I. Obviously not. Rikudou chakra only boosted his person. His chakra? Obviously, but it didn't turn his direct base of chakra into Rikudou chakra.
II. I don't think that's how it works. From my POV, Naruto has half of Hagoromo's Rikudou chakra. This specific chakra, when it gathers Senjutsu, gives birth to RSM.
Hagoromo didn't have Six Paths Senjutsu until after he became the Juubi Jinchuuriki. Likewise, Asura didn't have Rikudou Senjutsu despite having Hagoromo's Physical Energy until after he received all of the Bijuu's Power which is a form of Senjutsu.
I'm not saying that's how Naruto received it because his case was completely different (IMO).
Hagoromo didn't have Six Paths Senjutsu until after he became the Juubi Jinchuuriki. Likewise, Asura didn't have Rikudou Senjutsu despite having Hagoromo's Physical Energy until after he received all of the Bijuu's Power which is a form of Senjutsu.
I'm not saying that's how Naruto received it because his case was completely different (IMO).
What people are confusing is that Naruto received his Rikudou chakra from Hagoromo, in turn, he already has the kneaded power for RSM without needing to create it himself. Which is why I don't understand why people are trying to compare RSM to the Rikudou Coffin Seal ... :lol
What Naruto essentially does is by taking this already formed power, he applies it to his chakra mode. Which gives birth to the RSM Naruto that people saw in the Manga, Movie, and the Gaiden.
What people are confusing is that Naruto received his Rikudou chakra from Hagoromo, in turn, he already has the kneaded power for RSM without needing to create it himself. Which is why I don't understand why people are trying to compare RSM to the Rikudou Coffin Seal ... :lol
Kaguya didn't even become the Juubi until after. She only consumed the chakra fruit -- This doesn't matter though. The fact is, Senjutsu from the Six Paths is what unlocks TSB. Which is something both Hagoromo and Hamura received from their mother.
Naruto also received this Senjutsu from Hagoromo, but alas your implying that he needs to use Bijuu chakra to unlock the Senjutsu?
You know how Naruto utilizes Bijuu chakra, right?
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Unless your implying he can use Bijuu chakra like he utilizes Kurama chakra :lol
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>Comparing Madara and Obito to RSM Naruto when their powers originated from different sources
>Saying Naruto needs Bijuu chakra to form RSM yet neglects the fact that Naruto received half of Rikudou's power from Hagoromo already
>Neglects how Naruto even receives Bijuu chakra outside of Kurama, much less how it's utilized.
So, you are basically agreeing with me that they are her offspring, and hence, carry the traits? I don't give a spit about her origins.
Yes, he kinda does. Explicitly shown via Obito incident. He quickly developed the TSB as soon as he took the chakra out. The Sage's Senjutsu Madara AND Kakshi commented on. Ignore that as well.
I am sorry, you are not making a lick of sense. What do these images prove? He isn't in RSM? He is. He is not using the perks of the Sage mode? He is. Oh wait, he isn't drawing ALL their power to create the cloak, as in, proper assimilation of all chakra as Jubi Jins do, so it's all null and void? Fantastic. I don't give a damn what he does. Fact remains, he had their chakra, he was using it as shown through his TBB usages and the fact that Sasuke commented on it as well. Add that to another one of your denials.
- Your understanding of it, which is as untrue as ever. Different source? Are you kidding me? When the sage literally states that HIS chakra resulted in Madara's escapades? Obito and Madara literally mention the Sage's Senjutsu and power repeatedly?
- Power as in what sense? That doesn't even remotely negate what the manga and DB explicitly state and show. Nothing but wordplay from you.
- Yeah, no idea about this line.
Well, Kishi's early ideas and explanations have been mostly debunked by Kishi himself. Not to say what you're saying is wrong though, but it doesn't explain anything. This makes no distinction between Naruto retaining his own chakra. What I'm talking about is Naruto's Ashura chakra...
Onto the Kyuubi. We know that Naruto is the Jinchuriki of Kurama post
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. It should have been fairly obvious that Naruto has always had two different chakra's residing in him. But here it is stated
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. As a PJ we know Naruto has access to the kyuubi's chakra whenever he wants. Also I believe we know what happens when the kyuubi get's angry or his chakra starts leaking. [
Yeah, this part was obvious. But thanks for explaining anyway.
Kyuubi's done I believe, onto Rikudo's. Now we know that Both Naruto & Sasuke both gained
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right?.
All you really need to know here is that neither lost their chakra from the sage, otherwise Sasuke's Rinnegan & Naruto's RSM would have been absent in Gaiden & Boruto.
Sure, buddy. But the Naruto's OWN chakra part (the actual thing for which I needed proof) wasn't that clearly explained and proved. I need some other more relevant and logical explanation, if you can.
He cannot use two Sage Modes at the same time. The RSM is activated through Sage's Senjutsu chakra and it's passive. He has to call on it. The Frog SM on the other hand is a mode that he learned. He calls on NE and does the balancing and enters the mode. He knows it, hence, I cannot see why it should be discarded.
@bold Never said he could.
@underlined The main issue here is his chakra possession. How does he attain those two modes (individually of course) with the chakra he has, and the confusion was whether he has his own Ashura chakra (this makes it self-explanatory) or not (this messes things up).
RSM is also automatic, as in, it doesn't need to be learned. The Senjutsu itself grants the automatic 'Universal Grasp of All Things' and the perks of Sage's Sage Mode. Which is why Obito and Madara were using the Sage Mode without having ever learned it. I do understand your problem with this as it really doesn't make any sense for him to use Frong SM. But, he probably didn't want to use so much power. Sasuke didn't either.
Excellent Reply. It covers the TSBs requiring the Bijuu chakra quite effectively as well. Going for this, he should not be able to use RSM without having ALL Bijuus or their chakra. And it actually FITS, as Madara and Obito acquired RSM via Juubi or all the Bijuus.
If Bijuus chakra granted RSM, then Sasuke should have had it at VOTE when he created BPS. Obviously you need the Juubi sealed inside of you to attain RSM, just the bijuus chakra isn't enough.
He has Six Paths Chakra, His normal chakra,Kyuubi Chakra, and Nature Chakra
Proof is the fact that he used normal Frog SM. Had his chakra been permanatley Six Paths he would never have the orange markings around his eyes. Hope this is enough.
You say Naruto has his TSM due to retaining his own chakra. When asked for proof, you reverse it by saying he has his own chakra because he has TSM. You can't technically prove something back with what you're trying to prove with. But don't bother, I'm convinced for the most part that Naruto still retains his own chakra by some of the replies in this post.
whats your point? hamura naturally possesses the six paths chakra and by extension, the six paths sage chakra.
hagoromo possesses this power as well. becoming a juubi jin grants you the same power that hagoromo possesses(six paths senjutsu) as stated by the databook(you ignore this yet keep going on about "hagoromos gift").
having all 9 biju is the same as being a juubi jin as stated.
hagoromos power=six paths senjutsu
juubi jins power=six paths senjutsu
power of all 9 biju=six paths senjutsu
yes, naruto can enter six paths sage mode because of the six paths sage power that comes with drawing on the power of all the biju.
what does the yang seal have to do with anything?
are you asking why would i use every possible official source to come to the correct conclusion instead of cherrypicking facts which would lead to the opposite?
All your argument is right except one thing. Having the bijuus chakra does not grant RSM, only having the Juubi sealed inside of you does. By your logic, Sasuke had RSM at VOTE.
If Bijuus chakra granted RSM, then Sasuke should have had it at VOTE when he created BPS. Obviously you need the Juubi sealed inside of you to attain RSM, just the bijuus chakra isn't enough.
Well, Kishi's early ideas and explanations have been mostly debunked by Kishi himself. Not to say what you're saying is wrong though, but it doesn't explain anything. This makes no distinction between Naruto retaining his own chakra. What I'm talking about is Naruto's Ashura chakra Sure, buddy. But the Naruto's OWN chakra part (the actual thing for which I needed proof) wasn't that clearly explained and proved. I need some other more relevant and logical explanation, if you can.
It would have been probably better had I drawn some part 2 scans, if picture's of Naruto's Giant Rasengan from the boruto movie surfaced already, but it has not.
@Bold Do not worry yourself over this. The Indra & Ashura chakra that transmigrated along with their spirit was pretty insignificant. It influenced them sure, their actions & power. But their chakra has been watered down through generations.
So we're going to start off with the fact that Kishi allowed for a second less obvious distinction between Naruto's & the Kyuubi's chakra he has yet, to retcon. & Thats the
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In the scan you can see Naruto's chakra in base, or just his chakra is yellow. He's followed up with this several times throughout the series, even in the last movie. [
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],[
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],[
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].
Another thing about Naruto's chakra is that it's sectioned off from the Kyuubi's now. No longer mixing & melding ever since he put his own new seal when he was 16. [
It would have been probably better had I drawn some part 2 scans, if picture's of Naruto's Giant Rasengan from the boruto movie surfaced already, but it has not.
@Bold Do not worry yourself over this. The Indra & Ashura chakra that transmigrated along with their spirit was pretty insignificant. It influenced them sure, their actions & power. But their chakra has been watered down through generations.
So we're going to start off with the fact that Kishi allowed for a second less obvious distinction between Naruto's & the Kyuubi's chakra he has yet, to retcon. & Thats the
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In the scan you can see Naruto's chakra in base, or just his chakra is yellow. He's followed up with this several times throughout the series, even in the last movie. [
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],[
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],[
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].
Another thing about Naruto's chakra is that it's sectioned off from the Kyuubi's now. No longer mixing & melding ever since he put his own new seal when he was 16. [
I don't get your point. The argument at hand is Naruto's RSM, which is a byproduct of the assimilation of Bijuu chakra within his own body. Sasuke took out the chakra and placed it in a container. He never used it to amplify his PSs' defenses. It only aided him in the final attack.
Since the chakra never entered Sasuke's body, he would never attain RSM, when Bijuu Chakra is a prerequisite for it, as shown repeatedly through Madara's, Obito's and Sage's dialogues and actions. Treating Naruto as something outside the norm is the mistake people make. He isn't a special snow-flake here. That was the point i was making, as:
RSM = Sage's Chakra plus assimilation of Bijuu Chakra.
The Ashura chakra Naruto possesses is very insignificant.
Compared to his own, the kyuubi's & Hagoromo's etc.
Here we see in the manga when Hagoromo speaks to Naruto he asks if he could feel Ashura's "
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" so more like his spirit influencing & guiding Naruto throughout his life. As Nar
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. Ashura's chakra had watered down enough to a point that Naruto was still strong in that he had to = Sasuke Indra, but both were inferior to the previous Incarnation's Madara & Hashirama. & that's because both were closer to the sage.
Edit:To summarize, All Ashura brought Naruto was an influence on his actions, way of life, & Ashura avatar. Much Like Indra influenced Sasukes goals & life, along with his PS being near identical to indras.
So, you are basically agreeing with me that they are her offspring, and hence, carry the traits? I don't give a spit about her origins.
Yes, he kinda does. Explicitly shown via Obito incident. He quickly developed the TSB as soon as he took the chakra out. The Sage's Senjutsu Madara AND Kakshi commented on. Ignore that as well.
I am sorry, you are not making a lick of sense. What do these images prove? He isn't in RSM? He is. He is not using the perks of the Sage mode? He is. Oh wait, he isn't drawing ALL their power to create the cloak, as in, proper assimilation of all chakra as Jubi Jins do, so it's all null and void? Fantastic. I don't give a damn what he does. Fact remains, he had their chakra, he was using it as shown through his TBB usages and the fact that Sasuke commented on it as well. Add that to another one of your denials.
- Your understanding of it, which is as untrue as ever. Different source? Are you kidding me? When the sage literally states that HIS chakra resulted in Madara's escapades? Obito and Madara literally mention the Sage's Senjutsu and power repeatedly?
- Power as in what sense? That doesn't even remotely negate what the manga and DB explicitly state and show. Nothing but wordplay from you.
- Yeah, no idea about this line.
> The TSB are created through SO6P Senjutsu, and furthermore, they only manifested when he activated the cloak mode of his RSM. Hamura didn't need Bijuu chakra in his body, apparently, to sustain TSB. He has Rikudou chakra, like Naruto, does he not?
> What do the images prove? Read what I told you before, how exactly does Naruto utilize Bijuu chakra? By making a mental connection and then receiving their chakra when he asks for it, or they call out to him and he accepts. Your implying that Naruto can somehow, use the Bijuu's chakra similar to how he can seemlessly use the Kyuubi's power, and that's wrong.
But please show me the scan of Naruto utilizing the 8Bijuu's power without forming a connection with them first. The reason why I brought up the last scan of Naruto forming the KA was because it showed how a Jinchuriki works with his own Bijuu, compared to what he has to do to activate the other power in his body.
I mean that Naruto has the chakra required to activate RSM already, which is what he received from Hagoromo. It's beyond me how someone can say Hagoromo gave him a power that needs another power to sustain itself.
> The TSB are created through SO6P Senjutsu, and furthermore, they only manifested when he activated the cloak mode of his RSM. Hamura didn't need Bijuu chakra in his body, apparently, to sustain TSB. He has Rikudou chakra, like Naruto, does he not?
> What do the images prove? Read what I told you before, how exactly does Naruto utilize Bijuu chakra? By making a mental connection and then receiving their chakra when he asks for it, or they call out to him and he accepts. Your implying that Naruto can somehow, use the Bijuu's chakra similar to how he can seemlessly use the Kyuubi's power, and that's wrong.
But please show me the scan of Naruto utilizing the 8Bijuu's power without forming a connection with them first. The reason why I brought up the last scan of Naruto forming the KA was because it showed how a Jinchuriki works with his own Bijuu, compared to what he has to do to activate the other power in his body.
- Your argument is still flimsy. He simply isn't drawing upon the Bijuu power. It's passive for him just like Kurama's chakra even though the damned flood-gates are already open for him. Does that mean Kurama's chakra isn't there, or that he isn't benefiting from it? He is. He always is, even when the seal wasn't fully open.
He's the son of a woman who went through a colossal metamorphosis after eating the fruit. Hamura was born after it. What is your point, man? That he carries the traits of his mom who hoarded on the fruit to turn into ten tails? As in, he's the son of ten-tails and Shinju? Or that her chakra within them wasn't the whole point of their conflict? So, they had a TSB because of that direct connection, like Kaguya does because of the fruit? Wow.
The fact that they even had staffs literally sets my argument in stone:
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They were born after Kaguya ate the fruit and became the chakra monstrosity that she was:
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In other words, they carry the Bijuu chakra traits since their birth; her chakra was dispersed in them evenly. It's explicitly mentioned in the scan above. What the heck does that have anything to do with Naruto and his diluted chakra line? Nothing.
- Sorry, never claimed it, never implied it, nor does that have anything to do with TSBs or Senjutsu. The assimilation of chakra releases the Senjutsu. It's in the databook and it's in the manga and is shown quite plainly with Obito forming a TSB instantly as he pulled the Bijuu chunks out from Madara:
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It appeared, like literally, immediately he drew chunks of Bijuu power. When he has no Mezo inside him to even assimilate the chakra, but the TSB and Sage's Senjutsu happened regardless, which is why he survived the TSB collision. There is zero argument here. Zero.
- What connection? He already has chunks of their chakra within him; the chakra that grants him the power to communicate. He asks them to knead it for him. That doesn't mean the chakra isn't there. If it wasn't, then Sasuke wouldn't have commented that he was 'running out'. It means it was being used. A thing cannot be low on something if it isn't even being used.
You have no argument. You never had any. This is the same logic you pull for Ashura, when the scans and the databook explicitly state that he never got any chakra from the Sage. He never inherited any. But, whatever you say. It's always a tedious experience to debate on this.
Bring out some concrete evidence from the databook, or you won't get a reply. There is zero agreement here, when an objective observer (the other poster) is seeing things the logical way. Not to mention the above scans and databook statements bury this argument six feet under. But, feel free to believe whatever you want.
- Your argument is still flimsy. He simply isn't drawing upon the Bijuu power. It's passive for him just like Kurama's chakra even though the damned flood-gates are already open for him. Does that mean Kurama's chakra isn't there, or that he isn't benefiting from it? He is. He always is, even when the seal wasn't fully open.
He's the son of a woman who went through a colossal metamorphosis after eating the fruit. Hamura was born after it. What is your point, man? That he carries the traits of his mom who hoarded on the fruit to turn into ten tails? As in, he's the son of ten-tails and Shinju? Or that her chakra within them wasn't the whole point of their conflict? So, they had a TSB because of that direct connection, like Kaguya does because of the fruit? Wow.
The fact that they even had staffs literally sets my argument in stone:
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They were born after Kaguya ate the fruit and became the chakra monstrosity that she was:
I see some problems with your argument here Shelke, first being your claim that the TSB's are products of juubi/bijuu chakra when it's canonically just Rikudo chakra. further emphasized by the fact that both Hagoromo & Hamura had TSB Before Kaguya became the Juubi, and Toneri obtained TSB without juubi/bijuu chakra. Naruto's TSB are also a product of Hagoromo's Senjutsu he gifted him.
In other words, they carry the Bijuu chakra traits since their birth; her chakra was dispersed in them evenly. It's explicitly mentioned in the scan above. What the heck does that have anything to do with Naruto and his diluted chakra line? Nothing.
- Sorry, never claimed it, never implied it, nor does that have anything to do with TSBs or Senjutsu. The assimilation of chakra releases the Senjutsu. It's in the databook and it's in the manga and is shown quite plainly with Obito forming a TSB instantly as he pulled the Bijuu chunks out from Madara:
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It appeared, like literally, immediately he drew chunks of Bijuu power. When he has no Mezo inside him to even assimilate the chakra, but the TSB and Sage's Senjutsu happened regardless, which is why he survived the TSB collision. There is zero argument here. Zero.
- What connection? He already has chunks of their chakra within him; the chakra that grants him the power to communicate. He asks them to knead it for him. That doesn't mean the chakra isn't there. If it wasn't, then Sasuke wouldn't have commented that he was 'running out'. It means it was being used. A thing cannot be low on something if it isn't even being used.
You have no argument. You never had any. This is the same logic you pull for Ashura, when the scans and the databook explicitly state that he never got any chakra from the Sage. He never inherited any. But, whatever you say. It's always a tedious experience to debate on this.
Bring out some concrete evidence from the databook, or you won't get a reply. There is zero agreement here, when an objective observer (the other poster) is seeing things the logical way. Not to mention the above scans and databook statements bury this argument six feet under. But, feel free to believe whatever you want.
- Your argument is still flimsy. He simply isn't drawing upon the Bijuu power. It's passive for him just like Kurama's chakra even though the damned flood-gates are already open for him. Does that mean Kurama's chakra isn't there, or that he isn't benefiting from it? He is. He always is, even when the seal wasn't fully open.
He hasn't established as strong of a connection like he has with Kurama and that's evident with Naruto's own Bijuu RSM and his own Asura Avatar retaining characteristics mostly associated with Kurama. Hell, it's because of that link that Hagoromo made Kurama the Bijuu to manage the meetings between Naruto and the Bijuu in the first place.
It's possible that Kurama had a stronger link with Naruto due to being Kurama's host whereas the Bijuu have to use their chakras within Naruto to connect with him. It's because of that that Naruto can just grab Kurama's chakra willingly whereas he must make a mental connection with the other Bijuu to use their Chakras.
Edit: Obito also never received Rikudou Senjutsu considering Madara doesn't comment on Obito stealing any of Madara's Bijuu Chakra until after he enters Madara's subconscious and the Juubi was Madara's source of Rikudou Senjutsu. What Obito absorbed before entering his subconscious was simply Rikudou Chakra (IMO).
Not really because Bsm have red eyes in cloak or out he or she show a picture and naruto eyes are orange in that pic as a adult not red so dont think he was right
- Your argument is still flimsy. He simply isn't drawing upon the Bijuu power. It's passive for him just like Kurama's chakra even though the damned flood-gates are already open for him. Does that mean Kurama's chakra isn't there, or that he isn't benefiting from it? He is. He always is, even when the seal wasn't fully open.
He's the son of a woman who went through a colossal metamorphosis after eating the fruit. Hamura was born after it. What is your point, man? That he carries the traits of his mom who hoarded on the fruit to turn into ten tails? As in, he's the son of ten-tails and Shinju? Or that her chakra within them wasn't the whole point of their conflict? So, they had a TSB because of that direct connection, like Kaguya does because of the fruit? Wow.
The point is the simple fact that TSB are stabilized through SO6P Senjutsu, something they inherited from their mother. I don't really see how you can make a connection to the Bijuu chakra themselves, but don't misunderstand their connection to the Juubi. But your problem is directly correlated to the fact that you believe Naruto himself receives and stabilizes these powers from the Bijuu chakra he was shared with, unlike Madara/Obito, he received these powers from a different source.
The fact that they even had staffs literally sets my argument in stone:
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They were born after Kaguya ate the fruit and became the chakra monstrosity that she was:
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In other words, they carry the Six Path Senjutsu traits since their birth; her chakra was dispersed in them evenly. It's explicitly mentioned in the scan above. What the heck does that have anything to do with Naruto and his diluted chakra line? Nothing.
Kaguya combined with the Shinju later on life, after Hagoromo and Hamura were born. Dunno how you came to that conclusion despite bringing the scans here.
- Sorry, never claimed it, never implied it, nor does that have anything to do with TSBs or Senjutsu. The assimilation of chakra releases the Senjutsu. It's in the databook and it's in the manga and is shown quite plainly with Obito forming a TSB instantly as he pulled the Bijuu chunks out from Madara:
True, thankfully both the Manga and the DB explain it perfectly. Obito also received bits of Six Path Senjutsu from Madara, which is why he was capable of creating a single TSB.
It appeared, like literally, immediately he drew chunks of Bijuu power. When he has no Mezo inside him to even assimilate the chakra, but the TSB and Sage's Senjutsu happened regardless, which is why he survived the TSB collision. There is zero argument here. Zero.
- What connection? He already has chunks of their chakra within him; the chakra that grants him the power to communicate. He asks them to knead it for him. That doesn't mean the chakra isn't there. If it wasn't, then Sasuke wouldn't have commented that he was 'running out'. It means it was being used. A thing cannot be low on something if it isn't even being used.
Except the fact that your interpretation was wrong. Sasuke was pointing out the inferiority between the level of Bijuu chakra he had, compared to Naruto. Which is why he said, he didn't even have enough Bijuu chakra to create a Bijuudama. Unless your implying that Naruto creates a Bijuudama with the eight tailed beast :lol
You have no argument. You never had any. This is the same logic you pull for Ashura, when the scans and the databook explicitly state that he never got any chakra from the Sage. He never inherited any. But, whatever you say. It's always a tedious experience to debate on this.
Yeah, your argument is just as baseless with it comes to Asura too. Considering the fact that the Sage made it clear that Asura grew strong chakra through hard work and believing in others. But you know, it's quite funny how you can say that he used Bijuu's when Hagoromo himself had not split the Juubi from his body.
Tch said:
Bring out some concrete evidence from the databook, or you won't get a reply. There is zero agreement here, when an objective observer (the other poster) is seeing things the logical way. Not to mention the above scans and databook statements bury this argument six feet under. But, feel free to believe whatever you want.
I see some problems with your argument here Shelke, first being your claim that the TSB's are products of juubi/bijuu chakra when it's canonically just Rikudo chakra. further emphasized by the fact that both Hagoromo & Hamura had TSB Before Kaguya became the Juubi, and Toneri obtained TSB without juubi/bijuu chakra. Naruto's TSB are also a product of Hagoromo's Senjutsu he gifted him.
Obito stole 3 things from Madara chakra from the one tails & eight tails, along with Rikudo chakra.
Notice how
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. Next chapter in 665 is when he finally attempts stealing bijuu chakra from Madara.
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It wasn't due to the one tails eight tails chakra has nothing to do with it.
No, not really, that Obito scan really should end the argument. Already, repeatedly, made the point concerning the brothers' clear. It really isn't my fault if it isn't getting through. Not interested in TL.
- You do realize that Sage's Senjutsu pointer is literally added with "obtaining the Bijuu power" in DB?
Six Paths Sage Mode (六道仙人モード, Rikudō Sennin Mōdo), Sage Justu / Ninjutsuused by Naruto. Most of this page is too blurry to read, so I can only translate some of it.
The big header basically says it's a gift from the ancestor of shinobi that grants a supernatural mental state allowing for the complete, universal comprehension of all things.
From what I can make out of the main body of text, it says that this is a technique that allows the user to quickly grasp the nature of chakra with the skill of a well-studied, highly sensitive master. It also seems to have a bunch of philosophical stuff about the Sage of Six Paths which is hard to make out because I can only read about half of it.
Top caption says that the caster has an unconscious/automatic mastery of the Sage of Six Path's "ability to levitate" (浮遊する能力, fuyū suru nōryoku).
Second caption says, "Kicking a Truthseeker Orb! Surpassing Kurama Mode, his vast chakra lets him perform this risky stunt!"
Third caption says, "His reaction speed meets or exceeds that of Madara in his Ten Tails Jinchuriki Form. It's the height of sensory ability!"
The bottom left caption says, "To acquire the power of the ten tailed beasts is the same as possessing the power of the Sage of Six Paths, so it is accompanied by the same Truthseeker Orbs
To acquire the power of the ten tailed beasts is the same as possessing the power of the Sage of Six Paths, so it is accompanied by the same Truthseeker Orbs.
- What are you people arguing about, when you have no room to wiggle around? Every feat Madara, Obito and Naruto have shown is because of Bijuu chakra assimilation releasing Sage's Senjutsu. The above statement practically divides it up into segments for a layman. Way to slink below that.
- No, Sage's Chakra is a byproduct of the assimilation of Bijuu chakra. If you haven't gotten it by now, then I don't know what to say. Even a child can read that DB statement and grasp it easily.
- False. You don't need to go the subconscious to steal Bijuu chakra, when the bubbles rising up to the surface is Bijuu chakra to begin with. All you saw was Obito stealing Bijuu chunks from the subconsciousness. We have seen this with Naruto more than once:
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The cloaks also have the same bubbly appearance; it's Bijuu chakra:
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That doesn't mean he had not absorbed the Bijuu chakra:
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Nagato absorbed Hachibi's chakra just fine without going into Bee's subconscious:
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- Your argument is so reaching that it's shocking. The cloak IS fueled by ALL Bijuu chakra. You think people will have to go to Madara or Obito's subconscious to steal Chakra, when BOTH Madara and Obito gained and lost cloaks with and without all Bijuus?
Not mention that subconscious and physical world absorption are happening at the same place in regards to Spatial and Temporal bounds? I hope to God you are joking, when the manga was simply showing how WHAT was happening at the subconscious level. Kakashi was probably at a different place as well, when Itachi put him under genjutsu. No, sir, two completely different happenings.
- Obito immediately lost the cloak when the Bijuus were pulled out, when he still HAD the Mezo within him. Madara summoned it out later:
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- Yeah, let's see what Madara and Obito have to say immediately after gaining the Jubi's power (Obito after gaining control of the Jubi):
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- Looks like the manga really disagrees with you, as the assimilation of Bijuus immediately results in Sage of the Six paths power and the release of the Sage's Senjutsu.
- So, let's see, they gained SOP's power after getting all the Bijuu, like Naruto? Gained TSBs, like Naruto? Obito gained a TSB (proved to be directly linked to Sage's Senjutsu) via absorbing the Bijuu chakra, like Naruto (after Obito handed the chunks over to him)? Not to mention you actually stated that Obito selectively pulled out Sage's Senjutsu, from the cloak, and left Bijuu chakra intact, which is beyond laughable as the DB completely disagrees. It doesn't even entertain that thought. Both Obito and Madara disagree. The databook disagrees. The manga disagrees. The feats disagree.
Why am I even having this argument?
@NarutoX28
- What does that have anything to do with my argument?
- Naruto was given all Bijuu chunks by Obito. A manga fact. What kind of connection Obito and Madara had with the Bijuu? Only the assimilation is required to release the SOP, stated by both Obito and Madara.
- Right, so Obito selectively pulled out the Sage's Senjutsu from Madara's cloak (which only runs on Senjutsu, apparently) and didn't touch the Bijuu chakra ... at all? Yeah okay. Why go down the DB road at all that talks about Bijuu chakra being pivotal to TSB sprouts, because a bunch of Naruto fanboys disagree? Let's completely ignore that. Fictions, I say.
@Indra
- Your argument doesn't make a CROCK of sense. It's flimsy and it's baseless as hell. Sasuke said he was running out, which means he was using it. How can a chakra run out, if it isn't being used? What, is Naruto a leaking faucet? No argument as usual. In fact, argument for the sake of argument.
- Yeah, no. TSBs' accompany the Bijuu chakra. They are an added power-up, as the whole purpose of acquiring the Jubi is to match SOP. You probably haven't understood the manga at all then.
- She had eaten the fruit that gave her the chakra (the fruit being the sole chakra source in NV); the chakra that is the Bijuu chakra at its crux; the first chakra to be passed onto the generation. Their chakra is also NE based as Bijuu chakra, once assimilated, is nothing but a mass of NE. No idea what the fix means, when it's yet another absurd stab in the dark that goes against ALL the above posted scans.
- So, you agree with me that Obito pulled out the Bijuu chakra AND the Senjutsu that resulted in the TSBs? The Senjutsu which Madara acquired SOLELY by absorbing the Mezo in the above scan? You buried your own argument into the ground, as Senjutsu is released immediately after assmilating all Bijuu power. Stabbed by the tip of ones own sword.
- No, he wasn't. Between you and me, we both know who has a better grasp of syntax. If the DB statements that explicitly state that so and so come with Bijuu chakra, and that Ashura never inherited Sage's chakra at all, then smart people know that it means exactly that. Whatever power Ashura acquired, wasn't his father's chakra and I don't give two damns about it. Get over it already, man. Both the manga and the DB explicitly disagree with you.
Is that all? Looks like you have nothing on you. Try, just a litter harder, next time.
What are you people arguing about, when you have no room to wiggle around? Ever feat Madara, Obito and Naruto have shown is because of Bijuu chakra assimilation releasing Sage's Senjutsu. The above statement practically divides it up in segments.
I'm still surprised how you can bring the information yourself and still be wrong ... :lol
First of all, this is the Six Path Mode, which RSM Naruto uses:
DB4 said:
Six Paths Sage Mode (六道仙人モード, Rikudō Sennin Mōdo), Sage Justu / Ninjutsu used by Naruto. Most of this page is too blurry to read, so I can only translate some of it.
The big header basically says it's a gift from the ancestor of shinobi that grants a supernatural mental state allowing for the complete, universal comprehension of all things.
From what I can make out of the main body of text, it says that this is a technique that allows the user to quickly grasp the nature of chakra with the skill of a well-studied, highly sensitive master. It also seems to have a bunch of philosphical stuff about the Sage of Six Paths which is hard to make out because I can only read about half of it.
Top caption says that the caster has an unconcious/automatic mastery of the Sage of Six Path's "ability to levitate" (浮遊する能力, fuyū suru nōryoku).
Second caption says, "Kicking a Truthseeker Orb! Surpassing Kurama Mode, his vast chakra lets him perform this risky stunt!"
Third caption says, "His reaction speed meets or exceeds that of Madara in his Ten Tails Jinchuriki Form. It's the height of sensory ability!"
This is the Six Path Coffin Seal, which Madara and Obito used.
DB4 said:
Six Paths Ten Tails Coffin Seal (六道十尾柩印, Rikudō Jūbi Kyūin), Kekkei Genkai Ninjutsu used by Obito and Madara. Taking the ten bodies of the tailed beasts into oneself, becoming a jinchuriki and gaining their power. It goes on to say that it's difficult to control the tailed beasts and that this can cause the user to have a psychological collapse, and needs to either have a suitably strong force of will, either inherently or by finding one, in order to gain control. If they do that, they'll obtain the terrifying/astounding power of a "god that shapes the land."
The top caption says that when it seemed that Madara was making Obito use Rinne Rebirth, Obito was actually weaving the sings for the Six Paths Ten Tails Coffin Seal. The middle caption says that the caster condenses and absorbs the ten tailed beasts into himself, awakening ("blossoming") their original power (本来の力, primal power, essential power).
The bottom left caption says, "To acquire the power of the ten tailed beasts is the same as possessing the power of the Sage of Six Paths, so it is accompanied by the same Truthseeker Orbs.
To finish off this part, we already made the connection of SO6P Senjutsu, which is correlated to the SO6P power. Something that both Hagoromo and Hamura share, which is why they had TSB against the Juubi. Doesn't offer anything worthy when:
Naruto received the power from Hagoromo
Madara noted that Obito received the power from Sage Chakra.
And by your definition, it's already wrong because it says by acquiring the power of all ten tailed beasts, that it unlocks that power.. Something that Obito didn't even accomplish until he used the Seal, yet created a TSB alone from Sage power like we explained. This also doesn't change the fact that the DB4 explains the creation of the TSB:
DB4 said:
Truthseeker Orbs is listed as just a ninjutsu (not kekkei mora), used by Madara, Obito, and Naruto. It says that when an individual manifests (literally "blossoms" 開花) Six Paths Senjutsu, black orbs comprising the power of all five elements and yin-yang appear, forming a circle that floats behind them. They can manipulate each orb independantly. Each orb is about the size of a fist and hides within enough power to completely oblitrate a forest. With the power of Creation of All Things, put simply, the shape of the black orbs can be freely altered, and the many natures comprising them can be combined to manifest a variety of effects. It is a power that easily exceeds both kekkei genkai and kekkei tota.
- No, Sage's Chakra is a byproduct of the assimilation of Bijuu chakra. If you haven't gotten it by now, then I don't know what to say. Even a child can read that DB statement and grasp it easily.
It's said acquiring the Bijuu power is the same as acquiring the Sage power, meaning they are still two different concepts, but still retaining the same origin.
- False. You don't need to go the subconscious to steal Bijuu chakra, when the bubbles rising up to the surface is Bijuu chakra to begin with. All you saw was Obito stealing Bijuu chunks from the subconsciousness. We have seen this with Naruto more than once:
Your argument is so reaching that it's shocking. The cloak IS fueled by ALL Bijuu chakra. You think people will have to go to Madara or Obito's subconscious to steal Chakra, when BOTH Madara and Obito gained and lost cloaks with and without all Bijuus? Not mention that subconscious and physical world absorption are happening at different places? I hope to God you are joking, when the manga was simply showing how WHAT was happening at the subconscious level. Kakashi was probably at a different place as well, when Itachi put him under genjutsu. No, sir, two completely different happenings.
If you are talking about the Six Paths Coffin Seal, then that's the only argumentation you have. RSM? Not a chance. Especially when Naruto was given Sage Chakra from Hagoromo himself which from the DB statement, is the equivalent of having all of the Bijuu's power.
Meaning he wouldn't need even more of that power to fuel something he already has, which was stated a few times already.
The top caption says that when it seemed that Madara was making Obito use Rinne Rebirth, Obito was actually weaving the sings for the Six Paths Ten Tails Coffin Seal. The middle caption says that the caster condenses and absorbs the ten tailed beasts into himself, awakening ("blossoming") their original power (本来の力, primal power, essential power).
- Looks like the manga really disagrees with you, as the assimilation of Bijuus immedately results in Sage of the Six paths power and the release of the Sage's Senjutsu.
- So, let's see, they gained SOP's power after getting all the Bijuu, like Naruto? Gained TSBs, like Naruto? Obito gained a TSB (proved to be directly linked to Sage's Senjutsu) via absorbing the Bijuu chakra, like Naruto (after Obito handed the chunks over to him)? Not to mention you actually stated that Obito selectively pulled out Sage's Senjutsu, from the cloak, and left Bijuu chakra intact, which is beyond laughable. Both Obito and Madara disagree. The databook disagrees. The manga disagrees. The feats disagree.
Madara/Obito use SPCS, which explained, "The middle caption says that the caster condenses and absorbs the ten tailed beasts into himself, awakening ("blossoming") their original power (本来の力, primal power, essential power)."
I'm wondering if you realize why Madara/Obito weren't capable of utilizing the Tailed Beasts power, as in their KKG abilities, and why Naruto was:
Madara and Obito condense the 9 beats into themselves.
Naruto receives their chakra in proportions
Madara and Obito gained a full set of TSB once they used the Coffin Seal.
Naruto received the TSB after receiving Hagoromo's chakra, which is Sage Power.
The manga and Databook surely agree with one of this, for sure.
Your argument doesn't make a CROCK of sense. It's flimsy and it's baseless as hell. Sasuke said he was running out, which means he was using it. How can a chakra run out, if it isn't being used? What, is Naruto a leaking faucet?
Man this is silly. Sasuke explained that Naruto's Bijuu chakra wasn't even enough to beat him. I'm still waiting for a coherent reply as to why Sasuke would inform Naruto that his current supply isn't enough to stalemate Sasuke.
... Oh wait that's exactly what Sasuke did. After taking in that large amount of Bijuu chakra, he outclassed the small amount of Bijuu's that Naruto had in his body. Which is why Sasuke said in VIZ, "You only hold a little piece of each Bijuu's chakra ... You can't win against me now"
In comparison to SPCS, which literally absorbs the Bijuu's into their body, Naruto only took in small amounts of their chakra :lol
Yeah, no. TSB's accompany the Bijuu chakra. They are an added power-up, as the whole purpose of acquiring the Jubi is to match SOP. You probably haven't understood the manga at all then.
Yeah, Naruto unlocking TSB because he received Sage power from the source says all I need to know. I'm pretty sure everything said above supports that argument.
She had eaten the fruit that gave her the chakra; the chakra that is the Bijuu chakra; the first chakra to be passed on to the genertation. Their chakra is also NE based as Bijuu chakra, once assimilated, is nothing but a mass of NE. No idea what the fix means, when it's yet another absurd stab in the dark that goes against ALL the above posted scans.
No, he wasn't. Between you and me, we both know who has a better grasp of syntax. If the DB statements that explicitly state that so and so come with Bijuu chakra, and that Ashura never inherited Sage's chakra at all, then smart people know that it means exactly that. Whatever power Ashura acquired, wasn't his father's chakra and I don't give two damns about it. Get over it already, man. Both the manga and the DB explicitly disagree with you.
Yeah I'm starting to realize the difference between someone who can properly read the manga and then what you are reading :lol
> Hagoromo explains how Asura received his power
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> Hagoromo explains that after witnessing Asura's 'way' he decided to follow suit and do the same with the Tailed Beast, directly tarnishing any pivotal aspect of Asura using Bijuu power. Especially when the STORY flows in motion with Asura gaining his own power, and Hagoromo being inspired. :lol
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"By suffering hard and training hard, the chakra within his body bloomed and he gained the same power as his brother" -
Yeah and Indra uses Bijuu chakra too, huh? What's next?
