can do means her Ninjutsu prowess is very exceptional. This isn't even including the fact that you're ignoring how Tsunade's Ninjutsu prowess is very helpful as a support unit, being able to heal almost every individual in Konoha through Katsuyu, being able to heal others in the midst of combat almost instantly, and also being capable of amplifying a ninja's technique through Byakugou. Tsunade is very proficient in ninjutsu. You shouldn't even look only from how it's applied from a combat perspective, but also how it's applied from a supporting perspective.

 

[ToshiZO]

Hidan's curse is a ninjustu according to the databook. By the time that databook came out Kisame's most exceptional ninjustu shown was water prison and colliding wave which only has a B.

What was displayed =/= full arsenal which should be apparent as the 4th Databook was Kishi's last testament of the powers characters posess. And as of the most recent databook Tsunade has 4 elements and of the 3rd she maintained her 5 in ninjutsu and has shown mastery in every ninjutsu she's displayed.

You can't dismiss a part of the cannon because its inconvenient. Not unless there is a contradiction caused. Not seeing something does not equate to a contradiction. It was said that Hidan possessed several more tricks up his sleeve.

In terms of Tsunade's ninjutsu
She can summon Katsuyu in just about any state.
She maintains her transformation jutsu whilst utilizing other jutsus
She healed Shikamaru with a mere touch while Sakura struggled to do so
She developed and used two variations of an S-Rank technique
Uses a jutsu that stops an enemy dead in their tracks via short circuiting their nervous system.

And you don't believe that's evidence of top tier ninjutsu?
And at the time she became a Sannin she didn't have her Yin seal, which also means no byakugou and the battle area showed no signs of Tsunade's distinctive taijutsu. Yet Hanzo considered all three of them to be strong.

On her healing prowess alone she is considered kage level, she literally effortlessly healed Sasuke and Kakashi from the effects of Tsukyomi when no one in Konoha was capable of treating them at all.

Hidan's ninjutsu takes advantage of his own reactions which are the slowest and his attacks have the worst aim among the Akatsuki. Because of that handicap, he can't make use of his own ninjutsu at all. It requires a ritual and he has to force himself to contend with higher level fighters physically. With his lower reactions, he just can't make use of that jutsu at all. Once all preparations are met, it's actually a fairly haxed jutsu. It's the execution of the technique that makes it fall short.

As for Kisame, RedRobin addressed this. He hadn't even showcased his powerful techniques until after Databook 3 was released.

For Tsunade, she not only has 5 nature alterations that she can use, but she reached the very pinnacle of medical ninjutsu. Medical Ninjutsu alone requires an immense amount of chakra control, so reaching the pinnacle of medical ninjutsu and replicating only what the God of Shinobi can do means her Ninjutsu prowess is very exceptional. This isn't even including the fact that you're ignoring how Tsunade's Ninjutsu prowess is very helpful as a support unit, being able to heal almost every individual in Konoha through Katsuyu, being able to heal others in the midst of combat almost instantly, and also being capable of amplifying a ninja's technique through Byakugou. Tsunade is very proficient in ninjutsu. You shouldn't even look only from how it's applied from a combat perspective, but also how it's applied from a supporting perspective.

Didn't get the point. Having a 5 in ninjutsu in no way makes you a top tier ninjutsu user.

And the time of the databook is irrelevant to this discussion since Tsunade had a 5 before all these new feats...

 

[NarutoX28]

Didn't get the point. Having a 5 in ninjutsu in no way makes you a top tier ninjutsu user.

And the time of the databook is irrelevant to this discussion since Tsunade had a 5 before all these new feats...

That highly depends on the user's execution.

Tsunade's execution of ninjutsu is exceptional. Hidan's isn't, so I fail to see the connection. As for Tsunade having all of these nature alterations, she likely had a majority of them considering she's a Sannin with likely one of the highest levels of Chakra Control out there and thus, should have at least 3 if not more nature alterations. The reason why I stated 3 or greater is because she already had 2 Nature Alterations when she was very Rusty.

 

[ToshiZO]

That highly depends on the user's execution.

Tsunade's execution of ninjutsu is exceptional. Hidan's isn't, so I fail to see the connection. As for Tsunade having all of these nature alterations, she likely had a majority of them considering she's a Sannin with likely one of the highest levels of Chakra Control out there and thus, should have at least 3 if not more nature alterations. The reason why I stated 3 or greater is because she already had 2 Nature Alterations when she was very Rusty.

This post is oozing of fanfic. A lot of assumptions made for a top tier ninjutsu user.

The execution point makes no sense to begin with. If his curse is a ninjutsu its of the highest quality, how he fights aside from that (his speed, reactions etc.) has absolutely nothing to do with the ninjutsu itself.

 

[King Of Pop]

I didn't give Tsunade a 5 in ninjutsu... nor did I have her use Byakugou which is the pinnacle of chakra control and an S-rank ninjutsu

Databook scores doesnt mean much when the character has displayed zilch in terms of ninjutsu. Gaara in the 3rd db has a 5 in ninjutsu if am not mistaken yet i dont see him utilize actual ninjutsu i mean we are talking about someone who literally jumped/ran to punch madaras katonand you are telling me she is a top tier ninjutsu user? joke if you ask me. run and punch, run and punch with medical ninjutsu, thats tsunade for you period

bold. so what? sakura also has byakugou, is she a top tier ninjutsu user now? pls. if you want to say top tier medical ninjutsu user then fine but overstating her feats in that one category in no way shape or form makes her a top tier ninjutsu user in general. otherwise we might as well be calling sakura a top tier ninjutsu user. face it, you are making assumptions with nothing concrete to go on

 

[RedRobin]

Databook scores doesnt mean much when the character has displayed zilch in terms of ninjutsu. Gaara in the 3rd db has a 5 in ninjutsu if am not mistaken yet i dont see him utilize actual ninjutsu i mean we are talking about someone who literally jumped/ran to punch madaras katonand you are telling me she is a top tier ninjutsu user? joke if you ask me. run and punch, run and punch with medical ninjutsu, thats tsunade for you period

bold. so what? sakura also has byakugou, is she a top tier ninjutsu user now? pls. if you want to say top tier medical ninjutsu user then fine but overstating her feats in that one category in no way shape or form makes her a top tier ninjutsu user in general. otherwise we might as well be calling sakura a top tier ninjutsu user. face it, you are making assumptions with nothing concrete to go on

Lol do you even realize what Byakugo is? Its two different techniques in one used at the same time. Regeneration is a top tier ability. Then add on the fact they they have automatic regeneration which is an even higher top tier ability.

The controlling of his sand is ninjustu. What is this base smoking, honestly, you cant be so un- knowledgeable on Naruto at this point.

 

[King Of Pop]

Lol do you even realize what Byakugo is? Its two different techniques in one used at the same time. Regeneration is a top tier ability. Then add on the fact they they have automatic regeneration which is an even higher top tier ability.

The controlling of his sand is ninjustu. What is this base smoking, honestly, you cant be so un- knowledgeable on Naruto at this point.

how does explaining byakugou and regenration change my point which is that sakura uses it so if we call tsunade top tier ninjutsu user then we do the same for sakura and that would be foolish. they are top tier in medical ninjutsu, nothing more

fair enough about gaara but doesnt change my point

 

[RedRobin]

how does explaining byakugou and regenration change my point which is that sakura uses it so if we call tsunade top tier ninjutsu user then we do the same for sakura and that would be foolish. they are top tier in medical ninjutsu, nothing more

fair enough about gaara but doesnt change my point

Sakura's ninjustu feats span across the SA. She was able use network healing and heal the entire SA. How that is not a top tier show of ninjustu makes me question your logic. Its not even a giant feat of medical ninjustu, its a giant feat of ninjustu.

Yes it does. Gaara rightfully got his 5 in ninjustu as did Tsunade.

 

[Dannie]

Tsunade gets titty ****ed

 

[NarutoX28]

This post is oozing of fanfic. A lot of assumptions made for a top tier ninjutsu user.

The execution point makes no sense to begin with. If his curse is a ninjutsu its of the highest quality, how he fights aside from that (his speed, reactions etc.) has absolutely nothing to do with the ninjutsu itself.

Except ninjutsu execution has a lot to do with being a top tier ninjutsu user. Hidan's curse is very haxed yet you agree that he doesn't qualify as a top tier ninjutsu user in spite of having a haxed technique. Ninjutsu execution has everything to do with why he's not a top tier ninjutsu user.

The only "fanfic" I made was assuming that DB3 Tsunade had at least 3 elements which is actually a very reasonable assumption.

 

[Tazzilla88]

Didn't get the point. Having a 5 in ninjutsu in no way makes you a top tier ninjutsu user.

And the time of the databook is irrelevant to this discussion since Tsunade had a 5 before all these new feats...

Actually this is actually just stupidity at this point. What is the databook? Is it Kishi's way of elaborating on that which is but not explicitly stated or displayed? Well yes, that's exactly what it seems to be. That may be why it explicates what justus do and provide a power level to them. Actually I wonder if that's why Kishi seems to include information that doesn't exist within the pages of the manga... such as enumerating which elements characters have or don't have. I sure wonder why the skills have a rating next to them between one and five Even the skills we haven't seen seem to have ratings next to them? I can't possibly seem to imagine why? I wonder if those ratings mean to state how proficient those characters are at the thing they are next to? Why would Kishi include that kind of information? Is he trying to to explicate tiers of abilities to allow us to understand his artistic vision and the portrayal of characters?

This post is oozing of fanfic. A lot of assumptions made for a top tier ninjutsu user.

The execution point makes no sense to begin with. If his curse is a ninjutsu its of the highest quality, how he fights aside from that (his speed, reactions etc.) has absolutely nothing to do with the ninjutsu itself.

Again this is idiocy, if Kishi says that Hidan's skill in Ninjutsu is that which warrants a 5 then the burden of proof is on those who wish to say that when he performs ninjutsu it is not masterfully performed. However, if it can't be disproved there is no contradiction and Kishi's rating remains valid. Not seeing him use ninjutsu (which we did see) and not seeing him use many jutsu still doesn't mean his doesn't have a mastery of the ninjutsu he possess. And as 5 is the highest rating, the top tier of all of the ratings, that means that he has a mastery of the ninjutsu that he uses. And that the ninjutsu is difficult enough that mastery of it gains him the highest tier of ranking in ninjutsu. None of this is complicated. Pretty basic stuff.

Databook scores doesnt mean much when the character has displayed zilch in terms of ninjutsu. Gaara in the 3rd db has a 5 in ninjutsu if am not mistaken yet i dont see him utilize actual ninjutsu i mean we are talking about someone who literally jumped/ran to punch madaras katonand you are telling me she is a top tier ninjutsu user? joke if you ask me. run and punch, run and punch with medical ninjutsu, thats tsunade for you period

bold. so what? sakura also has byakugou, is she a top tier ninjutsu user now? pls. if you want to say top tier medical ninjutsu user then fine but overstating her feats in that one category in no way shape or form makes her a top tier ninjutsu user in general. otherwise we might as well be calling sakura a top tier ninjutsu user. face it, you are making assumptions with nothing concrete to go on

Did you say that Gaara hasn't earned his 5 in ninjutsu? Literally every move we've ever seen Gaara use was ninjutsu. Thus there are two possibilities you have no idea what your talking about, or you think Gaara is incompetent as a ninja and kage.

Are you thick? "Databook Scores don't mean much when a character hasn't displayed has displayed zilch"? Actually it means everything. It means you have no room to comment, because there are no contradictions. Kishi has stated it as fact and thus it is so as there are no contradictions. You just don't like that it is so. You want it not to be so. But there's no conceivable reason why it isn't so. How else do you suppose you measure a character's ninjutsu ability when you haven't seen it? Are you going to assume they possess no ninjutsu and are incapable of shunshin jutsu and even bunshin jutsu, what about substitution jutsu are we to assume that those who you haven't seen use the most basic of ninjutsu are incapable of doing so? You assume that unless you see something, and you didn't see the vast majority of Tsunade or Hidan's arsenal, that you know what isn't in it when Kishimoto states otherwise.

So when you see some one use a top tier Katon jutsu almost exclusively are they a top tier ninjutsu user, probably as their skills in that ninjutsu is top tier. If a person uses top tier sand ninjutsu are they a top tier ninjutsu user? Yes, Gaara is. Likewise top tier medical ninjutsu, namely that which is the gold standard for chakra control certainly implies that their usage of other ninjutsu would be flawless if its of lesser difficulty. Medical ninjutsu is ninjutsu, it takes the most precise of chakra control. Tsunade developed, not just used, but created two S-rank techniques. One of which rivaled the skill portrayed by the God of Shinobi.

Luckily, no one asked you as you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Tsunade punched away the Katon because someone undeniably top tier in ninjutsu couldn't form a ninjutsu fast enough to counter. So you think she should have started trying to form a ninjutsu after Mei displayed that her ninjutsu wouldn't have been fast enough? Yeah that makes sense. The only response that possibly would have made sense would be a physical defense. Otherwise Gaara and Oonoki's two pronged defense could have been used again. However even the manga hints at Tsunade have strong ninjutsu skills. In fact what were Kabuto's words when we he got hit by Ranshinsho, yes, he described the power of being that of a living legend, y'know because the jutsu is of a high tier technique exceeding his own abilities, which were on par with Kakashi's at the time.