3 Tomoe Itachi vs Hiashi Hyuga

[~Ethereal~]

It could go either way.

 

[shelke]

But Kakashi was counting the RS needles which is on cellular level .

I doubt the needle's sharp point is the size of a cell.

 

[~Ethereal~]

Cooling the rotations.

 

[Eng nawashi]

I doubt the needle's sharp point is the size of a cell.

Every needle is even smaller than a single cell .

Spoiler

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[Curse Mark]

I doubt the needle's sharp point is the size of a cell.

RS needles were the size of cells from the illustration that was given.

 

[NarutoX28]

Its based on the manga-fact that byakugan sees and "senses " the enemies attacks.

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Every kunai will be accurately percieved and sensed , fact and chakra can be used to compensate for anything his vision may lack.

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I reread a part of the manga and while I do not agree with the idea that he can sense objects using chakra, it was made clear that the Hyuga do surround themselves with chakra that covers a certain radius that does in fact increase his perception:

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I don't agree with the idea that Hiashi can simply perceive all of Itachi's strikes. The Byakugan's ability has easily been countered by strikes that are far more predictable than Itachi's and since there is a limited range to the Byakugan's increased perception, he can easily perform a few bushin feints (considering he had done so against SM Kabuto), create a diversion, and strike him when he least expects it as diversions have been shown to effectively counter the Byakugan.

 

[shelke]

Every needle is even smaller than a single cell .

Spoiler

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He was not talking about RS needles, for God's sake.

RS needles were the size of cells from the illustration that was given.

In the scan I posted, he is talking about a common, small house-hold needle.

 

[BLAZE]

There is so much wrong with that statement I don't know where to start

says Chakra control means genjutsu won't work on hiashi despite the fact neji[who has similiar stats than him in DB in genjutsu] and hinata[who has 2.5 in genjutsu] completely lacks yin release.Even hiashi hasn't shown it

hell even tsunade known for chakra control does not have it

Who is c

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[neosmith500]

I reread a part of the manga and while I do not agree with the idea that he can sense objects using chakra, it was made clear that the Hyuga do surround themselves with chakra that covers a certain radius that does in fact increase his perception:
.

They have a vision of nearly 360° with the byakugan and with the byakugan they can "also " "sense " all (bar blind spot ) the opponents attacks , that's how neji was even able to pull off evading all those daggers from kido , he "sensed" and felt exactly where they were coming from and moved accordingly , a feat which is impossible with 360° vision alone since the daggers were coming in raining waves from all directions requiring point-blank manoeuvres.

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Makes perfect sense since its exactly wat kishi illustrated in the manga by tellin us that byakugan not only sees but "detects/sense/feels" incoming attacks making it possible to simultaneously dodge attacks coming in waves from all angles as neji demonstrated.

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-On top of that the manga agrees that they can take it a step farther by also "detecting" objects with chakra. Making ur statement null.

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I don't agree with the idea that Hiashi can simply perceive all of Itachi's strikes. The Byakugan's ability has easily been countered by strikes that are far more predictable than Itachi's and since there is a limited range to the Byakugan's increased perception, he can easily perform a few bushin feints (considering he had done so against SM Kabuto), create a diversion, and strike him when he least expects it as diversions have been shown to effectively counter the Byakugan.

Could u name some of the times the byakugans ability was countered by these predictable strikes?

- Kabuto doesnt have 360° long range vision and itachi had sasuke with him makin it easier to feint him . Neji's vision limit was 50m , hiashi's limit is leagues above that , almost anything itachi does will be perceived by hiashi , any attack thats not percieved will be "sensed" , if itachi weaves hand-signs and/or concentrates chakra for a clone or jutsu byakugan spots that instantly.

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However With itachi's skill at shuriken jutsu and proper utilization of his clones , he can effectively keep hiashi busy and use it to force chakra usage and acquire info but any attacks bar sophisticated usage of shuriken-jutsu simultaneously performed by itachi and his clones , will get stopped by chakra and even if when itachi creates a successful diversion , hiashi can still save himself at the last minute using chakra.

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[unknownvillain1254]

says Chakra control means genjutsu won't work on hiashi despite the fact neji[who has similiar stats than him in DB in genjutsu] and hinata[who has 2.5 in genjutsu] completely lacks yin release.Even hiashi hasn't shown it

hell even tsunade known for chakra control does not have it

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Genjutsu is all about chakra control the stronger your cc the easy breaking Genjutsu is and the pinnacle of cc is tsud seal which is simply sending chakra to your forehead that's child play for the Hyuga

 

[BLAZE]

Genjutsu is all about chakra control the stronger your cc the easy breaking Genjutsu is and the pinnacle of cc is tsud seal which is simply sending chakra to your forehead that's child play for the Hyuga

no its not.Sakura has natural aptitude for genjutsu unlike Tsunade who lacks Yin release.Even Neji and Hinata does not have yin release

yeah jiraiya explained naruto how to break free from genjutsu [

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][

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] and he still failed and needed help from sakura and chiyo

and here we are talking about 3T Itachi who defeated two S rank shinobi's [

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][

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] with genjutsu and was able to catch speedster like killer bee in genjutsu too

 

[Curse Mark]

He was not talking about RS needles, for God's sake.



In the scan I posted, he is talking about a common, small house-hold needle.

He clearly was not as you quoted him saying RS needles.

 

[Tyris]

But Kakashi was counting the RS needles which is on cellular level .

lol counting doesn't put one @ hagoromo lvl of CC

 

[BLAZE]

I doubt the needle's sharp point is the size of a cell.

Yes they can be as they are microscopic too

Databook 3 - Fuuton: RasenShuriken
Wind Release: Spiralling Shuriken (風遁・螺旋手裏剣, Fuuton: Rasen Shuriken)
Ninjutsu, S-rank, Offensive, Short range (0-5m)
User: Uzumaki Naruto

The "Wind" sharpens the "spiral," turning it into a blade who's one hit means certain death!!

"Extreme"~~ Certainly, that's the most appropriate word for this technique. Adding "Wind" "nature manipulation" to the Rasengan, already boasting tremendous destructive power by having raised "shape transformation" to its utmost limits...!! With this sharp blade of wind, the killing power is drastically increased...!! Its weak point is that one needs to get close to and a hit. On the other hand, there is no-one who can withstand a direct hit. Even so, currently it's only 50% completed. The destructive power it will have once completed is unimaginable!!

The technique left behind by a great hero is brought to a new height~~!!

[picture of Naruto using two Shadow Clones to infuse Wind chakra into the Rasengan]
↑The completed "Rasengan" is infused with "Wind" chakra!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[picture of Naruto nearing Kakuzu with the Spiralling Shuriken]
←While the "shuriken" is spinning at high speed, it is thrust directly into the opponent's chest~~!!

The countless blades produced by the violent wind pierce and destroy everything!!

↓Countless blades cut into the target!! It's impossible to see through that number of attacks.
[picture of the Spiralling Shuriken destroying Kakuzu]

[picture of the vortex created by the Spiralling Shuriken]
↑The tornado-like gale resounds with a thunderous roar!! Afterwards, nothing remains but the ruins of the enemy and the silence after the storm.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The "Wind" nature transformation that makes the "spiral" what it should be: the strongest!!

As the name suggest, its shape resembles that of a giant shuriken. However, it is actually composed of microscopic blades. The wind chakra whirling around the "spiral" is changed into countless blades, all striking the target at once......!!

[picture of the Wind Release: Rasengan]
[picture showing how cells are destroyed with the Spiralling Shuriken]
→↑The chakra, shaped like tiny swords, directly severs the meridians* tying the body's cells together...!!

*The pathways connecting the vital points in the body, as used in acupuncture.

imo Sharigan can see chakra points to an extent asseen in case of Sasuke seeing microscopic bomb and kakashi seeing microscopic needles just like it can see through solid rocks [

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[shelke]

Yes they can be as they are microscopic too

imo Sharigan can see chakra points to an extent asseen in case of Sasuke seeing microscopic bomb and kakashi seeing microscopic needles just like it can see through solid rocks [

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Context, man. I am talking about the part one scan. FRS is an unheard of concept at that point. I agree as well, if Sharingan can see at cellular level, then the chakra points are far bigger.

He clearly was not as you quoted him saying RS needles.

In part I scan? RS is not even a thing then. It that scan he's talking about the household needle.

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The chakra points are of that size. How did RS come into this discussion?

 

[BLAZE]

In part I scan? RS is not even a thing then. It that scan he's talking about the household needle.

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The chakra points are of that size. How did RS come into this discussion?

Eh my bad but your scan.Neji implies his eyes can see chakra points which hinata could not [

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] but later on we know that hinata can also see chakra points as she performed 64 palms

Spoiler

Databook Entry: Hakke Rokujuuyonshou


This is originally a Taijutsu that is passed down only in the Hyuuga main house. However, being a branch house member, Neji uses his own intuition and natural talents to master the secrets of this Taijutsu.

Using the Byakugan's 360 degrees vision and mapping this vision onto a "Divination Hexagram Formation". Then the user will launch a series of high speed combo onto opponent that lies within this formation. The attacks are aimed at 64 of the opponent's tenketsu, thus closing these chakra points and stopping the chakra flow of the opponent. The victim will not even have the strength to stand up. Therefore this is a deadly Taijutsu that is suitable to be pass down within the Hyuuga line.

so don't see how part 1 scan of kakashi being not able to see them matters when he has seen microscopic blades of FRS.

Obviously sharingan user won't be able to see it like Byakugan but they should be able to see it upto an extent

 

[shelke]

Eh my bad but your scan.Neji implies his eyes can see chakra points which hinata could not [

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] but later on we know that hinata can also see chakra points as she performed 64 palms

Spoiler

Databook Entry: Hakke Rokujuuyonshou


This is originally a Taijutsu that is passed down only in the Hyuuga main house. However, being a branch house member, Neji uses his own intuition and natural talents to master the secrets of this Taijutsu.

Using the Byakugan's 360 degrees vision and mapping this vision onto a "Divination Hexagram Formation". Then the user will launch a series of high speed combo onto opponent that lies within this formation. The attacks are aimed at 64 of the opponent's tenketsu, thus closing these chakra points and stopping the chakra flow of the opponent. The victim will not even have the strength to stand up. Therefore this is a deadly Taijutsu that is suitable to be pass down within the Hyuuga line.

so don't see how part 1 scan of kakashi being not able to see them matters when he has seen microscopic blades of FRS.

Obviously sharingan user won't be able to see it like Byakugan but they should be able to see it upto an extent

She obviously improved. Black Zetsu: "a tool is as good as the user," or something along these lines. So did Kakashi. He got MS as well. So training your eye goes a long way. However, it is important to note here that it took Kakashi more than a decade to do so, and Sasuke could see them not long after he achieved 3 Tomoe. Itachi would be the same. So, original genes do require far less training. Hinata was just an inept castout, while Neji and Hiashi are exceptional.

My argument also wasn't on who can see it or not, but rather, the chakra points ar hardly THAT small that a Sharingan won't be able to see.

 

[BLAZE]

She obviously improved. Black Zetsu: "a tool is as good as the user," or something along these lines. So did Kakashi. He got MS as well. So training your eye goes a long way. However, it is important to note here that it took Kakashi more than a decade to do so, and Sasuke could see them not long after he achieved 3 Tomoe. Itachi would be the same. So, original genes do require far less training. Hinata was just an inept castout, while Neji and Hiashi are exceptional.

My argument also wasn't on who can see it or not, but rather, the chakra points ar hardly THAT small that a Sharingan won't be able to see.

oh i get it now what you were saying

 

[Draegod]

lol Sharingan cannot see the chakra network or points ever. Kakashi

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not the damage being done on the Network what so ever. It was after healing Naruto Tsunade noted the affects of the tech explaining what "PROBABLY" happened. She obviously wasn't there, and kakashi had no idea what happened (otherwise he would have said something). The nano bombs weren't even smaller then Blood cells let alone the Ten' points as seen when inside his veins.

And even after derailing the facts of the manga (no Sharingan has ever seen the Chakra points and network), they cannot see chakra build up and only see chakra color to emit a users chakra in their body as a whole to gauge them in general.

 

[shelke]

lol Sharingan cannot see the chakra network or points ever. Kakashi

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not the damage being done on the Network what so ever. It was after healing Naruto Tsunade noted the affects of the tech explaining what "PROBABLY" happened. She obviously wasn't there, and kakashi had no idea what happened (otherwise he would have said something). The nano bombs weren't even smaller then Blood cells let alone the Ten' points as seen when inside his veins.

And even after derailing the facts of the manga (no Sharingan has ever seen the Chakra points and network), they cannot see chakra build up and only see chakra color to emit a users chakra in their body as a whole to gauge them in general.

They are cellular. Whether you agree or not doesn't change Obito's and Deidara's statements. These are the small veins. The scan before it shows them in large clusters within larger veins. Let's not deny clear cut facts.

I agree with Kakashi's part. I thought others were right, because I remembered that he had never seen them at cellular level. Looks like he never did. Though that is a completely different debate.