Legendary Saiyan
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Yeah at least no one tried to instigate with the "God doesn't exist" statement like every other time. Gets really old.
[Discussion] Religion
- Thread starter HashiraMadara
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Don't jinx it. Trolls could swoop in any time.
Well, there have been such statements, not that it actually derails the thread as the topic is wether one believes or not, therefore the statement would be completely appropriate.
Hold it right there.
Where is your source for the Bible getting corrupted in the 100 year frame? What right do you have to call st. Paul a moron? Constantine wasn't a king, he was an emperor and he didn't kill Christian sects, nor did he burn any Bibles. Hell, the Bible wasn't even known to exist at the time!
Sects have different Bibles from the "mainstream" line in a sense of canonizing books that aren't accepted as authentic/rejecting those that have been accepted as such. It's not different in a sense that someone took a typewriter and started mashing those buttons. ._.
The thread's been going a nice way so far so refrain from slurs or other people will start playing dirty too.
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Out of pure curiosity, what are those things?
Anyway, we do believe God didn't stop manifesting himself after the arrival of Jesus: We do believe He keeps showing himself in history, traditions and through saints and charismatic people.
What does it mean? We believe if we follow these sets of belief it's because they've been interpreted in the good way. It's not a study born yesterday, there are entire disciplines which entirely are focused on the interpretation of the Bible, aka exegesis and hermeneutics.
Made in Heaven
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I know what a fallen angel is, and it makes no sense, not when Angels are biologically incapable of defying God. Iblis was a high-ranking Djinn among the Angels.
Okay but I don't believe in the bible. 'Sides, even if I accepted this, Prophet Jesus, according to the Bible, NEVER claimed that a Prophet wouldn't come after him, right? So Prophet Muhammad coming after Prophet Jesus can still make sense.
Not to mention I could use these verses themselves in my favor :/
What makes you think it isn't? What is it about Prophet Muhammad that makes you deny his prophethood? Is it his message? His personality? His lifestyle?
And I believe it too, also, it's cool to hear"Prophet Jesus", I appreciate such a respect from people of another religion.
Anyway I'm disagreeing about Paul, he was the first apologist and the best of all times, he was converted by Jesus himself (we believe) after he persecuted Christians.
Read the Letters in the Bible, and you will find some first class teachings
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Mostly the concept of the trinity, and certain characteristics the Prophets and God himself are attributed with which don't seem saintly at all, like with Prophet Moses. Idk, I don't really wanna discuss it much, since I'd kinda have to start pointing out issues I have with the religion.
So why not through a Prophet?
I didn't necessarily mean it was corrupted within 100 years, just that it happened soon after Propeht Jesus' ascension to heaven.
Oh, right, he's a figurehead for you guys. Sorry then. U_U
So then who was the one who gathered like a bunch of Christian scholars and decided what would be the true Christinty among the several ones that were around at that time?
So what's the mainstream line? Is that one book?
It is, or you're denying every teaching from saints, fathers of the Church, theologians and so on. You guys follow the dogma of the infallibility of the Pope, I find it hard to believe it if God never made hear His voice anymore
Again, I ask what is your source? Where are the different documents? Where is the hidden knowledge?
Umm, yes a pretty important figure at that. ._.
What you're asking is who was responsible for forming the Christian canon, and that isn't work of just one man. The process was formed of intense debate and study over various ages which is why we had multiple things accepted as time went by. (The book of Revalation being one of them.)
What I call "mainstream" (I put the quotations for a reason) are the three main denominations (Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant) in general, while each one would be considered "mainstream" when compared to its further divisions.
I don't think we're talking about the same thing. I'm talking about the compatibilist stance in which God has revealed himself as all the figures of religions (Muhammad, Budha, etc.) with all religions being legitimate ways to God. A dangerous synchretism that has no place in the Christian faith.
I was a christian, currently agnostic. I have no problems with anyone's believe in a god or lack there of, so long as it doesn't interfere with the livelihood and well-being of others around them. I do believe being religious does carry some positives and advantages, like serving as a moral compass and giving people a purpose greater than themselves; along with disadvantages, like religious crusades, jihad, and religious laws that interfere with those outside of the belief system.
I can hear you about trinity, just please recognize we don't worship three God, but just one God who is at the same time Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It's one of the faith mysteries that I can't logical prove to you. About Moses, remember we can't judge him with the mentality of our time. It's not a detail, and anyway Jesus said some of the things Moses said have been said because of the hard heart of the Hebrews of his time. I'm reminding you that Jews at those times were prone to get pagan again (they once built a golden calf and started worshipping it) so their tendencies had to be thrown away, and Moses couldn't joke. I'm sure Prophet Muhammad would have approved as well.
Why not a prophet? There are many among us, even if they aren't famous and don't talk about religious reforms. They're called charismatics, and the capability of making some prophecies is one of the things God can decide to give you if you are in theosis.
And anyway, would you really teach God how to do?
Q1). Islam.
Q2). Nobody. I choose to be a Muslim.
Q3). Because unlike other religions, Islam does not have contradiction and specifically the Holy Quran, the book of God. The fact it contains revelations that modern science has discovered, being for two examples: corpse of Ramesses III and Big Bang which shockingly comes from a book recorded 1,400 years, is a undisputed testament that it is the word of God.
Islam, to me, is the way of life.
Q2). Nobody. I choose to be a Muslim.
Q3). Because unlike other religions, Islam does not have contradiction and specifically the Holy Quran, the book of God. The fact it contains revelations that modern science has discovered, being for two examples: corpse of Ramesses III and Big Bang which shockingly comes from a book recorded 1,400 years, is a undisputed testament that it is the word of God.
Islam, to me, is the way of life.
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I m an Ass
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Oke what makes me deny prophet Muhammad as real prophet is simple before answering this i just want to say part of my family/friends are muslim so i understand islam quite a lot and i have done some studies on it also.
What makes Muhammad a false prophet ?
-There is no prophecy of him in the scriptures:God always foreshadows
the coming of prophets sometimes even before they are born (if you can
give just 1 of Muhammad i will be a muslim)
-Muhammad delivered a revelation that didn’t come from God:which makes him not trustworthy and according to moses law such person must be put to death
-Muhammad never has done something to prove that he is a real prophet like a miracle
or such...
- Muhammad didn't want anything to do with that angel he encountered because he was freaked out he even thought he was possessed by an evil spirit and even tried to kill himself untill his wife persuade him he was a real prophet and he started to believe it himself (when someone encounters an angel from god the first thing they want to do is worship it even tho it's forbiden.(even muhammad has doubts about himself i won't follow such a person.
There are many more reasons but that will do
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Made in Heaven
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Yeah, I know Christianity is monotheism.I can hear you about trinity, just please recognize we don't worship three God, but just one God who is at the same time Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It's one of the faith mysteries that I can't logical prove to you. About Moses, remember we can't judge him with the mentality of our time. It's not a detail, and anyway Jesus said some of the things Moses said have been said because of the hard heart of the Hebrews of his time. I'm reminding you that Jews at those times were prone to get pagan again (they once built a golden calf and started worshipping it) so their tendencies had to be thrown away, and Moses couldn't joke. I'm sure Prophet Muhammad would have approved as well.
Why not a prophet? There are many among us, even if they aren't famous and don't talk about religious reforms. They're called charismatics, and the capability of making some prophecies is one of the things God can decide to give you if you are in theosis.
And anyway, would you really teach God how to do?
No, no, I know Prophet Moses needed to be harsh with his followers since most of them were bad (I believe in the Golden Calf story as well.) But, it's just other things, not necessarily his harshness.
Prophet Moses wasn't allowed to joke, or he just didn't joke around himself? About the comment of the Prophet approving Moses' lack of joking, I'm not really sure what you mean by that, but the Prophet himself did joke around with his loved ones, he wasn't made of stone after all.
No, not trying to teach God how to do anything, I'm just asking why don't Christians believe there can't be anymore Prophets after Prophet Jesus?
No, by "joke" I meant he couldn't take their paganism and indiscipline lightly. Just that. Well I don't know how playful was Jesus with his apostles, but there is a saint who lived in Italy that made laughter as one of his leitmotif. They called him "the saint clown", he's pretty famous, his name was Francis of Assisi.
About prophets, I said how it goes according to Christianity, plus, in the Revelation it's said that two prophets have to come before the end of the world
Saiyan Kammy
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Religion: Islam (Pakistani Muslim)
Why I think Islam > all other religions?
It's not the religion but the Muslim people that makes me believe Islam is the only true religion. For example, you can easily mistake this man for being a christian but he was a Muslim. I can use myself as another example but forget it.
Why I think Islam > all other religions?
It's not the religion but the Muslim people that makes me believe Islam is the only true religion. For example, you can easily mistake this man for being a christian but he was a Muslim. I can use myself as another example but forget it.
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No, it's actually mentioned numerous times and has been present throughout time. Some megachurch pastor didn't randomly come up with it like you think he did. Haha.
And he blessed him and said,
“Blessed be Abram by God Most High,
Possessor of heaven and earth;
and blessed be God Most High,
who has delivered your enemies into your hand!”
And Abram gave him a tenth of everything.
(Gen. 14:19–20)
Then Jacob made a vow, saying, “If God will be with me and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat and clothing to wear, so that I come again to my father’s house in peace, then the Lord shall be my God, and this stone, which I have set up for a pillar, shall be God’s house. And of all that you give me I will give a full tenth to you.”
(Gen. 28:20–22)
Every tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the trees, is the Lord’s; it is holy to the Lord. If a man wishes to redeem some of his tithe, he shall add a fifth to it. And every tithe of herds and flocks, every tenth animal of all that pass under the herdsman’s staff, shall be holy to the Lord. One shall not differentiate between good or bad, neither shall he make a substitute for it; and if he does substitute for it, then both it and the substitute shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.”
(Lev. 27:30–34)
To the Levites I have given every tithe in Israel for an inheritance, in return for their service that they do, their service in the tent of meeting
(Num. 18:21)
Moreover, you shall speak and say to the Levites, ‘When you take from the people of Israel the tithe that I have given you from them for your inheritance, then you shall present a contribution from it to the Lord, a tithe of the tithe.
(Num. 18:26)
But you shall seek the place that the Lord your God will choose out of all your tribes to put his name and make his habitation there. There you shall go, and there you shall bring your burnt offerings and your sacrifices, your tithes and the contribution that you present, your vow offerings, your freewill offerings, and the firstborn of your herd and of your flock.
(Deut. 12:5–6)
“You shall tithe all the yield of your seed that comes from the field year by year. And before the Lord your God, in the place that he will choose, to make his name dwell there, you shall eat the tithe of your grain, of your wine, and of your oil, and the firstborn of your herd and flock, that you may learn to fear the Lord your God always.”
(Deut. 14:22)
At the end of every three years you shall bring out all the tithe of your produce in the same year and lay it up within your towns. And the Levite, because he has no portion or inheritance with you, and the sojourner, the fatherless, and the widow, who are within your towns, shall come and eat and be filled, that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hands that you do.
(Deut. 14:28–29)
And he commanded the people who lived in Jerusalem to give the portion due to the priests and the Levites, that they might give themselves to the Law of the Lord. As soon as the command was spread abroad, the people of Israel gave in abundance the firstfruits of grain, wine, oil, honey, and of all the produce of the field. And they brought in abundantly the tithe of everything.
(2 Chron. 31:4–5)
We obligate ourselves to bring the firstfruits of our ground and the firstfruits of all fruit of every tree, year by year, to the house of the Lord; also to bring to the house of our God, to the priests who minister in the house of our God, the firstborn of our sons and of our cattle, as it is written in the Law, and the firstborn of our herds and of our flocks; and to bring the first of our dough, and our contributions, the fruit of every tree, the wine and the oil, to the priests, to the chambers of the house of our God; and to bring to the Levites the tithes from our ground, for it is the Levites who collect the tithes in all our towns where we labor.
(Neh. 10:35–37)
Honor the Lord with your wealth and with the firstfruits of all your produce; then your barns will be filled with plenty, and your vats will be bursting with wine.
(Prov. 3:9–10)
Come to Bethel, and transgress; to Gilgal, and multiply transgression; bring your sacrifices every morning, your tithes every three days; offer a sacrifice of thanksgiving of that which is leavened, and proclaim freewill offerings, publish them; for so you love to do, O people of Israel!” declares the Lord God.
(Amos 4:4–5)
Will man rob God? Yet you are robbing me. But you say, ‘How have we robbed you?’ In your tithes and contributions. You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing me, the whole nation of you.
(Mal. 3:8–9)
Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. And thereby put me to the test, says the Lord of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need. I will rebuke the devourer for you, so that it will not destroy the fruits of your soil, and your vine in the field shall not fail to bear, says the Lord of hosts. Then all nations will call you blessed, for you will be a land of delight, says the Lord of hosts.
(Mal. 3:10–12)
“Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.
“Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.”
(Matt. 6:1–4)
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.
(Matt. 23:23)
And he sat down opposite the treasury and watched the people putting money into the offering box. Many rich people put in large sums. And a poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which make a penny. And he called his disciples to him and said to them, “Truly, I say to you, this poor widow has put in more than all those who are contributing to the offering box. For they all contributed out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty has put in everything she had, all she had to live on.”
(Mark 12:41–44)
“But woe to you Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue and every herb, and neglect justice and the love of God. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others”
(Luke 11:42)
"He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”
(Luke 18:9–14)
For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, and to him Abraham apportioned a tenth part of everything. He is first, by translation of his name, king of righteousness, and then he is also king of Salem, that is, king of peace.
(Heb. 7:1–2)
I could post many more examples on what the Bible says about tithing, but I think you get the point. If you even bothered to read or at least skim through all of those, or at least a few of those. ~
Regardless, if you look at this verse:
"He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”
(Luke 18:9–14)
^Where a man (a Pharisee) who tithes and does all the other Christian things he's supposed to do is mentioned to not be justified when he puts down another person who does not (tax collector)...
and this one:
And he sat down opposite the treasury and watched the people putting money into the offering box. Many rich people put in large sums. And a poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which make a penny. And he called his disciples to him and said to them, “Truly, I say to you, this poor widow has put in more than all those who are contributing to the offering box. For they all contributed out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty has put in everything she had, all she had to live on.”
(Mark 12:41–44)
^Where a woman who is poor and donates a few pennies (all that she had) is praised more than rich people donating much wealth (though, they still have much more)...
and finally this one:
“Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.”
(Matt. 6:1–4)
^Where it states you shouldn't brag about tithes and giving in general...
You can realize that tithing is in and of itself meant to be a selfless action. People should try their best to give if they can, but if they can't- it should not be held against them. They should not brag about giving, either.
It also matters about what's in the heart. If a person doesn't feel comfortable giving a small ten percent donation of their income... to a church they regularly attend, well that's their decision. I don't know why they'd go to church services and not want to tithe if they could, though. Hopefully, they realize the church still needs to run. But hopefully, they have enough sense to not go to a monetarily corrupt church.
Would you care to give the name of the church you attended? I wonder how they keep their members. Either way, if there was apparently enough financial exploitation where your pastor could purchase a new car in a month, they blocked you from entering, and members didn't want you to sit next to them... it probably was not worth going to.
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Considering the scriptures (I believe) are tainted, him not being in them or not doesn't prove much.
Never the less, there are in fact mentions/hints of Prophet Muhammad in the Bible. Note however, that I do not necessarily agree or disagree with this, and am just presenting it to you due to you requesting it.
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How do you come to this conclusion?
Wrong. He split the moon in two and has made water gush from a small amount in his hand.
However, all that was in the past, things that we can't observe. The true miracle of Prophet Muhammad was the Quran, which is packed with linguistic and scientific miracles. That is his miracle.
This is true (aside from him wanting to kill himself and his wife convincing of him being a Prophet). The Prophet was a common man before being given Prophethood, and as such, he reacted towards seeing Angel Gabriel as any man would, he was terrified because he saw Angel Gabriel in his true form. However, soon after, when Angel Gabriel visited him again and he understood what was going on, he accepted his duty and went on to carry it out.
Also, the notion of Prophets wanting to worship Angel Gabriel upon seeming them is not an Islamic belief, as Prophets are considered perfect role models and don't worship anyone except God, even before they become prophets.
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