[Predictions] Naruto Manga 501 Discussion and 502 Predictions

[Hungry Demon Path]

@ Silenceof the lambs of course i admire the guy. You have given me no proof either but your own opinion of who you think is the strongest hokage just like i did. Just because someone sees through everything you do it don't make them stronger just a damn good analyst and the sharingan helps alot with that.the first took the kyubuui out of the fight so i don't see the big Revelation in him being stronger, the second don't see that either the third is the only one i will consider even then it a draw for top spot between him and the fourth. But it don't matter all of them will be surpassed by naruto and they dead

They are "opinions" I suppose, but they are based off of what we know. 1st was definitely the strongest though based off of that info. He controlled all 9 bijuu at some point, and basically ended the Ninja Wars through his genius plan and was strong enough to either mortally wound Madara or seriously screw him over. Minato is great, but it's just a fact that he couldn't beat Madara when the 1st could. The second was renowned for his water jutsu, point: Kakashi and Zabuza's water dragon takes 42 hand seals, 2nd did it with 2 and no water. The ANBU were like wtf. The 3rd was known as the professor for basically knowing every jutsu in the village and he could have stopped kyubii too... he knew Death Reaper like 4th. Oh and 1st was targeted by other villages supposedly by what Kakuzu said.. meaning they sent their best shinobi to finally kill him. Minato said his every move was countered and seen through, I doubt the kyubii had much to do with that. But everyone's entitled to their opinions, but this is not the place for it. Make a thread on who's best guys.

 

[Astral]

I really bet kushina has senju in her, because her restraint was simliar to madara's restraint on the kyuubi as seen in 501, madara had chains and poles while kushina had chains. it would only make sense now

 

[Steinbiz]

Yes, but that will just show that Madara is indeed more powerful than Minato, contradicting everything you have written on that thread. You can't blame a person for something they have or don't have.

it does NOT prove that ROFL. the kyuubi doesn't BELONG to Madara, he just took control of it one day like a pokemon. without his pokemon, minato would wipe the floor with madara

 

[Narutofan123457]

No proof? You said that Minato was strongest of the Hokages. I am going to refute that statement. First of all, Hashirama Senju is stronger than Minato for the very reason you gave in your post - "[he] took the [Nine-Tailed Fox] out of the fight," which is something that Minato could do only by giving up his life, while Hashirama had a special ability designed to suppress the fox. Just there, you can tell that Hashirama is more powerful than Minato, and perhaps the strongest of all the Hokages. Next, Tobirama. He was considered, during his term, as the strongest ninja in his village, and one of the three people that could use Edo Tensei. As long as you rob the revived of their free will, they are impossible to beat, except by having their souls sealed with the Shiki Fuujin, which costs the user his life. Even Sarutobi, who was most likely Hashirama's equal (perhaps surpassing him, though it is hard to say), could only deal with Edo Tensei by sacrificing his life to seal the souls of the First and Second Hokages. Sarutobi himself acknowledged their strength (which was partial) when fighting with them. And Sarutobi, most already know about him. He knew every single technique in Konoha, and was considered "The God of Shinobi." He has much experience, and it certainly helps when in battle. Minato, while an incredible ninja, did not match up to any of these Hokages, possibly because of his early death, but then again you cannot say how strong he would have been had he lived longer.

And if Madara "saw through everything" Minato did (being a good analyst as you call it), how would any of Minato's attacks possibly work on Madara? We can assume Minato's words to mean that, if they fought, each of his attacks were repelled because Madara was always one step ahead of him, reading each of his moves. If they do physically fight in the chapters to come, then perhaps this matter will be settled once and for all.

that's true. Shikamaru saw through everything Hidan did, and he ended up killing Hidan. Obviously that makes Shikamaru stronger than Hidan. It's no different with Madara and Minato.

 

[Steinbiz]

that's true. Shikamaru saw through everything Hidan did, and he ended up killing Hidan. Obviously that makes Shikamaru stronger than Hidan. It's no different with Madara and Minato.

actually this is wrong. shikamaru isn't stronger than Hidan. shikamaru had TONS of previous info on hidan before they fought.

-the fight with asuma gave shikamaru a good look at his entire ability
-he came up with a huge plan days before his fight with hidan and set traps out long before they fought

if hidan and shikamaru fought each other with no knowledge of each others abilities, hidan would've pwnd shikamaru.

 

[Scorps]

The first was stronger than the 4th. Remember that minato could only beat Madara by giving his life in return and madara was already weaker than when he fought with the 1st.

Tobirama, even if his very strong (I believe he is) and used Edo Tensei and great waker techniques, we still don't know how strong he really was. And he died at the hands of regular ninja...fishy deal that...

Sarutobi was very strong, very adept at all areas: ninjutsu, taijutsu, etc. He was the whole package. However, don't believe that he's stronger than the first.

Minato probably had the most potencial; he could have been stronger than all other. But he was killed to young. Even with his speed and his ability to "teleport" and even if he was very adapt at sealing jutsu and justu in general, we still don't know if he was capable of strong offensive jutsu (beside rasengan, that we already know to be a medium technique) or elemental jutsu. (we will know in the following chapters).

Then there's tsunade. I know that no one else agrees with me but she is stronger than minato at the time of his death and problably equals at least the second in strength. She was able to maintain Creation Rebirth active for all the villagers, saving them. She was adept at sealing jutsu, at least to the point that she created a sealing jutsu to seal and entire tailed beast and to even develop a seal that seals chakra in herself. She exceels in Taijutsu and Medical Jutsu (that is proven to be very deadly combination). She has massive chakra and chakra control.

My choice from stronger to weaker would be:

the 1st
sarutobi
tobirama or tsunade (think that they are more or less equal in overal strength)
minato

And I know that Minato's fans are going to hate me...I like minato's character a lot. One of my favorites. But not the strongest for me.

 

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

No proof? You said that Minato was strongest of the Hokages. I am going to refute that statement. First of all, Hashirama Senju is stronger than Minato for the very reason you gave in your post - "[he] took the [Nine-Tailed Fox] out of the fight," which is something that Minato could do only by giving up his life, while Hashirama had a special ability designed to suppress the fox. Just there, you can tell that Hashirama is more powerful than Minato, and perhaps the strongest of all the Hokages. Next, Tobirama. He was considered, during his term, as the strongest ninja in his village, and one of the three people that could use Edo Tensei. As long as you rob the revived of their free will, they are impossible to beat, except by having their souls sealed with the Shiki Fuujin, which costs the user his life. Even Sarutobi, who was most likely Hashirama's equal (perhaps surpassing him, though it is hard to say), could only deal with Edo Tensei by sacrificing his life to seal the souls of the First and Second Hokages. Sarutobi himself acknowledged their strength (which was partial) when fighting with them. And Sarutobi, most already know about him. He knew every single technique in Konoha, and was considered "The God of Shinobi." He has much experience, and it certainly helps when in battle. Minato, while an incredible ninja, did not match up to any of these Hokages, possibly because of his early death, but then again you cannot say how strong he would have been had he lived longer.

And if Madara "saw through everything" Minato did (being a good analyst as you call it), how would any of Minato's attacks possibly work on Madara? We can assume Minato's words to mean that, if they fought, each of his attacks were repelled because Madara was always one step ahead of him, reading each of his moves. If they do physically fight in the chapters to come, then perhaps this matter will be settled once and for all.

I agree with what you said for the most part. Though I think that Minato may be stronger than the first supposing all tailed beasts are sealed. If it was just a one on one fight with Minato vs. Shodaime, then Minato takes it. There have also been speculation as to who was stronger, Sarutobi or Minato. Some say that Minato was the greatest shinobi Konoha ever produced, while others say Sarutobi was the greatest ever produced. It's up for debate.

 

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

actually this is wrong. shikamaru isn't stronger than Hidan. shikamaru had TONS of previous info on hidan before they fought.

-the fight with asuma gave shikamaru a good look at his entire ability
-he came up with a huge plan days before his fight with hidan and set traps out long before they fought

if hidan and shikamaru fought each other with no knowledge of each others abilities, hidan would've pwnd shikamaru.

Shinobi use everything to their advantage. Including the environment :-D

 

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

it does NOT prove that ROFL. the kyuubi doesn't BELONG to Madara, he just took control of it one day like a pokemon. without his pokemon, minato would wipe the floor with madara

But he DID have his pokemon, and came up with an elaborate plan to get it. Minato even said that Madara saw through everything he did...

 

[hbkShika]

very nice chapter, i love minato <444
but kinda short
wuz up with this weeks episode?

 

[vitalsigns]

very nice chapter for a long time indeed...

can't wait to see minato in action!! at last..

 

[pop123]

madara is wrong for what he to mintado wife he rip the nine taikled right out ouf here body to control the nine taild fox and when sasuke and naruto fought naruto and sasuke are going to join forces to defeat madara

 

[kydo]

well looking at it logicaly, i came up with 2 scenarios, with the last being the most logical;

A.- Madara knows that Minato is a speedy beast in battle, who has a great arsenal of techniques that could posibly even hurt him(such as sealing techs he might have learned from kushina or he might have known about Minato's Grim Reaper technique).Taking that into consideration, he didnt want to risk facing the great flash directly(probably wouldnt lay a hand on him and vise versa lol, wud have kinda been a stalemate).

B.- Madara knew about the Flash's abbility(as does all other shinobi), so to prevent him from simply teleporting himself and kushina to any posible location b4 Madara could do anything, Madara did the smart thing by kidnaping Naruto, then "forcing Minato to back away from the jinchuriki(kushina)". Madara then needed to get distance between Kushina and Yondaime so Minato didnt pull a fast' one on him, so he used Naruto as a distracton. Minato was probably calm and laughing inside saying the dumbass just gave his only card away.Then to Minato's surprise and misfortune, explosive seals were on Naruto, so he couldnt do what he wanted, which wud be to teleport Naruto away then instantly go back and get Kushina, cuz then either Naruto or all of them would end up dead.

The only thing i dont exactly like with the whole thing, is that Flying Thunder God is supposed to be instantaneous, so why didnt he teleport naruto to that building that we saw explode, then b4 the seals went off, instead of diving outside, just teleport to kushina with naruto in hand and get them both out of there.If its all instantaneous, then there should be no time for the opponent to make any move, that would endanger any of them in the time it takes Minato to appear beside Kushina, then disapear again.

Either way, i did enjoy this chapter, and its fine how it turned out. Otherwise it would all be too easy for Yondaime and we wouldnt have the tragic background that defines the main character.I especialy loved the ending where Minato was like, "im gonna go own this fool, no contest, cuz he threatened wats most dare to me, totaly pissing me off".His cloak is freakin epic, dont u think? Naruto better get a better one.I cant wait to see my second all time favorite Naruto character in action. Should be epic unless Kishi fails, which he hasent done lately. :hypertobi:

 

[ulquiorra12]

this week episode aint being held and ppl i don't think the masked man is mardara...i think itz OBITO and if not obito then well some1 else other then madara.

 

[Scorps]

this week episode aint being held and ppl i don't think the masked man is mardara...i think itz OBITO and if not obito then well some1 else other then madara.

at the time of the incident obito was a kid that had just died... a kid.... god...madara is the masked men!!!! leave it already!!!

 

[kydo]

in response to the other little debates going on above; The 4th is stronger than the 1st

in my opinion, speed is probably the deadliest of all ninja abilities.Speed could end a battle in the blink of an eye.And speed is Minato's greatest and most noted asset, even tho he was a genious in many other areas.All it would take is one well timed teleportation technique for minato to decide the battle between him and the First Hokage.All he would need is 1 touch to place his seal then end the battle in the next split second by loping off the First's head.I say this with the greatest respect for the First, but there realy is no real counter for insane speed as seen with Sasuke vs Raikage and when Sasuke fired the arrow at Kakashi, if they didnt posses the unique sharingan abbilities such as Susano'o and Kamui, they would have died. The First no doubt has an imense arsenal of techniques, but i doubt he has anything to counter Minato's level of speed(teleportation).Things would only be worse for the First if they had no intel on each other.

It is also my theory that Madara developed his warping technique after his battle with the First.Otherwise i dont realy see how the First could have fought him, unless the First had another special abbility like the one which allows him to easily control tailed beasts, that works on Madara as well.That being said, i doubt any of his special abbilities are realy going to have any significant effect against the likes of Minato who uses basic ninja arts, altho on a very high lvl (speed/taijutsu = Flying Thunder God, ninjutsu = rasengan, death reaper = might be clasified as genjutsu lol).Im also very sure the First Hokage's head can be choped off just like any other shinobi's, unless the First is a god. :hypertobi:

 

[maldoror]

First : the tentails most likely dont have a soul, because he is a Demon without a soul!

he might have "will" and chakra and mind, and those will and chakra and mind were seperated and divided by the sage of the six paths!

second: why would kishi need to put a beasts soul into a great human like madara or anyone else for that matter?, why would kishi make the main villian only a beast?

since he was the one who killed narutos mother and created akatsuki etc..., it would be very silly to make him only a tailed beast in the end!!

10 tails chakra is divided yes, but there is no indication that his mind is also divided. It is made perfectly clear that chakra, mind and body are different and seperatable parts when it comes to tailed beasts (example: chapter 490 page 11). His chakra is divided to tailed beasts, body is inside the moon but nothing is said about its mind. So mind of the 10 tails might as well be somewhere around.

I might be wrong, i was merely training a thought. But your statements seem to be only emotional, assuming that a non-human demon can never be a villain. Do you read manga much ?

 

[Scorps]

in response to the other little debates going on above; The 4th is stronger than the 1st

in my opinion, speed is probably the deadliest of all ninja abilities.Speed could end a battle in the blink of an eye.And speed is Minato's greatest and most noted asset, even tho he was a genious in many other areas.All it would take is one well timed teleportation technique for minato to decide the battle between him and the First Hokage.All he would need is 1 touch to place his seal then end the battle in the next split second by loping off the First's head.I say this with the greatest respect for the First, but there realy is no real counter for insane speed as seen with Sasuke vs Raikage and when Sasuke fired the arrow at Kakashi, if they didnt posses the unique sharingan abbilities such as Susano'o and Kamui, they would have died. The First no doubt has an imense arsenal of techniques, but i doubt he has anything to counter Minato's level of speed(teleportation).Things would only be worse for the First if they had no intel on each other.

It is also my theory that Madara developed his warping technique after his battle with the First.Otherwise i dont realy see how the First could have fought him, unless the First had another special abbility like the one which allows him to easily control tailed beasts, that works on Madara as well.That being said, i doubt any of his special abbilities are realy going to have any significant effect against the likes of Minato who uses basic ninja arts, altho on a very high lvl (speed/taijutsu = Flying Thunder God, ninjutsu = rasengan, death reaper = might be clasified as genjutsu lol).Im also very sure the First Hokage's head can be choped off just like any other shinobi's, unless the First is a god. :hypertobi:

I agree with most of what you said. the 1st can be killed if you chop his head of. but what bugs me is...who could the first beat madara then? the warping is almost like the thunder god and madara got his ass kicked. genjutsu? a tech that whe don't know about? what i know is that the 3 most powerfull caracters in the series are the sage, the 1st and madara. since the first beat madara and almost killed him, and minato only sealed away the fox, one must realize that the first is more powerfull. however, the details of both hokages fights with madara are going to be important in resolving this question.

I believe that danzo used madara to try and become hokage by destroying the 4th and leading the village back to war. maybe minato only sealed the fox and didn't beat madara because someone (danzo) interviened in the fight. if so, minato could be stronger than i think. hjowever, from what i see so far...not as strong as the 1st. lets wait and see for more data..

 

[Scorps]

First : the tentails most likely dont have a soul, because he is a Demon without a soul!

he might have "will" and chakra and mind, and those will and chakra and mind were seperated and divided by the sage of the six paths!

second: why would kishi need to put a beasts soul into a great human like madara or anyone else for that matter?, why would kishi make the main villian only a beast?

since he was the one who killed narutos mother and created akatsuki etc..., it would be very silly to make him only a tailed beast in the end!!

and why not? sillier things have happened... jiraya died... naruto's mom suddenly is a powerfull ninja from a forgotten powerfull clan and the previous host for the 9 tails... naruto suddenly is one of the most powerfull ninja alive (in more or less 50 chapters or so, he envolved from "normal" to uuuuubbbbberrrr strong...)... it would make sense if madara was more than a simple human... but the sage is said to only have separated the jubi in two... chakra and body... no mention to the jubi mind...so maybe kishi is saving it for after...

Iknow....LOLOLlol sakura's bad temper is a result of the jubi mind...its sealed behind in her gigantic forehead... LOLOL

 

[knealis]

quick thought (bit of a stretch but...) what if "Tobi" isn't necessarily the same one that attacked the Fourth? I mean his mask is changed so maybe its kind of like a family thing passed down from father to son from Madara when they come of age they become "Tobi" defender of the Uchiha Clan each attempting, in their own way, to restore the grandeur of the Uchiha.

Or...Or it is Sasuke's mom i mean she is the only person Kushina is seen talking to before the baby comes. And when itachi kills everyone, their mom uses so technique (genjutsu possibly, or some kind of mind transfer thing) to make it look like she is dead (or itachi did it)

just a thought