Disprove what? All I've seen you is post scans of Law and Luffy not fighting DD together claiming that DD could handle a 2 on 1. Not to mention all of these scans are Luffy not in G4, DD is having his hands full with Luffy alone in G4, adding Zoro is overkill.
And Luffy is just starting off in Gear 4? While Luffy is transforming, what's stopping Doflamingo from catching Zoro and Sanji in Parasite and using them as meatshields? Or catching the inferior members? Bear in mind he's shown to be able to catch people in the middle of defending and while they're charging.
And Luffy is just starting off in Gear 4? While Luffy is transforming, what's stopping Doflamingo from catching Zoro and Sanji in Parasite and using them as meatshields? Or catching the inferior members? Bear in mind he's shown to be able to catch people in the middle of defending and while they're charging.
Prepping G4 doesn't take forever stop reaching not to mention he can't use them as meat shields. All DD has done with higher level fighters is stop their movements, he can't freely control not to mention even if he could their bodies wouldn't be physically able to keep up with Luffy he'd reach DD before they could jump in the way to shield him.
Neither does Parasite. Or any of Doffy's techniques. The entire time Luffy is blowing up his arm, relocating the air, as his body contorts, is all ample time for Doflamingo to Parasite a SH.
All DD has done with higher level fighters is stop their movements, he can't freely control not to mention even if he could their bodies wouldn't be physically able to keep up with Luffy he'd reach DD before they could jump in the way to shield him.
Not only is this incorrect because Doflamingo, while weakened, kept up with Luffy's Gear 4 speed, but Doflamingo can definitely yank them into the path of a Gear 4th punch. Not to mention he can have the weaker SHs attack each other, which will pull Luffy's attention and leave him open to be attacked.
I think it'd be at a greater difficulty than Law/Luffy tbh, those two got lucky with their win as well. People are forgetting that Doflamingo is a puppeteer, he'll just manipulate the weak trio and have the other SH's attack them accidentally (mainly Luffy & Zoro), after that they'll be shocked and it would be the perfect timing for Doflamingo to deliver some serious blows to the M3. Even, killing off the weaker members of the SH's will make everyone else shocked and a easy target.
Law's ability helped Luffy land most if not all of his Red Hawk's. Luffy or any of the other SH's wouldn't have that luxury. If you changed it to M3 vs Doflamingo, the difficulty will be lessened but they will still lose. Zoro would suffer a similar defeat that Sanji experienced against Doffy too.
Absolutely incorrect, but stellar analytical abilities.
Anyone on the SHs who below Luffy's level and who lack the feats or powerscaling benefit to break the strings, which is everyone but Luffy, cannot see through Doflamingo's strings or avoid them.
No one on Luffy's squad can offer the teleportive abilities that created the chance for Luffy to land Red Hawk.
If Luffy isn't in Gear 4th, he can't compete with Doffy in the long run.
None of the Strawhats have shown the ability to break the strings, bar Luffy. Nor have any of them shown to be immune or able to avoid them.
The team of Law and Luffy couldn't defeat Doffy on their own, and that team is stronger than the team of Luffy and Zoro.
You're asking for things that never happened in manga. Zoro never fought Joker and he never will, So, there is no way I can feed you with feats. I admit that Zoro doesn't have feats to say he can see through Doflamingo's strings. However, lack of feats isn't all there is to warrant certain defeat or victory. And let me tell you that if you think Zoro is too weak that he couldn't see through something even base Luffy can keep up with then there is definitely something wrong with the way you're reading this manga. Inb4 Sanji treatment crap from one of mad slaves of Sanji; Don't even try to compare him with Zoro until he actually shows something note worthy. Sanji's portrayal after TS is garbage compare to Luffy's/ Zoro's whether you like it or not.
Btw, there is a reason why Oda choose Fujitora to own Zoro instead of Doflamingo.
Right here. Let's talk about the speed right here. Doflamingo's arm was already arched back with Overheat produced. Law ran forward, threw a log, created Room, did Shambles, created another Room, and then swapped himself with Doflamingo. All of that was done before Doflamingo was able to bring his arm forward. For an idea of how fast Overheat is, it crossed several kilometers in seconds.
With all that speed, and with the Room encircling Doflamingo and reaching to the water below and with Doflamingo showing he can be affected by Shambles, what was stopping Law from swapping Doflamingo with some of the water below, placing Doffy underwater, instead of swapping himself with Doflamingo? And before anyone tries to say that Law couldn't use his powers on Seawater, he made it float when fighting Smoker and has cut through Seastone more than once using Room.
I can tell you. Because the answer is not long at all. The boulder was this close to the execution platform[
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] before Akainu even moved to charge up his attack. He could have charged up that same attack while giving Ace and Luffy the speech about Justice, or while taunting Ace about how WB is worthless, or while explaining why Magu is superior to Mera(during this scene in particular, his arm was already charged up on magma, the same way it was when he fired the meteors fist).
Yes, punching Luffy might have been faster, but that's not the point of the discussion. The argument is that characters have strong options they don't use all the time, but that doesn't mean they could not. That's why Doffy didn't use Parasite until the end of the fight: Plot and need for the story. If Oda had characters do all the best possible things, then Luffy would have died many, many times.
When on Earth did I say anything about Jozu when it comes to Haki? NOWHERE in that entire section of argument did I even mention Jozu. You're slipping.
....You're trolling right? WB's Haki made this possible:
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So you're saying Doflamingo can cut through people if he pleases, but Whitebeard can't?
It's not impossible to decapitate people you know. Hell, even Roger was executed by lopping off his head.
Magic has absolutely nothing to do with it. If a Sea King can take Shanks' arm, if Jack can take the legs and arms of Neko and Inu, nothing is stopping WB from taking Akainu's head if he tried.
Of course the fastest guy will get there first. That doesn't matter because Akainu and Kuzan could have also gotten there and did more to put Luffy out of the war than Kizaru did. Those two didn't even try to go because Kizaru opted to. If Kizaru let Akainu go, he could have incinerated Luffy and Aokiji could have froze and then broke him.
Tell me, how would Ivankov's Hormones fix Luffy being buried in magma, or being shattered into ice cubes?
Yes, because that's how debating works. I've noticed you haven't even attempted to touch the instances of Kizaru shooting people in the chest or otherwise, instead of shooting them through the head. You also haven't attempted to touch the instances of Lucci not killing a paralyzed or immobile Luffy.
Not even, considering many of the scenarios involve different concepts. Debunking one doesn't debunk all. The fact of the matter is you can't debunk them, especially the ones involving paralyzed Luffy and Kizaru, but you have to keep up this bravado.
"I'm not winning so I'm taking my ball and going home."
Doflamingo wasn't pressured until Gear 4th. You're also doing a lot of guessing.
That doesn't change that Doflamingo can catch people while they are attacking and while he is actively blocking an attack.
Luffy has feats of being able to break out of Parasite. Powerscaling also can act as an argument for being able to break out of Parasite.
I like that you conveniently left out how all of that was only possible due to Room's teleportive abilities. Remove Shambles and tell me, would any of those scenarios have happened?
As I mentioned before, Doflamingo has shown the ability to catch multiple people, to catch people while they're charging, and to catch people while he's defending. If Zoro, Sanji, and Luffy charge him all at once, he can catch Zoro and Sanji while blocking Luffy. If it's just Luffy and Zoro, same deal.
People also say this like Doflamingo is just gonna stand there and let them charge him, as opposed to diving at once as they charge and intercepting them in the middle of their charge.
This is a jumble of your inability to comprehend what I'm saying, or purposefully ignoring most of what I am saying.
This thread will go on for 40 pages If I continued this, if you could atleast comprehend what I am saying I might have continued this but this post had me facepalming from start to finish. Seriously wtf is this?
Reread what I have said from the start to finish, and quote me again properly if you want me to continue replying to this. You aren't even trying at this point.
There is also powerscaling. If Zoro shows to be above in power to someone who can break the strings, then that can warrant saying he can as well.
I admit that Zoro doesn't have feats to say he can see through Doflamingo's strings. However, lack of feats isn't all there is to warrant certain defeat or victory.
In debates, it is. If a character hasn't shown the feat to do something, then we can't say he can do it.
And let me tell you that if you think Zoro is too weak that he couldn't see through something even base Luffy can keep up with then there is definitely something wrong with the way you're reading this manga.
When did Base Luffy see through and break the strings? Don't forget that seeing the strings or knowing that strings are there isn't enough to be able to avoid them.
Inb4 Sanji treatment crap from one of mad slaves of Sanji; Don't even try to compare him with Zoro until he actually shows something note worthy. Sanji's portrayal after TS is garbage compare to Luffy's/ Zoro's whether you like it or not.
There are zero feats or portrayals that place Zoro lightyears ahead of Sanji.
After the timeskip, Zoro has fought almost zero people with any serious clout. Put Sanji against Monet(remove the chivalry stuff) and Pica, and you get the exact same result. Zoro's best feat after the timeskip is cutting through Pica's waist, a feat that Sanji has matched when he burned through Wada's body.
Put any of the Monster Trio against fodder like Monet and Pica, and they're gonna look uber badass. It says a lot more about Zoro fans that looking great in front of fodder means super great portrayal. The only person of clout Zoro went up against was Fujitora, and to only inconvenience Fujitora for 3 seconds, it Zoro so much energy he was left panting on one leg. But still people try to pass him off as this guy who's been rolling through top tiers.
Show me one impressive fighting feat from Zoro post-skip that doesn't involve someone who's been established as far weaker than the Monster Trio. I'll wait.
Btw, there is a reason why Oda choose Fujitora to own Zoro instead of Doflamingo.
This is a jumble of your inability to comprehend what I'm saying, or purposefully ignoring most of what I am saying.
This thread will go on for 40 pages If I continued this, if you could atleast comprehend what I am saying I might have continued this but this post had me facepalming from start to finish. Seriously wtf is this?
Reread what I have said from the start to finish, and quote me again properly if you want me to continue replying to this. You aren't even trying at this point.
Neither does Parasite. Or any of Doffy's techniques. The entire time Luffy is blowing up his arm, relocating the air, as his body contorts, is all ample time for Doflamingo to Parasite a SH.
Says who?
Not only is this incorrect because Doflamingo, while weakened, kept up with Luffy's Gear 4 speed, but Doflamingo can definitely yank them into the path of a Gear 4th punch. Not to mention he can have the weaker SHs attack each other, which will pull Luffy's attention and leave him open to be attacked.
Never said his techniques do. But only yhe weaker SH would get caught up like that off the bat.
Says who? Show me DD freely manipulating anyone note worthy, both Sanji and Jozu's movements only got halted never were they freely manipulated.
Luffy was also weakened which is irrelevant to the point, I never claimed that Luffy would blitz him at all, he his yanking the SH who will be resisting his control, their bodies wouldn't be fast enough to intercept Luffy.
Never said his techniques do. But only yhe weaker SH would get caught up like that off the bat.
Says who? Show me DD freely manipulating anyone note worthy, both Sanji and Jozu's movements only got halted never were they freely manipulated.
Luffy was also weakened which is irrelevant to the point, I never claimed that Luffy would blitz him at all, he his yanking the SH who will be resisting his control, their bodies wouldn't be fast enough to intercept Luffy.
Check my above reply to Toshi about this "Never doing it means they can't thing." There are tons of things could have done that were better than what they did do.
Luffy wasn't nearly as weakened as Doflamingo. The only major injuries that occurred to Luffy between Luffy and Law arriving at the palace and Gear 4 was inflicted by Doflamingo himself.
Oh bullshit. Luffy and Zoro were throwing aside buildings pre-skip, and you're telling me Doflamingo can't lug a 200 pound human being in front of him rapidly?
Removing Doffy's damage to Luffy, Luffy was easily in the 90 percentile when he went up against a near dead Doflamingo. Luffy 100% fresh makes damn near no difference. And why would Luffy be in Gear 4th at the start of the fight? Then one can easily say the fight starts with Bird Cage 3 meters from closing around all of the participants or something. Or that Doflamingo starts off with Parasite already latched to them.
If you have to say something like "Luffy starts off in Gear 4th" in order to justify the win, then it's clear who actually wins.
There is also powerscaling. If Zoro shows to be above in power to someone who can break the strings, then that can warrant saying he can as well.In debates, it is. If a character hasn't shown the feat to do something, then we can't say he can do it. hen did Base Luffy see through and break the strings? Don't forget that seeing the strings or knowing that strings are there isn't enough to be able to avoid them. There are zero feats or portrayals that place Zoro lightyears ahead of Sanji. After the timeskip, Zoro has fought almost zero people with any serious clout. Put Sanji against Monet(remove the chivalry stuff) and Pica, and you get the exact same result. Zoro's best feat after the timeskip is cutting through Pica's waist, a feat that Sanji has matched when he burned through Wada's body. Put any of the Monster Trio against fodder like Monet and Pica, and they're gonna look uber badass. It says a lot more about Zoro fans that looking great in front of fodder means super great portrayal. The only person of clout Zoro went up against was Fujitora, and to only inconvenience Fujitora for 3 seconds, it Zoro so much energy he was left panting on one leg. But still people try to pass him off as this guy who's been rolling through top tiers. Show me one impressive fighting feat from Zoro post-skip that doesn't involve someone who's been established as far weaker than the Monster Trio. I'll wait.No there isn't.
Fallacy, it's absolutely unnecessary for Zoro or any character for that matter to have more power than someone who can break free out of his strings. You talk as if it took everything Luffy has got to break out of his strings or something.Whereas, in reality, he seemingly didn't even struggle to break free. Breaking strings isn't the only option VS parasite. You can always choose to avoid rather than forcing yourself out of it. If you're skilled enough to see through his strings then you can obviously avoid it. It's because of that reason Doflamingo never attempted to use it on Luffy until when he was dragged to a level where he can't even more properly.
It's funny how you swept aside everything you've said about feats being everything in a debate but still compare Sanji's accomplishments to Zoro's with a straight face when Sanji has yet to show any feats of armament. Lets be real here, FMI opponents are utter garbage compared to Doflamingo's crew. Wadatsumi was nothing more than fodder before Zoro's opponent in same arc let alone Pica who came after two arcs. Hyouzou gone through the same monster transformation as Hody, Yet Zoro treated him like a Worm. All it took Zoro to own the man who was right next to Hody was one of his low end moves. Sanji, however, required an attack stronger than anything we've seen so far in the series from him, Just to beat someone weaker than Zoro's opponent. That too after when he took quite a beating from Jimbe. No one in his right mind would think about comparing those insects with the strongest of Doflamingo's crew. Should I remind you how a black armament less Jet pistol was all it took Luffy to break his tooth and to get rid of him from getting in his way?This should explain how low you're willing go to make Sanji look stronger than what manga insinuates, I know the truth hurts but it's time to accept the reality. Only thing that's still going on for Sanji to compare the him with Zoro is his pre time skip portrayal. If it isn't for that, Zoro absolutely molests Sanji, If you compare their post skip portrayal and feats.
Please, we aren't reading manga so badly that we'd think beating a fodder or two would be suffice to place a character far above someone who's portrayed to be on same level as him. The way how Zoro treated those characters is what made Zoro look more impressive. Even Oda heavily disagrees with you here. You remember it, right? There was a common spectator who witnessed their battles at PH. Yes, It's Tashigi, Guess who left her with a terrified/shocked face(However you see it) and made her wonder how strong the SH's have gotten? It's Zoro. Zoro left much better impression on someone who perfectly understands the difference b/w Mone and Vergo. It's Oda who had planned it to go the way it did in canon. So, if you want to blame anyone then blame the writer for hyping Zoro way more than Sanji.
We've been through this argument numerous times , I don't understand why you insist on posting same good old excuses again and again, even though they were countered like a 100 times already. List all of Zoro's opponents after TS and do the same with Sanji, Then you'll realize that you were wrong all along as Zoro's opponents are just as strong as if not stronger than people Sanji came across so far after TS. Regarding Fujitora argument, He was assaulted out of nowhere by Issho, he still forced his way out of the attack unlike certain someone who needs protection from Law. Let's stop taking things way out of proportion, Zoro wasn't panting neither was he on his knee because he overexerted himself to break free.
He simply shrugged off his attack after taking a deep breath. The stance he took was the resultant of the jump from the pit. He was perfectly fine in the next panel he was shown. That's a lot times better than getting your leg cracked by likes of Vergo and not being able to last more than a few seconds against Doflamingo, considering Doflamingo is substantially weaker than Fujitora when Vergo can't even be found in the realm that contains Fujitora. Moreover, it's seems like you're overlooking the fact that Zoro engaged Fujitora to a fight later on"Although it was off paneled" and came out without soo much as a dent on his body.
Yeah, Oda had him intercept Zoro because he wanted to create a pit near amphitheater to make populace of Dressrosa fall in it so that he can laugh it off in future, right? Or May be he wanted to use a weak character like Fujitora to own Zoro because Doflamingo would to be too strong for Zoro?
Removing Doffy's damage to Luffy, Luffy was easily in the 90 percentile when he went up against a near dead Doflamingo. Luffy 100% fresh makes damn near no difference. And why would Luffy be in Gear 4th at the start of the fight? Then one can easily say the fight starts with Bird Cage 3 meters from closing around all of the participants or something. Or that Doflamingo starts off with Parasite already latched to them.
If you have to say something like "Luffy starts off in Gear 4th" in order to justify the win, then it's clear who actually wins.
You're going too far with this one. It's obvious Doflamingo was in far worse condition than Luffy but he was far from being near death door. Even for a top rated fighter in OP, It's quixotic to be fighting the way he did in canon for someone who's near death bed. Even likes of Whitebeard suffered to move properly after taking some serious damage. Whereas, Doflamingo fought without showing any visible sings of suffering from previously sustained damage. I mean there is no denying that it had a toll on him but there is a limit to how much damage he can ignore and fight back as if nothing happened. If the damage done was good enough to open the death doors for him then he wouldn't have fought as actively as he did nor would he look as vigorous as he did. Although I am not sure if it was because of the prior damage from Law, It appeared to be like he suffered way more from Luffy's kong gun than what he did from GN after performing surgery.
Fallacy, it's absolutely unnecessary for Zoro or any character for that matter to have more power than someone who can break free out of his strings. You talk as if it took everything Luffy has got to break out of his strings or something.Whereas, in reality, he seemingly didn't even struggle to break free. Breaking strings isn't the only option VS parasite. You can always choose to avoid rather than forcing yourself out of it. If you're skilled enough to see through his strings then you can obviously avoid it. It's because of that reason Doflamingo never attempted to use it on Luffy until when he was dragged to a level where he can't even more properly.
It's funny how you swept aside everything you've said about feats being everything in a debate but still compare Sanji's accomplishments to Zoro's with a straight face when Sanji has yet to show any feats of armament. Lets be real here, FMI opponents are utter garbage compared to Doflamingo's crew. Wadatsumi was nothing more than fodder before Zoro's opponent in same arc let alone Pica who came after two arcs. Hyouzou gone through the same monster transformation as Hody, Yet Zoro treated him like a Worm. All it took Zoro to own the man who was right next to Hody was one of his low end moves. Sanji, however, required an attack stronger than anything we've seen so far in the series from him, Just to beat someone weaker than Zoro's opponent. That too after when he took quite a beating from Jimbe. No one in his right mind would think about comparing those insects with the strongest of Doflamingo's crew. Should I remind you how a black armament less Jet pistol was all it took Luffy to break his tooth and to get rid of him from getting in his way?This should explain how low you're willing go to make Sanji look stronger than what manga insinuates, I know the truth hurts but it's time to accept the reality. Only thing that's still going on for Sanji to compare the him with Zoro is his pre time skip portrayal. If it isn't for that, Zoro absolutely molests Sanji, If you compare their post skip portrayal and feats.
Please, we aren't reading manga so badly that we'd think beating a fodder or two would be suffice to place a character far above someone who's portrayed to be on same level as him. The way how Zoro treated those characters is what made Zoro look more impressive. Even Oda heavily disagrees with you here. You remember it, right? There was a common spectator who witnessed their battles at PH. Yes, It's Tashigi, Guess who left her with a terrified/shocked face(However you see it) and made her wonder how strong the SH's have gotten? It's Zoro. Zoro left much better impression on someone who perfectly understands the difference b/w Mone and Vergo. It's Oda who had planned it to go the way it did in canon. So, if you want to blame anyone then blame the writer for hyping Zoro way more than Sanji.
We've been through this argument numerous times , I don't understand why you insist on posting same good old excuses again and again, even though they were countered like a 100 times already. List all of Zoro's opponents after TS and do the same with Sanji, Then you'll realize that you were wrong all along as Zoro's opponents are just as strong as if not stronger than people Sanji came across so far after TS. Regarding Fujitora argument, He was assaulted out of nowhere by Issho, he still forced his way out of the attack unlike certain someone who needs protection from Law. Let's stop taking things way out of proportion, Zoro wasn't panting neither was he on his knee because he overexerted himself to break free.
He simply shrugged off his attack after taking a deep breath. The stance he took was the resultant of the jump from the pit. He was perfectly fine in the next panel he was shown. That's a lot times better than getting your leg cracked by likes of Vergo and not being able to last more than a few seconds against Doflamingo, considering Doflamingo is substantially weaker than Fujitora when Vergo can't even be found in the realm that contains Fujitora. Moreover, it's seems like you're overlooking the fact that Zoro engaged Fujitora to a fight later on"Although it was off paneled" and came out without soo much as a dent on his body.
Yeah, Oda had him intercept Zoro because he wanted to create a pit near amphitheater to make populace of Dressrosa fall in it so that he can laugh it off in future, right? Or May be he wanted to use a weak character like Fujitora to own Zoro because Doflamingo would to be too strong for Zoro?
You're going too far with this one. It's obvious Doflamingo was in far worse condition than Luffy but he was far from being near death door. Even for a top rated fighter in OP, It's quixotic to be fighting the way he did in canon for someone who's near death bed. Even likes of Whitebeard suffered to move properly after taking some serious damage. Whereas, Doflamingo fought without showing any visible sings of suffering from previously sustained damage. I mean there is no denying that it had a toll in him but there is a limit to how much damage he can ignore and fight back as if nothing happened. If the damage done was good enough to open the death doors for him then he wouldn't have fought as actively as he did nor would he look as vigorous as he did. Although I am not sure if it was because of the prior damage from Law, It appeared to be like he suffered way more from Luffy's kong gun than what he did from GN after performing surgery.
Removing Doffy's damage to Luffy, Luffy was easily in the 90 percentile when he went up against a near dead Doflamingo. Luffy 100% fresh makes damn near no difference. And why would Luffy be in Gear 4th at the start of the fight? Then one can easily say the fight starts with Bird Cage 3 meters from closing around all of the participants or something. Or that Doflamingo starts off with Parasite already latched to them.
If you have to say something like "Luffy starts off in Gear 4th" in order to justify the win, then it's clear who actually wins.
I'd like to point out we still don't actually know at all how Doffy's Parasite is broken. It could be a feat of strength or it could as likely be a feat of will power.
Reasoning; Parasite is a move that infiltrates the body and manipulates it against it's owners will, that's all we know about Parasite. So if it's a move that essentially over powers someones will it stands to reason Doffy's will is traveling through his string into their body forcing them to act according to Doffy's will and it stands to reason then that a person with a strong enough will can reject the orders(IE being locked in place like Jozu and Sanji etc.) and a person with a strong will(like Luffy) could break out entirely. Honestly that's how I've always viewed how Parasite works and why Luffy despite being tired was able to break free, because it was his will over powering Doffy's will. You can disagree or agree if you'd like but it remains we don't know and Oda never addressed it so we're all speculating who could and couldn't break out of Parasite and how. And yes before you bother trying to retort with a snide derisive comment I do think Zoro has a greater will power than Jozu or Sanji, NO I don not know 100% whether he could break out of Parasite or not, if it is solely an attribute of physical strength then possibly not seeing as Jozu couldn't and he should be around the same level now or still slightly higher than Zoro.
Sorry for the block I couldn't really find a good place to break it up at.
I'd like to point out we still don't actually know at all how Doffy's Parasite is broken. It could be a feat of strength or it could as likely be a feat of will power.
Reasoning; Parasite is a move that infiltrates the body and manipulates it against it's owners will, that's all we know about Parasite. So if it's a move that essentially over powers someones will it stands to reason Doffy's will is traveling through his string into their body forcing them to act according to Doffy's will and it stands to reason then that a person with a strong enough will can reject the orders(IE being locked in place like Jozu and Sanji etc.) and a person with a strong will(like Luffy) could break out entirely. Honestly that's how I've always viewed how Parasite works and why Luffy despite being tired was able to break free, because it was his will over powering Doffy's will. You can disagree or agree if you'd like but it remains we don't know and Oda never addressed it so we're all speculating who could and couldn't break out of Parasite and how. And yes before you bother trying to retort with a snide derisive comment I do think Zoro has a greater will power than Jozu or Sanji, NO I don not know 100% whether he could break out of Parasite or not, if it is solely an attribute of physical strength then possibly not seeing as Jozu couldn't and he should be around the same level now or still slightly higher than Zoro.
Sorry for the block I couldn't really find a good place to break it up at.
I've seen this argument before and I must say that it's a good idea. Albeit the idea is favorable to some extent, this kind of ability doesn't fit in Doflamingo's move set tbh. I mean there is no authentic proof to support the concept of channeling will power 'not haki' via your abilities, let alone overwriting others will and controlling them similar to genjutsu. Now, I know haki is essentially will power, But I am talking about haki in conventional sense. I mean will power as in strong determination or however the hell people describe it. Not to mention this kind of ability sounds more like a magic trick than a fighting ability even for someone that can produce strings out of surroundings.I agree the mechanics behind parasite are unfathomable for our knowledge but I doubt it is as complicated as we think it is. Knowing Oda, it's more likely that he'd use one of simplest method possible. I tried to glean some details from what we've seen so far, and what I understood from it is that Doflamingo uses your basic puppetry method to control people akin to a marionette. He simply a
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and forcefully manipulates their movements. You can see him
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similar to a puppet master while controlling people via parasite. The essence of hand signs kind of defeats the idea of manipulating people with will power. Luffy's body while being controlled by Joker resembles a
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being controlled by the puppet master. Furthermore, the stance Luffy took, the way he reacted while breaking free and the way Doflaming reacted "
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?" support this idea even more.
Well, this is my analogy, it's not necessarily most accurate of the conclusions but it makes more sense than controlling people by overwriting their wills IMO. Regarding the method Luffy used to break free; Some believe it was because of brute force, some conclude that it's because of his will to never give up, some thought that it's because of sudden expansion in his size and some speculate that it's a COO thing. It could be anything. Though I believe "brute force" and "sudden expansion" arguments make most sense out of these.
EDIT: Jozu never made a visible attempt to break free btw. Therefore, we can't tell if he's incapable of breaking out of parasite.
Check my above reply to Toshi about this "Never doing it means they can't thing." There are tons of things could have done that were better than what they did do.
Luffy wasn't nearly as weakened as Doflamingo. The only major injuries that occurred to Luffy between Luffy and Law arriving at the palace and Gear 4 was inflicted by Doflamingo himself.
Oh bullshit. Luffy and Zoro were throwing aside buildings pre-skip, and you're telling me Doflamingo can't lug a 200 pound human being in front of him rapidly?
I can't even find the reply where you addressed him. Again I don't think it's no coincidence that the two strongest people he parasite he didn't freely control them.
Never tried to debate Luffy was as injured, I'm one of the people who claim DD was more hurt.
Never said he couldn't lug a human in front of him, not just as fast as Luffy can move in G4.
Removing Doffy's damage to Luffy, Luffy was easily in the 90 percentile when he went up against a near dead Doflamingo. Luffy 100% fresh makes damn near no difference. And why would Luffy be in Gear 4th at the start of the fight? Then one can easily say the fight starts with Bird Cage 3 meters from closing around all of the participants or something. Or that Doflamingo starts off with Parasite already latched to them.
If you have to say something like "Luffy starts off in Gear 4th" in order to justify the win, then it's clear who actually wins.
I only said that it would be an easy win if Luffy starts the fight using Gear 4th.. meaning, IMO, if let's say it was like a fight where Doffy stands on one side of the location, and the SH's on the other, then a "3.. 2.. 1.." goes off and "FIGHT" type of deal, if Luffy went straight into Gear 4th at that moment.. not saying at all that he HAS to start off IN G4..
I only say this because I think Nami can stand back planning a weather based attack, Usopp can be ready to snipe or starting to snipe various attacks in his arsenal, Robin I'm sure would use a long ranged style attack or at least be on the defense, Chopper can rush in, Sanji can rush in, Brook can rush in, Franky and Zoro both can choose to rush in or use a long range attack, while of course Doflamingo can rush in or use a long range attack as well, (or both, whichever he prefers since he has alot of options) but with all that happening at the start of the fight, that's Eight people/attacks that Doflamingo would have to attend to and deal with by either blocking or just completely negging, so Luffy (If he wanted to be as serious as can be) could easily go into Gear 4 with enough time.
Once in Gear 4 the onslaught of attacks is quick enough and strong enough to give Doflamingo a good fight. This is Luffy by himself.. so the SH's that are still fine can either sit back and wait to help if Luffy's G4 runs out and Doflamingo would already be weakened to a decent extent.. or they may very well have to deal with the problems that you already mentioned during the Luffy vs Doflamingo time, the string clone, and possibly using other SH's as puppets, etc..
All I'm saying is Doflamingo would lose. IMO..
However, the SH's can very well lose the lives of certain crew members during the process.. :/
Prepping G4 doesn't take forever stop reaching not to mention he can't use them as meat shields. All DD has done with higher level fighters is stop their movements, he can't freely control not to mention even if he could their bodies wouldn't be physically able to keep up with Luffy he'd reach DD before they could jump in the way to shield him.
Didn't doffy stretch sanji body for over heat like he stopped him from kicking and then stretched his body out like ginger bread man and tried to overheat him until law shambles etc? So that is invalid if that is the case (in terms of the whole he can only restrain ppl)
You mean there is just no way in hell Doflamingo doesn't get fodderized by Luffy and Zoro? Doflamingo was getting his ass kicked by Luffy and Law everytime they were together(red hawk, gamma knife, jet stamp, etc) and that was Luffy without using g4. He stands no chance against Luffy and Zoro. Luffy by himself is barely weaker than Doflamingo. Adding someone as powerful as Zoro alongside him and he stands no chance. Only extremely biased or retarded people who don't deserve to be argued against could think otherwise. That's why i don't even bother in debates here nowadays
You mean there is just no way in hell Doflamingo doesn't get fodderized by Luffy and Zoro? Doflamingo was getting his ass kicked by Luffy and Law everytime they were together(red hawk, gamma knife, jet stamp, etc) and that was Luffy without using g4. He stands no chance against Luffy and Zoro. Luffy by himself is barely weaker than Doflamingo. Adding someone as powerful as Zoro alongside him and he stands no chance. Only extremely biased or retarded people who don't deserve to be argued against could think otherwise. That's why i don't even bother in debates here nowadays
LOL you do realize Luffy needed the help of Law's gamma knife and help of other ally to defeat Doflamingo? Stop fanboying Luffy and Zoro...I am Luffy fan but let's talk for real.Zoro ain't gonna cover the amount of ally who wasted Doffy's time to make Luffy be able to use haki again.You are saying straight up bullshit right now...Luffy was fighting against injured Doffy who was repairing himself mid fight...you are just so wrong...LAW HAD A ROOM! A BLOODY ROOM!
