Obito, Itachi, Shisui?

[Your Creepy Stalker]

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Is that how we're playing it then?

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There are probably incredibly well reasoned arguments in this thread. This is not one of them.

 

[LoZelda101]

Is that how we're playing it then?

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There are probably incredibly well reasoned arguments in this thread. This is not one of them.

Thinking genjutsu can get outpaced by kamui is not a reason. Sorry

 

[~Ethereal~]

I will go for whatever Hitachi uses, even if it's a broom brush or a hammer.

 

[123fire]

Kamui GG

 

[Your Creepy Stalker]

Thinking genjutsu can get outpaced by kamui is not a reason. Sorry

However, thinking that said genjutsu has a ten year cooldown and therefore NO combat application whatsoever, is a reason.

 

[synkross]

u forgot to mention Obito's left eye ability, he would snipe Shisui's head before he even thinks about using his MS.

Kamui(both left and right) combined is by far the most haxed thing in naruto.

 

[enditallsin]

KA is the only one up their that hasn't been countered or broken. So we'll just go with that one.

 

[enditallsin]

u forgot to mention Obito's left eye ability, he would snipe Shisui's head before he even thinks about using his MS.

Kamui(both left and right) combined is by far the most haxed thing in naruto.

Agreed

 

[gerizzyYMcrew]

Canon = Confirmed.

You cannot just ascribe feats to characters that have not been performed by them.

So, no matter what you say, it will never be canon that Shisui can use Kotoamatsukami continuously.

However, these things are canon:

Kamui can still be used continuously even with one eye, as long as you have the chakra reserves, so that's a bad example. The properties of Kamui are not the properties of Kotoamatsukami.

In any case, the addition of Hashirama's cells increase the power of dojutsu more than just being an Uchiha does (Izanagi is a prime example of this; Izanagi normally does not last as long as one minute per activation), so it's extremely unlikely that Shisui could use Kotoamatsukami more efficiently than Danzo could.

With both eyes, Kamui was shown to only increase the speed of Kamui's activation by like, 100%. Definitely not by roughly 350,000% (what it would take to move Kotoamatsukami from 10 years to 1 day).

With both eyes, no MS has been shown to be useable with little to no side effects. Itachi's eyes bleed when he uses Amaterasu. So does Sasuke's prior to attaining EMS. Tsukuyomi exhausts Itachi if he overuses it. Obito has Hashirama's cells. Madara has EMS. Not comparable.

Basically, Shisui being able to do the things you're saying he might be able to do:

• Have never been confirmed in the manga.
• Are directly contradicted by existing evidence on how the Mangekyo Sharingan works for literally everyone else.
• Are directly contradicted by the plain fact that Hashirama's cells enhance the abilities of both unevolved and Mangekyo Sharingan alike beyond what Uchiha are capable of on their own, as demonstrated by both Danzo's Izanagi/Kotoamatsukami and Obito's ability to use Kamui continuously with no side-effects (whereas Itachi and Sasuke cannot use their MS techs without suffering visible drawbacks and Kakashi's suffers from heavy chakra drain and blurred vision).

it's literally impossible for shisui uchiha to have 10 yr cooldowns on his own dojutsu...it ****s up the timeline

 

[gerizzyYMcrew]

Bruh the manga explained it very clearly. Yes Danzo had an eye before he got Shisuis right eye and he also used Izanagi to counter his KA. This suggests that the Izanagi is stronger than KA because it can trick the user in believing that he/she is in control of the victim that has Izanagi. The real fodder is Shisui, and this is based on the events that occured in the manga.

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He tried to use KA on Danzo but failed. The manga explains it and the anime shows the exact details of the fight. How much more do you want?



He still used Kamui better than Obito who is an Uchiha though. He maximizes his ability despite his stamina deficiency.

except shisui never used kotoamatsukami on danzo

 

[Claymantan]

it's literally impossible for shisui uchiha to have 10 yr cooldowns on his own dojutsu...it ****s up the timeline

But you said this

except shisui never used kotoamatsukami on danzo

And when Itachi got Shisui's eye, 10 years had passed since Shisui awakened it (when Itachi was 4; he met Itachi at the age of 5 and Shisui already has the MS), so it doesn't **** up the timeline anyway. This is a novel fact though. But in the manga, we never find out when Shisui got the MS, so you can't make any claims about the timeline.

Everyone trying to embellish Shisui's abilities has no manga scans to back it up or is forgetting about other things in the manga.

 

[gerizzyYMcrew]

But you said this



And when Itachi got Shisui's eye, 10 years had passed since Shisui awakened it (when Itachi was 4; he met Itachi at the age of 5 and Shisui already has the MS), so it doesn't **** up the timeline anyway

Everyone trying to embellish Shisui's abilities has no manga scans to back it up or is forgetting about other things in the manga.

guy...if shisui had 10 yr cooldowns on his own dojutsu then how the hell is he famous for it?...ninja from other villages knew that shisui possessed the strongest genjutsu...****ing ao described it's effects perfectly.

look if shisui had 10 yr cooldowns on koto then how did he attempt to use it on the uchiha?...how the hell did he have koto ACTIVE in the flashback of itachi showing shisui with 1 eye?...the timeline gets ****ed up...there is LITERALLY no reason shisui uchiha has 10 yr cooldowns.

also show me the scan of shisui awakening his mangekyo sharingan when itachi was 5

 

[Claymantan]

guy...if shisui had 10 yr cooldowns on his own dojutsu then how the hell is he famous for it?...ninja from other villages knew that shisui possessed the strongest genjutsu...****ing ao described it's effects perfectly.

look if shisui had 10 yr cooldowns on koto then how did he attempt to use it on the uchiha?...how the hell did he have koto ACTIVE in the flashback of itachi showing shisui with 1 eye?...the timeline gets ****ed up...there is LITERALLY no reason shisui uchiha has 10 yr cooldowns.

also show me the scan of shisui awakening his mangekyo sharingan when itachi was 5

A) You don't have a scan of Shisui using his MS within ten years of him attempting to use it on Danzo. So you have no actual evidence to say Shisui can use Kotoamatsukami more than twice every ten years (once with each eye).
B) All he had to do was use it once for it to be famous, since it's an insane ability, and these shinobi start being shinobi from a young age. If he could use it very often, I'm sure he would have been using it to prevent hostilities between the Uchiha and Senju from rising to the point they were at the time he was 17/18 or however old he was before he died. Since we never see when he attained MS, he could easily have used it once or twice ten years before the time of the Uchiha Clan Massacre.
C) We don't know if Itachi ever used Kotoamatsukami after Shisui gave him his eye until Itachi used it on himself.
D) Itachi definitely did not try to use Shisui's Kotoamatsukami to stop the massacre.
E) Where on earth did the ten-year line come from, if it wasn't ever true? Ten years either didn't pass, or had barely passed between the time Itachi received Kotoamatsukami and used it (Sasuke was around eight years old, and by the time Itachi uses it on himself, Sasuke is seventeen). It couldn't have come from Danzo's experience, because Danzo started putting Hashirama's cells into himself to reduce the cooldown to once a day. So the ten years line has to come from somewhere, and since Shisui is the only one who has ever been shown to be able to use Kotoamatsukami more than once aside from Danzo, it can only have ever come from him.

In conclusion: No, it doesn't **** up the timeline, unless you make up events that were never shown in the manga, novel, or anime.

 

[gerizzyYMcrew]

A) You don't have a scan of Shisui using his MS within ten years of him attempting to use it on Danzo. So you have no actual evidence to say Shisui can use Kotoamatsukami more than twice every ten years (once with each eye).

absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence...this is an informal fallacy.

also shisui had his left eye stolen and his right eye right after the former was stolen...there was literally no time for shisui to be famous for using kotoamatsukami ONCE...AND ON WHOM???

are you aware that nobody in the series of naruto is famous for using a famous jutsu once?...except hagoromo who created an everlasting ****ing MOON.

B) All he had to do was use it once for it to be famous, since it's an insane ability, and these shinobi start being shinobi from a young age. If he could use it very often, I'm sure he would have been using it to prevent hostilities between the Uchiha and Senju from rising to the point they were at the time he was 17/18 or however old he was before he died. Since we never see when he attained MS, he could easily have used it once or twice ten years before the time of the Uchiha Clan Massacre.

how much older do you think shisui was to itachi?...if shisui uchiha had 10 yr cooldowns on his own dojutsu then when the hell did he awaken the mangekyo sharingan?...at age 6?...lolololololol

see how your logic does not add up?...you even contradicted yourself using "once or twice" while relying on worthless fallacies...there was no conflict between uchiha and senju during shisui's lifetime...do you not know the ****ing timeline?

C) We don't know if Itachi ever used Kotoamatsukami after Shisui gave him his eye until Itachi used it on himself.

therefore negating the perpetuation of shisui having 10 yr cooldowns on his own eye...the massacre occured when sasuke was age 7 and it was only 8 and 1/2 years into danzo using koto on mifune.

D) Itachi definitely did not try to use Shisui's Kotoamatsukami to stop the massacre.

nope he did not...SHISUI trie to use his own eye to stop the massacre as kishimoto wrote here:

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^^^ therefore negating the possibility of shisui having 10 yr cooldowns on his own damn eyes.

E) Where on earth did the ten-year line come from, if it wasn't ever true? Ten years either didn't pass, or had barely passed between the time Itachi received Kotoamatsukami and used it (Sasuke was around eight years old, and by the time Itachi uses it on himself, Sasuke is seventeen). It couldn't have come from Danzo's experience, because Danzo started putting Hashirama's cells into himself to reduce the cooldown to once a day. So the ten years line has to come from somewhere, and since Shisui is the only one who has ever been shown to use Kotoamatsukami more than once, it can only have ever come from him.

you just admitted that shisui did not have 10 yr cooldowns on his own eyeballs...thank you very much for connecting the dots.

In conclusion: No, it doesn't **** up the timeline, unless you make up events that were never shown in the manga, novel, or anime.

ooohhhh....I guess you never read the manga then

 

[Claymantan]

absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence...this is an informal fallacy.

The absence of evidence does not equal truth. I am saying in order for your claim to be true, you need to provide evidence that it is true. You cannot say "Shisui has a lesser cooldown for Kotoamatsukami than everyone else" and expect it to be true unless you can show confirming evidence that it is true. Besides, I've been providing evidence this whole time that he cannot use it more than twice (once for each eye) over ten years. You have been unable to show otherwise.

And anyway, my statement is nowhere near a fallacy. Here's what I said:

A) You don't have a scan of Shisui using his MS within ten years of him attempting to use it on Danzo.

True statement.

So you have no actual evidence to say Shisui can use Kotoamatsukami more than twice every ten years (once with each eye).

True statement. You have no scan, therefore you have no evidence.

There is no fallacy, because this is not my only point to say that you cannot assume that it is true that Shisui's individual eyes can use Kotoamatsukami more than once every ten years . The only thing I was saying in that one point was that you have no scans, and therefore no evidence.

how much older do you think shisui was to itachi?...if shisui uchiha had 10 yr cooldowns on his own dojutsu then when the hell did he awaken the mangekyo sharingan?...at age 6?...lolololololol

Yeah, actually. The novel makes this claim (but I don't know the exact circumstances). Also, it would have been closer to around age 8 (isn't he like two or three years older than Itachi?). Anyway, what, you think he awakened it at age 16 and then became immediately famous for it? The fact remains that the manga does not show us when Shisui achieved the MS, so you cannot make claims about when he received it, and you cannot claim that he can use it more often than ten years unless you show a direct contradiction in the manga, which you have not, or unless you show him actually using it more than once with the same eye within a ten-year time frame.

Finally, the awakening of the Mangekyo Sharingan only requires a powerful emotional stimuli, usually trauma. How that trauma happens doesn't matter. Sasuke awakened his simply from finding out the truth about his brother. Not from battle itself.

see how your logic does not add up?...you even contradicted yourself using "once or twice" while relying on worthless fallacies...there was no conflict between uchiha and senju during shisui's lifetime...do you not know the ****ing timeline?

Shisui would have been going on missions regardless of whether or not a conflict that ended a generation and a half ago was still going on. Shisui was also a ninja close to the end of the Third Shinobi World War; Itachi saw the aftermath of it. I said once or twice because he could have used both Kotoamatsukamis (one for each eye) very close in time to each other. Itachi at the age of 7 was already a fully-fledged ninja, and at age 8 was receiving very important missions.

therefore negating the perpetuation of shisui having 10 yr cooldowns on his own eye...the massacre occured when sasuke was age 7 and it was only 8 and 1/2 years into danzo using koto on mifune.

Danzo's Hashirama cells allow him to use Kotoamatsukami once a day. So that's irrelevant.

The massacre occurred when Sasuke was 7. By the time Itachi uses Kotoamatsukami, Sasuke is 17 (I wasn't sure of this before, but I checked; he's 16 at the beginning of P2 and 17 by the time War Arc comes around. Ten years.)

nope he did not...SHISUI trie to use his own eye to stop the massacre as kishimoto wrote here:

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Kotoamatsukami has a start-up time. I posted evidence of such earlier in this thread, but here it is again, since you didn't read the thread:

It has a perceivable charge up time. People like Nagato can sense it. You can't escape it, but you can prevent it if you're fast enough, in theory.

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. Obito should be able to sense it too, I think.

So I guess you could Kamui someone who's about to use Kotoamatsukami? XD

Back to you attempting to misrepresent my claims:

^^^ therefore negating the possibility of shisui having 10 yr cooldowns on his own damn eyes.

Debunked.

you just admitted that shisui did not have 10 yr cooldowns on his own eyeballs...thank you very much for connecting the dots.

No I didn't.

You don't seem to understand what I mean. He can probably use Kotoamatsukami once with each eye (same as Izanagi only makes the eye that casts Izanagi go blind), but the cooldown for each eye cannot be assumed to be less than ten years. So over a ten-year timespan, we can assume that if Shisui casts Kotoamatsukami, which we know only needs one eye to cast, then that one eye cannot use Kotoamatsukami again until ten years have passed.

Also, Shisui did not successfully cast Kotoamatsukami on Danzo. This is obvious, since Danzo does not act in a way that indicates that Kotoamatsukami was successful (he still kills the clan, and the clan is still going to attempt the coup d'etat).

So the timeline isn't screwed up.

 

[gerizzyYMcrew]

The absence of evidence does not equal truth. I am saying in order for your claim to be true, you need to provide evidence that it is true. You cannot say "Shisui has a lesser cooldown for Kotoamatsukami than everyone else" and expect it to be true unless you can show confirming evidence that it is true. Besides, I've been providing evidence this whole time that he cannot use it more than twice (once for each eye) over ten years. You have been unable to show otherwise.

I'm not saying anything...in fact I was typing...and I implied that it is impossible for shisui to have 10 yr cooldowns on his own eyes when the timeline does not add up...for example it is physically impossible to use kotoamatsukami on the uchiha if you have 10 yr cooldowns between each usage...there is no debating this...either you are in denial or kishimoto is shitty at math...pick one.

I don't need scans from the manga pointing out the obvious...I can easily ask YOU to provide me with a scan of shisui uchiha admitting that his eye has 10 yr cooldowns...but unlike you I am smart enough to know that absence of evidence =/= evidence of absence.

And anyway, my statement is nowhere near a fallacy. Here's what I said:
True statement.

show me a scan of shisui admitting that his usage of kotoamatsukami is limited to once per 10 yrs...see how stupid that sounds?

True statement. You have no scan, therefore you have no evidence.

why do I need a scan of something that kishimoto never implied?...shisui never stated that he had 10 yr cooldowns...therefore shisui did not have 10 yr cooldowns on his eye...because absence of evidence =/= evidence of absence RIGHT????...lmaooo

There is no fallacy, because this is not my only point to say that you cannot assume that it is true that Shisui's individual eyes can use Kotoamatsukami more than once every ten years . The only thing I was saying in that one point was that you have no scans, and therefore no evidence.

ummm...there is a fallacy...YES I CAN ****ing assume that shisui uchiha can use his own eyeballs once per 10 yrs because:

1. he was famous for his usage of kotoamatsukami...no jutsu is ever famous for a 1 time usage...and who the hell was in the vicinity to boserve kotoamatsukami AND REPORT IT'S EFFECTS ACROSS THE WORLD???...DO YOU KNOW WHAT KOTO DOES???

2. danzo stole his right eye...and he gave itachi his left eye...therefore making it impossible for shisui to achieve fame for his usage of koto (ESPECIALLY IF HE WAS DEAD...and ESPECIALLY IF HE HAD 10 YR COOLDOWNS)

Yeah, actually. The novel makes this claim (but I don't know the exact circumstances). Also, it would have been closer to around age 8 (isn't he like two or three years older than Itachi?). Anyway, what, you think he awakened it at age 16 and then became immediately famous for it? The fact remains that the manga does not show us when Shisui achieved the MS, so you cannot make claims about when he received it, and you cannot claim that he can use it more often than ten years unless you show a direct contradiction in the manga, which you have not, or unless you show him actually using it more than once with the same eye within a ten-year time frame.

which negates everything you just typed...also when did shisui awaken his mangekyo?...at age 5?...lolololololol

Finally, the awakening of the Mangekyo Sharingan only requires a powerful emotional stimuli, usually trauma. How that trauma happens doesn't matter. Sasuke awakened his simply from finding out the truth about his brother. Not from battle itself.

what trauma did shisui uchiha experience at age 5 that made him awaken the mangekyo?...you have to witness the loss of someone you consider your best friend...who the hell was that to shisui?...also if shisui already had the mangekyo at age 5/6 then WHY DID HE NOT USE IT DURING THE ANBU ATTACK???

also thanks for admitting that shisui did NOT have 10 yr cooldowns seeing as how he awakened the mangekyo at age 5/6 and was famous for it's usage...lololololol...was shisui even known outside of his own clan as a genin?...lolololololol

ALSO thanks for admitting that shisui did not have 10 yr cooldowns on his own freaking eyeballs since his usage of generic genjutsu pales in comparison to more relevant characters...therefore taking the statement from killer b in chapter 550 and applaying it to kotoamatsumaki...there is no genjutsu stronger than that (outside of infinite tsukuyomi which nobody knew about)

Shisui would have been going on missions regardless of whether or not a conflict that ended a generation and a half ago was still going on. Shisui was also a ninja close to the end of the Third Shinobi World War; Itachi saw the aftermath of it. I said once or twice because he could have used both Kotoamatsukamis (one for each eye) very close in time to each other. Itachi at the age of 7 was already a fully-fledged ninja, and at age 8 was receiving very important missions.

itachi at age 7 was not known outside his own ****ing village...bullshit on the fact that people outside shisui's own village knew deeply about the effects of kotoamatsukami dispite 10 yr ****ing skips on it's usage...also nice job of admitting that shisui did not have 10 yr gaps on kotoamatsukami...lololololol

Danzo's Hashirama cells allow him to use Kotoamatsukami once a day. So that's irrelevant.

funny how shisui's eye is apparently the own dojutsu that needed hashirama's cells to enclose TEN YEAR ****ING GAPS...I bet itachi could use tsukuyomi more than once per 10 ****ing years am I right?...

The massacre occurred when Sasuke was 7. By the time Itachi uses Kotoamatsukami, Sasuke is 17 (I wasn't sure of this before, but I checked; he's 16 at the beginning of P2 and 17 by the time War Arc comes around. Ten years.)

ok

Kotoamatsukami has a start-up time. I posted evidence of such earlier in this thread, but here it is again, since you didn't read the thread:

@ bold fanfiction...also you just linked me a scan of nagato sensing itachi using his own dojutsu...not kotomamatsumaki...nice job of taking manga scans out of context...lolololololol

Back to you attempting to misrepresent my claims:

your failing at that

Debunked.

the thread missed it

No I didn't.

oh yea?

You don't seem to understand what I mean. He can probably use Kotoamatsukami once with each eye (same as Izanagi only makes the eye that casts Izanagi go blind), but the cooldown for each eye cannot be assumed to be less than ten years. So over a ten-year timespan, we can assume that if Shisui casts Kotoamatsukami, which we know only needs one eye to cast, then that one eye cannot use Kotoamatsukami again until ten years have passed.

how the hell could shisui even know he had kotoamatsukami if he had 10 yr cooldowns?...

1. shisui awakens the mangekyo.

2. shisui uses kotoamatsukami and uses it. (how he gets famous for it I have no ****ing clue...who did he use it on and due to the effects of kotoamatsukami how did the jutsu's power GET OUT FOR FAME???????????

3. shisui tries to use kotoamatsukami AGAIN NOT EVEN 10 YEARS PRIOR TO THE UCHIHA MASSACRE...therefore negating he had a 10 yr cooldown...lolololololol

4. danzo and itachi takes both his eyes... nice logic bird brain

Also, Shisui did not successfully cast Kotoamatsukami on Danzo. This is obvious, since Danzo does not act in a way that indicates that Kotoamatsukami was successful (he still kills the clan, and the clan is still going to attempt the coup d'etat).

So the timeline isn't screwed up.

^^^ nice job of proving me right once again...also you need to learn how to read...I stated that if shisui had 10 yr cooldowns then how can he know he has kotoamatsukami but try to use it on the uchiha DISPITE KNOWING HE HAS 10 YR COOLDOWNS????

1. shisui awakens the mangekyo and uses kotoamatsukami therefore realizing he has that power and starts the 10 yr cooldown.

2. SHISUI TRIES TO USE KOTOAMATSUMAKI ON THE UCHIHA...

also HOW CAN SHISUI USE KOTOAMATSUKAMI ON THE ENTIRE UCHIHA IF HE HAS 10 YR COOLDOWNS?????????????????????

 

[Claymantan]

@ bold fanfiction...also you just linked me a scan of nagato sensing itachi using his own dojutsu...not kotomamatsumaki...nice job of taking manga scans out of context...lolololololol

It's Kotoamatsukami. Nagato thought it was Amaterasu because he didn't know about Kotoamatsukami. Read the scans. The crow comes out, Kotoamatsukami is cast on Itachi, he's freed from Edo Tensei's control, and then he actually uses Amaterasu against Nagato. He would not have been able to do that if he had not casted Kotoamatsukami on himself, which it's blatantly shown that he does, and this is what Nagato senses.

The rest of this:

I'm not saying anything...in fact I was typing...and I implied that it is impossible for shisui to have 10 yr cooldowns on his own eyes when the timeline does not add up...for example it is physically impossible to use kotoamatsukami on the uchiha if you have 10 yr cooldowns between each usage...there is no debating this...either you are in denial or kishimoto is shitty at math...pick one.

I don't need scans from the manga pointing out the obvious...I can easily ask YOU to provide me with a scan of shisui uchiha admitting that his eye has 10 yr cooldowns...but unlike you I am smart enough to know that absence of evidence =/= evidence of absence.

Two eyes.

Two Kotoamatsukamis.

All you have to do is have used it only once before trying to use Kotoamatsukami.

He never used it at all during the entire time he had it (he never used it on Danzo), and he had at least one cast even if he had used Kotoamatsukami once in the past ten years, because only one eye is needed to cast Kotoamatsukami.

Since there is no scan of him using Kotoamatsukami even once, never mind twice, within the past ten years prior to attempting to use it on either Fugaku or Danzo, you cannot say that Shisui can use it more than twice in ten years (once for each eye).

show me a scan of shisui admitting that his usage of kotoamatsukami is limited to once per 10 yrs...see how stupid that sounds?

I've already presented plenty of evidence supporting that he cannot. You have provided zero evidence that he can, and all your "evidence" is based on misrepresenting the manga, or the things I said.

why do I need a scan of something that kishimoto never implied?...shisui never stated that he had 10 yr cooldowns...therefore shisui did not have 10 yr cooldowns on his eye...because absence of evidence =/= evidence of absence RIGHT????...lmaooo

No, because it's stated in the manga that Kotoamatsukami has ten year cooldowns, and the only way that this was averted was with Hashirama's cells. Kamui doesn't behave differently depending on who is using it except that it drains more chakra, so why would Kotoamatsukami?

ummm...there is a fallacy...YES I CAN ****ing assume that shisui uchiha can use his own eyeballs once per 10 yrs because:

1. he was famous for his usage of kotoamatsukami...no jutsu is ever famous for a 1 time usage...and who the hell was in the vicinity to boserve kotoamatsukami AND REPORT IT'S EFFECTS ACROSS THE WORLD???...DO YOU KNOW WHAT KOTO DOES???

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Can you show me the scan where it says everyone knew about Kotoamatsukami? It wouldn't have taken much for ANBU/Root/Danzo to know about it, and by extension Hiruzen. Shisui himself told Itachi about it.

2. danzo stole his right eye...and he gave itachi his left eye...therefore making it impossible for shisui to achieve fame for his usage of koto (ESPECIALLY IF HE WAS DEAD...and ESPECIALLY IF HE HAD 10 YR COOLDOWNS)

He achieved fame for his genjutsu prowess. I don't know if he achieved fame specifically for Kotoamatsukami, but if you show me the scan, I'll change my mind.

Ao only talks about

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As a hunter-nin who's pretty old, he'd have probably learned about Kotoamatsukami in the same way that Danzo and Hiruzen had.

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But that doesn't mean he'd ever witnessed Kotoamatsukami himself.

No one else really says anything indicating that they even knew what Kotoamatsukami was.

which negates everything you just typed...also when did shisui awaken his mangekyo?...at age 5?...lolololololol

We went over this. Either yes, he awakened it around ages 5-7, or he only ever used it with one eye, and so still had a cast available for when he wanted to use it prior to the Uchiha Massacre.

what trauma did shisui uchiha experience at age 5 that made him awaken the mangekyo?...you have to witness the loss of someone you consider your best friend...who the hell was that to shisui?...also if shisui already had the mangekyo at age 5/6 then WHY DID HE NOT USE IT DURING THE ANBU ATTACK???

No you don't. Sasuke didn't awaken the MS until after hearing about Itachi's sacrifice. But even if you did need to lose a best friend, Shisui has the Mangekyo Sharingan, even though we never saw him lose anything, so what's your point? He had it either way. Clearly he experienced something, at some point. He could have experienced it at any time.

also thanks for admitting that shisui did NOT have 10 yr cooldowns seeing as how he awakened the mangekyo at age 5/6 and was famous for it's usage...lololololol...was shisui even known outside of his own clan as a genin?...lolololololol

Again, show me the scan that Kotoamatsukami was famous outside of ANBU, Itachi, and Ao. And Ao doesn't speak of it as a famous technique, just something he knew about.

Aside from that, I never admitted this.

ALSO thanks for admitting that shisui did not have 10 yr cooldowns on his own freaking eyeballs since his usage of generic genjutsu pales in comparison to more relevant characters...therefore taking the statement from killer b in chapter 550 and applaying it to kotoamatsumaki...there is no genjutsu stronger than that (outside of infinite tsukuyomi which nobody knew about)

Killer Bee only talked about genjutsu prowess. He never talked about Kotoamatsukami. Only Itachi described Kotoamatsukami. I don't really know what you're saying here otherwise, though. His genjutsu pales in comparison to more relevant characters? Who are you talking about, and why is that relevant?

itachi at age 7 was not known outside his own ****ing village...bullshit on the fact that people outside shisui's own village knew deeply about the effects of kotoamatsukami dispite 10 yr ****ing skips on it's usage...also nice job of admitting that shisui did not have 10 yr gaps on kotoamatsukami...lololololol

Again, only Ao ever says anything about it outside of the village. No one else indicates they know what Ao's talking about, because he explains it to them. Mifune looks confused. Killer Bee only talks about Shisui being famous for his genjutsu prowess.

funny how shisui's eye is apparently the own dojutsu that needed hashirama's cells to enclose TEN YEAR ****ING GAPS...I bet itachi could use tsukuyomi more than once per 10 ****ing years am I right?...

No.

Take Kamui for example. It can be used continuously by the owner. It can also be used continuously by not-the-owner.

Logically, if Kotoamatsukami cannot be used continously by the not-owner, it cannot be used continously by the owner.

Aside from that,

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. The only thing on Danzo that is a product of Orochimaru's research is Hashirama's cells.

how the hell could shisui even know he had kotoamatsukami if he had 10 yr cooldowns?...

1. shisui awakens the mangekyo.

Okay.

2. shisui uses kotoamatsukami and uses it. (how he gets famous for it I have no ****ing clue...who did he use it on and due to the effects of kotoamatsukami how did the jutsu's power GET OUT FOR FAME???????????

Shisui was famous for his genjutsu prowess. Can you show me the scan where it says everyone knew about Kotoamatsukami? It wouldn't have taken much for ANBU/Root/Danzo to know about it, and by extension Hiruzen. Shisui himself told Itachi about it.

3. shisui tries to use kotoamatsukami AGAIN NOT EVEN 10 YEARS PRIOR TO THE UCHIHA MASSACRE...therefore negating he had a 10 yr cooldown...lolololololol

No, because we don't know when he first used Kotoamatsukami. It could have been as a child, or he could have only ever used it in one eye.

4. danzo and itachi takes both his eyes... nice logic bird brain

Again, show me that Kotoamatsukami was famous outside of Ao mentioning it and Danzo/Hiruzen/Itachi knowing about it.

^^^ nice job of proving me right once again...also you need to learn how to read...I stated that if shisui had 10 yr cooldowns then how can he know he has kotoamatsukami but try to use it on the uchiha DISPITE KNOWING HE HAS 10 YR COOLDOWNS????

You weren't proven right.

1. shisui awakens the mangekyo and uses kotoamatsukami therefore realizing he has that power and starts the 10 yr cooldown.

2. SHISUI TRIES TO USE KOTOAMATSUMAKI ON THE UCHIHA...

also HOW CAN SHISUI USE KOTOAMATSUKAMI ON THE ENTIRE UCHIHA IF HE HAS 10 YR COOLDOWNS?????????????????????

What? He never says he was gonna use it on every Uchiha. He just says he was gonna use it to stop the coup d'etat. Fugaku was the leader of the coup d'etat; he could have just used it on Fugaku to convince him to negotiate.

Stop making things up. You also haven't negated a single thing I've said.

 

[gerizzyYMcrew]

It's Kotoamatsukami. Nagato thought it was Amaterasu because he didn't know about Kotoamatsukami. Read the scans. The crow comes out, Kotoamatsukami is cast on Itachi, he's freed from Edo Tensei's control, and then he actually uses Amaterasu against Nagato. He would not have been able to do that if he had not casted Kotoamatsukami on himself, which it's blatantly shown that he does, and this is what Nagato senses.

it's itachi's build up of chakra in his own right eye (the same eye that he casts amaterasu thru)...that is why nagato thought he was using amaterasu (backed up by the drip of blood)...why would nagato sense kotoamatsukami when that jutsu is cast thru shisui's eye and not itachi's?...stop taking scans out of context and stop acting like you are a mental midget...look at the scan again

 

[Claymantan]

it's itachi's build up of chakra in his own right eye (the same eye that he casts amaterasu thru)...that is why nagato thought he was using amaterasu (backed up by the drip of blood)...why would nagato sense kotoamatsukami when that jutsu is cast thru shisui's eye and not itachi's?...stop taking scans out of context and stop acting like you are a mental midget...look at the scan again

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Look at the bottom center. He was casting Kotoamatsukami. It's not like the crow can cast it with it's own chakra. Itachi is the one doing the casting. He was building up chakra for Kotoamatsukami.

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He didn't use Amaterasu until a couple of pages later, and

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Nagato clearly sensed a chakra build up, because he refers to the pressure of the chakra buildup. If it wasn't Amaterasu, it had to be that he sensed Kotoamatasukami.

 

[Da Best Ever]

Bruh the manga explained it very clearly. Yes Danzo had an eye before he got Shisuis right eye and he also used Izanagi to counter his KA. This suggests that the Izanagi is stronger than KA because it can trick the user in believing that he/she is in control of the victim that has Izanagi. The real fodder is Shisui, and this is based on the events that occured in the manga.

Spoiler

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He tried to use KA on Danzo but failed. The manga explains it and the anime shows the exact details of the fight. How much more do you want?



He still used Kamui better than Obito who is an Uchiha though. He maximizes his ability despite his stamina deficiency.

Fail shi sui never used KA on danzo he used a basic sharingan paralyzing jutsu stupid