Is suicide a sin?
- Thread starter Melanin
- Start date
Ansatsuken
Active member
Awards
You mind only having a picture/thinking/focus on this world only but you failed to look at my reasoning here.
Yes one baby was given a life by God and second after the baby was born, the baby die. But the baby life not stop there buddy. In Islam, Allah in Arab(mean God in English) will take the baby into afterlife, after world, heaven or eternal world whatever you want to call it.
Thats mean what God did is bring the baby into life/created him, put him inside the story/history/list of creatures that exist and if the baby die after being born, the baby already became one life/living being, he/she exist and instead living inside this earth, God chose the baby to enter the other world(afterlife).
Even though they're alive for a second and die after, they will not gone/disappeared from existence. Its look like God is cruel bcus not giving them a chance to live in earth but what is better than a place that you can live forever. Riker dont like this idea tho.
The thing you need to understand first before ranting. In Islam everything will die, old or young and in various ways. They will not became a waste of life.
Atheist dont believe about after life and human will assimilate with nature after they die they believe in but religious people believe it as a compensation after they die. A journey of life.
You talked about free will but you still unable to defeat and turn off death from exist and it will come for you sooner or later. Try using your free will to remove death from our existance first. Can you?
When talking about Free Will, you must understand what its mean.
free will
noun
1.
the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.
synonyms: self-determination, freedom of choice, autonomy, liberty, independence More
Think deeper at the meaning. Death control by God doesnt mean it destroying your free will. Thats why I questioning you "can you control death or prevent it from happen/exist?"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I post this before
"To find out where the creatures die, Allah has created Angels Arham will be instructed to enter the sperm in the mother's womb with the dust of the earth and will know where he was going to die and that is where later he is doomed to die.".
Death is part of nature. The thing is, you never know when you will die or how long you will live? But God know. Let say you visit/walk/stay at the place you will die one day many times. Be it your working place or your home or your favorite road etc etc. If the time still not arrive, you will not meet death yet. Let say you will die by machine accident in your working place. Until the time come, you already used the same machine many times in your life. You never know how you will die until that day.
You can have free will and effect many things but not death or how you will die.
God not created all that negative human but human themselves chose their own path way. That negative thing is one of the concept of life God created to test human.
God not created one path way dude. human is giving many path ways and outcomes by God and every path way have their own outcome. And here your mind and Willpower will assist you. If the person choose to become murderer rather than police, it was one of the path way he/she choose to be and God already knew the outcome. God gave you free will to chose your own fate/outcome/destiny actually.
The truth is God not control what human with Will want to be. God for the most part actually already knew the outcome of every path ways the person chose excluding death bcus no person ever decide how they want to die.
One word in Quran:-
Surah Ar-Ra'd
Verse 13:11
"SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
For each one are successive [angels] before and behind him who protect him by the decree of Allah . Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves. And when Allah intends for a people ill, there is no repelling it. And there is not for them besides Him any patron."
Who need to change first using his/her own freewill? Its human and not God. How you want to get another outcome if you stayed at the same place?
If you chose and stayed as a killer, you forever stayed as a killer if you dont want to change your path way.
Already knew=/=control
Last edited:
Punk Hazard
Active member
Awards
Pukkake Pokayo
Guest
Natsu Shazneel
Banned
Awards
for the religious, yes, and in the religious sense, yes
how can you ask this question to atheists without getting a direct no since they obviously reject the idea of such a concept to begin with
what's this thread even supposed to accomplish
ur asking the wrong question imo
would be a much more interesting discussion if you made it an ethical discussion
how can you ask this question to atheists without getting a direct no since they obviously reject the idea of such a concept to begin with
what's this thread even supposed to accomplish
ur asking the wrong question imo
would be a much more interesting discussion if you made it an ethical discussion
TenseiganFTW
Active member
Suicide is not good.Ofc some things in this world are hard to pass but we have to move on and never give up.
There are so many positive things especially food and drinking and i love to stay with people who are important to me.Ofc suicide is an act of being ungrateful to God becuase he gave you a gift and that's your life.Also i wont talk about religious views here at all but the one who wants to commit suicide shouldn't forget about his/her mother.She grew him up,she made her body as a vessel for that person,suicide would show how ungrateful someone is towards his/her parents sacrifice.
Last edited:
I understood oh so well about the never ending lifespan in the afterlife and your reasoning before I even posted.
So, a newborn child whose life were taken away for a reasoning that made no sense is given a one way ticket to heaven without ever doing a single thing in this world? So, God decided that He should create countless of newborn only to kill them so they can be sent to heaven while others have to live through this life? Newborn who dies are apparently handpicked because for some reason they are special? Inb4 "they are special because they have never done a thing" - how can newborn do a thing when they were "taken" to heaven before they can even do a thing. Also, a newborn who is not a Muslim are bound by hell, correct?
Inb4 "they are pure therefore they are not bound by hell"
Give me verses where it says that they are guaranteed paradise.
It's not only in Islam, in this world everything will die.
It's not only in Islam, most religion has an afterlife.
If you were a former atheist, you will understand why atheist do not believe in any of that.
An individual who was not born a Muslim are bound to populate hell - a Muslim (who did not committed suicide and other extreme sins) regardless of what they will do, will one day enter heaven after they finished with their time in hell, correct? Regardless the kindness a non-Muslim do, they are bound by hell - despite being born and raised a certain religion. They believe in God with all their hearts, but because it is not the right God, they are bound to be in hell, correct? Some will argue that "they never tried to find the truth" but a Muslim who was born a Muslim has no right to say a thing unless they went through those stages from atheism to their newfound religion. A Muslim is born a Muslim, they believed in Islam - A Christian is born a Christian, they believed in Christianity. This is like a lottery. Atheist are those who questioned their religion, something that must be done and is the main point of being born in the wrong religion, no? I know some atheist who were religion A, went through the stages of being an atheist and afterward agnostic and finally religion B. So, unless you're a former atheist or a former member of a different religion, you don't have the right to question their reasoning.
Death is the way of life, it is something everyone will go through. I argued the idea of death having dates set, not the idea.
That's where you're wrong. A set death doesn't mean it is destroying free will? If a man is at the hospital, he is waiting to see his wife and their newborn child but suddenly, the date God set has expired and he randomly dies from a heart attack, or any cause - that took away his free will to see his newborn, if the dates were never set, there wouldn't be death at that point in time. A set death does disturb free will.
This part has no argument. I could simply use "coincidence" into the argument but you will use "God knows", it'll be repeated for a few times until this thread is locked so I'm going to ignore this.
This is the same thing my brother constantly tell me and I will reply the same way I replied to him.
Individual A.
Individual B.
Individual C.
Individual A was born to a normal family who taught him how to become an acceptable individual when he is older. They gave him proper education and gave him no reason to worry about money.
Individual B was born to a broken family. He was raised by his mother while his father left him when he was young. He mother takes her anger out on him because every time she sees him, it reminded her of his father.
Individual C was born to a broken family. He was raised by his father while his mother left when he was younger after she discovered her father in bed with another man. His father abused the boy and raped him on several different occasion.
People are given free will to choose door A, door B, door C. Door A has positive. Door B has negative. Door C has both.
Studies shows that upbringing decides how a child will turn out most of the time.
A was blessed, B was not and so was C. B and C were forced to live in those situations which affected their mind and how they think and feel -God gave them that life. B became a murderer and C became a rapist. No one helped them when they needed anyone, no one shaped them for the better and no one bothered to give them proper examples and teachings - they were forced to live in those life which as I said, affected their mind and their thinking because God put them in those life and suddenly they are suppose to think what is best and what is not. A homosexual is born a homosexual, no one has the power to change their interest in *** life changing clothes - there's no option A, B or C. Yes, God gave them all the tools needed but what does it matter if their upbringing set their mind as they grew older. Look at you and I, we're both Muslim but we both share different views on this. Option A, B, or C has no use if their upbringing were set before they were even born.
If your upbringing made you a killer, you can't change the past nor can you change the wound the upbringing has inflicted onto your brain, there are no cure for scars that cannot be seen
Last edited:
TenseiganFTW
Active member
No one is saying that you can change the past,you are making sense right now.
If you repent to God he will forgive you if you sincerely regret it.
Umar R.A was a very wild person 1st,however later he became great,sometimes people with the worst past create the best future,the point is not to change the past if you consumed drugs,but you have to change the future and stop consuming drug and you have to change the present.
Don't give a bad interpretation of the Holy Qur'an and try to look at the context!
Omar19992010
Active member
Yeah pretty much.
"He who commits suicide by throttling shall keep on throttling himself in the Hell Fire (forever) and he who commits suicide by stabbing himself shall keep on stabbing himself in the Hell-Fire." (Bukhari, Janaiz 84)
Ansatsuken
Active member
Awards
I dont found any verse in Quran but many Hadiths talked about it
You must be registered for see links
But it talked about children and not baby. But as Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) him said:-
Rasoolullah Sallahu alaihi wasallam has said: ' Every born child is created upon the fitrah (natural religion of Islam in which there is inclination to Tawhid, the oneness of Allah). Thereafter, his/her parents make him Jew, Chistian or a Fire-Worshipper.'
Baby is born free of sin and pure. Therefore it logically they will go to heaven.
And there are cause of the babies to dies as a contribution also and not because God decide who should live or die. Kill by parents that not want unwanted baby, medical problem from inadequate cares or treatments from medical facility or medical personal that contribute to the death. And not because God Willy Nilly pick who will die or alive without cause in this case. This is why we always hear about Mortality rates. Most of the baby are given a chance by God to be alive and living in this world.
Like I said before "where the dust is collected by angels is where the place the person/baby in this case die".
Like I said Free Will couldnt control death. It not taking his Free Will bcus the person never control his life and death. Plus the person never know when he will die. The thing you said above happen actually "People die before they managed to do something they want."
It happen to either religious people or atheist people. Whose to blame about this set death time? It will happen to you or me.
Thats is the difference between death and other things that we can bend to our free will.
I said in general and not specific at the time of death. Death yeah will kill your free will
My statement:-
But my statement actually meant to said "death the only thing that Free Will couldn't control but overall apart from death, it not destroying your free will for other things" Clear?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For other point. I never said God set/control. You said it. I said there are different path ways.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lastly you said you're Muslim but people can speak lie here without proving it first. Bcus there are exist former Muslim here.
Last edited:
Scooby Doo
Active member
Awards
While I understand why someone with a lethal disease would resort to suicide, let me tell you a little anecdote. Once I was in the same hospital room with someone who was around 60, and he had been told that he may have cancer. It was not a final diagnosis but the man freaked out so much that he decided to take his life. He didn't want to wait to get the final diagnosis. He didn't want to be told that he has cancer. So he swallowed industrial foam to choke on. The foam hardened in his gullet and in parts of his stomach. But he survived. That's why he was in the hospital with me. He was waiting for surgery to get his esopha.gus (damn NB even censors that term...) and part of his stomach removed. As there was no other way to remove the foam too.
So...I think that someone who has a strong faith, will endure everything. The key word is endure. Which is quite different from suffering. That's the difference faith is supposed to make. (Now of course you can have faith in medicine and the doctors too...but that's somewhat more fragile).
So...I think that someone who has a strong faith, will endure everything. The key word is endure. Which is quite different from suffering. That's the difference faith is supposed to make. (Now of course you can have faith in medicine and the doctors too...but that's somewhat more fragile).
Punk Hazard
Active member
Awards
Scooby Doo
Active member
Awards
Well I think he didn't...but I was transferred soon so I never found out. But had he really had cancer, probably he would have been told, along with the surgery he was going to have on his esophhagus and stomach.