normal muslims also hate radicals (proof)

[Monxstaa]

Nope he likes them. Thats why he talks about them.



Is this a marriage proposal?

lul not really, just said it incase he thinks i really hate him

I agree. I also feel if you truly care for humanity instead of posting this stuff here you should go do something about it. I feel coming in here to post facts about something won't do anyone any good. Because no one on this site has the power to change the world. That requires a whole different step.

well he should do something about it since he keeps saying that muslims are bad, he should go out and protest not argue online

 

[Natsu Shazneel]

lul not really, just said it incase he thinks i really hate him

I am sure he will be blushing while reading your comment.

well he should do something about it since he keeps saying that muslims are bad, he should go out and protest not argue online

That's what I am saying. If this is something you really fear than go do something about it.

 

[ItachiDaSoloKing]

Firstly you have your numbers wrong. I didn't say 49%. That's the number of muslims worldwide who approve of al-Qaeda.

Secondly I said 20-40 of muslims in Europe think that suicide bombings are justified. This is a cold hard fact.

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page 54

Thirdly, you can't refute the conclusions of worldwide statistical researches by based on 4-6 people you saw on some random video on youtube. That's a logical fallacy and just plain wrong.





Studies, researches and polls are different than media. But often media articles about these issues are based on those studies.



Lmao. Did you just really say that? All it is is an attempt to try to ignore and downplay the the actual attidues of hundreds of millions of people. Leaders condemns an act then that's a justifiable reason not to blame the culture?
Basically by your logic 100 million muslims do suicide bombings and when an islam official says it's wrong then it's all fine and dandy and there's no problem with the culture whatsoever. It's truly astoundishing how blatant the self deception of muslims is. Always in denial and finding ways to blame media or exremists.

There's no need for mind reading when the attitudes of many muslims are reflected in polls and researches year after year after year regardless of country.

















You guys are seeing it how you want to see it. You guys also have your numbers wrong and you make wrong conclusions about those numbers and what they actually mean. Blaming only radicals or media when for example the human right violations in islamic cultures and it's laws are common, and also commonly accepted in muslim communities.

Fact is that currently over 10 islamic countries have death penalty for apostasy. Homosexualy is illegal in all islamic countries and in atleast 10 countries it is punishable by death. The migrants come from these countries.
The laws of these countries are reflected in the attitudes of their people:

Another fact is that a big bart of muslims approve of those barbaric human rights violations. This again is a fact:

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Those views given from islamic state citizens, do not differ from the ones living in for example Britain, since according to ICM survey: 40% of it's muslims want sharia law in their country:

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Yet another fact is that from time and time again, REGARDLESS of the country, polls and researches have shown that MANY, not all, not even most, but MANY muslims approve of suicide bombings, killin in the name of religion and radical groups:


ICM Poll: 20% of British Muslims sympathize with 7/7 bombers

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NOP Research: 1 in 4 British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified

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Pew Research (2013): Only 57% of Muslims worldwide disapprove of al-Qaeda. Only 51% disapprove of the Taliban. 13% support both groups and 1 in 4 refuse to say.

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Pew Research (2014): 47% of Bangladeshi Muslims says suicide bombings and violence are justified to "defend Islam". 1 in 4 believed the same in Tanzania and Egypt. 1 in 5 Muslims in the 'moderate' countries of Turkey and Malaysia.

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Federation of Student Islamic Societies: About 1 in 5 Muslim students in Britain (18%) would not report a fellow Muslim planning a terror attack.

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Pew Research (2007): 26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified.

35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).

42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall).

22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall).

29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall).

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Add all that to the fact that muslims in European countries do relatively more sexual and violent crimes than others. 4-20 times more than a native European. That's big problem right there also. And you dare to blame the media?

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I've said this a million times, but you guys just don't want to see the problems, either unconciously or conciously (cognitive dissonanse).
So based on numerous neutral sources, researches and studies the approval of an oppressive, violent and discriminating sharia law, justifying suicide bombings and killing civilians and approving of al-Gaeda all are opinions that 20-40% of the muslim population shares. It's been proven that these people form a big part of muslims regardless of country.
20-40% out of all muslims is 320 to 640 million people. You don't think this is the problem? The silent approval of the problems that extremist bring into light isn't a problem?

Like I said. IF we had 100's of millions of Muslims determined to kill. We would be dead. Considering the destruction only a few Terrorist can cause.

 

[ComplexCity]

I agree. I also feel if you truly care for humanity instead of posting this stuff here you should go do something about it. I feel coming in here to post facts about something won't do anyone any good. Because no one on this site has the power to change the world. That requires a whole different step.

Dont get me wrong, it's ok for him to post an opinion, people claim NB to be bad with differed opinions (even myself have been guilty of doing so) but that is not entirely true. In fact I've learned from this site that different opinions are ok. However, when your opinion is trying to be broadcasted as fact, then that is where the issue lies. He is not wrong for stating his opinion but wrong for degrading a group based off the a certain few

 

[Hawker]

Irrelevant and false.

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It's not one leader but the whole of religious leaders of Islam.

Please elaborate what's false exactly. There's atleast four points in that paragraph.

Irrelevant as well. The topic isn't what is done in Islamic states, but wether or not Islamic leaders and those who follow them condemn it or not.

No, that's your topic. I get the logic you're going after. But religion and culture are so entwined in muslim countries that it has everything to do with Islam. So if your countries approve acts against basic human rights in their laws then that mindset is reflected onto it's people, onto muslims. The leaders may condemn some of the acts, but what has it gotten you so far? They don't seem to have no affect on the people who approve suicide bombings.
This video provides an analysis of why Islam is not the religion of peace you claim it to be:

The closest thing that comes to what Isis is doing is Jihad, wich is understood as a spiritual struggle against oneself rather than violent conquest by the official Islamic teachings. (There goes the idea of it not advancing.)

Who says which is official and which is not? By what right does anyone claim that sort of authority? Islamic law consists of Koran and the scriptures correct? Therefore anyone can read them and gain knowledge. How come any cleric would be more right than the other when they all quote the Koran by cherrypicking it?

In short:

- Islam is represented by its religious leaders
- Religious leaders condemned the radical acts based on the religion's offical teaching
- Hence Islam opposes radical acts

Islam is also represented by it's followers. Even if what you say is true, how do you explain that 42% of the French muslim youth believes that suicide bombings are justified? In other countries those numbers are 20-40%. And specifically young people. I'm baffled by these numbers. What do you teach your children? That is unacceptable. It either goes to say that your leaders are doing a terrible job at leading or that your culture itself raises a huge amount of potential radicalists. Time to do something about it?

What about the imams and clerics who approve suicide bombings and killing for religion? Are they ignored or what? We have them in Europe.

From here it follows that those who don't abide by the religion's laws are practicing a different form of that religion and as such form a separate group.

To accuse another group wich officially condemns the acts of the radical group is to accuse those who are innocent on supporting the guilty while being ignorant of the claims of the very ones you are accusing.

Great. So almost half of the people of muslims worldwide are wrong and not abiding your laws? Pew Research (2013): Only 57% of Muslims worldwide disapprove of al-Qaeda. Only 51% disapprove of the Taliban. 13% support both groups and 1 in 4 refuse to say.

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I think that's your problem. Not the other way around. Your culture relies on religious dogma and indoctrination. It's your fault that 20-40% have such warped ideas or that so many support al-Qaeda. What's your excuse for Islam this time? They all just "misunderstood" what was taught to them? Also those innocent muslims you talk of, most of them still support sharia law. In Iraq 91%, Afghanistan 95%, Palestinje 89%, Malaysia 86%. Just please tell your leaders to do a better job.

 

[ComplexCity]

snip

I'm not looking to debate about this subject but I do have a question for you, how can you bash another groups culture based solely on what you believe is wrong if morality is subjective?

 

[Natsu Shazneel]

Dont get me wrong, it's ok for him to post an opinion, people claim NB to be bad with differed opinions (even myself have been guilty of doing so) but that is not entirely true. In fact I've learned from this site that different opinions are ok. However, when your opinion is trying to be broadcasted as fact, then that is where the issue lies. He is not wrong for stating his opinion but wrong for degrading a group based off the a certain few

Yes stating them as facts is the problem here. When those facts are ment to spread hatred nothing more.

 

[ComplexCity]

Yes stating them as facts is the problem here. When those facts are ment to spread hatred nothing more.

I don't think it's hate, more like ignorance and disposition of his views

 

[Natsu Shazneel]

I don't think it's hate, more like ignorance and disposition of his views

Its hate when its being brought up constantly to put down a religion.

 

[ComplexCity]

Its hate when its being brought up constantly to put down a religion.

I can see it from that view, but I also understand where he's coming from, not that I am trying to disrespect Muslims or Islams

 

[Hawker]

I'm not looking to debate about this subject but I do have a question for you, how can you bash another groups culture based solely on what you believe is wrong if morality is subjective?

We are born as individuals. I think the thought that from child you are labeled as "islamic child" and if you try to leave your faith you will be killed is inherently wrong. It's tragic. If you'd been born in Ireland you'd be a catholic. Or in India you'd be a Hindu. So by the mere accident of geography you were labeled as something you should've decided for yourself.

Why I critisice islamic culture is because I think people should have free will to chose their sexual orientation, religion and their opinions. Not be judged by them. Those human rights that UN has published have been rationally argued and discussed. They are not based on religion. I don't think morality should be totally subjective. We should rationalise it more, if we can.

 

[Marin]

Please elaborate what's false exactly. There's atleast four points in that paragraph.

All of it is irrelevant as it doesn't touch the topic of this thread and that is wether "normal" muslims condemn the radicals.

The link was there to show that the culture has indeed progressed compared to what it used to be wich also accounts for all the things religious leaders accepted then and what they accept now.

No, that's your topic. I get the logic you're going after. But religion and culture are so entwined in muslim countries that it has everything to do with Islam. So if your countries approve acts against basic human rights in their laws then that mindset is reflected onto it's people, onto muslims. The leaders may condemn some of the acts, but what has it gotten you so far? They don't seem to have no affect on the people who approve suicide bombings.
This video provides an analysis of why Islam is not the religion of peace you claim it to be:

My topic? Hardly.

Read the topic. "normal muslims also hate radicals (proof)"

Read the OP.

Wich part of it talks about Islam's history, what is done in Islamic countries and so on? None. Hence, the topic is wether "normal" muslims condemn radicals.

Ofcourse the words of the religious leaders don't have effect on radicals. They follow a different form of religion.

Also, I never claimed it to be religion of peace. Learn how to read.

Who says which is official and which is not? By what right does anyone claim that sort of authority? Islamic law consists of Koran and the scriptures correct? Therefore anyone can read them and gain knowledge. How come any cleric would be more right than the other when they all quote the Koran by cherrypicking it?

The one whose views have been traditionally established, socially accepted and have more basis on the material it covers.

Wether someone cherrypicks or not is irrelevant. The official teachings condemn the acts of the radicals. Regardless of how these teachings are formed.

Islam is also represented by it's followers. Even if what you say is true, how do you explain that 42% of the French muslim youth believes that suicide bombings are justified? In other countries those numbers are 20-40%. And specifically young people. I'm baffled by these numbers. What do you teach your children? That is unacceptable. It either goes to say that your leaders are doing a terrible job at leading or that your culture itself raises a huge amount of potential radicalists. Time to do something about it?

Where are you getting those statistics? Objective sources are pointing to a majority of muslims condemning violent acts in the name of their religion.

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Regardless, the official teaching condemns the act. Those who do not agree with it aren't considered to be practicing the same form of religion.

What about the imams and clerics who approve suicide bombings and killing for religion? Are they ignored or what? We have them in Europe.

Bring them in.

Great. So almost half of the people of muslims worldwide are wrong and not abiding your laws? Pew Research (2013): Only 57% of Muslims worldwide disapprove of al-Qaeda. Only 51% disapprove of the Taliban. 13% support both groups and 1 in 4 refuse to say.

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I have already provided a wikipedia article sourcing to studies wich showed different results.

I think that's your problem. Not the other way around. Your culture relies on religious dogma and indoctrination. It's your fault that 20-40% have such warped ideas or that so many support al-Qaeda. What's your excuse for Islam this time? They all just "misunderstood" what was taught to them? Also those innocent muslims you talk of, most of them still support sharia law. In Iraq 91%, Afghanistan 95%, Palestinje 89%, Malaysia 86%. Just please tell your leaders to do a better job.

I am not a muslim.

I never said anything about this or that being "your problem".

Wether you think "our" leaders are doing a good job or not is irrelevant.

Also, on what are you basing your claims of "warped ideas"?

 

[Hawker]

Where are you getting those statistics? Objective sources are pointing to a majority of muslims condemning violent acts in the name of their religion.

Your wikipedia article if you'd have read closely provides same kind of results in it's opinion surveys section. There's even PEW research surveys included. The same ones I've been using. The first gallup however was not something I've seen before. It does not reflect all the other studies though. At all. You really make me post these stats again?

Spoiler

ICM Poll: 20% of British Muslims sympathize with 7/7 bombershttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ls-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html

NOP Research: 1 in 4 British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justifiedhttp://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/opinion/main1893879.shtml&date=2011-04-06http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

People-Press: 31% of Turks support suicide attacks against Westerners in Iraq.

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YNet: One third of Palestinians (32%) supported the slaughter of a Jewish family, including the children:

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Pew Research (2007): 26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified.

35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).

42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall).

22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall).

29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall).

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Pew Research (2007): Muslim-Americans who identify more strongly with their religion are three times more likely to feel that suicide bombings are justified

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ICM: 5% of Muslims in Britain tell pollsters they would not report a planned Islamic terror attack to authorities. 27% do not support the deportation of Islamic extremists preaching violence and hate.

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Federation of Student Islamic Societies: About 1 in 5 Muslim students in Britain (18%) would not report a fellow Muslim planning a terror attack.

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Pew Research (2013): At least 1 in 4 Muslims do not reject violence against civilians (study did notdistinguish between those who believe it is partially justified and never justified).

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Pew Research (2013): Only 57% of Muslims worldwide disapprove of al-Qaeda. Only 51% disapprove of the Taliban. 13% support both groups and 1 in 4 refuse to say.

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Palestinian Center for Political Research (2015): 74% of Palestinians support Hamas terror attacks.

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Pew Research (2014): 47% of Bangladeshi Muslims says suicide bombings and violence are justified to "defend Islam". 1 in 4 believed the same in Tanzania and Egypt. 1 in 5 Muslims in the 'moderate' countries of Turkey and Malaysia.

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So imo the only rational conclusion is that islamic leaders have failed. Who will actually make the distinction between of what Islam actually teaches and what is silently condoned, when such a big part of that religion has those views.

Nevertheless people aren't only judging Islam based on terrorist attacks. Like I mentioned sharia law. You say those are irrelevant but it's related on the view of muslims and thus affects the judging part. Which was what your original comment was about. Judging.

 

[ComplexCity]

We are born as individuals. I think the thought that from child you are labeled as "islamic child" and if you try to leave your faith you will be killed is inherently wrong. It's tragic. If you'd been born in Ireland you'd be a catholic. Or in India you'd be a Hindu. So by the mere accident of geography you were labeled as something you should've decided for yourself.

Well I don't know much about Islam, so I cannot speak on it. But from those on the base who actually follow the belief seem to say that these words in the bold are intepreted wrong. So for this part, I will not argue against it

Why I critisice islamic culture is because I think people should have free will to chose their sexual orientation, religion and their opinions. Not be judged by them. Those human rights that UN has published have been rationally argued and discussed. They are not based on religion. I don't think morality should be totally subjective. We should rationalise it more, if we can.

Now this is where things get slippery. The moment you say "I think" is were all the facts are laid to waste and then everything you speak following that (in regards to your view on the subject) becomes prediliection. The way you feel should not be put on how others feel especially since you stated above that you feel the Islamic culture pushes their views of those who in it. Whether or not you feel morality should be subjective the reality is that it is and we have to learn to except that, not get mad and degrade another's view. Who decideds what is moral? According to scientist, Neandtherals at one point were cannibals, something that is considered immoral today. We cannot reflect what we consdier to be moral on others and expect everyone to live as we think they should live

 

[Hawker]

Well I don't know much about Islam, so I cannot speak on it. But from those on the base who actually follow the belief seem to say that these words in the bold are intepreted wrong. So for this part, I will not argue against it

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-wikipedia

Now this is where things get slippery. The moment you say "I think" is were all the facts are laid to waste and then everything you speak following that (in regards to your view on the subject) becomes prediliection. The way you feel should not be put on how others feel especially since you stated above that you feel the Islamic culture pushes their views of those who in it. Whether or not you feel morality should be subjective the reality is that it is and we have to learn to except that, not get mad and degrade another's view. Who decideds what is moral? According to scientist, Neandtherals at one point were cannibals, something that is considered immoral today. We cannot reflect what we consdier to be moral on others and expect everyone to live as we think they should live

True, but equal rights and free will are easily defendable by rationality. So it's only rational to criticise those who break those rights.

 

[ComplexCity]

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-wikipedia

See here buddy, this not gonna fly with me :lol

Statistisc can say that most Christians are hateful (Yes I believe in Christianity), I will never equate Christianity being bad based on numbers of people who want to misinterpret and be hypocrites. You cannot generalize a group based off certain individuals. You said in another thread that you don't really know much about religion(s), so how can you say that people of said statistics are actually following what they practice? (E.G: I highly disagree with the way Westboro goes about things and I am a Christian with gay friends)

True, but equal rights and free will are easily defendable by rationality. So it's only rational to criticise those who break those rights.

Again, based on your predilection. In some places in Asia, it is considered rude not to call a person an honorific (especially if they are older than you or in a higher position), something that is different of western culture. It shows a sign of respect but over here, it is harmless not to do so. Who am I to say that is a silly thing to follow?

 

[Hawker]

See here buddy, this not gonna fly with me :lol

Statistic can say that most Christians are hateful (Yes I believe in Christianity), I will never equate Christianity being bad based on numbers. You cannot generalize a group based off certain individuals. You said in another thread that you don't really know much about religion(s), so how can you say that people of said statistics are actually following what they practice? (E.G: I highly disagree with the way Westboro goes about things and I am a Christian with gay friends)

What the f...are you serious right now or just trolling?

Those are the countries where it is the law that you will be punished by death if you leave your faith. Certain individuals in this case meaning over 10 islamic countries with hunderds of million of muslim. I'm really struggling here to not to insult you. Btw. christianity is not a law religon.

I've never said I don't know much about religion. I probably know more than you. You don't think they teach those things in elementary, school, high school and university. All of in which I've studied. I'm assuming your on fourth grade?

Again, based on your predilection. In some places in Asia, it is considered rude not to call a person an honorific, something that is different of western culture. It shows a sign of respect but over here, it is harmless not to do so. Who am I to say that is a silly thing to follow?

Lol laws and customs are a different thing.

 

[ComplexCity]

What the f...are you serious right now or just trolling?

Those are the countries where it is the law that you will be punished by death if you leave your faith. Certain individuals in this case meaning over 10 islamic countries with hunderds of million of muslim. I'm really struggling here to not to insult you. Btw. christianity is not a law religon.

Keep it civil, I already told you that I don't know much about Islam so I won't speak on it. But you're being told by more than one person that there are people who are not really following Islam and are extremist. I've debated with Atheist about religious texts in the bible and not much to my amazement, the ignorance comes out to how little they really know. My whole analogy for Christianity and the Westboro church is to show you the same mistake you keep making (I've seen your rampant and increasing post of your distaste in not only Islam but Muslim culture in general) was to show you that equating a view to "bad apples" is a bad way to look at a group

I've never said I don't know much about religion. I probably know more than you. You don't think they teach those things in elementary, school, high school and university. All of in which I've studied. I'm assuming your on fourth grade?

Well then I withdraw that, but based on responses that I'm seeing, I beg to differ and what do you mean about the bold?

Lol laws and customs are a different thing.

Irrelevant to my point, morality does not have to be a law (which is ironic considering law is something that is agreed subjectively also among individuals). How can you insult me when you seem to missing a lot of people's points?

 

[KingForever7]

The Quran must be some deep shit to have brought up such radical extremism among some muslims. Even if there isn't a large proportion of them compared to normal muslims...there's still a plentiful amount of these radical muslims that have caused a high amount of Terrorism in today's society.

 

[Hawker]

The Quran must be some deep shit to have brought up such radical extremism among some muslims. Even if there isn't a large proportion of them compared to normal muslims...there's still a plentiful amount of these radical muslims that have caused a high amount of Terrorism in today's society.

Pure ownage.

The women who asked the question is a typical example of a muslim apologist. Which are most muslims. They only see themselves as victims. And deny everything and blame others and whine when people judge them She got what she deserved. Destroyed.