[Discussion] SH's vs Doffy

[Punk Hazard]

lmao ofcourse.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Right here. Let's talk about the speed right here. Doflamingo's arm was already arched back with Overheat produced. Law ran forward, threw a log, created Room, did Shambles, created another Room, and then swapped himself with Doflamingo. All of that was done before Doflamingo was able to bring his arm forward. For an idea of how fast Overheat is, it crossed several kilometers in seconds.

With all that speed, and with the Room encircling Doflamingo and reaching to the water below and with Doflamingo showing he can be affected by Shambles, what was stopping Law from swapping Doflamingo with some of the water below, placing Doffy underwater, instead of swapping himself with Doflamingo? And before anyone tries to say that Law couldn't use his powers on Seawater, he made it float when fighting Smoker and has cut through Seastone more than once using Room.

LMAO

you can't be serious. How long would it have taken him to do the former attack vs the latter. Do you know? Unless you can tell me then it's pointless. It would have been downright retarded of him to use the former. All he needed to do was punch a hole in Luffy, which should be much faster than doing an upper end attack for no good reason.

I can tell you. Because the answer is not long at all. The boulder was this close to the execution platform[

You must be registered for see links

] before Akainu even moved to charge up his attack. He could have charged up that same attack while giving Ace and Luffy the speech about Justice, or while taunting Ace about how WB is worthless, or while explaining why Magu is superior to Mera(during this scene in particular, his arm was already charged up on magma, the same way it was when he fired the meteors fist).

Yes, punching Luffy might have been faster, but that's not the point of the discussion. The argument is that characters have strong options they don't use all the time, but that doesn't mean they could not. That's why Doffy didn't use Parasite until the end of the fight: Plot and need for the story. If Oda had characters do all the best possible things, then Luffy would have died many, many times.

Do you understand what attack power is? Jozu made Kuzan bleed because he hit harder, nothing points to his Haki being stronger than Marco's or Vista's.

When on Earth did I say anything about Jozu when it comes to Haki? NOWHERE in that entire section of argument did I even mention Jozu. You're slipping.

WB's haki was absolute crap throughout the war, and now suddenly it would be so controlled and precise that he beheads Akainu?

....You're trolling right? WB's Haki made this possible:

You must be registered for see images

Are you reading over what you type? Slashes in this manga don't do much better than regular hits. Zoro can slice buildings like butter but when he lands an attack on an enemy, it won't even cut that deep.

For instance pillars behind Zoro being sliced, but the cut on Zoro isn't even deep enough to give him a scar.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

So you're saying Doflamingo can cut through people if he pleases, but Whitebeard can't?

There isn't some advantage to cutting then there is regular attacks this is One Piece, especially when it comes to WB who uses his quakes, his cutting attack would be that much more useless. Aren't you a Doflamingo fan, lmfao you should know this if you're wanking, his strings which sliced the meteor up like butter gave Sanji and the like superficial wounds.

It's not impossible to decapitate people you know. Hell, even Roger was executed by lopping off his head.

You are fooling yourself if you think WB would magically cut off Akainu's head. You've got the wrong manga here.

Magic has absolutely nothing to do with it. If a Sea King can take Shanks' arm, if Jack can take the legs and arms of Neko and Inu, nothing is stopping WB from taking Akainu's head if he tried.

No, it only makes sense the fastest guy gets there first. Which was Kizaru. Also that kick took Luffy out of the war if it weren't for Ivankovs hormones.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Of course the fastest guy will get there first. That doesn't matter because Akainu and Kuzan could have also gotten there and did more to put Luffy out of the war than Kizaru did. Those two didn't even try to go because Kizaru opted to. If Kizaru let Akainu go, he could have incinerated Luffy and Aokiji could have froze and then broke him.

Tell me, how would Ivankov's Hormones fix Luffy being buried in magma, or being shattered into ice cubes?

lmfao you think I'm having fun going through every little thing you spout and breaking it down?

Yes, because that's how debating works. I've noticed you haven't even attempted to touch the instances of Kizaru shooting people in the chest or otherwise, instead of shooting them through the head. You also haven't attempted to touch the instances of Lucci not killing a paralyzed or immobile Luffy.

No can do. A couple of them will suffice.

Not even, considering many of the scenarios involve different concepts. Debunking one doesn't debunk all. The fact of the matter is you can't debunk them, especially the ones involving paralyzed Luffy and Kizaru, but you have to keep up this bravado.

I'm already tired of this argument, can clearly see its heading no where.

"I'm not winning so I'm taking my ball and going home."

Because there was no reason to use it in those instances. When he could have used it, he didn't. Perhaps because he was too caught up and was being pressured in combat? Maybe the same reason Law couldn't easily shambles Doflamingo underwater or something?

Doflamingo wasn't pressured until Gear 4th. You're also doing a lot of guessing.

Ok? Parasite is something that is very hard to notice if you don't know its coming? How about that?

That doesn't change that Doflamingo can catch people while they are attacking and while he is actively blocking an attack.

Lmfao feats for what?

Do you even know what parasite is? Is it some magical thing that is unavoidable or something? How am I even supposed to pull up feats for someone handling something so specific? The parasite strings are very hard to see, that doesn't mean they aren't there and that something isn't indeed being attached to your body, it's as simple as there being intel on it or not, there is nothing that is unavoidable, that wouldn't even make sense.

Luffy has feats of being able to break out of Parasite. Powerscaling also can act as an argument for being able to break out of Parasite.

Lmao, not sure if some people on here are serious. :eww: There are only two instances in the entire fight when Luffy and Law truly worked together. Guess what we have in return?[

You must be registered for see links

] [

You must be registered for see links

] [

You must be registered for see links

]

I like that you conveniently left out how all of that was only possible due to Room's teleportive abilities. Remove Shambles and tell me, would any of those scenarios have happened?

There is noway Doflamingo is doing shit to Zoro while dealing with Luffy and vice versa let alone him going as far as manipulating the rest of the crew. Though I can agree that Luffy's crew in general is inferior to Doffy's.

As I mentioned before, Doflamingo has shown the ability to catch multiple people, to catch people while they're charging, and to catch people while he's defending. If Zoro, Sanji, and Luffy charge him all at once, he can catch Zoro and Sanji while blocking Luffy. If it's just Luffy and Zoro, same deal.

People also say this like Doflamingo is just gonna stand there and let them charge him, as opposed to diving at once as they charge and intercepting them in the middle of their charge.

back at it again riker with the most horrible comparisons. G4 luffy by himself is enough for doffy to pay attention to him for a 1v1 battle. he doesnt have time to go control other Sh's. and zoro + luffy in G4 its done but let me be somewhat biased like u and say doffy still lives, he has to pay full attention to both luffy and zoro he has no time to pay attention to anyone else. and sanji is no joke as he can get easy hits on doffy when zoro and luffy manage him. if doffy tries to parasite others hes leaving himself to be hit by the heavy hitters.

Luffy would never start the fight off with Gear 4th right away. With Gear 2 and 3, which Doffy could dodge around with busted organs, not much will be done to Doflamingo to actually strap him for time.

The only way Gear 4th comes into play before Doflamingo has time to capture the weaker Strawhats in Parasite is if Luffy busts out Gear 4th from the very beginning, which is out of character. If we're giving Luffy the leeway to go out of character and use Gear 4th right away because he knows he needs it, then we have to do the same Doflamingo; at that point, I can just as easily say Doflamingo would attack during the transformation process with something like Off White.

Doflamingo caught a charging Jozu and an attacking Sanji with a flick of his wrist. He can catch people who are moving very fast, and can catch people while blocking attacks. If Zoro, Luffy, and Sanji all charge at him, he can block Luffy's attack while catching Sanji and Zoro in their tracks.

 

[chopstickchakra]

I forgot Oars was able to control them and force them onto his side to fight against themselves instead. Good point.

I forgot Doffy was anywhere near as durable as the legendary Oars. Let alone an Oars upgraded with Luffy's shadow.

I've not said they win simply because they have more numbers, if you can find where I said that was the reason they'd win do show me.

Who said he would do nothing? You're projecting again. You get further when you actually argue the points stated and not the presumed intention behind them you place on them. Doffy would try to stop Luffy from breaking parasite but he wasn't quick enough to keep up with G2 or G4 so why with Zoro and Franky running distraction/interference and his superior speed would he not be able to break some members out of parasite then allowing them to help block Doffy from blocking him? Rather than snidely deride the idea how about justifying why Luffy with the help of 2 crew members couldn't free 1 member from parasite then use that member to help free another and so on, and at the speed Luffy goes it wouldn't take long once he got moving.

FYI your condescension isn't actually a legit counter despite how much you believe it to be.

 

[Punk Hazard]

I forgot Doffy was anywhere near as durable as the legendary Oars. Let alone an Oars upgraded with Luffy's shadow.

Didn't Pre-Skip Sanji deflect his punch and pre-skip Luffy break his spine? Yeah, he's not as strong or as durable as Doflamingo, who got his organs busted apart twice and was still about to kill Luffy.

I've not said they win simply because they have more numbers, if you can find where I said that was the reason they'd win do show me.

General post to all of the people who are saying "SHs win" just because of outnumbering, which has been the vast majority of posts here.

Who said he would do nothing? You're projecting again. You get further when you actually argue the points stated and not the presumed intention behind them you place on them.[/QUOTE]
This is what you said.

Luffy may be able to break Doffy's parasite grip on his crew if he can reach the threads in them

The only way Luffy breaks Parasite from all seven people if Doflamingo just stands there and does nothing as Luffy tries to figure out how and then starts doing it.

Doffy would try to stop Luffy from breaking parasite but he wasn't quick enough to keep up with G2 or G4

Doflamingo dodging a Gear 2 attack and blitzing Gear 2 Luffy with busted organs[

You must be registered for see links

]
Doflamingo dodges Gear 4 with a speed blitz Luffy couldn't track [

You must be registered for see links

]

so why with Zoro and Franky running distraction/interference and his superior speed would he not be able to break some members out of parasite then allowing them to help block Doffy from blocking him?

Because Doffy can simply have Shadow Jokers do the same to them or restraining them. If this becomes a game of Luffy just busting out SHs while Doflamingo entraps the ones already free over and over, then that's just Doflamingo toying with them. I also like that it took Luffy to use Gear 4 to seriously contend with Doflamingo while his organs were busted, but you think ****ing Franky can do anything to keep Dofalmingo busy enough to keep him from engaging Luffy. Plus there's still this nonsensical "Franky won't be affected by Parasite" drivel.

Rather than snidely deride the idea how about justifying why Luffy with the help of 2 crew members couldn't free 1 member from parasite then use that member to help free another and so on, and at the speed Luffy goes it wouldn't take long once he got moving.

1. Since when is Franky immune to Parasite? I'm still waiting on that.

2. The fact that it's ****ing FRANKY, who a Shadow Joker can easily keep busy while Doflamingo engages Luffy while Parasiting Zoro?

 

[chopstickchakra]

Didn't Pre-Skip Sanji deflect his punch and pre-skip Luffy break his spine? Yeah, he's not as strong or as durable as Doflamingo, who got his organs busted apart twice and was still about to kill Luffy.


General post to all of the people who are saying "SHs win" just because of outnumbering, which has been the vast majority of posts here.

Who said he would do nothing? You're projecting again. You get further when you actually argue the points stated and not the presumed intention behind them you place on them.

This is what you said.



The only way Luffy breaks Parasite from all seven people if Doflamingo just stands there and does nothing as Luffy tries to figure out how and then starts doing it.


Doflamingo dodging a Gear 2 attack and blitzing Gear 2 Luffy with busted organs[

You must be registered for see links

]
Doflamingo dodges Gear 4 with a speed blitz Luffy couldn't track [

You must be registered for see links

]



Because Doffy can simply have Shadow Jokers do the same to them or restraining them. If this becomes a game of Luffy just busting out SHs while Doflamingo entraps the ones already free over and over, then that's just Doflamingo toying with them. I also like that it took Luffy to use Gear 4 to seriously contend with Doflamingo while his organs were busted, but you think ****ing Franky can do anything to keep Dofalmingo busy enough to keep him from engaging Luffy. Plus there's still this nonsensical "Franky won't be affected by Parasite" drivel.



1. Since when is Franky immune to Parasite? I'm still waiting on that.

2. The fact that it's ****ing FRANKY, who a Shadow Joker can easily keep busy while Doflamingo engages Luffy while Parasiting Zoro?[/QUOTE]

I never said Franky is immune I said there is a chance he may be immune on his face since Parasite has only been shown to take effect once penetrating the skin, since Franky's metal Parasite may not be able to penetrate him the way it does organic material.

You continue to ignore what was actually said and instead argue points and subtext you have assigned, this is what I said about it
"Franky may not get caught in Parasite depending on how his robotic body and steel parts react(Doffy would have to know and attach the strong to his back before Parasite should, keyword being should, take effect) not that Franky alone would be a significant boost."

The point I was making which you ignored or missed, wasn't that Franky can take out Doffy, but that his added presence helps Luffy and Zoro and each subsequent SH helps them also. Doffy makes 1 shadow Joker and parasites all the others, Franky doesn't work then Doffy either has to dodge/fight him or make another shadow Joker so he can stop Luffy from breaking more Parasite strings. If he makes a 2nd Shadow Joker then the one fighting Zoro becomes weaker and allows him to push back easier, if Luffy frees one more SH then Doffy has to weaken his Shadow Jokers again to make another and then Zoro starts to gain the edge over his clone freeing him to help buy Luffy time by attacking Doffy.

 

[Punk Hazard]

I never said Franky is immune I said there is a chance he may be immune on his face since Parasite has only been shown to take effect once penetrating the skin, since Franky's metal Parasite may not be able to penetrate him the way it does organic material.

That was anime only. Proven false when Luffy snapped out of Parasite and Doflamingo said "He broke the threads."

Not to mention Doffy's strings can pierce steel and Frank's back is made of flesh.

The point I was making which you ignored or missed, wasn't that Franky can take out Doffy, but that his added presence helps Luffy and Zoro and each subsequent SH helps them also.

I got that point and I argued against it. Franky isn't distracting Doflamingo long enough. Not only can Doflamingo's Shadow Joker simply charge at Franky, but Doflamingo can literally just fly past Franky. His presence does nothing because it can be ignored or circumvented via Shadow Jokers.

Each subsequent SH does not actually help, but just increase the number of meatshields Doffy can create. Including Franky.

Doffy makes 1 shadow Joker and parasites all the others, Franky doesn't work then

Why is this "Franky doesn't work" thing still an argument, really?

Doffy either has to dodge/fight him or make another shadow Joker so he can stop Luffy from breaking more Parasite strings.

Or speed blitz past Franky, who won't be able to do shit about it, and send Luffy flying with Athlete. Or have the controlled SHs attack at Luffy as he approaches in order to stall Luffy's maneuvers while speed blitzing past Franky.

If he makes a 2nd Shadow Joker then the one fighting Zoro becomes weaker

You literally, completely made that up.

and allows him to push back easier,

Zoro's attention on the Shadow Joker leaves him susceptible to being caught in Parasite.

if Luffy frees one more SH then Doffy has to weaken his Shadow Jokers again

*CinemaSins voice* what?

 

[chopstickchakra]

That was anime only. Proven false when Luffy snapped out of Parasite and Doflamingo said "He broke the threads."

Not to mention Doffy's strings can pierce steel and Frank's back is made of flesh.


I got that point and I argued against it. Franky isn't distracting Doflamingo long enough. Not only can Doflamingo's Shadow Joker simply charge at Franky, but Doflamingo can literally just fly past Franky. His presence does nothing because it can be ignored or circumvented via Shadow Jokers.

Each subsequent SH does not actually help, but just increase the number of meatshields Doffy can create. Including Franky.


Why is this "Franky doesn't work" thing still an argument, really?



Or speed blitz past Franky, who won't be able to do shit about it, and send Luffy flying with Athlete. Or have the controlled SHs attack at Luffy as he approaches in order to stall Luffy's maneuvers while speed blitzing past Franky.


You literally, completely made that up.


Zoro's attention on the Shadow Joker leaves him susceptible to being caught in Parasite.



*CinemaSins voice* what?

You can't have 100% of your power spread amongst multiple clones it's fiction 101. If he spends 10 energy to make 1 shadow joker he needs to do the same for the next. The more he makes the less energy he has.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Doffy can only make 1 Shadow Joker at a time.

 

[Bogard]

Too much Doffy lovers in this thread
Luffy and Zoro fodderizes him. No need for anyone else

 

[Punk Hazard]

You can't have 100% of your power spread amongst multiple clones it's fiction 101. If he spends 10 energy to make 1 shadow joker he needs to do the same for the next. The more he makes the less energy he has.

I see zero evidence to support this.

 

[Dęvîa Puęrî]

Too much Doffy lovers in this thread
Luffy and Zoro fodderizes him. No need for anyone else

Lol not even

Zoro is above Sanji but not that much so he would get the Sanji treatment -:- prove to me otherwise

Cuz all zoro has done post timeskip

Is fight woman who doesn't fight

Fight a guy who does not like fighting close quarters


Not to mention majority of the straw hats do not have Ariel attacks and if they do they r irrelevant as doffy was able to easily keep up with gear 2nd with busted organs which none of straw hats bar Sanji and zoro (idk if he has aerial attacks) can even remotely fight or throw an attack at that speed

Your underestimating a full powered not gamma knife awakened doffy also U r downplaying all that law did as he was crucial to that fight and none of the straw hats could do what he did to doffy

 

[Bogard]

Lol not even

Zoro is above Sanji but not that much so he would get the Sanji treatment -:- prove to me otherwise

I'm not gonna enter the Sanji topic that you guys always like to bring whenever Zoro is concerned eventhough they are light years to one another featwise....

So i'd just say that Luffy is barely weaker than Doflamingo. Doffy can't handle Luffy and Law together(he was getting his ass kicked everytime they were together through, red hawk, gamma knife, etc). Zoro is barely weaker than Law by feats and most likely stronger if he goes all out, and Zoro is better in close combat, swordsmanship, fire power, physical strength and durability than Law, so not only Doffy will even have a harder time to overpower him like he he did with Law, but he isn't allowed to be hit by Zoro's high end moves that could **** him up even harder. Now add something as powerful as G4 fighting alongside and Doffy stands no chance, prove me wrong?

 

[Punk Hazard]

I'm not gonna enter the Sanji topic that you guys always like to bring whenever Zoro is concerned eventhough they are light years to one another featwise....

So i'd just say that Luffy is barely weaker than Doflamingo. Doffy can't handle Luffy and Law together(he was getting his ass kicked everytime they were together through, red hawk, gamma knife, etc).Zoro is barely weaker than Law by feats and most likely stronger if he goes all out, and Zoro is better in close combat, swordsmanship, fire power, physical strength and durability than Law, so not only Doffy will even have a harder time to overpower him like he he did with Law, but he isn't allowed to be hit by Zoro's high end moves that could **** him up even harder, prove me wrong?

Except Luffy and Zoro lack Room. There is no Red Hawk, Gamma Knife, etc., it's just Gamma Knife and Red Hawk. And those two attacks only landed through Room. Zoro and Luffy, as a tag team, won't accomplish the same thing that Law and Luffy did because the removal of Law removes the thing that made the latter's teamwork work to nail attacks.

Law has also shown superior speed, stamina, and firepower than Zoro has.

 

[A v i]

I like that you conveniently left out how all of that was only possible due to Room's teleportive abilities. Remove Shambles and tell me, would any of those scenarios have happened? As I mentioned before, Doflamingo has shown the ability to catch multiple people, to catch people while they're charging, and to catch people while he's defending. If Zoro, Sanji, and Luffy charge him all at once, he can catch Zoro and Sanji while blocking Luffy. If it's just Luffy and Zoro, same deal. People also say this like Doflamingo is just gonna stand there and let them charge him, as opposed to diving at once as they charge and intercepting them in the middle of their charge.

In short, anyone who's not Law/Luffy cannot see through Doflamingo's strings or avoid them and no one but Law along side Luffy can corner Doflamingo with their move set because it's impossible to battle Doflamingo without teleportation. Is that what you want us to believe?

 

[Punk Hazard]

In short, anyone who's not Law/Luffy cannot see through Doflamingo's strings or avoid them and no one but Law along side Luffy can corner Doflamingo with their move set because it's impossible to battle Doflamingo without teleportation. Is that what you want us to believe?

Absolutely incorrect, but stellar analytical abilities.

Anyone on the SHs who below Luffy's level and who lack the feats or powerscaling benefit to break the strings, which is everyone but Luffy, cannot see through Doflamingo's strings or avoid them.

No one on Luffy's squad can offer the teleportive abilities that created the chance for Luffy to land Red Hawk.

If Luffy isn't in Gear 4th, he can't compete with Doffy in the long run.

None of the Strawhats have shown the ability to break the strings, bar Luffy. Nor have any of them shown to be immune or able to avoid them.

The team of Law and Luffy couldn't defeat Doffy on their own, and that team is stronger than the team of Luffy and Zoro.

 

[loj]

For once I agree with Riker...Alone Luffy and Zoro would not be enough to defeat Doflamingo since Law was crucial in injuring Doffy,hence even with G4,Luffy wasn't able to defeat Doffy without a pause.

Too much Doffy lovers in this thread
Luffy and Zoro fodderizes him. No need for anyone else

Just no >_>

 

[Venomous Cobra]

SH would most likely lose, people forget that gama knife had a lot of effects on doffy at the beginning, and I personally don't see any sh aside from luffy doing that much damage going by feats. Doffy was literary stomping both law and luffy until g4. Having said this though, I think that if luffy starts with g4, and then wrecks doffy around for 10 minutes, then they can stall him for enough time for him to go into the mode again, so it depends on how it works out.

I doubt doffy would use the strings to control the SH knowing that he won't have time to control them and block attacks at the same time.

 

[-Akuma-]

You must be registered for see images

My face when I see people trying to debate DD winning this

 

[Punk Hazard]

You must be registered for see images

My face when I see people trying to debate DD winning this

Disprove it then

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

You must be registered for see images

My face when I see people trying to debate DD winning this

The manga is over 70% done and people still think that the SHs are weak enough to lose to DD. It's pathetic tbh.

 

[-Akuma-]

Disprove it then

Disprove what? All I've seen you is post scans of Law and Luffy not fighting DD together claiming that DD could handle a 2 on 1. Not to mention all of these scans are Luffy not in G4, DD is having his hands full with Luffy alone in G4, adding Zoro is overkill.