Obito's Realism Vs Naruto's Idealism

[MMXVIII Uchiha]

Also Sasuke's plan was better than both theirs tbh

 

[KingHashirama]

What is Idealism?

The attitude of a person who believes that it is possible to live according to very high standards of behavior and honesty

What is Realism?

The quality of a person who understands what is real and possible in a particular situation and is able to deal with problems in an effective and practical way


Why is it that people such as Hashirama/Naruto are considered Idealists.. when their ideas are based on the reality.. and the fact that they have accepted reality?

Because people believe "peace, harmony and etc".. are all idealistic ways.. However, "war and etc" are all realistic ways.. When their thinking is far from the truth.

The real Idealists of Naruto-verse.
Madara, Obito, Nagato. Why are they idealists? Because their "plans" were simply far from dealing with the reality and hypocritical in most of the way.

2 of them wanted people to live in some sort of a dream land.. while the reality is that, doing that doesn't bring peace, but simply stopping people from living in reality.

The other one had some thinking that he can go around causing pain, and people would magically understand each other and then form short term peace, and then back to war.. reality is that people already expereince pain in different ways without him even going around destroying villages. Nagato was a naive idealist.



The reason Naruto and Hashirama would be realists.

Naruto's answer to Nagato's question was.. that he won't kill Nagato. Him not killing Nagato became the answer that freed Nagato from the hatred that engulfed him. Thats not being idealistic.. thats real shit. As many humans work in similar manner. When somebody chooses to be the bigger man, your perception on the situation starts to change, and inevitable lead you to becoming a different person. Naruto accepted what Nagato had done, he didn't forgive Nagato.. however, due to him wanting to remove Nagato's hatred, he chose to spare Nagato which showed Nagato the right way. REALITY.


Hashirama, the man that Madara called a hypocrite. In reality is probably the realist person in the series. He faced warring clans, and so on. What did he do? He started uniting senju blood groups, then made friends with his rival, then formed a village, and then made treaties with other clans who then moved into the village. He found a real solution to the real problem at hand, he didn't go start dreaming about putting people to sleep.. no. The man after all did say in the Gokage meeting, that he believed that their peace wouldn't last forever... however ,nontheless he had a dream that somewhere along the path Shinobi will stand united.

Naruto and Hashirama, understand that peace can't be made by 1 individual, but by people understanding each other. Which is something you can only trust on others for. You can implement systems that can lead you closer to way, but in the end its all up to the ones who will come after you.

illusion of peace, isn't true peace. I would rather live my life, rather than sleep and imagine about peace, while the reality being far from it.


Purpose of my post:

Naruto's way is the rational way. And in reality the man isn't a naive little idealist.. but someone who is willing to change things while staying in the reality of the world.

What? You aren't being tortured. Your living in a perfect dream world with no pain.
The only obstacle to obitos plan was people that were trying to prevent it because they didn't want the world in it..

Let's be real here, Infinite Tsukuyomi was a better plan.

Can you guys convince me that it was bad?

 

[-immortal-]

Obito is not a realist. Naruto might be an idealist, but at least he made his "idealism" a reality.

And obito wanted to turn "reality" into "dreams" (ideas)

Mind=blown

 

[TenseiganFTW]

What? You aren't being tortured. Your living in a perfect dream world with no pain.
The only obstacle to obitos plan was people that were trying to prevent it because they didn't want the world in it..

Let's be real here, Infinite Tsukuyomi was a better plan.

Can you guys convince me that it was bad?

Yes becuase they knew they had to kill innocents to achieve their plan.Why is Madara a villain then?
Bye.

 

[Illuminater]

Yes becuase they knew they had to kill innocents to achieve their plan.Why is Madara a villain then?
Bye.

Naruto also had to kill people to achieve his plan to. Your point?
I remember when Obito was trying to demoralize Naruto in the war and Naruto said that he's going to stick with his plan, and Obito said he's going to stick with his.
Obito's achieves TRUE peace
Naruto's does not.

Naruto didn't really achieve peace. Eventually it's going to go away. You thought the NarutoVerse is some ride in the sunset fairy tale? I doubt kishimoto is going to do something like that.

 

[KingHashirama]

Naruto also had to kill people to achieve his plan to. Your point?
I remember when Obito was trying to demoralize Naruto in the war and Naruto said that he's going to stick with his plan, and Obito said he's going to stick with his.
Obito's achieves TRUE peace
Naruto's does not.

Naruto didn't really achieve peace. Eventually it's going to go away. You thought the NarutoVerse is some ride in the sunset fairy tale? I doubt kishimoto is going to do something like that.

So you sleeping at night, and dreaming about a vacation = True Vacation

But going there in reality, by working hard = False Vacation

????

 

[Gerkak]

So you sleeping at night, and dreaming about a vacation in = True Vacation

But going there in reality, by working hard = False Vacation

????

Well to be fair you never wake up from the infinite tsukuyomi so it wouldn't do to act as if it is an ordinary dream. And in reality you can work hard to go to the vacation and on the day you are to go to it an accident happens and you die. That can happen, there is also the possibility that reality can be considered a dream too.

 

[TenseiganFTW]

Naruto also had to kill people to achieve his plan to. Your point?
I remember when Obito was trying to demoralize Naruto in the war and Naruto said that he's going to stick with his plan, and Obito said he's going to stick with his.
Obito's achieves TRUE peace
Naruto's does not.

Naruto didn't really achieve peace. Eventually it's going to go away. You thought the NarutoVerse is some ride in the sunset fairy tale? I doubt kishimoto is going to do something like that.

A police kills a criminal.
Madara killed innocents and Naruto protected the rest....
Madara is a murderer Naruto is a saviour.
Good bye.

 

[Wparker6804]

Obito criticised Naruto for living in a fantasy.... but in response to embracing reality's sorrow he wanted to *cough cough* live in a fantasy. Kindah hypocritical.

But ignoring that flaw, Naruto. I'm extreemely pessamistic about a lot of things due to me trying to be balanced, fair & unbiased but even then there's still room for optimism. It just doesn't mean or amount to much without action--and Naruto understood that. Obito wanted to give in.

 

[Illuminater]

A police kills a criminal.
Madara killed innocents and Naruto protected the rest....
Madara is a murderer Naruto is a saviour.
Good bye.

We;re talking about Obito you know. And if you actually read the manga you'd realize that IT can be achieved without killing people. It's ust the word didn't want it.

A hero might have to kill in order to achieve peace.

That's why he's the coolest guy

 

[Gerkak]

Obito criticised Naruto for living in a fantasy.... but in response to embracing reality's sorrow he wanted to *cough cough* live in a fantasy. Kindah hypocritical.

But ignoring that flaw, Naruto. I'm extreemely pessamistic about a lot of things due to me trying to be balanced, fair & unbiased but even then there's still room for optimism. It just doesn't mean or amount to much without action--and Naruto understood that. Obito wanted to give in.

Indeed obito was hypocritical but that doesn't change the fact that naruto offered no solution, no answer, nothing. The only reason why war hasn't broken out is because naruto and sasuke can't be challenged by anyone. After their eventual death war will return in fact it won't be long until people start to view them as demons as kaguya was viewed.

Naruto keeps saying it is his ninja way and all that but what has he done, the peace they currently enjoy has more to do with his power than his words or love. Nothing naruto has done that hogoromo, ashura and hashirama haven't done all of them failed. Naruto only makes excuses. Obito saw that the world system wasn't working and wanted an alternative, flawed though it was.

 

[Arian]

IT is the real deal. if i was there i would have fought naruto and sided with obit. cause IT is real peace.... there will always be war..

 

[Illuminater]

IT is the real deal. if i was there i would have fought naruto and sided with obit. cause IT is real peace.... there will always be war..

Exactly.

 

[ninjarasengan]

Indeed obito was hypocritical but that doesn't change the fact that naruto offered no solution, no answer, nothing. The only reason why war hasn't broken out is because naruto and sasuke can't be challenged by anyone. After their eventual death war will return in fact it won't be long until people start to view them as demons as kaguya was viewed.

Naruto keeps saying it is his ninja way and all that but what has he done, the peace they currently enjoy has more to do with his power than his words or love. Nothing naruto has done that hogoromo, ashura and hashirama haven't done all of them failed. Naruto only makes excuses. Obito saw that the world system wasn't working and wanted an alternative, flawed though it was.

So the best solution was the genocide of the human race and what ever animals are susceptible to IT? People keep talking about how short term Naruto's solution is...but how is the alternative better when there is no way for a new generation?

 

[HENI]

Naruto's plan never succeeded.

 

[KingHashirama]

Well to be fair you never wake up from the infinite tsukuyomi so it wouldn't do to act as if it is an ordinary dream. And in reality you can work hard to go to the vacation and on the day you are to go to it an accident happens and you die. That can happen, there is also the possibility that reality can be considered a dream too.

It is still an illusion.

There is also a possibility that Madara decides he doesn't like you, and decides to kill you while you're in IT.

Indeed obito was hypocritical but that doesn't change the fact that naruto offered no solution, no answer, nothing. The only reason why war hasn't broken out is because naruto and sasuke can't be challenged by anyone.

War happened during a time where Hashirama couldn't be challenged by anyone either... it has nothing to do with whether Sasuke or Naruto can be challenged by anyone or not. They both can be assassinated via poison and so on. Both can be diseased.

 

[Avani]

Tbh im more of a realist than i am an idealist. I know it's good to be optimistic. But majority of these optimist are naive.

A person who's a realist may be seen as pessimistic at times. But the truth is they have a clearer understanding of how things work. They see reality for what it really is.

But naruto on the other hand is a idealist, he believes in fabrications. His kind see's realty for what they want it to be and not for what it is.

This idealistic mindset gives them a drive for change but at the same time being delsuional makes them vulnerable.

So whos approach would you take??

Obito's Realism or Naruto's Idealism??

Living like vegetables while trapped in a dream world- that's escapism rather than realism... Obito was not ready to accept the tragic turns of events and their gravity and was trying to run from it. He knew better and yet convinced himself that it would fix his universe. Their chakra and their life may be being sapped away slowly but people would not feel it and die while dreaming about their fanatasies- though the idea does have certain attraction if you have given up on the living world already and don't want to put up with daily struggles..

 

[MAN OF SIN]

Living like vegetables while trapped in a dream world- that's escapism rather than realism... Obito was not ready to accept the tragic turns of events and their gravity and was trying to run from it. He knew better and yet convinced himself that it would fix his universe. Their chakra and their life may be being sapped away slowly but people would not feel it and die while dreaming about their fanatasies- though the idea does have certain attraction if you have given up on the living world already and don't want to put up with daily struggles..

I doubt they would have died since they were connected the God Tree's life energy like old Madara was. In which case Obito's plan had its merits, but like I said on the first page he went at it in an idiotic way.

 

[DominiqueX]

I'll go with Obito and Madara.
Naruto is a naive dumbass who couldn't achieve peace like he promised.

 

[Gerkak]

It is still an illusion.

There is also a possibility that Madara decides he doesn't like you, and decides to kill you while you're in IT.

That is unlikely to happen, what reason would he have to just kill someone after achieving his goals?

War happened during a time where Hashirama couldn't be challenged by anyone either... it has nothing to do with whether Sasuke or Naruto can be challenged by anyone or not. They both can be assassinated via poison and so on. Both can be diseased.

Indeed they can but it would be difficult would it not? Admit it their power is a deterrent for war, lets assume they died after releasing IT, what do you think would happen? War would break out after 10-30 years. Naruto has not brought about any system that guarantees peace he is as much a failure as his predecessors.